AVS Forum banner

58801 - 58820 of 58973 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,003 Posts
Please forgive me as I've been out of this game for a while. Back in 2014/2015 I was on here daily but then got hit hard economically so I just lived with my setup and didn't worry about upgrades until recently. Thank goodness that the Atmos catalogue built up because that first year was rough!

I've been on the forums sporadically over the last 5 years, but I did get to meet Sanjay once and hung out with Stewart a few times.
No worries my man, just busting your chops a bit :)

Since I'm refreshing your memory, I will also remind you that one of those times you hung out with Stu, I was there too :D we saw "In the Heart of the Sea" together in theatrical Atmos.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sdrucker

·
Registered
Joined
·
619 Posts
The short answer is yes, but I would think suspending Infinity Cascade 3C's from the ceiling might be overly challenging because of their size, not that it can't be done. If you have them, then use them. If not, then there are simpler solutions to height ceiling speakers.
I built a couple wall mount supports with a bit of an angle for the front Heights. 4 each Infinity Cascade Model Three V’s for heights and a pair of NCM DIY Okara II's for back surrounds. (7.1.4 with 3 subs).

Edit: Went ahead and wall mounted the Right Rear Height Speaker and added some RS's.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,257 Posts
I built a couple wall mount supports with a bit of an angle for the front Heights. With 5 each Infinity Cascade Model Three V’s I only have enough speakers for a single back surround (6.1.4). Debating if I want to bother with wall mounting the right rear heights. Thanks.
If you have it, why not use it? Height speakers aren't exactly overtaxed in terms of volume, but they can make a big difference in creating a sound stage out of your room via Dolby Surround or Dolby Atmos or other audio matrixing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,228 Posts
No worries my man, just busting your chops a bit :)

Since I'm refreshing your memory, I will also remind you that one of those times you hung out with Stu, I was there too :D we saw "In the Heart of the Sea" together in theatrical Atmos.
I'm so sorry, I do remember you, but I don't recollect your name. If I recall you bought me a beer which I really appreciate! It was very nice to meet you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
Although our HT is a dedicated room, our MLP is too very close to the back wall. The screen and main speakers are right at 12.5' from our MLP. I recently installed 4 in-ceiling speakers for Atmos. Because of the ceiling joist locations, I was restricted to placing the L&R rear in-ceiling speakers less than a foot behind my MLP. The front in-ceiling pair is right at 6' forward of the rear pair. Both front and rear in-ceiling pairs are also fairly close to the left and right walls. It works great-The Atmos bubble is quite effective.
Thanks Steven! That seems fairly similar to my situation. Good to know that one in-ceiling pair halfway between the mains and the MLP and another directly over the MLP will still result in a satisfactory Atmos experience. I had asked earlier if a 5.1.4 setup with two overheads halfway back and the other two directly over MLP is better or worse than a 5.1.2 at the perfect Dolby-recommended overhead placement. It seems to me the 5.1.4 option is still preferable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,899 Posts
Sorry for the total newbie questions, but just want to be clear - Subject 1: The AV receiver one would need to suffice Dolby Atmos set ups.

Question 1:

Its as simple as count the speakers you want and that's the channels you need on your AVR ? Or is Atmos different and I can get away with less ?

For instance, lets say I want a 5.1.4 Dolby Atmos set up. Is there a 5.1 Receiver I buy that also has the .4 Atmos jacks added to plug into and I need to look for that particular Atmos enabled receiver ? Or do you consider the Atmos speakers independent "channels", and I buy any 9.1 AV Receiver period ? "Atmos enabled" in the receiver not needed as they are just "channels" ?

Subject 2: What digital protocol spits out Dolby Atmos coded signal ?

Can I go out my PC sound card optical and into the AVR optical and that will carry correct Atmos ? Or is it a HDMI thing only ?

Thanks in advance guys !
The the top speakers are included in the channel count so to do 5.1.4 you need a 9 channel AVR, 5.1.2 a 7 channel etc. Most of your higher end 9 channel AVR's w/preouts can process 11 channels and do 7.1.4 with an added stereo amp. HDMI is required to carry the audio correctly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: galonzo

·
Registered
Joined
·
266 Posts
The the top speakers are included in the channel count so to do 5.1.4 you need a 9 channel AVR, 5.1.2 a 7 channel etc. Most of your higher end 9 channel AVR's w/preouts can process 11 channels and do 7.1.4 with an added stereo amp. HDMI is required to carry the audio correctly.
Thanks so much for them answers rekbones. Clears up quite a bit for me. Helps a lot (as I now know, I am now on the lookout for a 9.1 AVR).
------------
Hey guys, I got one more rookie question on this subject.

To correctly hear Dolby Atmos, does the source audio material have needed to be mixed down/formatted in Dolby Atmos ? So in other words, this leads to the importance of the question - once I get my Atmos set up all going, do I need to look for movies and material specifically formatted for Dolby Atmos ?

If not (hopefully), then what format caters to Atmos "conversion" the best ? Normal Dolby x.x, DTS, Dolby Logic, etc..
Or do they all convert over equally and its just a great magical format of awesomeness ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,524 Posts
To correctly hear Dolby Atmos, does the source audio material have needed to be mixed down/formatted in Dolby Atmos ? So in other words, this leads to the importance of the question - once I get my Atmos set up all going, do I need to look for movies and material specifically formatted for Dolby Atmos ?
Movie soundtracks will essentially break into two categories:

1) Soundtracks natively mixed in immersive audio formats: Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, or (rarely) Auro-3D. These should take advantage of speakers on the ground as well as those above.

2) Soundtracks mixed with lower channel counts, from mono to 7.1. If played without upmixing, sound will only come from the ground speakers. If upmixed using Dolby Surround Upmixer, DTS Neural:X, or Auromatic, some sounds will be extracted from the ground level and moved to the height speakers (similar to the way Dolby ProLogic II can expand a stereo source to fill surround speakers). The three upmixers have different properties and ways of choosing which sounds to extract, so you should try them all and decide which you like best.

If not (hopefully), then what format caters to Atmos "conversion" the best ? Normal Dolby x.x, DTS, Dolby Logic, etc..
Or do they all convert over equally and its just a great magical format of awesomeness ?
Dolby Digital, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, DTS-HD Master Audio, etc. are just compression codecs. It makes no difference which compression codec the soundtrack was encoded with.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,818 Posts
I've been looking at the setup guides on the Dolby site. Not sure if you can tell by the pic, but there is some molding on the ceiling above the couch which is SLIGHTLY behind the MLP. I wonder if the back two speakers would fit in there. It may not be quite the angle specified in the setup guide, but it's the best I could do.

I guess this begs the question: would a 5.1.4 setup with two overheads halfway back and the other two directly over MLP be better or worse than a 5.1.2 at the perfect Dolby-recommended overhead placement?
How high is that ceiling? If you wouldn't find it too visually intrusive, and the ceiling is at least 8', rather than in-ceilings, you could mount small bookshelves/satellites to that molding. The one concern being that mounted vs. installed does bring the speaker a bit closer to you, increases the possibility of localization of the speaker. But it's an option. You can do that with the other pair too, of course.

Would a kinda right 5.1.4 be better than a "perfect" 5.1.2? Don't know! One other advantage to on-ceiling mounted speakers - you haven't made a big hole - and if it doesn't work, adjusting is easier, and you're patch9ing smaller holes. :) I prefer in-ceilings aesthetically, but that's a personal thing. ME? I'd be inclined to try the 5.1.4 - you can set as top front, and top rear - just see if it's convincing! There's some good demo material out there that you can use as a test. If that doesn't do the job for you, try top front/top middle configuration. Worst case, drop it down to the 5.1.2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
266 Posts
Movie soundtracks will essentially break into two categories:

1) Soundtracks natively mixed in immersive audio formats: Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, or (rarely) Auro-3D. These should take advantage of speakers on the ground as well as those above.
I imagine this also applies to Video games ? So ultimately to properly hear Atmos, as Atmos intended, it is indeed best for the source to have been mixed down in "Atmos".

2) Soundtracks mixed with lower channel counts, from mono to 7.1. If played without upmixing, sound will only come from the ground speakers. If upmixed using Dolby Surround Upmixer, DTS Neural:X, or Auromatic, some sounds will be extracted from the ground level and moved to the height speakers (similar to the way Dolby ProLogic II can expand a stereo source to fill surround speakers). The three upmixers have different properties and ways of choosing which sounds to extract, so you should try them all and decide which you like best.
Ahhh, ok, so now I am learning even more. Interesting. So Atmos is able to be "up-mixed" out of any audio mix format. Intriguing. But I am sure its kind of a "pseudo" version, not as good as a Atmos intended mix.

Ok, so biggest question of all then... Where do I get these up-mixers and how do I apply them ?


Dolby Digital, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, DTS-HD Master Audio, etc. are just compression codecs. It makes no difference which compression codec the soundtrack was encoded with.
Got it, thanks !

------------------
Side question applicable to part of #2 's answer - I notice you said "up to 7.1" - so does that mean any source above 7.1 is automatically "Atmos" anyway ? Or does that mean 9.1 and above just can't be up-mixed to Atmos ?

(I'm trying to learn all this because you know how certain sources have choices on what to play back the audio as, along with your receiver, and if I buy a Atmos set up, I'd like to have the knowledge to always choose the best choice when listening)

Thanks for all the info !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,524 Posts
I imagine this also applies to Video games ? So ultimately to properly hear Atmos, as Atmos intended, it is indeed best for the source to have been mixed down in "Atmos".
Yes.

Ahhh, ok, so now I am learning even more. Interesting. So Atmos is able to be "up-mixed" out of any audio mix format.
Note that "Atmos" refers specifically to soundtracks mixed and encoded in the Dolby Atmos format. An upmixed 5.1 soundtrack may take advantage of all of your speakers, but it's technically not Atmos. They are separate things.

Intriguing. But I am sure its kind of a "pseudo" version, not as good as a Atmos intended mix.
Generally, yes. However, there are an unfortunate number of Atmos sound mixes that fail to make much use of the overhead speakers and leave them silent most of the time. In those cases, an upmixed version of the movie's 5.1 soundtrack may be more pleasing.

Ok, so biggest question of all then... Where do I get these up-mixers and how do I apply them ?
Any A/V receiver that can decode Dolby Atmos will also come with the Dolby Surround Upmixer. It's the new default setting that replaces Pro Logic II. If the receiver can also do DTS:X, it will come with the Neural:X upmixer as well. Auro-3D is rarer and you basically only see that on select Denon/Marantz models and some boutique brands.

You turn on the upmixer the same way you would have turned on Pro Logic II previously. There should be a button on the remote that brings up a sound options menu.

I notice you said "up to 7.1" - so does that mean any source above 7.1 is automatically "Atmos" anyway ? Or does that mean 9.1 and above just can't be up-mixed to Atmos ?
The original Dolby Digital and DTS audio formats (the versions found on DVD) were limited a maximum of 6.1 channels. The Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution, and DTS-HD Master Audio formats on Blu-ray go to 7.1. To get more channels than that requires Atmos, DTS:X, or Auro-3D. (Again, Auro-3D is very rare. I don't think any discs encoded with it have been released in the United States.)

(I'm trying to learn all this because you know how certain sources have choices on what to play back the audio as, along with your receiver, and if I buy a Atmos set up, I'd like to have the knowledge to always choose the best choice when listening)
Understandable. This stuff can be confusing for a new user.

Most A/V receivers should allow you to play Atmos or DTS:X soundtracks in their native formats, while also applying an upmixer of your choice to legacy sound formats.

The choice of one upmixer over another is largely personal preference. DSU tends to be more subtle and mostly only pulls ambient sounds to the height channels. Neural:X is more aggressive with pulling sound effects to the heights, and does so at a louder volume, but the effect can be a little gimmicky at times when sounds that are supposed to be at ground level wind up coming from above your head.

The Auromatic upmixer simply duplicates everything from the ground level speakers into the height speakers with a little reverb added. Auro fans like this for music, but it may not be as effective for movies or games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: galonzo

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Ahhh, ok, so now I am learning even more. Interesting. So Atmos is able to be "up-mixed" out of any audio mix format. Intriguing. But I am sure its kind of a "pseudo" version, not as good as a Atmos intended mix.
Atmos is NOT able to be up-mixed. An Atmos mix has been done by "the artist" that have put some sounds in particular channels or room locations and/or move some sounds around the room. The Atmos decoder will decode that mix and will send the needed signals to each speaker to recreate the mix.

The Up-mixers just extract some sounds from the source signal (stereo or 5.1 the more usual), based on phase correlation, and will send that signals to the additional speakers the AVR has configured over the 2 or 5 from the original stereo or 5.1 signal. The result is sometimes convincing, i.e for stereo sophisticated mixes and perhaps better for surround 5.1 , but for other mixes you might like it less than the original sound without Upmixing. In any case, these upmixers cannot reproduce what a particular "artist" could have done by moving a particular sound through particular locations of the room.

In general, people (and I) are delighted with Dolby Surround Upmixer (DSU) or Neural:X, for films, and Auromatic for Music (either stereo or surround 5.1)

For example, It is amazing how these upmixers send the music from a Film or the "chorus voices" from a song to the surround speakers and/or the Height speakers, while keeping the main vocals and other "frontal" sounds in the front speakers. But all this depend on how the original "stereo" source was mixed.


Ok, so biggest question of all then... Where do I get these up-mixers and how do I apply them ?
The upmixers come with the AVR. You just select them (as audio mode settings), the same way you select other DSP sound settings such as "Game", "Cinema", "Sports", "Concert Hall", or whatever sounds modes that are implemented in the AVR.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
266 Posts
Note that "Atmos" refers specifically to soundtracks mixed and encoded in the Dolby Atmos format. An upmixed 5.1 soundtrack may take advantage of all of your speakers, but it's technically not Atmos. They are separate things.
Ahhh, got it 100% now. Makes total sense. Thanks for clarifying that specifically.

Generally, yes. However, there are an unfortunate number of Atmos sound mixes that fail to make much use of the overhead speakers and leave them silent most of the time. In those cases, an upmixed version of the movie's 5.1 soundtrack may be more pleasing.
Interesting, but that makes sense to me. Lots of things are like that. Sometimes the audio engineer just doesn't do what they could or should.


Any A/V receiver that can decode Dolby Atmos will also come with the Dolby Surround Upmixer. It's the new default setting that replaces Pro Logic II. If the receiver can also do DTS:X, it will come with the Neural:X upmixer as well. Auro-3D is rarer and you basically only see that on select Denon/Marantz models and some boutique brands.
Most A/V receivers should allow you to play Atmos or DTS:X soundtracks in their native formats, while also applying an upmixer of your choice to legacy sound formats.
The upmixers come with the AVR. You just select them (as audio mode settings), the same way you select other DSP sound settings such as "Game", "Cinema", "Sports", "Concert Hall", or whatever sounds modes that are implemented in the AVR.
Wow ! Thanks guys - this is awesome news and a total first ! lol The expected thing to hear in this field/industry/consumer market is the upmixer is a $1,500 separate unit you have to buy or your just totally lame ! haha.. Man, this is a breath of fresh air here.


The original Dolby Digital and DTS audio formats (the versions found on DVD) were limited a maximum of 6.1 channels. The Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution, and DTS-HD Master Audio formats on Blu-ray go to 7.1. To get more channels than that requires Atmos, DTS:X, or Auro-3D. (Again, Auro-3D is very rare. I don't think any discs encoded with it have been released in the United States.)
I swore I remember 9.1, 11.1,etc.. coming out before I heard of Atmos. Or I just heard of Atmos late. Like before they thought to put speakers on the ceiling, they were just totally surrounding you (sometimes 12 speakers +).
Atmos is NOT able to be up-mixed.

The Up-mixers just extract some sounds from the source signal (stereo or 5.1 the more usual), based on phase correlation, and will send that signals to the additional speakers the AVR has configured over the 2 or 5 from the original stereo or 5.1 signal.
Yea totally get that now (see above quotes/answers). Thanks for the detailed explanation.
It is amazing how these upmixers send the music from a Film or the "chorus voices" from a song to the surround speakers and/or the Height speakers, while keeping the main vocals and other "frontal" sounds in the front speakers. But all this depend on how the original "stereo" source was mixed.
Cool to know man. Can't wait to try this out.

I ask this about the upmixer so much because I know at first I will be using my 5.1.4 system like that via video games that don't come originally as "Atmos" format. So I'm curious if the upmixer will do a good job via helicopters or dragons or bullets/bombs/parachutes flying over head, etc..

So I really appreciate all these answers and info guys. It helped me a lot. I now know what I need, what to get and that I want it and most of all, what to expect. Thanks again !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,524 Posts
Interesting, but that makes sense to me. Lots of things are like that. Sometimes the audio engineer just doesn't do what they could or should.
A notorious example of this is the first live-action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie. That was an early Atmos soundtrack, and the mixers basically only use the height channels when they have a specific sound effect they want to come from overhead. For instance, there's a fight scene that takes place in a subway station, and one of the Turtles throws a bad guy up to the ceiling. The sound of the bad guy smashing into a light fixture comes from the height speakers, which is pretty cool. But those speakers then go silent for the rest of the scene and the majority of the movie. A better Atmos mix would keep those speakers active with atmospheric and ambient noises, reflected sounds, and other effects to create a consistent bubble of sound around the listener.

I swore I remember 9.1, 11.1,etc.. coming out before I heard of Atmos. Or I just heard of Atmos late. Like before they thought to put speakers on the ceiling, they were just totally surrounding you (sometimes 12 speakers +).
There were other upmixers prior to DSU and Neural:X that could expand a 5.1 or 7.1 soundtrack to additional speakers. DTS Neo:X and Audyssey DSX could derive Front Wide channels between the front mains and surrounds. Neo:X and Dolby Pro Logic IIz could also create two Front Height channels above the front mains. That's probably what you're thinking of.

I ask this about the upmixer so much because I know at first I will be using my 5.1.4 system like that via video games that don't come originally as "Atmos" format. So I'm curious if the upmixer will do a good job via helicopters or dragons or bullets/bombs/parachutes flying over head, etc..
Keep in mind that these upmixers do not know what's going on in the video content of the movie/game or know what specific sound effects are supposed to be. They derive extra speaker locations using phase correlation. The majority of audio that gets pushed to the height speakers are ambient sounds and reflections. If a specific sound effect was mixed in the ground channels, it's most likely to stay there. However, as I mentioned earlier, Neural:X is more aggressive with pushing some sound effects to the heights than DSU is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: galonzo

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,504 Posts
Any comparisons between soundtracks should be handled with the lossless disc versions. Technically speaking, Dolby Atmos via lossy encoding is not as good as the lossless version based on how objects and core+extension data are combined.



Almost like Dolby Vision via streaming (dynamic metadata only layer and 10 bit video) vs. the potential 12 bit FEL (dynamic metadata plus video enhancement file to recreate the 12 bit video data) version on disc.
Nobody said anything about sound quality beyond the bass level drop which is not lossless related seeing as the DTS 6.1 track I used to compare it to was also lossy (KODI makes it easy to select the lossy or lossless soundtrack at the push of a button) and it had the higher bass levels. Comparing lossless to lossy soundtracks, I've never encountered a single situation where the lossy version had more or less bass or imaged any differently whatsoever and that includes Dolby Atmos soundtracks (nearly every UHD disc I have has a lossy version on AppleTV and other sites these days so it's easy to compare them. Matching volume levels is essential, however as AppleTV 4K is typically 6dB below a typical disc level for some reason. That volume change has nothing to do with how it sounds once matched, however.

If you prefer to always use discs and/or lossless soundtracks, that's your option (we are transitioning to a streaming world, however so it may not be forever), but choosing to use lossless doesn't actually prove you can hear a difference between the two and it also matters what site is streaming it. Until recently Netflix, for example had very low streaming rates. Apple, however has had much higher rates for Atmos all along. I have not heard a difference between any Atmos track on disc and iTunes once level matched thus far so excuse me if I believe the two are very well comparable. I would, however be interested in hearing other opinions of comparisons between the Atmos version (disc based is fine) versus the Blu-Ray 6.1 disc.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the main point @Dan Hitchman was referring to about why comparing the lossy, streamed Atmos mix to the up-mixed 6.1 track is less-than-ideal, is due to the bed-level "remnants" of the extracted objects found in the lossy, streamed version, versus the completely extracted objects in the lossless Atmos track from the disk?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
How high is that ceiling? If you wouldn't find it too visually intrusive, and the ceiling is at least 8', rather than in-ceilings, you could mount small bookshelves/satellites to that molding. The one concern being that mounted vs. installed does bring the speaker a bit closer to you, increases the possibility of localization of the speaker. But it's an option. You can do that with the other pair too, of course.

Would a kinda right 5.1.4 be better than a "perfect" 5.1.2? Don't know! One other advantage to on-ceiling mounted speakers - you haven't made a big hole - and if it doesn't work, adjusting is easier, and you're patch9ing smaller holes. :) I prefer in-ceilings aesthetically, but that's a personal thing. ME? I'd be inclined to try the 5.1.4 - you can set as top front, and top rear - just see if it's convincing! There's some good demo material out there that you can use as a test. If that doesn't do the job for you, try top front/top middle configuration. Worst case, drop it down to the 5.1.2.
Thanks Jonas. My ceilings are 9'. Unfortunately mounted speakers won't cut it with the wife, so it's gotta be in-ceilings. I'll do four total, one pair halfway back, and the other pair as far back as possible, which will end up being more or less directly overhead, maybe a TINY bit behind the MLP. I'm wondering if a tiny bit of angling back on that rear pair would help (even though I do understand it's more about where the sound originates from than where it's angled towards).

Once they're installed, will Audyssey decide if that rear pair is "Top Middle" vs. "Top Rear", or is that a manual setting I would have to make on the Marantz 8805?

Thanks again! If anyone else has thoughts on having the rear-most pair directly overhead (as opposed to behind ) the MLP, I'd love to hear them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,107 Posts
Once they're installed, will Audyssey decide if that rear pair is "Top Middle" vs. "Top Rear", or is that a manual setting I would have to make on the Marantz 8805?
You will select manually the speaker position, before calibration. You should select Top Front + Top Rear, but you can also test other combinations, YMMV.

Thanks again! If anyone else has thoughts on having the rear-most pair directly overhead (as opposed to behind ) the MLP, I'd love to hear them.
Lots of those setups on this forum, including me. It's not ideal but works very well - our ears/brain system is not that sensitive to sounds coming from top+rear and we are not watching a holographic image with sounds that must match visual objects - so you are fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,215 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,727 Posts
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the main point @Dan Hitchman was referring to about why comparing the lossy, streamed Atmos mix to the up-mixed 6.1 track is less-than-ideal, is due to the bed-level "remnants" of the extracted objects found in the lossy, streamed version, versus the completely extracted objects in the lossless Atmos track from the disk?
If there's any 'remnant' at all, it's simply not going to be audible under normal circumstances with a good streaming bitrate (you'd literally have to unplug your overhead speakers and even then, short of demo material, how would you pick out what was a "remnant" and what was a partial mix to overhead instead of 100%?). As for direct comparisons, I've never heard a whit of a difference directly comparing iTunes based Atmos streaming versions to UHD discs head-to-head played in a normal fashion once levels were matched. It's not impossible there could be a difference, but I've been pleasantly surprised how good the iTunes Atmos titles have sounded. It's certainly not going to make mountains out of mole hills regardless of what you think of lossy (i.e. Things will still image the same places and at the same basic levels once the overall levels are matched).

It seems to me the person in question dislikes everything streaming and lossy in particular because it's called "lossy" (regardless of how many bits are thrown at it and whether there's an actual human audible difference or not). I've never seen or heard anything with my ears that would lead me to agree with what he's said about lossy soundtracks (or steered logic or Neural X for that matter). While my PSB speakers may not be the most expensive out there, they're pretty darn accurate for the price (I think you'll find @sdrucker back that much up at least and he has a Trinnov system so I'm sure he could have gone with any number of high-end brands if he had wanted to. Several of his speakers are higher end models, but I think you get more high end finished wooden cabinet bang for the buck than the slight sound refinements they provide. Some also offer lower bass extension, but when a subwoofer is going to do most of the lifting, I don't know how low you really need to go on the mains).

As for Top Gun, the Atmos version still sounds mostly like a Neural X version of the 6.1 mix to my ears, only with considerably less bass (I assume that was done to not blow up sound bar 'woofer boxes', but that seems to be a growing problem with all releases in general in recent years with Disney probably being the worst offender, but many studios doing noticeably less bass, particularly bass below 30Hz on many rereleases. I think the sound effects to dialog ratio may also be a bit lower, but that's minor compared to the sheer drop in bass impact. Beyond that, I was hoping for more impressive overhead moments with more separation than Neural X provides, but it sounded almost the same. In a way, it's good if you liked the original and previous 6.1 soundtrack and think Top Gun should sound more like 1985 than 2020, but if you're hoping for a Blade Runner Atmos "wow" remix, that's not it, IMO. OTOH, if you had been using DSU or a straight decode before, it will at least get the jets back up toward the ceiling instead of at ear level (the original soundtrack and 6.1 mix was meant to have surrounds higher on the walls than the current ear level speakers so playing them with DSU or straight on an Atmos-based system will put the jets at ear level instead of overhead. Neural X, however placed them near the ceiling with the previous mixes.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,504 Posts
@MagnumX , I plan to view the UHD Blu with BEQ applied, so I might as well apply the separate, DTS-HD MA BEQ to the 6.1 track as well, and do a little comparison myself (this should bring the bass about equal between the two, as only applying the BEQ to the Atmos track still surpasses the original 6.1 track's bass levels). I have the means to A/B both the disks as well as the BEQ configurations, and when I use BEQ, I don't use DEQ (which would affect the surround levels).

As you can see at the post at the link, there is definitely less bass in the Atmos track (dotted lines are original tracks), but it's easier to see on the "heatmap" comparisons (the DTS-HD graphs are in the spoiler tag, original tracks are on the right).
 
58801 - 58820 of 58973 Posts
Top