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HT is about trade offs. I work in this industry and where I work we mostly do projectors both commercial and residential. IMHO for picture quality nothing beats a good solid non-AT screen although the Screen Excellence NEO is VERY close. And it just kind of makes sense. When some of the projectors output is going through the screen and not being reflected you are losing some picture quality even if it is a small fraction.

That being said audio quality with a solid non-AT material suffers quite a bit. I have 2 projectors systems in my home (about to be 3) one AT and one non-AT. The non-AT screen I have tried putting the speakers above the screen, below the screen and at ear height with raising the screen higher. Now if I had was multiple rows I would go above the screen without a doubt so everybody has clear line of sight of speakers. However I only have one row in this room. When the speakers were at ear height the sound was great but I didn't like the screen that high as the top if was right at my ceiling. I settled on below the screen with speakers about 2 feet off the floor angled up.

Now, go into the other theater room with the AT screen and everything is just right. While if I put the two screens side by side the non-AT screen would win. But nobody every really sees that and are still blown away by the picture. IMHO the tradeoff for better sound is worth the very slight decrease in picture quality. The RS2000 is a great projectors and you are not going to be losing anything by using an AT screen.

As far as ALR screens. That could be necessary if you do not have good viewing conditions and dealing with ambient light. In that scenario taking a tradeoff on audio by not having your speakers behind the screen is most likely worth it. You can get an AT perforated screen that is ALR but they tend to be in a different price category than the Seymour screens you are considering.

Ps. For those that want to know what my third projector is going to be. I am replacing a flat screen with a short throw projector in my family room. I'm sure the short throw won't be as good as a nice new OLED but having 100+ inches might give a big wow factor. I am going to try it and see how I like it and what other people say about it.
For AT screens that have through-holes, you do lose picture information, but I'd argue that because the Enlightor-Neo and Center Stage UF materials don't have such holes you don't. To whatever degree they have translucence, then it's simply amplitude that's affected, just like a gain rating. The entire pixel is reflected off the picture, so no "quality" is lost. Amplitude or gain isn't necessarily "quality," as it can be a good thing or not depending on the configuration. For example, in Doug Blackburn's WSR review of the Sim2 Nero, he needed the lower gain of the Enlightor-Neo instead of his normal solid screen to put the image where it needed to be. In that case his quality went up with the AT screen.

But you know all about the holistic benefits to a AT configuration. :)

We have a microperforated version of the Matinee Wide that will be made available any day now. As much as I hate perf screens (and ALR for that matter), it's been performing well for us.

Cheers,
Chris
 

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HT is about trade offs. I work in this industry and where I work we mostly do projectors both commercial and residential. IMHO for picture quality nothing beats a good solid non-AT screen although the Screen Excellence NEO is VERY close. And it just kind of makes sense. When some of the projectors output is going through the screen and not being reflected you are losing some picture quality even if it is a small fraction.

That being said audio quality with a solid non-AT material suffers quite a bit. I have 2 projectors systems in my home (about to be 3) one AT and one non-AT. The non-AT screen I have tried putting the speakers above the screen, below the screen and at ear height with raising the screen higher. Now if I had was multiple rows I would go above the screen without a doubt so everybody has clear line of sight of speakers. However I only have one row in this room. When the speakers were at ear height the sound was great but I didn't like the screen that high as the top if was right at my ceiling. I settled on below the screen with speakers about 2 feet off the floor angled up.

Now, go into the other theater room with the AT screen and everything is just right. While if I put the two screens side by side the non-AT screen would win. But nobody every really sees that and are still blown away by the picture. IMHO the tradeoff for better sound is worth the very slight decrease in picture quality. The RS2000 is a great projectors and you are not going to be losing anything by using an AT screen.

As far as ALR screens. That could be necessary if you do not have good viewing conditions and dealing with ambient light. In that scenario taking a tradeoff on audio by not having your speakers behind the screen is most likely worth it. You can get an AT perforated screen that is ALR but they tend to be in a different price category than the Seymour screens you are considering.

Ps. For those that want to know what my third projector is going to be. I am replacing a flat screen with a short throw projector in my family room. I'm sure the short throw won't be as good as a nice new OLED but having 100+ inches might give a big wow factor. I am going to try it and see how I like it and what other people say about it.
Thanks Elle, I have Def Tech 2002 speakers that are bi-polar. The L&R speakers have a matched set of rear firing speakers. I wonder how those will sound behind a AT screen. SI has their 1.2 gain Slate microperf screen, but i bet it's not cheap. Have you heard or seen anything about Dreamscreen V7. Thanks
 

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Thanks Elle, I have Def Tech 2002 speakers that are bi-polar. The L&R speakers have a matched set of rear firing speakers. I wonder how those will sound behind a AT screen. SI has their 1.2 gain Slate microperf screen, but i bet it's not cheap. Have you heard or seen anything about Dreamscreen V7. Thanks
Set up your front soundstage to sound best as if there were no screen, and then once you place an Enlightor-Neo in front you'll have a tonally flat -1.5dB attenuation or if you get the Center Stage UF then it's -2.2dB. That's the holistic benefit when the audio and video aren't allergic to each other.

The Matinee Black microperf, like others, will trade off more audio for its ALR benefits.

Cheers,
Chris
 

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What's the difference between Enlightor-Neo and Center Stage UF? I can never find them on the same website. Is one a newer material, brighter, better sounding, better picture, more contrast, ambient light rejecting, etc.

How can I get a sample of XD, UF and Neo. Thanks for the help
 

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What's the difference between Enlightor-Neo and Center Stage UF? I can never find them on the same website. Is one a newer material, brighter, better sounding, better picture, more contrast, ambient light rejecting, etc.

How can I get a sample of XD, UF and Neo. Thanks for the help
Qualitatively I like to think of the Enlightor-Neo as being twice as fine as Center Stage UF. They have the same gain, since they're uncoated threads and the only way you increase gain with threads like that is detail-blurring layer stacking, which is never recommended. Thankfully I've gotten the DIY builders to stop that nonsense. The minimum seating distance for the Neo is zero, and the UF is about six feet. The acoustical attenuation for the Neo is an industry-leading 1.5dB and the UF is 2.2dB. You can request samples of any of the materials on our website.

Commercially, the Neo is available through Seymour-Screen Excellence dealers and installers. This "CEDIA" brand is where we put our most sophisticated product designs and materials. It's not intended to be DIY and scales to where with our largest masking system (ART), you'll get me in your room building it.

The Center Stage UF is available through the consumer-direct, DIY-friendly Seymour AV brand. You can add to cart, and attach it into a DIY frame with a staple gun, for example.

Cheers,
Chris
 

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For AT screens that have through-holes, you do lose picture information, but I'd argue that because the Enlightor-Neo and Center Stage UF materials don't have such holes you don't. To whatever degree they have translucence, then it's simply amplitude that's affected, just like a gain rating. The entire pixel is reflected off the picture, so no "quality" is lost. Amplitude or gain isn't necessarily "quality," as it can be a good thing or not depending on the configuration. For example, in Doug Blackburn's WSR review of the Sim2 Nero, he needed the lower gain of the Enlightor-Neo instead of his normal solid screen to put the image where it needed to be. In that case his quality went up with the AT screen.

But you know all about the holistic benefits to a AT configuration. :)

We have a microperforated version of the Matinee Wide that will be made available any day now. As much as I hate perf screens (and ALR for that matter), it's been performing well for us.

Cheers,
Chris
Chris,

Satisfied customer here for the last 10 years of enjoyment of my Enlightor 4K screen in my dedicated theater. We will be moving later this year to a home with a basement area that will become my theater room, but will not be ideal for projection as set up. Light colored walls, white ceiling, small windows for which I can at least get black-out shades. I was looking into ALR microperf screens and there are few options, so I'm delighted to hear that you'll be releasing a perf'd version of the Matinee Wide. Do you have any spec's recommendations regarding dB attenuation, gain and minimal viewing distances for this material? At this point I'm thinking 120" wide 2.35:1 and a seating distance of around 12 feet for our room. We could probably do 130" wide screen and move back a couple feet if needed.
 

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Sorry for the delay. It seems that AVS notifications are kind of inconsistent, and compounded with my natural cat-like distractions, it's sparse.

1) We don't do the tilted cut with retractables because we need the threads to be level for everything to hang flat. Only the smaller sizes tend to be an issue with non-tilted XD, but the UF was designed for those smaller screens and closer viewing distances.
2) Per the specs table on the screens page, when benchmarked against the lying weasels that are screen companies we'd rate it at 1.2. If only Stewart existed we wouldn't need a benchmarked score, and could then go with its unbenchmarked 1.0 rating.

Based on my more recent calibrations of NX5s, on your size XD screen you'd hit 23.8 FtL in HDR and 15.7 FtL in SDR, assuming you keep your bulb low. If you're a brightness junkie, there are several things I can do to calibrate it hotter. If you're a black level junkie, then those brightness values are what would be considered "best picture." I think those values are good. SDR guidelines are unchanged, and the average picture level in HDR is also the same, so that extra headroom is just for highlights.

I love 3D but honestly haven't done jack with it for quite a while. There are hotter presets that can be used and for 3D it opens up pretty well. Also the JVC glasses are more light efficient.

Cheers,
Chris
Thanks Chris for the info!

Is the 23.8 FL for hdr taking into account the throw distance that I mentioned (14.5-15 ft) for the projector.Does the distance matter?

I do incline more towards better black than brightness and hence was looking for the jvc nx5. However, I am little concerned as my room won’t be a perfect dark room. I just plan to paint the walls dark color (and no black velvet). I would target medium ambient light.

Do you think 23.8 FL (81.54 nits ) sufficient for hdr ? Crawling through some other channels I saw 100 nits was recommended for hdr. Do you think the DTM of jvc would help ?

In addition are there any products equivalent to the xd ( higher gain) available through Seymour screen excellence that might have better gain.


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Perusing various screen options, I came across a UK outfit with a desirable feature I've not seen before: in addition to adjustable masking, an additional mask for aesthetics / screen protection. Pictured here is a Scope screen with the mask in place and the side masking opened up to 2.39. I assume (though I'm not sure) that the art mask retracts top to bottom.

Would there be a way to do such a thing with the Seymour Proscenium system?
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What does this mean?

If you want to have lights on in the room, you may not benefit very much from the great black levels of the JVC since the ambient light will make the blacks grey.
Sorry if I was not clear.
I will not have lights on during projection.

I meant that getting those perfect black rooms with black velvet,etc is not possible for me.

Instead I will just paint the walls and ceiling dark colors( probably gray- yet to decide).


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Sorry if I was not clear.
I will not have lights on during projection.

I meant that getting those perfect black rooms with black velvet,etc is not possible for me.

Instead I will just paint the walls and ceiling dark colors( probably gray- yet to decide).


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Then a nice white screen will be ideal and you will get great performance from your projector! Cool.
 

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At this point I'm thinking 120" wide 2.35:1 and a seating distance of around 12 feet for our room. We could probably do 130" wide screen and move back a couple feet if needed.
Screen visual immersion is a personal preference ... this is a 10 foot / 120” wide / 130” diag scope screen.
First row 10’6” eyes to screen at center, love it
Second row 16” 6” eyes to screen still ok, but visual immersion is less

Which leads into where to put the R and L mains




Forming an acoustic equilateral triangle typically pushes then R and L mains outside the screen .. then you either aim them or over toe them to MLP per below





I’ve held big gtg’s and individual 1:1 with fellow HT enthusiasts at my home.

Quite a few moved their R and L mains from behind their AT screen to flanking it ..


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Screen visual immersion is a personal preference ... this is a 10 foot / 120” wide / 130” diag scope screen.
First row 10’6” eyes to screen at center, love it
Second row 16” 6” eyes to screen still ok, but visual immersion is less

Which leads into where to put the R and L mains




Forming an acoustic equilateral triangle typically pushes then R and L mains outside the screen .. then you either aim them or over toe them to MLP per below





I’ve held big gtg’s and individual 1:1 with fellow HT enthusiasts at my home.

Quite a few moved their R and L mains from behind their AT screen to flanking it ..


Sent from my iPhone 11Pro using Tapatalk
Thanks for the detailed reply!

Part of the deal for this room will be all in-wall and in-ceiling speakers, aiming for 5.1.4 based on the room layout which really isn’t conducive to rear bed level in-wall speakers unless it’s got a directed horn like the JBL synthesis SCL-7. I’m going to tape it all out once we’ve moved. For our current theater I had everything built out based on drawings during the construction phase.

I think my approach this time will be to place the MLP, then sort out the balance of ideal screen size and speaker placement for the LCR. We currently have our 120” wide scope screen at 8’ from the front row MLP and 14’ from the back row. Over time, we’ve agreed that 8’ is too close for us at 120”, but 14‘ is a bit too far. So I settled on 10-12’. We’ll only have one row of couch seating, and may end up doing a little bar height counter with stools behind it.

I’m guessing that the speaker placement (dictated in part by stud spacing) will subsequently give a couple of ideal screen sizes, one with speakers flanking the screen, one with a bigger screen covering all 3 speakers. I’m trying to limit my choices to wide dispersion, great off-axis speakers for this application. Not many of those that also maintain high sensitivity, 3-way design, etc. I’m also not sure how the L and R will interact with a perf’d screen vs. a woven screen and how far out I’d need to bump the screen if perf’d. Will be a fun project nonetheless.
 

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Chris,

Satisfied customer here for the last 10 years of enjoyment of my Enlightor 4K screen in my dedicated theater. We will be moving later this year to a home with a basement area that will become my theater room, but will not be ideal for projection as set up. Light colored walls, white ceiling, small windows for which I can at least get black-out shades. I was looking into ALR microperf screens and there are few options, so I'm delighted to hear that you'll be releasing a perf'd version of the Matinee Wide. Do you have any spec's recommendations regarding dB attenuation, gain and minimal viewing distances for this material? At this point I'm thinking 120" wide 2.35:1 and a seating distance of around 12 feet for our room. We could probably do 130" wide screen and move back a couple feet if needed.
Hi Matt -

Viewing distance of the new Matinee Wide MP is about 12', so I think you're good within your adjustment range. It is a pretty low gain of 0.8 so you'd want to have plenty of light power for it. Maybe for a scope screen consider an anamorphic lens, otherwise the zoom method might be spreading the image thin.

Average attenuation is looking like -3dB.

Cheers,
Chris
 

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Thanks Chris for the info!

Is the 23.8 FL for hdr taking into account the throw distance that I mentioned (14.5-15 ft) for the projector.Does the distance matter?

I do incline more towards better black than brightness and hence was looking for the jvc nx5. However, I am little concerned as my room won’t be a perfect dark room. I just plan to paint the walls dark color (and no black velvet). I would target medium ambient light.

Do you think 23.8 FL (81.54 nits ) sufficient for hdr ? Crawling through some other channels I saw 100 nits was recommended for hdr. Do you think the DTM of jvc would help ?

In addition are there any products equivalent to the xd ( higher gain) available through Seymour screen excellence that might have better gain.


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I wouldn't be concerned between 81 nits and the Dolby Cinema 100 nit goal. It's just a couple clicks of illumination, and just on specular highlights which are sometimes annoying anyway. The eye's response is non-linear, so it's not that big a deal. I think the goals are just directionally correct and like peak headroom for speakers, indicate good practice.

We may microperf the higher gain Matinee materials, but I hesitate for a lot of personal preference reasons.

Cheers,
Chris
 

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The Center Stage UF screen is listed as 1.0/0.8 and the Center Stage XD is listed as 1.2/1.0. What, exactly, do those numbers mean? What are the actual gains?
 

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The Center Stage UF screen is listed as 1.0/0.8 and the Center Stage XD is listed as 1.2/1.0. What, exactly, do those numbers mean? What are the actual gains?
When it comes to gain, many if not all manufacturers are advertising higher gain figures than the materials actually have.
The true gain value of the XD is 1.0 and 0.8 for the UF. To compare it to gain values published by competitors, the „benchmarked gain“ of 1.2 for the XD and 1.0 for the UF should be taken into account.
So Seymour AV wants to be honest about the gain of their materials but also does not want to look worse than the competition...
 

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Yes, that is a good test report.

In short, Seymour gives you a real gain number AND they give you a generous gain number that corresponds to how other manufacturers "lie" about their gain....so you can compare them with the numbers that other brands claim.
 

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Working on a screen for a small room. I'd love to go with the Premier to catch as much light as possible, but the I'd be giving up too much screen size. The Metro looks great, but I want a bit more frame to catch light. Obviously then, the Precision seems to be the sweet spot between all three, however, looking at the price point it is also the cheapest. If I'm choosing between the Metro and the Precision, do I get any performance benefit from the Metro... or is it just classier looking with the thinner velvet frame?
 
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