[JRod0802]



Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf4k /forum/post/18889285


It's impossible to notice 10 or 20ms of lag, isn't it?

Well, don't forget, it all adds up. There is input lag on the wireless controller to most of the current consoles of a few milliseconds. Then there's the lag of when you hit a button on the controller to when the frame associated with that press of the button is generated at the console, which can be anywhere from about 30 to about 100 milliseconds (it tends to be much less on a good PC though). Then there's the input lag of your TV (which are listed in this thread). They can all add up to being noticeable.


Then there's also the situation where you see an enemy in a game, you aim at him, you pull the trigger, and then you die without shooting. You sit there, dead, thinking "man, I swear I pulled the trigger before he shot me!" In a situation like that, you might notice even very low input lag.

 

[JukeBox360]

So is that why that happens? Input lag? Cause I hate that sh1t lol

 

[shaddix]



Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 /forum/post/18894732


So is that why that happens? Input lag? Cause I hate that sh1t lol

Mostly from internet lag, but input lag adds to it because it effectively slows your reaction times.


And it isn't really input lag, it's just video delay. The guy has already come around the corner you just haven't seen him yet. And when you do see him and pull the trigger, you DO shoot, it just takes a second for you to see yourself doing so.

 

[JukeBox360]



Quote:
Originally Posted by shaddix /forum/post/18894783


Mostly from internet lag, but input lag adds to it because it effectively slows your reaction times.


And it isn't really input lag, it's just video delay. The guy has already come around the corner you just haven't seen him yet. And when you do see him and pull the trigger, you DO shoot, it just takes a second for you to see yourself doing so.

And that right there is why input lag is so important to me.

 

[JRod0802]



Quote:
Originally Posted by shaddix /forum/post/18894783


Mostly from internet lag, but input lag adds to it because it effectively slows your reaction times.


And it isn't really input lag, it's just video delay. The guy has already come around the corner you just haven't seen him yet. And when you do see him and pull the trigger, you DO shoot, it just takes a second for you to see yourself doing so.

Well... in the scenario I mentioned, by the time you pull the trigger, you're already dead. You just haven't seen that frame yet. Had there been no input lag, you would have reacted while still alive.


Just a note on this, in my experience, 20ms isn't instantly noticeable. It's just that by the end of playing for about 2 hours, you notice that maybe 3 or 4 times over the course of the night, you could'a swore you shot that guy, but you died anyway. Then you begin to realize it was because of input lag.


Note that internet lag is usually a lot worse than input lag (and does look different... internet lag usually appears as your gun actually shooting, and then the other guy shoots you an instant later, but since he has a better connection to the host, his shot is registered first, making it so you die, while he remains unharmed), so these comments mostly apply to single player.

 

[AABBCCAA]

Finally got around to properly test my TV with SMTT:


Panasonic TX-P42S20E


Min lag: 18ms

Max lag: 30ms

Avg. lag: 23,02ms (out of 41 pictures)

 

[JukeBox360]

Nice looking numbers.

 

[Orta]

Thanks AABB, added to OP.

 

[jensend]



Quote:
Originally Posted by AABBCCAA /forum/post/18898104


Finally got around to properly test my TV with SMTT:


Panasonic TX-P42S20E


Min lag: 18ms

Max lag: 30ms

Avg. lag: 23,02ms (out of 41 pictures)

That's a good test. About 1 frame of variability is expected , because plasma displays refresh all at once, while CRTs and LCDs refresh top to bottom. Within a single refresh, the plasma will vary in lag by about 16ms.


That also means that ALL the tests should vary by ~16ms. I think any results that don't include a ~16ms range shouldn't be accepted for the first post of this thread. Laptop displays and flash timers are also unreliable.



The TX-P42S20E tested here has only one frame of lag beyond the absolute minimum that a plasma display can have.

 

[AABBCCAA]

Thanks, I've been wondering about this but couldn't find any solid information.

Do you think that 16ms should be deducted from the highest result, or is a CRT faster even though you don't see the full picture before the scan line reaches the bottom?

 

[JukeBox360]

CRT is always faster

 

[shaddix]

You don't see the full picture on the flat panel until the scan line on the CRT reaches the bottom. The image on the CRT is the signal, if it isn't showing on the CRT then the FP doesn't even have it yet.

 

[AABBCCAA]

I know that a CRT is technically faster, but you don’t see the scan line with the naked eye, you see a full image (with slight flickering). If I understand this correctly, the ~16ms variance is caused by the CRT because it needs 16,7 ms (at 60hz) to fully draw a frame, while the Plasma has to wait for the full frame. In both cases you see a full picture every 16,7ms, so I'm wondering how this affects actual perception.

 

[schmidter]

I can see that the LG PK550 have high input lag. So here is my question!... Will the nordic version PK550N have same input lag? The Nordic version isn't excactly the same tv, it has 2 THX modes included, so might not be the same or what?...


Thanks for help I can get, cheers!


EDIT: The G25 numbers, are they the same as the G20?

 

[jpnn80]

Here is a very good french website which allows you to compare TVs with test protocols and results in english. Check the choice Input lag in the list, and you'll see that tht VT20 has a worse average on 10 measures than its lag found in the 1st post of this thread. The only problem with their protocol is that they don't seem to test in "game mode" when possible.
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.p...&p2=9114&ph=16

 

[jensend]

The Digital Versus results are inaccurate. I don't see how there could be any more than one frame of variance if they did the test correctly.

 

[8059968]

Been looking all over the net for some Panny PNxxC680 tests but haven't come across anything.

 

[dapers]

I figure I should post the results of some testing I've done with the Panasonic TC-P42U2. I used the timer on lagom.nl's excellent site.


I don't have the pictures on my desktop at the moment, but I took approximately 40 pictures of the TV through HDMI with Game Mode on and with the "Computer" label. I didn't notice a difference in lag with the "Game" and "Computer" labels. I should also note that the TV doesn't have any computer inputs, so I had to use a DVI -> HDMI converter to connect it.


I did a "calibration" by measuring my CRT TV with my LCD monitor to get an average of a 1 frame (~16.667ms) delay on my LCD monitor. The Panny TV averaged around 4 frames (~66.667ms) of delay from my LCD monitor. Unfortunately, that's not good enough for the games I play.

I haven't tested the composite (hah!) or component inputs, due to picture quality and not having any component cables, respectively. However, I've noticed a slight improvement in lag on composite, but again without proper testing I can't confirm that this is actually the case. I won't be keeping this TV, but at least I can give some quick test results while I still have it.

 

[Orta]



Quote:
Originally Posted by dapers /forum/post/19129230


I figure I should post the results of some testing I've done with the Panasonic TC-P42U2. I used the timer on lagom.nl's excellent site.


I don't have the pictures on my desktop at the moment, but I took approximately 40 pictures of the TV through HDMI with Game Mode on and with the "Computer" label. I didn't notice a difference in lag with the "Game" and "Computer" labels. I should also note that the TV doesn't have any computer inputs, so I had to use a DVI -> HDMI converter to connect it.


I did a "calibration" by measuring my CRT TV with my LCD monitor to get an average of a 1 frame (~16.667ms) delay on my LCD monitor. The Panny TV averaged around 4 frames (~66.667ms) of delay from my LCD monitor. Unfortunately, that's not good enough for the games I play.

I haven't tested the composite (hah!) or component inputs, due to picture quality and not having any component cables, respectively. However, I've noticed a slight improvement in lag on composite, but again without proper testing I can't confirm that this is actually the case. I won't be keeping this TV, but at least I can give some quick test results while I still have it.

Did you remember to turn off Aero on your laptop dapers? If so, are you perhaps forcing Vsync in your GPU options or something? You're not passing through a receiver or anything? Those will all definitely mess your results. It seems pretty clear the low range Panasonic's are less than stellar, but you were seeing 66ms not including the laptop panel (so 80+ms all told)? That's quite a bit slower than even the C2.

 

[dapers]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta /forum/post/19129267


Did you remember to turn off Aero on your laptop dapers? If so, are you perhaps forcing Vsync in your GPU options or something? You're not passing through a receiver or anything? Those will all definitely mess your results. It seems pretty clear the low range Panasonic's are less than stellar, but you were seeing 66ms not including the laptop panel (so 80+ms all told)? That's quite a bit slower than even the C2.

I did turn off Aero, V-sync wasn't forced, and I don't have a receiver to connect with. I ran this on a desktop with a quad-core Phenom processor with a Radeon 4870. Today I ran the test again on my friend's laptop, again with Aero turned off and I got the same results.


In all due honesty, I was shocked and disappointed with the lag. It was pretty noticeable in FPS and platformers. I have Game Mode turned on, and the input labels don't seem to do anything besides change the brightness and color settings. I don't think I'm missing anything else to try and reduce the lag, unless there's some magic with different HDMI ports?