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@CFP, Is the problem only for turning the subs on? What about when playing music?
Hmm the subs are new so while the output level seems fine to me (if anything a bit too much) I don't have enough experience with them to know if the current level abnormal.
 

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Did you hear any rumour about that? I'm interested in... :)
Did you hear any rumour about that? I'm interested in... :)
I haven't, but with the release of the M33, I figured it would be relatively easy for NAD to update the M12. Unfortunately, there are few 2-channel preamps that have a high-pass filter.
 

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Hmm the subs are new so while the output level seems fine to me (if anything a bit too much) I don't have enough experience with them to know if the current level abnormal.
This is important. Perhaps keep them on all the time until NAD fixes this. Not ideal, I know...
 

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I haven't, but with the release of the M33, I figured it would be relatively easy for NAD to update the M12. Unfortunately, there are few 2-channel preamps that have a high-pass filter.
That's true. If people want proper bass management and high and low pass filtering, I think the Anthem STR preamp is the only device available in the M12 price bracket, and it also offers room correction, which the M12 doesn't. The M12 is great but it's long overdue an updated release (as is the C658).

I get the impression that NAD is focusing on the all-in-one market (M10 & M33) so presumably those of us with active speakers who just need a fully featured preamp are a small, non-priority market.
 

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That's true. If people want proper bass management and high and low pass filtering, I think the Anthem STR preamp is the only device available in the M12 price bracket, and it also offers room correction, which the M12 doesn't. The M12 is great but it's long overdue an updated release (as is the C658).

I get the impression that NAD is focusing on the all-in-one market (M10 & M33) so presumably those of us with active speakers who just need a fully featured preamp are a small, non-priority market.
The M33 has the exact same bugs as the C658...

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Cześć. Chciałem zapytać na forum, czy któryś z użytkowników Nad 658 wie, jak usunąć zapisany plik bezpośredni (z ustawieniami korekcji dźwięku) z pamięci urządzenia. Pozdrowienia
 

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Hello all, a quick question:

I have run Dirac Live (I measured my 2 speakers + sub separately) and have created the filters. I did all of this with a crossover at 80Hz. My question is, what happens if I change the crossover from its value at 80Hz? If I choose 120Hz, for example, would I mess my Dirac filter? Trying to understand the way that the C658 works.
Thank you in advance.-
 

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Hello all, a quick question:

I have run Dirac Live (I measured my 2 speakers + sub separately) and have created the filters. I did all of this with a crossover at 80Hz. My question is, what happens if I change the crossover from its value at 80Hz? If I choose 120Hz, for example, would I mess my Dirac filter? Trying to understand the way that the C658 works.
Thank you in advance.-
I used to set the XO in my C658 after Dirac configured and used REW to choose the best. Now I also have a multi-channel Dirac processor and set the XO within the Dirac project. Dirac implementations and features can vary a bit depending on underlying HW.

When Dirac measures each speaker or sub in the room it measures the speakers and subs full range. You can observe this during the measuring process as the graphic is a representation of the FR and output level of the device being measured. I say that based on using a Windows computer to run Dirac. A phone or tablet or IOS device might be different.

Unsure what you meant saying you measured speakers and sub separately, but Dirac filters will only apply to speakers and sub(s) present during the measuring. That is to make a filter that includes sub, you need to measure the speakers and sub in the same Dirac project used to generate the filter(s).
 

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I used to set the XO in my C658 after Dirac configured and used REW to choose the best. Now I also have a multi-channel Dirac processor and set the XO within the Dirac project. Dirac implementations and features can vary a bit depending on underlying HW.

When Dirac measures each speaker or sub in the room it measures the speakers and subs full range. You can observe this during the measuring process as the graphic is a representation of the FR and output level of the device being measured. I say that based on using a Windows computer to run Dirac. A phone or tablet or IOS device might be different.

Unsure what you meant saying you measured speakers and sub separately, but Dirac filters will only apply to speakers and sub(s) present during the measuring. That is to make a filter that includes sub, you need to measure the speakers and sub in the same Dirac project used to generate the filter(s).
Thanks @candor. It’s a good idea to use REW, will try that. Indeed Dirac measures the full frequency. I was just unsure how the bass management from NAD will work after that.

What I meant is that I measured the speakers and sub separately in Dirac, which is what the C658 allows to do, and hence filters will apply to them.

I think it would be valuable to have the option to set the crossover off as Dirac will correct for both the full frequencies of the sub and the speakers... next best alternative would be to set the curtains below the crossover frequency (sub) and above it (mains).

Best.-
 

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What I meant is that I measured the speakers and sub separately in Dirac, which is what the C658 allows to do, and hence filters will apply to them.

I think it would be valuable to have the option to set the crossover off as Dirac will correct for both the full frequencies of the sub and the speakers... next best alternative would be to set the curtains below the crossover frequency (sub) and above it (mains).
I am still confused about your saying you measured speakers and subs separately. Or why you want to do it. The only way to use Dirac and play audio thru both speakers and subs is if they are both measured when doing a Dirac project. If you want to play audio without the subs you can disable the sub in C658.

When doing the speakers/sub measurement in the Dirac project, Dirac measures each device full range. The frequency range between the curtains is what Dirac corrects for using separate filters for each device.

You are actually better off with the crossover than without it. Even if you have awesome full range speakers there is benefit in letting the subs handle bass (better suited for it, their placement can help bass, speaker amps don't have to work as hard). The negative of using sub is its harder to get the shared area of frequency range right. So, when deep bass isn't a factor, some folks prefer to use their speakers w/o the sub.

Correcting the sub response below the XO region and the speaker response above XO region is unlikely to produce good results. Look at it this way. The XO is meant to blend frequencies from low and high sources to make them appear as a single source. Having the source(s)'s frequency response smoothed or evened before will facilitate that purpose. If you don't filter the FR and it is uneven, then the XO blending will be affected. That said do realize that EQ in a stereo product is relatively new and plenty of 2ch listeners were happy w/o it. Your audio quest led you to get a C658, so you may as well try to get the most out of it.
 

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I am still confused about your saying you measured speakers and subs separately. Or why you want to do it. The only way to use Dirac and play audio thru both speakers and subs is if they are both measured when doing a Dirac project. If you want to play audio without the subs you can disable the sub in C658.

When doing the speakers/sub measurement in the Dirac project, Dirac measures each device full range. The frequency range between the curtains is what Dirac corrects for using separate filters for each device.

You are actually better off with the crossover than without it. Even if you have awesome full range speakers there is benefit in letting the subs handle bass (better suited for it, their placement can help bass, speaker amps don't have to work as hard). The negative of using sub is its harder to get the shared area of frequency range right. So, when deep bass isn't a factor, some folks prefer to use their speakers w/o the sub.

Correcting the sub response below the XO region and the speaker response above XO region is unlikely to produce good results. Look at it this way. The XO is meant to blend frequencies from low and high sources to make them appear as a single source. Having the source(s)'s frequency response smoothed or evened before will facilitate that purpose. If you don't filter the FR and it is uneven, then the XO blending will be affected. That said do realize that EQ in a stereo product is relatively new and plenty of 2ch listeners were happy w/o it. Your audio quest led you to get a C658, so you may as well try to get the most out of it.
Ok, let me try to clarify:

I do measure my speakers and subs within the same Dirac project, but they measure as Left, Right and Sub. So for each position I get 4 sweeps: Left, Right, Sub and Left again. The reason I call this out is that in the miniDSP products, you would not be able to see the sub, as it will be combined with the Left and Right channels (and in Dirac you will only see Left and Right, meaning three sweeps in each measuring position, i.e., Left, Right, Left). And yes, it will measure full frequency response and correct the pertinent frequencies.

I don’t want to turn my sub off; I need a sub as my mains are not great at lower frequencies. What I would like to try is to have the low frequencies from the mains playing together with the low frequencies from the subs, which may be beneficial in some cases. AFAIK, this is not possible with the C658, but would be with miniDSP products as their crossover implementation is super flexible.

I hope I explained myself, happy to clarify more when needed :)
 

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I don’t want to turn my sub off; I need a sub as my mains are not great at lower frequencies. What I would like to try is to have the low frequencies from the mains playing together with the low frequencies from the subs, which may be beneficial in some cases. AFAIK, this is not possible with the C658, but would be with miniDSP products as their crossover implementation is super flexible.
You’re over thinking this. Just let Dirac do it’s thing. There’s a good reason why BluOS manages the crossover when using the Sub outs. Also, you’re going to want DLBC if NAD ever makes it available to us. That way you can get the most SPL and proper integration of all (sub)bass capable speakers.
 

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You’re over thinking this. Just let Dirac do it’s thing. There’s a good reason why BluOS manages the crossover when using the Sub outs. Also, you’re going to want DLBC if NAD ever makes it available to us. That way you can get the most SPL and proper integration of all (sub)bass capable speakers.
That's correct. DLBC would be the ultimate tool...
 

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You’re over thinking this. Just let Dirac do it’s thing. There’s a good reason why BluOS manages the crossover when using the Sub outs. Also, you’re going to want DLBC if NAD ever makes it available to us. That way you can get the most SPL and proper integration of all (sub)bass capable speakers.
You can't use the dedicated subwoofer outputs on the C658 or the M33, because it introduces clipping distortion on hot tracks. NAD has confirmed this bug and admitted that it can't be fixed by FW update. See my previous post about this issue... Better connect the subwoofers to the pre outs via minidsp 2x4 HD and then run Dirac live calibration.

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You can't use the dedicated subwoofer outputs on the C658 or the M33, because it introduces clipping distortion on hot tracks. NAD has confirmed this bug and admitted that it can't be fixed by FW update. See my previous post about this issue... Better connect the subwoofers to the pre outs via minidsp 2x4 HD and then run Dirac live calibration.

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what tracks are you talking about? You have mentioned Rhye - Waste. At what point do you hear distortion? Any other examples are appreciated.
Thanks.-
 

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what tracks are you talking about? You have mentioned Rhye - Waste. At what point do you hear distortion? Any other examples are appreciated.
Thanks.-
BTW, the posted song in your Dropbox is terrible: it would clip in any system:

3135527
 

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You can't use the dedicated subwoofer outputs on the C658 or the M33, because it introduces clipping distortion on hot tracks. NAD has confirmed this bug and admitted that it can't be fixed by FW update. See my previous post about this issue... Better connect the subwoofers to the pre outs via minidsp 2x4 HD and then run Dirac live calibration.
I would imagine that a potential workaround to that issue would be to use volume leveling in Roon?
 
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