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No I was referring to making sure that your speakers post cal are indeed capable of playing at the same SPL based on the level set, with bass management and room EQ enabled, before we play actual content.

Meaning that if a mixer tends to, for example, have the top middles 3 db below, say, the top fronts, but the levels for the top middles were set by an Audyssey or other room EQ another -3 db below the top fronts when you test the speakers using pink noise and an SPL meter with bass management on (using whatever method you have to play pink noise with room EQ and bass management on), you’re actually not fully capturing how the soundfield is supposed to sound. At least as “reference”.

So I was agreeing with your point about speaker levels with Atmos. Make sense?
Not sure. Why would the mixer set one lot of speakers 3dB below the others? Post calibration all the speakers should read the same SPL. Most room EQ systems will set them pretty accurately IME.
 

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I am in the final stages of installing my 4 ceiling speakers. I realised after tapping with my finger the ceiling plaster board that it sends a fair but of noise through to the bedroom above.

I figured I can squeeze in some wool insulation into the cavity using the 200mm hole for the speakers. Maybe 2 layers. Are there any issues with sounds quality with packing quite a bit of insulation above the speakers? They're polk mc60's.

Was consider using the speaker box as a frame around the speaker and using some cotton sheeting around the speaker before putting the insulation on top of that. Don't want to muffle the sound....

I also found out that the walls have sound insulation in when I tired to push my yellow tongue down. Just bounced off the insulation 😞 not an easy job hiding and feeding wires.

Any suggestions appreciated.
I'd definitely see a doctor about the yellow tongue ;)

You won't get much sound attenuation no matter what you pack around the speakers TBH. The room above is always going to hear them.

If you get a decent set of wire fishing rods, you shouldn't have much trouble fishing the wires through the insulation in the walls. A bigger potential issue is if the builder put cross-braces between the uprights and you need to get the wire past those. There are loads of YouTube videos on wire fishing which should give you some ideas of the problems involved, along with some solutions.
 

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I did raise my levels on the atmos speakers, keep in mind this is my first time setting up a HT. and on top of that I went with 5.1.2 so I am not going to say how much level i increased as I will be frowned upon, but I tested the spectre scene on amazon prime, it is showing a PCM input signal and I did have in movie - multi+ dolby surround, and yes that opening scene helicopter swooshing left and right were very obvious. Any other content that you would recommend on netflix or amazon prime that I can test by using the dolby surround umpire or DTS rural:X, by the way which between the two should be used?
Most 'action' type movies will have a lot of content in the overheads when using the upmixers. Which you use is just personal preference as they both work slightly differently and you may prefer one to the other. I find that DSU is best overall but is less 'showy' than Neural:X. The latter is more aggressive than DSU and this is good for a quick demo but gets wearing for a whole movie, IME. YMMV.

I wonder what the implications would be for turning the levels up so high, it does sound alright for now.
Basically what I said in my earlier post: you might upset the 'balance' in the soundstage. But if it sounds good to you, then it is good. After prolonged listening you may find that the overheads are too prominent and you may feel the need to turn them down at that stage.
 

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Thanks guys, I hope my doodles are clear enough. Am I splitting hairs?
Nice drawings etc - thanks. TBH, I wouldn't overthink this. For starters, there's nothing you can do about the ceiling - it is what it is. Second, a foot of distance is about 1ms of delay, which is likely inaudible anyway. Third, your room EQ will automatically adjust for the distance and level differences anyway. Just put the speakers where you plan to do and they will work fine IMO. Keep an eye on the recommended angles from MLP and try to stay within them - it doesn't look like that is going to be a big problem from the drawings. I'm sure you have seen the recommended angles diagram before but in case not, here it is again:



All rooms have compromises but remember what Dolby say about it being hard to get Atmos not to work!
 

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Ok guys, at the risk of oversharing, I’m gonna bomb this thread with a pile of stuff. I’ve seen it repeated over and over that it’s harder to mess Atmos up than get it right. So...
Not sure how to ask my question but, here goes.
My Rsl C34e’s just showed up today! I’ve pored over as much literature as I can find, and had decided on my locations. Except one thing. My ceiling has a 10deg rise from left to right. My mains are 8’-6” apart, so I’m using that as my Atmos spacing to maintain the “square” over my head. The problem is due to the rise, the square turns into a trapezoid when viewed from above, effectively shortening the distance between the top right front/rear Atmos speakers. So question one is, in the attached picture, where do I choose for the right side Atmos speakers to maintain the geometry? 1,2,3, or somewhere along the “2”axis?


Second question is tied to the first.

In this picture, we’re looking at the back of the room, so the left side of the pic is the right side of the room(just worked out when I was doodling).

So, “C” is an imaginary ceiling height of 9’. This is derived from the height of the left side of my room. “E” is showing the 4.25’ distance from center to each of the Atmos locations, and illustrating the angle between the LP and speakers, on what would be a flat ceiling.

“D” is actually my ceiling. As you can see, 4.25’ from center shortens the angle to and places that speaker at location “A”. To maintain the correct geometry to the LP, the speaker should be in location “B”, at 5.25’ but this places it outside of the imaginary line above the right front.
So.... what should I do here? I have 12 can lights. So, do I have the speakers follow their “lines” and potentially mess up my experience, put them where they need to go and have them look random( don’t care too much), and have odd spacing with the lights. Waf is pretty high , and she doesn’t much care either way. From what I’ve read, it’s hard to get this wrong, BUT I only want to cut up my ceiling once.
I emailed Dolby, but they informed me that they don’t have any direct user support.
I will add pics of the room for reference. Pics or it didn’t happen, right? I can can doodle on the pics to show where I’ve picked as well.
Thanks guys, I hope my doodles are clear enough. Am I splitting hairs?
Oh yeah, 7.3.4
You may be overthinking it 🙂

Others can chime in if I'm wrong, but this is the way I see it. For the moment, forget that you have a sloped ceiling. And forget the trapezoid. From a top-down view, meaning you are actually above your ceiling looking down into your room, there is no notion of a sloped ceiling. You just have a simple two-dimensional View. So from the top down view, pick the Four Points where you want to mount your ceiling speakers.

I think it really is that simple. You just need to ensure that you are adhering to the Dolby specifications, as best you can. You're AVR will get the timing right because the distances will be slightly different to the listening position. But that is the job of your AVR to reconcile.

I think the bigger issue is based on the type of speaker mounting. Since you are going in-ceiling speakers, then the speakers on one side of the room will be pointing away from the listening position because of the slope... By 10 degrees according to your calculations.

But the 10° slope is not an issue at all IMO. Your speaker drivers are already angled. So I think all you have to do is rotate the ceiling speaker such that the drivers are pointing to the listening position. The 10° slope ceiling is not going to make any difference in your particular case I believe.

I hope that helps.

-T
 

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Most 'action' type movies will have a lot of content in the overheads when using the upmixers. Which you use is just personal preference as they both work slightly differently and you may prefer one to the other. I find that DSU is best overall but is less 'showy' than Neural:X. The latter is more aggressive than DSU and this is good for a quick demo but gets wearing for a whole movie, IME. YMMV.
Like you, I'v gone back and forth between Dolby Surround and DTS Neural:X to matrix native 5.1 audio to 7.2.4. Also like you, I have come to prefer Dolby Surround most of the time. I have found that it does a consistent job of producing reasonably convincing immersive effects from native 5.1 sources. As is always the case, how good it sounds is a function of how good the basic sound design was.
 

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Like you, I'v gone back and forth between Dolby Surround and DTS Neural:X to matrix native 5.1 audio to 7.2.4. Also like you, I have come to prefer Dolby Surround most of the time. I have found that it does a consistent job of producing reasonably convincing immersive effects from native 5.1 sources. As is always the case, how good it sounds is a function of how good the basic sound design was.
Absolutely. Neural:X is great for when you want to demo 'overhead' effects, but I find it just too aggressive for regular use. DSU seems to be 'natural' and constantly amazes me at how well it extracts and steers.
 

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Like you, I'v gone back and forth between Dolby Surround and DTS Neural:X to matrix native 5.1 audio to 7.2.4. Also like you, I have come to prefer Dolby Surround most of the time. I have found that it does a consistent job of producing reasonably convincing immersive effects from native 5.1 sources. As is always the case, how good it sounds is a function of how good the basic sound design was.
Absolutely. Neural:X is great for when you want to demo 'overhead' effects, but I find it just too aggressive for regular use. DSU seems to be 'natural' and constantly amazes me at how well it extracts and steers.
+1

I think it's a matter of personal taste and preference. I'm firmly in the DSU camp...for me..."natural" and "unobtrusive" are the perfect descriptors.
 

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+1

I think it's a matter of personal taste and preference. I'm firmly in the DSU camp...for me..."natural" and "unobtrusive" are the perfect descriptors.
Using Dolby Surround or Neural:X to matrix 5.1 to 7.2.4 has another benefit, I think. To my ears at least it not only provides some faux immersion to 5.1 sources, it makes the surround effects better too.
 

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Not sure. Why would the mixer set one lot of speakers 3dB below the others? Post calibration all the speakers should read the same SPL. Most room EQ systems will set them pretty accurately IME.
PM sent. I'll try to explain more privately.
 

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Using Dolby Surround or Neural:X to matrix 5.1 to 7.2.4 has another benefit, I think. To my ears at least it not only provides some faux immersion to 5.1 sources, it makes the surround effects better too.
Agreed...and regardless of preference, both upmixers serve to further our appreciation and enjoyment of 3D sound.
 

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Atmos pre rendering 7.4! !!!
Hi all
There is much talk in the denon 8500 forum about thor3 and star wars being mixed and pre rendering to only 7.1.4
If this is true and becomes the normal mix
we will never get passed 7.1.4 and the denon 8500 will not have a way tp use its 9.2.4 or 7.2.6
I hope people will make it known that we don't want Dolby Atmos Lite
 

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Nice drawings etc - thanks. TBH, I wouldn't overthink this. For starters, there's nothing you can do about the ceiling - it is what it is. Second, a foot of distance is about 1ms of delay, which is likely inaudible anyway. Third, your room EQ will automatically adjust for the distance and level differences anyway. Just put the speakers where you plan to do and they will work fine IMO. Keep an eye on the recommended angles from MLP and try to stay within them - it doesn't look like that is going to be a big problem from the drawings. I'm sure you have seen the recommended angles diagram before but in case not, here it is again:







All rooms have compromises but remember what Dolby say about it being hard to get Atmos not to work!


Thanks Keith! I do have a catalog of images, and have read the atmos white papers as well as the very in depth guide. I appreciate your time and input. I think my takeaway here is, my gut is right and I should proceed as planned. Then I can focus on important stuff. Like building my library!!! And enjoying it all.
Thanks again.
 

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You may be overthinking it 🙂

Others can chime in if I'm wrong, but this is the way I see it. For the moment, forget that you have a sloped ceiling. And forget the trapezoid. From a top-down view, meaning you are actually above your ceiling looking down into your room, there is no notion of a sloped ceiling. You just have a simple two-dimensional View. So from the top down view, pick the Four Points where you want to mount your ceiling speakers.

I think it really is that simple. You just need to ensure that you are adhering to the Dolby specifications, as best you can. You're AVR will get the timing right because the distances will be slightly different to the listening position. But that is the job of your AVR to reconcile.

I think the bigger issue is based on the type of speaker mounting. Since you are going in-ceiling speakers, then the speakers on one side of the room will be pointing away from the listening position because of the slope... By 10 degrees according to your calculations.

But the 10° slope is not an issue at all IMO. Your speaker drivers are already angled. So I think all you have to do is rotate the ceiling speaker such that the drivers are pointing to the listening position. The 10° slope ceiling is not going to make any difference in your particular case I believe.

I hope that helps.

-T


Thanks t-bone,
I appreciate the input. As I mentioned to Keith, it sounds like I’m going on the right direction already, and you guys have confirmed many of my thoughts. Agreed about speaker angle. When I spoke with Joe at Rsl , we both agreed that aiming them straight down would orient them basically flat. I may experiment, just because I’ll have to know. Lol.
 

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Atmos pre rendering 7.4! !!!
Hi all
There is much talk in the denon 8500 forum about thor3 and star wars being mixed and pre rendering to only 7.1.4
If this is true and becomes the normal mix
we will never get passed 7.1.4 and the denon 8500 will not have a way tp use its 9.2.4 or 7.2.6
I hope people will make it known that we don't want Dolby Atmos Lite
As one of the commenters on the Denon X8500 thread, let's take a deep breath for a minute.

So far, we're taking about a handful of films that are "suspect" as 7.1.4 only Atmos mixes, i.e. that won't scale further to the number of speakers you have as technology improves (or more people can afford a Trinnov Altitude :cool:). As near as we can tell, the vast majority of released BD and UHD films with Atmos make variable use of 7.1.4+wides, top middles, etc. according to the taste of the mixer, NOT a hard-wired 7.1.4 "print to physical channel" limit.

As I stated on the thread, The Last Jedi is just one movie that's apparently "printed" to 7.1.4. Thor, Guardians of the Galaxy 2, and Cars 3 have also been mentioned as not using top middles or wides at this point in time. Another movie, Wonder Woman, which appeared to be 7.1.4 only, has sporadically used, infrequent content in wides, but is essentially a "blink or you'll miss it" Atmos release beyond that 7.1.4.

I'd put the care that a mixer puts in how ambient effects, panning, and movement around the soundstage ahead of the worry about a limit that only a few people can detect consistently on a small number of discs. Likewise having a quality set of speakers that allow you to enjoy at least 7.1.4, with on-axis response aimed at MLP, before worrying incessantly about a "first world problem". At least until we have further idea of whether these are isolated cases from one or two studios or it's become a trend for a large number of films TBD.

More to the point is also the degree to which your movies are upmixed (which don't use wides currently anyway, except for Neural:X with the proper configuration within the 11 channel limit) and just what you like. I wouldn't let this issue stop you from buying the best 7.1.4 to 9.1.4/7.1.6 or better processor that meets your budget :).
 
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