AVS Forum banner

39281 - 39300 of 59233 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,808 Posts
On a lighter note I watch the latest Star Wars last night using the outdated tech provided by Dolby, also called DSU :)
It sounded great and DSU did a good job again placing the sound where it belonged. Very immersive and it will be watched again this weekend.
I thought we were supposed to have fun with this hobby, not get so uptight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
245 Posts
DSU has me going through my entire blu-ray library.......... so far I love it. The only movie I found that sounded a bit low was Avengers: Age Of Ultron, almost like I had to turn up the volume to get a level out of my system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
589 Posts
DSU has me going through my entire blu-ray library.......... so far I love it. The only movie I found that sounded a bit low was Avengers: Age Of Ultron, almost like I had to turn up the volume to get a level out of my system.
Yeah this mix has been identified by problematic by multiple reviews. It's a source problem, not DSU or your system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,830 Posts
Actually, I was trying to help you with your question and make you understand that it really doesn't matter if you get DTS HD MA / Dolby TrueHD when you upmix, because that won't affect in no way to your audio perception and satisfaction. Let's put it that way - upmixers upgrade, don't downgrade. So what you upmix stays as a format/decoder/sound codec and upmixer just adds sound to the additional speakers in order to use the full potential of your system.

If you felt offended in any way that was not my intention at all.

I do not pretend to have any superior knowledge, nor does my post. All I know and trying to share is based on reading firstly user-manuals, and than comes the self-experience, reading tech literature and magazines, participating in forums. But most of my knowledge comes from the cycle testing-mistake-testing-mistake-testing-satisfaction. That's all. And that is how everyone should proceed with their own home theatres, as everybody has a totally different environment, equipment, speakers, placement, cables, obstacles, power supplies, furniture, perceptions, etc., which affect the sound in thousands of different ways.

Have a nice day, enjoy your HT with many movie hours with Atmos/DTS: X and DSU / N: X. Peace.:wink:

Regards,
Hristo

Well, if that was your intent then I apologize. It was tone of your post that got me, I guess.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,038 Posts
On a lighter note I watch the latest Star Wars last night using the outdated tech provided by Dolby, also called DSU :)
It sounded great and DSU did a good job again placing the sound where it belonged. Very immersive and it will be watched again this weekend.
I thought we were supposed to have fun with this hobby, not get so uptight.
For the most part, I believe "upmixers" enhance our listening experience - - especially with 7.1 encoded material.

I have an older Denon (x5200) - I tremendously enjoy DTS Neo X (not Neural X as with the x6200/x7200) since it does a great job with my front wides in a 9.1.2 configuration. Of course, the better the soundtrack, the better the upmix. Even with 5.1 material - - it sounds better upmixed compared to the "native" channel setting.

I find that DTS Neo X does a great job with two channel mixes, as well. Sometimes, you can get a real funky sound out of older two channel movies that makes you wonder where & why the sound is coming out like it does! But again, for the most part - - always an enhancement with an upmixer - IMHO. Having the center channel emphasized (DTS Neo X - Cinema Mode) helps with clear dialog on all sorts of audio - Bluray movies or cable TV. Of course, Atmos is a real killer - - when I can get it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
777 Posts
FWIW, I am running 7.1.4 Atmos with Top Front and Top Rear. I have set the default output for the earlier DTS files formats to be Dolby Surround so that DSU takes over the duties. It does quite a nice job of it.

However, I bought The Last Witchhunter (yeah, I know...) to get my hands on DTS:X test tones.

When I ran them, I found that the DTS front height mapped to my front main speakers. And, that the DTS:X rear height mapped to my rear surround speakers.

I even went back to my speaker configuration in setup and changed my speakers to Front High and Rear High, respectively. The results were the same.

So, my speculation is that either the test tones somehow bypass DSU or the Onkyo implementation of DTS:X does not handle the DTS:X heights correctly.

I thought that DTS:X was supposed to be speaker layout agnostic. If that is the case, then the DTS:X heights should map to the Atmos heights in one way or another. Am I missing something?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,227 Posts
I thought that DTS:X was supposed to be speaker layout agnostic. If that is the case, then the DTS:X heights should map to the Atmos heights in one way or another. Am I missing something?
Don't believe the marketing BS. What you describe seems to be the exact opposite problem as D+M's coding of DTS: X where anything outside of the Front/Rear Height overhead setting screws up the rendering of objects.

Edit: I just realized that the 1030 does not have DTS: X decoding at all. Never mind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
589 Posts
FWIW, I am running 7.1.4 Atmos with Top Front and Top Rear. I have set the default output for the earlier DTS files formats to be Dolby Surround so that DSU takes over the duties. It does quite a nice job of it.

However, I bought The Last Witchhunter (yeah, I know...) to get my hands on DTS:X test tones.

When I ran them, I found that the DTS front height mapped to my front main speakers. And, that the DTS:X rear height mapped to my rear surround speakers.

I even went back to my speaker configuration in setup and changed my speakers to Front High and Rear High, respectively. The results were the same.

So, my speculation is that either the test tones somehow bypass DSU or the Onkyo implementation of DTS:X does not handle the DTS:X heights correctly.

I thought that DTS:X was supposed to be speaker layout agnostic. If that is the case, then the DTS:X heights should map to the Atmos heights in one way or another. Am I missing something?
Well there is no DTS:X implementation from Onkyo yet, so what is happening is you are applying DSU to the core 7.1 track of the test tones. I have no idea how DTS:X handled those as it's not really relevant for them, the way you described it is that those sound are included in the core track in the main and rear.

Atmos/DSU don't read any of the meta data linked to DTS:X so you can't expect it to be working.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
I have tried and tried review that would tell me if purchasing the Klipsch RP-140SA was a good idea to purchase. I have seen reviews but none described if the actual sound is coming from the above. I bought a pair of RP140-SA in Mid February, and I could only faintly perceive some effect. The effect was so suttle that I had to constantly ask different people if they could hear the overhead effect. I used to make excuses saying that its probably so faint because the Atmos wasn't complete, and that we will be able to 'really' hear the difference when I got the rear Atmos speakers. This week I got the last 2 Atmos speakers to complete my 7.2.4 system. 1 day earlier I received a Ultra BD player.

I hooked up the system and put in a Mad Max Fury UBD. I was listened to 3 different scenes known for good Atmos sound. While the system sounded better, this could have been due to the Hi Res audio. I watched Spiderman on UBD and I was starting to really feel the height in the audio. I was watching the Lego Movie and there was a scene in the beginning when every is singing (for 5 hours!) and when the construction back hoe's are swinging to the beat a helicopter flies over head. I jumped out of my seat to grab my lady. I was like sit here and listen. "Did ya hear it, Did ya hear it?" When she confirmed that she heard it fly buy overheard, I was sweet joy! Today I found a brief moment on a disk where rain is coming from overhead. Its hard to localize the sound ONLY coming from the ceiling, but the rain was definitely coming down!
Klipsch RP-140SA Atmos enabled speakers does an Excellent of reflecting sound of the ceiling! It took 4 Klipsch Atmos speakers to see the difference, but its defintely there!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
777 Posts
Well there is no DTS:X implementation from Onkyo yet, so what is happening is you are applying DSU to the core 7.1 track of the test tones. I have no idea how DTS:X handled those as it's not really relevant for them, the way you described it is that those sound are included in the core track in the main and rear.

Atmos/DSU don't read any of the meta data linked to DTS:X so you can't expect it to be working.
Yeah, I know that there is no DTS:X implementation for the Onkyo TX-NR1030 and there is not likely to be.

But, I thought that DSU would at least handle DTS:X in the same way that it handles DTS-MA HD...
If you go to Oblivion, for instance, overhead sounds seem to come from overhead.
TBH I did not go back to Oblivion and isolate the height speakers so that I know for sure that is where
the sound is coming from.

Is DTS:X different enough that DSU handles it differently from DTS earlier formats. I had thought that I
would at least get heights to heights when using DSU...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
589 Posts
Yeah, I know that there is no DTS:X implementation for the Onkyo TX-NR1030 and there is not likely to be.

But, I thought that DSU would at least handle DTS:X in the same way that it handles DTS-MA HD...
If you go to Oblivion, for instance, overhead sounds seem to come from overhead.
TBH I did not go back to Oblivion and isolate the height speakers so that I know for sure that is where
the sound is coming from.

Is DTS:X different enough that DSU handles it differently from DTS earlier formats. I had thought that I
would at least get heights to heights when using DSU...
DTS:X tracks are seen by your Onkyo as DTS HD Master, so DSU analyzes the 7.1 channels and upmix that to 7.1.4. It's an upmixing algorithm, so it's not exact science.

The fact that it does not steer the test tracks to height is normal, they are not analyzed as "height material" by the upmixer.

But if you watch the movie with they DTS:X track you will hear action in the overheads. But of course not the same action as playing the track with a DTS:X receiver as DSU is algorithm based, irlt's educated guesswork to what goes in height.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dvdwilly3

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,856 Posts
Update... Sold my Datasat, Altitude in house and room two weeks from completed construction. The final configuration is: 11.6.8 (LCRs, Side Fronts, 2 sets Side Surrounds, Back Surrounds, Front Heights, Top Fronts, Top Middle, Top Rear, Six Seaton Submersives). I should be able to provide advice on any conceivable 7.1.4 system with any height configuration. I can set up the Altitude to run a number of 7.1.4 systems using any of the 8 heights (e.g. Top fronts and rears, Front Heigh and Top Rear, etc).


 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,664 Posts
Update... Sold my Datasat, Altitude in house and room two weeks from completed construction. The final configuration is: 11.6.8 (LCRs, Side Fronts, 2 sets Side Surrounds, Back Surrounds, Front Heights, Top Fronts, Top Middle, Top Rear, Six Seaton Submersives). I should be able to provide advice on any conceivable 7.1.4 system with any height configuration. I can set up the Altitude to run a number of 7.1.4 systems using any of the 8 heights (e.g. Top fronts and rears, Front Heigh and Top Rear, etc).

Impressive, Jeff! How big is your room, and how much separation is there between your L/R mains and the L/R fronts? I was thinking of doing either wides/fronts (at approximately 45 degrees) or a L/R center in the 20ish degree range in my room depending on how widely spread my mains wind up physically for the Atmos configuration compared to the recommended +/- 30 degrees (and whether I go with a longer 19x14 vs. a wider 14x19 room after we plan out the dedicated space in the next couple of months). This would primarily be for Atmos object passthrough, so the improvement is really about "nice to have" resolution IMO rather than something that's essential to do, so whether it's worth going to > 9 floor channels is judgment, even in Trinnov land.


Although with the Altitude's presets, it might possibly be useful to have a speaker array TBD for a specifically DSU or Neural:X (or Auromatic, in your case) oriented preset. That's more useful in your room with multiple rows of seats than in a room with a single row of three seats, though. Still, it's nice to have choices :) .

Also, are you using the same model of Questeds for the L/R fronts as for the two pairs of side surrounds?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,856 Posts
Impressive, Jeff! How big is your room, and how much separation is there between your L/R mains and the L/R fronts? I was thinking of doing either wides/fronts (at approximately 45 degrees) or a L/R center in the 20ish degree range in my room depending on how widely spread my mains wind up physically for the Atmos configuration compared to the recommended +/- 30 degrees (and whether I go with a longer 19x14 vs. a wider 14x19 room after we plan out the dedicated space in the next couple of months). This would primarily be for Atmos object passthrough, so the improvement is really about "nice to have" resolution IMO rather than something that's essential to do, so whether it's worth going to > 9 floor channels is judgment, even in Trinnov land.


Although with the Altitude's presets, it might possibly be useful to have a speaker array TBD for a specifically DSU or Neural:X (or Auromatic, in your case) oriented preset. That's more useful in your room with multiple rows of seats than in a room with a single row of three seats, though. Still, it's nice to have choices :) .

Also, are you using the same model of Questeds for the L/R fronts as for the two pairs of side surrounds?
Hi,

I don't recall the angle of the Wides... But 45 - 55 could be correct. The Side Fronts are equidistant from my L and R Fronts and Side Surrounds (~10').

My Room is 17 X 28 X 9.5.

My LCRs are a different model Quested... they are far larger and heavier and would not fit the columns. Would be overkill for such, too! I will be running the LCRs actively as well - using all 24 channels in the Trinnov (the 6 subs are spread out over 2 channels.

Things are moving ... albeit it slowly.

For my room, adding the extra set of Side Surrounds and the Front Wides was purely to fill in large gaps between speakers. I wanted to create a 'cone of sound' all around. For example, the space between my L and R Fronts and Side surrounds was ~ 15 ft. Adding the Side Fronts filled that space perfectly by putting a set right in between, cutting the space in half. My Side Surrounds always sat in columns just forward of my main seating (not an ideal position - want them just behind)... Adding the second set which is just behind the main seating row (2nd row), will give me a better effect.

These issues have always bothered me in my room and with the extra speaker count, I can address them. Moreover, the Questeds do not have the desirable, large dispersion characteristics with the high freq drivers. They are incredible sonically, clean and dynamic, but you pick your poison. So adding more speakers will help fill these dispersion gaps - though most all speakers have an orientation pointing towards the main listening position...

More to come...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
On a lighter note I watch the latest Star Wars last night using the outdated tech provided by Dolby, also called DSU :)
It sounded great and DSU did a good job again placing the sound where it belonged. Very immersive and it will be watched again this weekend.
I thought we were supposed to have fun with this hobby, not get so uptight.
Yeah, some of these guys think this is life or death brain surgery, or they have not a clue and are simply trying the old "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull sh-- ahem, puckee. I'm a 62 year old cancer survivor, and Vietnam Vet that understands what's important and what's not. I, we're just trying to keep up with the latest, it's just folks, helping other folks understand. If they're too ignorant, or aloof for that then they can just go suck an egg (look it up). Maybe the old phrase "take a pill" should be resurrected and a required preface to answers to these questions. Speaking of the new, have you read this article yet:

SEATTLE—With the holiday shopping season officially under way, millions of consumers proceeded to their nearest commercial centers this week in hopes of acquiring the latest, and therefore most desirable, personal device.
"The new device is an improvement over the old device, making it more attractive for purchase by all Americans," said Thomas Wakefield, a spokesperson for the large conglomerate that manufactures the new device. "The old device is no longer sufficient. Consumers should no longer have any use or longing for the old device."
Added Wakefield, "The new device will retail for $975."
Able to remain operational for longer periods of time and occupy a demonstrably smaller three-dimensional space, the new device is so advanced when compared to the old device that it makes the old device appear much older than it actually is. However, the new device is reportedly not so radically different as to cause confusion or unwanted anxiety among those familiar with the feel of the old device.
"Its higher price indicates to me that it is superior, and that not everyone will be able to afford it, which only makes me want to possess it more," said Tim Sturges, owner of the old device, which he obtained 18 months ago when it was still the new device. "I feel a strong urge to purchase the new device. Owning the new device will please me and improve my daily life."
"It's difficult to remember how I ever found enjoyment in my old device," Sturges continued. "It is no longer appealing to the eye."
In addition to aesthetic and technological enhancements, manufacturers claim the new device comes equipped with a wide range of desirable features, including fewer buttons for pressing down and holding; a new wire for connecting to larger, less-portable devices; and fewer device-related errors and frustrations.
The new device will also be available in blue.
"Not only will I be able to perform tasks faster than before, but my new device will also inform those around me that I am a successful individual who is up on the latest trends," said Rebecca Hodge, whose executive job allowed her to line up for several hours in the middle of the day in order to obtain the previously unavailable item. "Its attractiveness and considerable value are, by extension, my attractiveness and considerable value."
Consumer Robert Larson agreed.
"I'm going to take my new device wherever I go," said Larson, holding the expensive item directly in the eyeline of several reporters. "That way no one on the street, inside the elevator, or at my place of business will ever mistake me for the sort of individual who does not own the new device."
Added Larson, "The new device brings me satisfaction."
Despite the visible excitement among most consumers, some claimed to be exercising caution, choosing instead to sit back and wait for a newer version of the new device to be released before making a purchase.
"True, it appeals to my most basic insecurities, but this new device will ultimately be replaced by a newer device, rendering it completely undesirable and utterly repellent to my personal tastes," device-enthusiast Ryan Janosch said. "Also, I should start saving my money for the next latest device, which will replace the newer new device a couple months after that."
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,038 Posts
RE; Update... Sold my Datasat, Altitude in house and room two weeks from completed construction. The final configuration is: 11.6.8 (LCRs, Side Fronts, 2 sets Side Surrounds, Back Surrounds, Front Heights, Top Fronts, Top Middle, Top Rear, Six Seaton Submersives). I should be able to provide advice on any conceivable 7.1.4 system with any height configuration. I can set up the Altitude to run a number of 7.1.4 systems using any of the 8 heights (e.g. Top fronts and rears, Front Heigh and Top Rear, etc).

(Wonderful pics excluded)

Wow, what beautiful home theater. I would expect nothing but the best from someone who drinks $60 Clos Martinet Tinto at a bargain price of $60/bottle.

Just messin with ya - - as a Michigander who is living in Colorado can do.

Really - - absolutely beautiful setup from decor to functionality. I wanna party with you, Cowboy. How about some Bob Seger on the big screen with the sound system cranked up? :>)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
559 Posts
39281 - 39300 of 59233 Posts
Top