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So when I enable DLBC, it obviously completely eliminates the boost. So I can just drag the points back up to how the response is and should be close to that response?
Please follow the references in post 1 of the DL thread. This should help you getting familiar with the basic concepts.

Also read the PDF manual available via the HTP-1's UI. It provides a lot of helpful information.

And...
 
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I also have two subs in front and two subs in the rear. The rear subs are closer to the MLP. However, when using DLBC, all four subs are set to the same output level during the pre-calibration level-setting. This is equivalent to "level-matching", not gain-matching, and is the correct approach when using Dirac. Dirac sets the final sub output levels anyway. I don't recall if you have implemented the HTP-1 yet, or whether you are using DLBC. But my point is, sub implementation using DLBC is quite different from other approaches we may have used in the past, and is actually much easier. My bass output is quite strong and pleasing, not anemic like several other posters have reported. My guess is that users who are experiencing weak bass should re-visit how they are running the Dirac calibration.
Hey AJ....I see in your build thread (very nice by the way!) you have your 2 rear subs out of sight. How does DLBC handle them for calibration purposes?

I am planning an upgrade (damn I hate this hobby! NOT ;)) by adding a rear sub behind MLP and replacing surrounds with new speakers. And of course a new calibration!

The front subs are 550w each and the rear will be 500w. I assume DLBC will handle this OK without any intervention from me?
 

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Make sure to load the Dirac target curve for all speakers not just subs. And then after that make sure to drag the left curtain all the way to the left. Even if your target curve is set to boost to 5Hz or whatever the curtain will most likely not be set that low. For me it was set at 17Hz by default so changing that made my bass come back.
Thanks for the tip about the curtain....I will try this later today (too early here in Oz!)
 

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well, back in business! A combo of 10dB filter boost, 5dB per front sub trim increase, sliding the curtain back to 5hz and loudness on. I’ve got the feel back. The rear subs had to be dropped about 5dB to get it sounding right but have it sounding top notch!
I can’t use a 4th sub channel though. When I turn it on, it drops to .1 vs .4 not sure if that’s because of the DLBC and no calibrations on that channel, by design or a bug but just running a y off sub 1 and my opendrc to cut them off at 20hz for now. Works great.
 

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Hey AJ....I see in your build thread (very nice by the way!) you have your 2 rear subs out of sight. How does DLBC handle them for calibration purposes?

I am planning an upgrade (damn I hate this hobby! NOT ;)) by adding a rear sub behind MLP and replacing surrounds with new speakers. And of course a new calibration!

The front subs are 550w each and the rear will be 500w. I assume DLBC will handle this OK without any intervention from me?
Thank you for the kind words. Yes, I have two subs against the wall about four feet behind the MLP. While it is important to maintain line-of-sight to all speakers during a calibration, it is not important for subs. Sub signals are not directional, so even though my rear subs are blocked by my chair, the calibration is not adversely affected.

Dirac will handle your new sub without a problem. Just remember to adjust the output level of each sub to meet (or slightly exceed) the level of your lowest output speaker.
 

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Gain staging is different from level matching. First you make sure that your speaker/sub's amp is getting a hot enough (but not too hot) signal top properly drive it without introducing distortion or clipping. Dirac then levels the response out.

If using individual sub channels this becomes doubly important since Dirac tunes to the lowest output response. In essence it's easier (and most times preferred) to turn something down in the latter stages than turn something else up. If you turn a "loud" channel down too far, Dirac could potentially try to turn it back up to meet your curve which could introduce unwanted distortion or throw off your results. Think of it like trying to force a certain size hose to flow more than it's able, you're either going to rupture the hose, or ruin something else upstream.
I think you are indicating that the the HTP1 voltage output should be well matched for the sub amp input. For this the only control is the Maximum Output Voltage on the HTP1 and that seems sort of unique to this product. I have a pair of SVS SB3000. The control there is a volume which because it is called that I think it only affects the level.

When I've seen Internet articles on sub gain matching it appears to me that usually the idea is to make sure the subs are putting out the same output for a given input signal by measuring the sub out with a mic placed close to the driver (and taking pains to make the mic placement the same when doing the measurement).

Given the limits of what is controllable, I thought the way I said it was OK. Were you making sure I was clear on gain vs. level?

No. It's like having passive subs connected to outboard amps. They're all starting out with the same amp gain to subwoofer driver relationship. Dirac will adjust those levels as needed.
I'm concerned that I'm missing something, so if you can indulge me, I don't understand how what I said prompted a different response than what you gave AustinJerry. If preparing to do a Dirac configuration with DLBC on HTP1, why is it a mistake to use the sub volume or gain control (whatever it has) to set a reasonable starting level on the Dirac level page (set it to 5db above quietest speaker)?

I don't understand your passive sub reference. The HTP1 output signal is the same for all amps connected to it (or the same on each output channel). For Dirac configuration you have to have each speaker or sub play at least loud enough and not so much as to have output clipping. For speakers you would ideally only adjust the mic gain and/or volume control. For sub that doesn't align you have to adjust whatever control you have (volume or gain) to get each sub's level in the measurable range (the ideal being perhaps at least +5db above quietest speaker). After calibration, I do get it that Dirac will set trims that make final level adjustments.

If the matter is I was careless with language and possibly creating miss information, please do call me out on that. Everything is confusing enough as it is. I did think that Dirac calibration, DLBC, and multi sub channel preamps changes the game.
 

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** Man of Leisure **
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I'm concerned that I'm missing something, so if you can indulge me, I don't understand how what I said prompted a different response than what you gave AustinJerry. If preparing to do a Dirac configuration with DLBC on HTP1, why is it a mistake to use the sub volume or gain control (whatever it has) to set a reasonable starting level on the Dirac level page (set it to 5db above quietest speaker)?
IMO, this is precisely the correct approach. Final output levels for all speakers will be affected by the speaker with the lowest level. As long as the levels of all subs is higher than the lowest speaker, Dirac will optimize all output levels, and you will be pleased with the final result.
 

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IMO, this is precisely the correct approach. Final output levels for all speakers will be affected by the speaker with the lowest level. As long as the levels of all subs is higher than the lowest speaker, Dirac will optimize all output levels, and you will be pleased with the final result.
I intentionally added 5dB per sub doing one of the calibrations. Even though sub 1 was 3dB higher that sub 2, the calibration makes sub 1 0dB and the others down in relation to sub 1, So I wonder if it’s just acting like sub 1, 2 and 3 are all as one channel vs the rest of the speakers?
 

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IMO, this is precisely the correct approach. Final output levels for all speakers will be affected by the speaker with the lowest level. As long as the levels of all subs is higher than the lowest speaker, Dirac will optimize all output levels, and you will be pleased with the final result.
DL will optimize all output levels even when the sub is lower than the lowest speaker. It will waste headroom by doing so but it will work.

By the way, the whole gain matching vs. level matching discussion is pointless as it is unknown what the actual SPL requirements will be. Only after DL is run it will become clearer.
 

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If preparing to do a Dirac configuration with DLBC on HTP1, why is it a mistake to use the sub volume or gain control (whatever it has) to set a reasonable starting level on the Dirac level page (set it to 5db above quietest speaker)?
Who said that was a mistake? I was talking about a prior step of prepping the subwoofers. If each of your subs has a gain knob on the back, would you turn them to different settings for each of the subs? Or would you make sure that the gain knob was at the same setting on all the subs? It was just a suggestion to normalize all your subs. It's not a requirement: i.e., you can set those gain knobs so that they're not matched and compensate with Dirac.
 

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It makes a big difference for movies too. I'm on FW 1.7.1 and had to switch my settings on my HTPC input. If I pressed pause while watching an Atmos movie I would get static from all speakers when I hit play. Changing that setting resolved the issue.
Just did two tests.
1. JVC NX7 with Oppo and FW 1.8.3
On Auto there is a 2 second delay everytime I fast forward
On Biased I just got static after fast forward (Had to change to indicated to get sound back to normal)
On Indicated the delay on audio was a bit longer around 3 seconds every time I fast forwarded
2. JVC NX7 with Roku and FW 1.8.1
On Auto there is a 2 second delay everytime I fast forward
On Biased there is a 2 second delay everytime I fast forward
On Indicated there is a 2 second delay everytime I fast forward

So these settings made no difference on the ability to get the sound to play when the video starts again, always a delay.

Does anyone not have an audio delay where audio consistently starts 2+ seconds after the video starts when using a disc player or streaming content?
 

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I think you are indicating that the the HTP1 voltage output should be well matched for the sub amp input. For this the only control is the Maximum Output Voltage on the HTP1 and that seems sort of unique to this product. I have a pair of SVS SB3000. The control there is a volume which because it is called that I think it only affects the level.
In that case you are correct, the SB3000 has a fixed input sensitivity so there's no gain adjustment to be made, so disregard my earlier statement. Do like you said with running sweeps and measuring reference levels and you should be fine so long as you're not hearing any distortion.

When I've seen Internet articles on sub gain matching it appears to me that usually the idea is to make sure the subs are putting out the same output for a given input signal by measuring the sub out with a mic placed close to the driver (and taking pains to make the mic placement the same when doing the measurement).
Yes, you are correct in that what you described is gain matching. That is mostly used in cases where a sub array is being driven by a single subwoofer output channel. I was referring to gain staging which is a similar process to tuning the HTP-1 max voltage setting to match the input sensitivity of your amplifier. Basically it makes sure that the audio signal is being delivered at the most efficient level possible without sacrificing headroom, or introducing distortion (or both if done bad enough).

Given the limits of what is controllable, I thought the way I said it was OK. Were you making sure I was clear on gain vs. level?
See above, it simply came down to a matter of different terms, carry on :)
 

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Just did two tests.
1. JVC NX7 with Oppo and FW 1.8.3
On Auto there is a 2 second delay everytime I fast forward
On Biased I just got static after fast forward (Had to change to indicated to get sound back to normal)
On Indicated the delay on audio was a bit longer around 3 seconds every time I fast forwarded
2. JVC NX7 with Roku and FW 1.8.1
On Auto there is a 2 second delay everytime I fast forward
On Biased there is a 2 second delay everytime I fast forward
On Indicated there is a 2 second delay everytime I fast forward

So these settings made no difference on the ability to get the sound to play when the video starts again, always a delay.

Does anyone not have an audio delay where audio consistently starts 2+ seconds after the video starts when using a disc player or streaming content?
I have a nx5 and get the same delay as you do with my oppo 203 and roku. My ps5 and Xbox series x don’t seem to have it though.
 

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** Man of Leisure **
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DL will optimize all output levels even when the sub is lower than the lowest speaker. It will waste headroom by doing so but it will work.

By the way, the whole gain matching vs. level matching discussion is pointless as it is unknown what the actual SPL requirements will be. Only after DL is run it will become clearer.
This is what happens when Dirac senses that a sub has the lowest output. I could be misinterpreting your response, but clearly the example below is not an optimized result.

3077775
 

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Thanks for the tip about the curtain....I will try this later today (too early here in Oz!)
Just a minor detail to this. Know the limits of your subs as boosting all the way below 10Hz(or wherever you decide to move the curtain to) will need multiple sealed subs to give any sort of output. Doing REW measurements or critical listening tests you can find out how deep in the bass you should boost without noticeable distorsion at wanted SPL. For a less capable system it's better to cut it a bit earlier as the distorsion will be a lot lower and you can play louder. But if you have multiple sealed monsters then boost as deep as possible.

Even the best ported won't really do deeper then like 13-15Hz with any sort of output so for that I would not boost below 13-15Hz since that would just increase distorsion.
 

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Who said that was a mistake? I was talking about a prior step of prepping the subwoofers. If each of your subs has a gain knob on the back, would you turn them to different settings for each of the subs? Or would you make sure that the gain knob was at the same setting on all the subs? It was just a suggestion to normalize all your subs. It's not a requirement: i.e., you can set those gain knobs so that they're not matched and compensate with Dirac.
I apologize for miss characterizing your response.

My take is you want a good or acceptable alignment from pre out to sub in (gain) . It makes sense that multiple instances of same sub device would be configured the same (a good starting place). It is OK and necessary to adjust the subs output to get a pre-calibration level higher than quietest speaker.
 

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I bought a 4 channel amp with the 502's from him. My HTP-1 + Buckeye amp is the best sounding setup I've ever had.
Mannn don't make me start talking about my setup :). I'm holding off to spend some more time to come up with final conclusion. But I do agree 100%. What I can tell you about his amps is that it brings crazy clarity. I have had HTP-1 for 3 weeks and was using another amp. Switching to NCore amps brought another level of clarity. A lot of detail and also more dynamics.

The reason I didn't get 502 is because after the conversation with @BigCoolJesus, we both decided that it was an over kill because my L/C/R are JBL 4722N and they have 102dB sensitivity. But what I'd love to have is hypex NC400. Have a look at the rating that ASR gave it here. I hope @BigCoolJesus start making them as well. That's why I purchased 3 boxes instead of 2 for 16 channels. This will make it eaiser to replace 1 box with 4 channels with NC400 in future.
 

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This is what happens when Dirac senses that a sub has the lowest output. I could be misinterpreting your response, but clearly the example below is not an optimized result.

View attachment 3077775
Before DLBC, what delays did you have on Sub2, Sub3, Sub4? I'm assuming Sub1 didn't have any delay even before DLBC since seems like its the closest to MLP?
Also, did you post your impressions on DLBC vs Normal Dirac calibration? I think you had a very nice response to begin with even before Dirac had to do anything. So its very interesting to see if DLBC brought something else besides a pretty looking FR? Better crossover? Better bass sound?
 

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I would call it 95%. For me the missing audio when starting a track or movie is really annoying. That said there is nothing I have encountered that stopped me from watching or listening, and alot of great features which are easy to use.
+1 for the 2 secs of audio missing. It certainly can be fixed, can it? No problem here if watching a movie without interruption, but much bothersome when playing short demo videos or fast forwarding, searching for a specific scene.
 

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Before DLBC, what delays did you have on Sub2, Sub3, Sub4? I'm assuming Sub1 didn't have any delay even before DLBC since seems like its the closest to MLP?
Also, did you post your impressions on DLBC vs Normal Dirac calibration? I think you had a very nice response to begin with even before Dirac had to do anything. So its very interesting to see if DLBC brought something else besides a pretty looking FR? Better crossover? Better bass sound?
I posted my impressions of DLBC in this post: The official Dirac Live thread

Prior to DLBC, I was using a 2x4 to consolidate the four subs. I did not have any delays set in the 2x4. Sub time alignment did not improve my sub response curve, as documented in this case study: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3yy0uay0u...time alignment and polarity matching.pdf?dl=1
 
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