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I received my CB3 HD this Monday - Got a partial calibration finished due to shortage of time (some more work has to be done on Bass Management - wouldn't be until mid April).

Yet to gauge the reliability of the unit or if there are any glitches which if I observe my calibrator will be reporting to Theta - but so far so good.

Coming from a Theta lover you might say - this was expected - but the CB3HD is a outstanding processor. My room is sounding like it is has NEVER sounded before - the sound stage is way more refined and envelopment is now very precise. In a 9.4 system like mine the implementation of PL IIX is not a easy task and Theta has pulled this off extremely well.

The new codecs (which I have never heard before) takes the movie watching experience to a whole new level. We had to add a OPPO 93 and take out my DENON 3800 Blu Ray player - the Denon was not able to play the new codecs properly but the OPPO works like a charm. This is the Blu Ray player to get especially if you have a RS 232 based remote as you can monitor the audio codecs from the remote instead of the OSD - I will be replacing this with a oppo 95 or Theta compli very soon.

I was considering implementing two Gen VIII Ver 2 in my system but I am not sure if for movie watching I will get any more benefit than my Extreme DACS. This option is still on the cards.

I was skeptical about the improvement from the CB3 to the CB3 HD but this processor has blown me away.

I have been in manufacturing and launching products and this is a tough journey, especially in tough times to hang in there and keep spending but Theta did stay in the game - this is very good news for people who are interested in High End SSP's as the choices are very few. There is clearly a very good option available for those seeking a high SSP which can handle the new codecs and is top of the line - Great job Theta....

Ash
 

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Great news Ash. Thanks for your post. What was the turn around time? Mine is shipping out Monday. I'll be using a Gen VIII v2 and two Extremes. Can't wait to hear it!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma /forum/post/19992966


We had to add a OPPO 93 and take out my DENON 3800 Blu Ray player - the Denon was not able to play the new codecs properly but the OPPO works like a charm.

Could be a handshaking issue, since other Denon 3800 owners able to play the new codecs properly (whether bitstreaming out or decoding in-player).
Quote:
I will be replacing this with a oppo 95 or Theta compli very soon.

If you are using your Oppo 93 as a transport (digital outputs only), why pay twice as much for the BDP-95? Oppo themselves have said that the only difference is that the 95 is "optimized for the analog audio performance". This shouldn't make a difference to you if you're taking raw data off the disc and pouring it directly into your CBIIIHD. I don't see how you can improve on that.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma /forum/post/19992966


My room is sounding like it is has NEVER sounded before - the sound stage is way more refined and envelopment is now very precise. In a 9.4 system like mine the implementation of PL IIX is not a easy task and Theta has pulled this off extremely well.

I'm curious about your previous setup. Was it also 9.4? If so, what was the AV processor and how did it create 9.4? (I presume there are 4 woofers, driven in mono, yes?)


I understand the CB-IIIHD has additional outputs that copy existing ones. What is the current config you are using for the 9 channels?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler /forum/post/19994217


I understand the CB-IIIHD has additional outputs that copy existing ones.

Which ones? Do not think the DD PLLIIx stuff is just copies? Why would they need to just copy using DD PLLIIx? The subs can be configured differently for various channels. The sub channels all share LFE information.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG /forum/post/19991372


Having my CB3HD caliibrated tomorow by Adam Pelz

Oh no, not Il Professore !


Just Joking, You are in good hands.
Il Maestro
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler /forum/post/19994217


I'm curious about your previous setup. Was it also 9.4? If so, what was the AV processor and how did it create 9.4? (I presume there are 4 woofers, driven in mono, yes?)


I understand the CB-IIIHD has additional outputs that copy existing ones. What is the current config you are using for the 9 channels?

Hi Roger,


Not Ash, but I do calibrate his system.

Previous AV processor -- Theta CB III

Config-

LCR

Dual sides (2 L & 2 R)

Back L&R

4 subs- single sub out on Theta


Sides and Subs are split off after Theta for additional processing with DSP.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani /forum/post/19994077


Could be a handshaking issue, since other Denon 3800 owners able to play the new codecs properly (whether bitstreaming out or decoding in-player). -snip-----

Sanjay,

Latest firmware in 3800

When playing AIX TRUEHD 7.1 location tones, the disc "speaks" and says "If you can hear my voice...." you are hearing the Dolby Digital codec - which was verified by the Theta display. Besides we couldn't get LPCM out to work either - next day OppO 93, no hiccups.
 

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I received my Gen VIII series 1. Mint condition and I will upgrade it to series 2. Sure I will have to buy the modded Oppo to get some high rez digital into it. The digi out card of the Casablanca doing it just sounds to good to be true. I have decided that's a "dead duck." IF it does output 24/96 Theta will get their hands slapped so the end result will be the same, no high rez via the digital out card. Anyone with a current Casablanca can determine what the digital output is. If you input 24/96 now and it does not output, you would know for sure that it will not output 24/96 after the HDMI upgrade because the technical limitation of the card predates the issue. Someone should test.
 

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FWIW - Note on AIX test disc and Theta


With a Theta setup of LCR, "Surrounds", sides, and subs, all speakers crossover, NO Center Surround ( set to OFF) and +SPK set to either PL2xMV or OFF---yes it should not make a difference with single tones and it does not.


DD 5.1 id tones-

the surround (side) tone only energizes the side


DTS 5.1 id tones

the surround (side) tone energizes the side and back ("surround") speakers.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamin /forum/post/19994401


Sanjay,

Latest firmware in 3800

When playing AIX TRUEHD 7.1 location tones, the disc "speaks" and says "If you can hear my voice...." you are hearing the Dolby Digital codec - which was verified by the Theta display. Besides we couldn't get LPCM out to work either - next day OppO 93, no hiccups.

Understood. My only point was that other 3800 owners can get the lossless codecs to work (via bitstream or LPCM), so I wouldn't reflexively label it a player problem. BTW, good choice on the Oppo (been using their universal players for years). Since it can output everything (DVD, BD, SACD, DVD-A) as PCM, it can turn any pre-pro into a codec-proof device.
Quote:
DD 5.1 id tones-

the surround (side) tone only energizes the side


DTS 5.1 id tones

the surround (side) tone energizes the side and back ("surround") speakers.

Odd inconsistency. I'm assuming the above is with single-channel test tones and surround processing turned off. Did you try actual program material with PLIIx?
 

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Sanjay,

I did play Chapter 11 of Mission to Mars, DD 5.1 EX. When the rears (Surrounds) came on during the voice pan, the both came on in mono. No panning right back to both to left back. This was with +spk in the PL2xMV position.


Lack of time precluded additional investigation.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani /forum/post/19994517


Understood. My only point was that other 3800 owners can get the lossless codecs to work (via bitstream or LPCM), so I wouldn't reflexively label it a player problem. .....snip......

Agreed. After a few menu clicks, firmware verification, etc, it might not be a value proposition for me to follow further. Whereas I knew the OppO would drop in and go, which it did.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamin /forum/post/19994360


Hi Roger,


Not Ash, but I do calibrate his system.

Previous AV processor -- Theta CB III

Config-

LCR

Dual sides (2 L & 2 R)

Back L&R

4 subs- single sub out on Theta


Sides and Subs are split off after Theta for additional processing with DSP.

Ok, Ash went from CB3 to CB3HD. Got it. So I guess the same 9.4 config in both cases. And I assume PLIIx in both cases. So I'm just trying to figure out what is different about the HD that accounts for "the sound stage is way more refined and envelopment is now very precise." Is it the additional DSP processing (what kind of processing, BTW?) Is this when playing 5.1 sources or 2-ch sources? HD sources via HDMI?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamin /forum/post/19994429


FWIW - Note on AIX test disc and Theta


With a Theta setup of LCR, "Surrounds", sides, and subs, all speakers crossover, NO Center Surround ( set to OFF) and +SPK set to either PL2xMV or OFF---yes it should not make a difference with single tones and it does not.


DD 5.1 id tones-

the surround (side) tone only energizes the side


DTS 5.1 id tones

the surround (side) tone energizes the side and back ("surround") speakers.

This is what happens when some BD players do the DTS decoding. If you switch to bitstream, that should not happen, the DTS should play the same as PCM or Dolby codecs. When the player does the decoding in a 7.1 HDMI system, DTS has them duplicating the surrounds to all 4 outputs. Poses real problems for folks who want to do their own upmixing.


[ETA: I need to correct my statement. This DTS process of duplicating surrounds into the rears for 7.1 setups is only possible in the analog outputs of the player. So this is a non-issue for anyone connected via HDMI. Sorry for my confusion.]
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger /forum/post/19994290


Which ones?

+ Sides, I think they call it.

Quote:
Do not think the DD PLLIIx stuff is just copies?

No, PLIIx is not copying signals.

Quote:
Why would they need to just copy using DD PLLIIx?

PLIIx makes 7.1. In order to get 8 or 9 outputs, something else has to create the additional signals.
 

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Roger.

My comments on soundstage and envelopment are subjective - it is the 'proof is in the pudding' concept.

The only technical reason I could think as a lay man is since the codecs are lossless I can get the last few percent out if my setup and I can 'hear' the difference in the soundstage.

Same goes for envelopment as we could hear in a Kill Bill when uma visits the black mambas house there is a big fight but you can hear birds outside both chirping and even flapping.

Obviously, with 7.1 mixes more separation of data/ channels would result in more envelopment.

Ash.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler /forum/post/19994694


Ok, Ash went from CB3 to CB3HD. Got it. So I guess the same 9.4 config in both cases. And I assume PLIIx in both cases. So I'm just trying to figure out what is different about the HD that accounts for "the sound stage is way more refined and envelopment is now very precise." Is it the additional DSP processing (what kind of processing, BTW?) Is this when playing 5.1 sources or 2-ch sources? HD sources via HDMI?..snip..

Ash will have to speak more directly to this. As regards calibration, I did reset to a different Main Listening Position. Long story, but this time I did it anyway !
(ps - still got a couple stupids to fix in the cal - ran outta time). I thought I noticed some things, but sensory memory being what it is and it not being my daily system, it would be outta line for me to inject any subjective comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler /forum/post/19994694


....snip....This is what happens when the BD player does the DTS decoding. If you switch to bitstream, that should not happen, the DTS should play the same as PCM or Dolby codecs. When the player does the decoding in a 7.1 HDMI system, DTS has them duplicating the surrounds to all 4 outputs. Poses real problems for folks who want to do their own upmixing.

Uh, ok. Now here is a question, which could begs several more questions. Since the Theta display which indicates the type of incoming signal faithfully mimicked what I selected from the AIX disc, DD or DTS, how does the player down mixing get into the game?
 

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Quote:
When the player does the decoding in a 7.1 HDMI system, DTS has them duplicating the surrounds to all 4 outputs. Poses real problems for folks who want to do their own upmixing.

I recently asked Oppo about this re their analog outs:

Quote:
Can a 2.1 or 5.1 DVD/BD be expanded to 7.1 through the Oppo analog outs?

This was their reply:

Quote:
Unfortunately no. The player will not upmatrix the number of speakers used. It will only playback the files in the same or less number of channels.

I'd guess they would not be "upmatixing" their digital outs either.
 

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Roger,


my brain is broke --- I meant--->


The Theta display mimics the selected AIX track for each of the following:

True HD

Master Audio

DD

DTS

multichannel LPCM ( for both the 5.1 and 7.1 tests)

So how could player decoding get into the game since it sure seems as I am getting what is sent. Yes, I know, something in the chain could be lying-- my brain included
 
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