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@JoelxD


from many many lectures i have had....in every single PRO. review the MARANZ 6014 and DENON X3600 always bested the yamahas 1080/2080 in music, voices, and subwoofer...plus prices are much lower.

i have not encountered a single person on any forum that told me othewise (aside from a couple thta said they are as good as each other).


the only advantage yamaha HAS it seems...is still RELIABILITY and runs much cooler than the other models...
hope this helps
Wow, interesting. Thanks for the honest answer there. What about Home Theater sound though ? As I will most likely barely listen to music on the thing. But, being I am actually professionally in the music industry (song writer, producer, engineer) with a professional recording studio here on my property, from time to time I would want the ability to ref some of my music on it, and NOT in Atmos, just good old Stereo.

My gaming will mostly use the Upmixer for Atmos, so I'd like the best Upmixers and quality of such for a best experience.

Funny I rarely hear speak of "tone" here, and to me thats the main thing I seek when buying my pro audio gear for production or engineering. Few people know this (in this world of feature rich yet sterol designing) is: Usually the design of the power supply and DA Converters and how those two things interact with the analog circuitry is the MAIN and biggest factors in how ANY unit will deliver its signature character/tone. And the loss of that art of concentration in the design is why most new audio gear SUCKS tone wise compared to the old stuff.

And no matter where I look, other than the converters, I see nothing about the power supply design nor analog circuitry talks of these 3 units I'd like to compare. Everything is discussed about all these features and stuff that honest most likely take AWAY from a honest tone. lol I'd like to know about the guts and compare. Where is that info ? Why don't people talk about that more, and not Helos, Selos, Sirius and Darius lol

I will stand behind Yamaha at least has a better looking chassis design. Them lame looking Circles in the middle of a sterol looking box is just heartbreaking to see what has become of AVR's in the recent years. How do you even navigate around the thing ? Wheres the visual "WOW Factor" when your friend walks in the room ? Gone now... days of long ago, swept away, just a shell of their former selves.
 

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Hey guys, so I have decided to get a Yamaha A2080 after my long debate between Marantz, Denon or Yamaha of same caliber.

But before I purchase, I wanted to clarify some things. Whats the deal with something called "Presence Speakers" on the back and not "Height" Chanels ? Same thing ? Or ? I'm looking to do 5.1.4 Atmos and don't want any restrictions.

Next - about the Pops. Seems very frustrating. Now to know I need to hurry up and do just the right thing for hours/weeks/months to see if my unit is faulty is definitely discouraging. I don't have much time to do stuff like that, and from what I know I don't even have any Atmos material to test with immediately. Unit will mainly be used with PC for gaming in a gaming room.

Please advise, maybe the Marantz SR6014 is a better choice for me ? Funny, my final deciding factor was looks, as everything else seemed so even between the two. lol So my decision was not based on anything other than that.

For me, Marantz used to definitely be known for better tone, higher quality components, etc.. but I believe that ship sailed in the late 90's once manufacturing went to Japan. BUT Japan is still better than China, like, light years better - soooooo ??? What to do ?
I for one would say that either of those units you're looking at you'll get, you'll have something that you'll enjoy and happily use for years.

In what regards the differences amongst those models, probably just a very deep comparison and ESPECIALLY a first hand audition with all of them in same environment (speakers, room, material) will bring the differences (or, maybe the likeness) in front. From what I've read before deciding for my first Aventage several years ago, while I've never experienced any of those models, I retained that from the most well known brands, the Yamaha sounds the most "musically" if you will to say so, and since I was starting with mostly music listening, and second place movies and TV series (shows), my choice was quite clear. Also from what I've read (but not experienced myself), Marantz is a little bit "metallic" sounding, but Denon is quite close to Yamaha for "musicality". Yet again, for mostly gaming, maybe something else than Yamaha might be best, unless you'll not end up as me, starting with music listening at about 90% and movies ~10% of the things done with the AVR, ending up with them exactly inverse, 95-98% movies and series/shows, and just 5-2% music listening; so you might think on the long term, for about 3-5 years for example, especially if you're not able or amongst those that change their equipment every year or sooner.

I also have an 2080 and have the exact setup 5.1.4 for Atmos and DTS:X, and although I'm not perfectly happy to where I've placed my "ceiling" speakers and how Atmos is "sounding" because of this, I have to say that I enjoy it very much, and for example, I can't get enough listening to Kraftwerk 3-D disks which are in Atmos, and how they made their music sound in this "3D sound" is AMAZING!
Then again, the high/above/ceiling speakers can be mounted in various positions, depending where you can and want to have them, but following the guides and suggestions of the makers of the sound codecs you'll listen to (most likely Atmos and DTS:X, cause for Auro 3D there's not so much material), you'll be able to find the best locations for those "high/above" channels speakers so that you can enjoy all of them (they are quite flexible and despite naming the speakers/positions differently, basically they're pretty much same thing, so don't be scared). Furthermore, when you'll have the Receiver/AVR and the speakers in your home/room, don't be afraid to test and experiment with various locations and positions of your speakers, and for sure you'll find "the right places" for them all.

The POPPING issue should NOT scary you too much (and this is coming from someone that has had POP's and still have if using "Auto" or "AI"), because (1) there is very slim chance that you get one of those units, and (2) if you purchase it new, you'll always have the warranty and can ask for service or even replacement. So, this alone CAN'T BE a stopping reason.

As of Atmos material to test with, you can find some downloadable files directly on Dolby website, and, for sure you'll find several movies and even games that have Atoms, so I think you'll be able to test this once you'll have the equipment. And you'll see, once you'll have the hardware, you'll be more motivated to find sources to test and listen, and now days there's plenty, as opposed to when I've started back in 2015, when there was only one or two titles and those were sold out quickly.

Hope this will help and you'll get one step closer to your decision, and no matter which that will be, certainly you'll enjoy it!:wink:

EDIT: I've forgot to say one ESSENTIAL thing: SOUND is a EXTREMELY SUBJECTIVE matter, since everyone's ears and likes are slightly different, and ONLY by listening and experiencing yourself will tell you which is best (FOR YOU), not the myriad of reviews and opinions you'll read.
 

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Funny I rarely hear speak of "tone" here, and to me thats the main thing I seek when buying my pro audio gear for production or engineering. Few people know this (in this world of feature rich yet sterol designing) is: Usually the design of the power supply and DA Converters and how those two things interact with the analog circuitry is the MAIN and biggest factors in how ANY unit will deliver its signature character/tone. And the loss of that art of concentration in the design is why most new audio gear SUCKS tone wise compared to the old stuff.

And no matter where I look, other than the converters, I see nothing about the power supply design nor analog circuitry talks of these 3 units I'd like to compare. Everything is discussed about all these features and stuff that honest most likely take AWAY from a honest tone. lol I'd like to know about the guts and compare. Where is that info ? Why don't people talk about that more, and not Helos, Selos, Sirius and Darius lol

I will stand behind Yamaha at least has a better looking chassis design. Them lame looking Circles in the middle of a sterol looking box is just heartbreaking to see what has become of AVR's in the recent years. How do you even navigate around the thing ? Wheres the visual "WOW Factor" when your friend walks in the room ? Gone now... days of long ago, swept away, just a shell of their former selves.
You'll see in my previous response to you that I was referring to Yamaha sounding more "musical" than others, and I think this is a true statement, which many have said it, as they also said that (for example) Marantz is more "metalic" sound, and that Pioneer is very precise and even more "metalic" than all.

But I for one, think that this is not solely the Amplifier/Receiver/AVR thing, but also the SPEAKERS, which makes a GREAT DEAL of a difference!
And for supporting this, I can only give you my own experience, with my speakers (not so known brand, Magnat Quantum), with which I listen also to music, some even from SACD's (and I can swere to you, I've heard with those speakers and my 2040 parts of my well known music that never heard before, that I though is a new "version" if I would not playied same disks or FLAC/DSD files).

So, last year, when I decided to get myself another projector, that could do 4K UHD HDR, I firstly got an Sony (for which I gathered resources many years), but in just one week I decided is too expensive for what is worth, and instead got an Epson (as I had before), and with the remainder of the money I've got my 2040 and one Klipsch Center Speaker.
Now, that Klipsch Center Speaker, after I paid A LOT on it (without properly figuring out al the specifications, being in a rush to exchange the Sony for something else in the allowed time-frame), got me few "WOW"'s (honest wonders), when I first saw it (so little), and then when I've heard it (SO LOUD and CLEAR). But then, after (let's say, about 2 months), I've replaced it back with my Magnat Quantum which is the same model as my rest of the speakers, because just one thing: SOUNDED DIFFERENTLY than the rest (despite being AMAZINGLY GOOD for how small it is). And now, it in it's box, and serves as a "stand" for my old and good (fingers crossed for staying like this long time) Quantum Center (which is twice as high and I think thrice as heavy as the Klipsch). For example, in movies I had to bring the "dialogue lift" down to zero with it, while with the Quantum I usually keep it to 1, 2 or even 3 (maximum), and still doesn't sound so "RIGHT THERE" as was with the Klipsch, which also several of my friends noticed it was disturbing and "different" than the rest of the speakers.

So that experience showed me, first hand, that having speakers with same tonality all over your speakers is BEST for great results.

Hope this helps!
 

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I for one would say that either of those units you're looking at you'll get, you'll have something that you'll enjoy and happily use for years..............
**Edited, please see original post above for full length reply**
Thanks so much for the neutral detailed reply and info Felix ! Much appreciated.

I am one that knows first hand how sound is very subjective. But at some point, people do agree, when its obvious. And most of the subjectiveness is actually subconsciously fueled by a person liking or disliking the actual content more (when speaking on music). So for instance, someone that likes only Punk Rock probably doesn't like Pink Floyd or Fleetwood Mac AS MUCH. So even though undeniably Pink Floyd and Fleetwood Mac SONICALLY sound extremely light years more superior, that punk rock person might say, no I like "xxxx" better... BUT they ignorantly do not understand they are NOT judging by sonics, but rather accidentally judging by content/genre/instrumentation, etc..

This is why asking people about what sounds best in Home Theater is slightly more accurate, because people don't have that same accidental stigma. For instance if you like ONLY dramas and despise Fantasy/Action movies but were put in front of The Avengers battle scene, you still would say, wow, that did sound amazing though. This is where video and music have a psychic separation.

ALL that said - Wow, for someone to call Marantz "metallic sounding means they must have definitely changed. In my field metallic (tinny), etc.. is the worse description of a quality of sound/instrument. We try to stay away from that at all costs ! lol

And that is a 100% complete polar opposite description from the Marantz's I am used to in the late 70's-early 80's. God I hate the direction of this planet. (anyway).

I would love to test several units side by side like I used to. But, thanks to the direction of planet earth, no places in my local have them all out anymore side by side, and the ones that would, I aint dealing with now going outside, lines are ridiculous everywhere. Amazon won. Game over. I gotta buy blindly on the net.

May I ask what circumstances does one use "Auto" or "AI" on that Yamaha ? Like what is it auto doing or is the AI trying to figure out when engaged ? I'm curious if I would use these features.

P.S. Love Kraftwerk dude ! So sad to hear the main dude passed away recently. I remade a few Kraftwerk tunes for some clients in the past. Came out great ! Always been a fan. Love the 808 zap sound. You know thats achieved by a accident, using the trigger out on the 808 going to record it instead of triggering something ! lol Hilarious.
 

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****Edited, please see original post above to read full length reply***
.... but also the SPEAKERS, which makes a GREAT DEAL of a difference!
Yes of course. But the 2 interact off each other too (for yet another caveat of variables ! lol)

I am thinking of getting the entry level Dali line of Speakers. (Spektor or Oberon). As they seem cool. But I am still in the air about that. IMO it all starts with the Receiver though. Even though different speakers may make a bigger difference than different Receivers, my purchasing/deciding thought process travels the same order as the sound will travel. PC and Graphics/Audio Card first then Receiver, then speakers and the cables.

So you are indeed right, oh and ALWAYS buy "married" sets when dealing with speakers. Yes. Same with Sub. This is important. We do this by mandate in pro recording studios.
 

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I'm a little puzzled about what exactly "test tones" are you referring to.
If you'll going to describe a little more precise what you're doing and what you're hopping to hear/reproduce, we might be a better help if will better understand you.
As mentioned previously, I have the 2018 ATMOS demo disc. There's an option on the disc to play test tones to each speaker, similar to the test tone capability in the receiver set up. My concern is that when playing the tones on the disc, the ATMOS speakers never play. The sound comes from the main L & R speakers, although on the screen it shows my ATMOS speakers should be playing.
 

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As mentioned previously, I have the 2018 ATMOS demo disc. There's an option on the disc to play test tones to each speaker, similar to the test tone capability in the receiver set up. My concern is that when playing the tones on the disc, the ATMOS speakers never play. The sound comes from the main L & R speakers, although on the screen it shows my ATMOS speakers should be playing.
Are you using external power amp for the two Atmos speakers? Just check if you mistakenly connected the power amp interconnects to front speaker pre-outs instead of rear or front presence pre-outs. They are side by side and can easily be mistaken.
 

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Hey guys, so I have decided to get a Yamaha A2080 after my long debate between Marantz, Denon or Yamaha of same caliber.

But before I purchase, I wanted to clarify some things. Whats the deal with something called "Presence Speakers" on the back and not "Height" Chanels ? Same thing ? Or ? I'm looking to do 5.1.4 Atmos and don't want any restrictions.
I had SR6011 before my 2080. Yamaha calls Presence Speakers, while Marantz/Denon "Height speakers" on the back of the unit, and in the settings. But when choose/setup the layout, everything is the same, you can choose Front/Rear Height speakers, or Overhead Top/Middle/Rear. I ran 5.2.4 with both AVR. I like both, but the Marantz - at least in EU - much cheaper (950 EUR vs 1650EUR). The Yahama has more power, if you need it. In my space 13x18 both was more than enough, used them on -20dB (Marantz) & -35dB (Yamaha). Yamaha has more settings, Surround:AI, DSP, big screen, but I don't use them... Just because the price, I will go to Marantz 6 again when the HDMI 2.1 AVR arrives.
 

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Are you using external power amp for the two Atmos speakers? Just check if you mistakenly connected the power amp interconnects to front speaker pre-outs instead of rear or front presence pre-outs. They are side by side and can easily be mistaken.
No sir. Not running additional amp.
 

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POP ISSUE etc...

@chiefp and @Felix_ro and @bwillcox

18 months ago @rewen posted this in the X73 yamaha topic as the models that came out in 2011/2012 and 2013 were plagued with the POP issue: argentina, usa, australia, france, spain and other countries that ALL had similar problems...below is what he posted

"For those with sound cutting out and pops/crackles: I've been having the issue where sound cuts out randomly and it's gotten a lot worse over the past few months, now not working for many minutes until the receiver has warmed up after being turned on, or just not working at all. The speaker icons also turn off while sound is cut-out, causing it to look like an input issue. I thought it was HDMI ARC on my TV but Optical audio was no better.

Anyway this problem is very common and as mentioned in a few places the cause is the TI DSP chip (D80YK113CPTP400) failing. Not Yamaha's fault and not limited to Yamaha receivers. Maybe a replacement board will be better (until the chip on it inevitably fails, too) or maybe a replacement board will have already failed by the time you buy it. So replacement boards don't seem like a great option.

TI knows about this issue and it's documented here: They have a drop-in replacement part (D80YK113DPTP400).

I'm going to call Yamaha and see if they will replace my board seeing as it's a known-issue and they may have boards with the newer TI chip. Maybe TI even reimburses them in some part for this kind of issue, who knows. If they will replace then great, but even they won't, I'm going to order a D80YK113DPTP400 and attempt to replace the chip on my failed board myself"


the aventage 1000+ series does not have that TI burr brown chip....but the issue still exists...so the problem comes from elsewhere !


i justed posted this as info on this topic; it could help people.

on a side note: does SURROUND AI need wifi ?! its an algorithm that has a database and such so maybe it need internet ? did not read this anywhere but since it "learns"....
 

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POP ISSUE etc...

@chiefp and @Felix_ro and @bwillcox

18 months ago @rewen posted this in the X73 yamaha topic as the models that came out in 2011/2012 and 2013 were plagued with the POP issue: argentina, usa, australia, france, spain and other countries that ALL had similar problems...below is what he posted

"For those with sound cutting out and pops/crackles: I've been having the issue where sound cuts out randomly and it's gotten a lot worse over the past few months, now not working for many minutes until the receiver has warmed up after being turned on, or just not working at all. The speaker icons also turn off while sound is cut-out, causing it to look like an input issue. I thought it was HDMI ARC on my TV but Optical audio was no better.

Anyway this problem is very common and as mentioned in a few places the cause is the TI DSP chip (D80YK113CPTP400) failing. Not Yamaha's fault and not limited to Yamaha receivers. Maybe a replacement board will be better (until the chip on it inevitably fails, too) or maybe a replacement board will have already failed by the time you buy it. So replacement boards don't seem like a great option.

TI knows about this issue and it's documented here: They have a drop-in replacement part (D80YK113DPTP400).

I'm going to call Yamaha and see if they will replace my board seeing as it's a known-issue and they may have boards with the newer TI chip. Maybe TI even reimburses them in some part for this kind of issue, who knows. If they will replace then great, but even they won't, I'm going to order a D80YK113DPTP400 and attempt to replace the chip on my failed board myself"


the aventage 1000+ series does not have that TI burr brown chip....but the issue still exists...so the problem comes from elsewhere !


i justed posted this as info on this topic; it could help people.

on a side note: does SURROUND AI need wifi ?! its an algorithm that has a database and such so maybe it need internet ? did not read this anywhere but since it "learns"....
The chip I mentioned wasn't the only TI chip that was faulty. The document I referenced has a very lengthy list of models within it. Possibly one of those is the issue, though I haven't read the about the Aventage 1000+ series or what's within it. I only know that with regards to the models with the chip I cited, replacing the chip did solve the issue.
 

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You have to fill up a form. Nothing too great, private or intrusive.
https://www.trinnov.com/2020/02/15/trinnov-2020-trailer/

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This is strange.
From all four (4) Trinnov clips that are available for download (from here, without need of registration), when I play them from my Oppo 203, through my Yamaha Aventage RX-A2080, only one (the one with "7p1p4" in name) can be played, the rest play just video but the sound is "mute" and the Yamaha shows "Decoder Off", no matter which "Sur. Decode" option I choose. Yes, for the DTS:X Pro I understand it is correct to not be able to play, but the others, especially the "Atmos" one should play just fine.

Any thoughts on this, @BhootZ?

Also, how exactly do you play one file coded for one codec with the opposite decoder? Just switching the "Sur. Decode" option? Does this work on x080 models (I think you mentioned you have the 2070, right?)?
 

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This is strange.

From all four (4) Trinnov clips that are available for download (from here, without need of registration), when I play them from my Oppo 203, through my Yamaha Aventage RX-A2080, only one (the one with "7p1p4" in name) can be played, the rest play just video but the sound is "mute" and the Yamaha shows "Decoder Off", no matter which "Sur. Decode" option I choose. Yes, for the DTS:X Pro I understand it is correct to not be able to play, but the others, especially the "Atmos" one should play just fine.



Any thoughts on this, @BhootZ?



Also, how exactly do you play one file coded for one codec with the opposite decoder? Just switching the "Sur. Decode" option? Does this work on x080 models (I think you mentioned you have the 2070, right?)?
So I own the A3070 and someone told me that dolby has acted cocky with Ax80 models where they have "forbidden" dts to decode the dsur codecs and yamaha had to comply to keep using dsu (I guess). That's what led me to this thread. Similar thing happens in Android devices, where they need to give a dedicated Netflix button /key. For me I generally leave the sur decode mode to auto. Try running the atmos file with dsu. It should run fine then. And just a full disclosure, atmos file running with atmos decoder sounds very different than dts file running on dts decoder.


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So I own the A3070 and someone told me that dolby has acted cocky with Ax80 models where they have "forbidden" dts to decode the dsur codecs and yamaha had to comply to keep using dsu (I guess). That's what led me to this thread. Similar thing happens in Android devices, where they need to give a dedicated Netflix button /key. For me I generally leave the sur decode mode to auto. Try running the atmos file with dsu. It should run fine then. And just a full disclosure, atmos file running with atmos decoder sounds very different than dts file running on dts decoder.

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What are you referring to when say "dsu"? I think your suggestions and ideas would be much helpful if you'll present them fully and in such a manner that even someone that has no idea what you're saying, to still be able to understand exactly what your guidance/suggestion say.

My most scaring thing for me is that the file which despite is stating as having Atmos, it doesn't play sound at all.
I honestly thought that one device that was designed and produced in 2018/2019 would not find many formats that can't play.
 

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What are you referring to when say "dsu"? I think your suggestions and ideas would be much helpful if you'll present them fully and in such a manner that even someone that has no idea what you're saying, to still be able to understand exactly what your guidance/suggestion say.



My most scaring thing for me is that the file which despite is stating as having Atmos, it doesn't play sound at all.

I honestly thought that one device that was designed and produced in 2018/2019 would not find many formats that can't play.
DSU : Dolby Sound upmixer. It is a decoder which uses sound tracks (dolby/dts/aac) to be played in dolby config.
Neural X: is DTS upmixer which as per new Dolby guidelines can not decode the dolby tracks.
A lot more details can be found here
https://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/dolby-dts-auro-surround-sound-upmixer-comparison/

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DSU : Dolby Sound upmixer. It is a decoder which uses sound tracks (dolby/dts/aac) to be played in dolby config.
Neural X: is DTS upmixer which as per new Dolby guidelines can not decode the dolby tracks.
A lot more details can be found here
https://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/dolby-dts-auro-surround-sound-upmixer-comparison/

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OK, so if I press the remote's button that has "SUR. DECODE" on it, I will switch between "Auto", "Dsur", "Neural:X", "Neo:6 Cinema","Neo:6 Music" is what changes the decoder from one to another, right?
Then as I said, no matter which mode/upmixer/decoder I choose by pressing the "SUR. DECODE" button, there's no audio with three (3) of the four (4) files downloaded from Trinnov.
So, what you think is wrong? Might have also something defect?
 

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**edited, please see original post above for full length reply**.....the aventage 1000+ series does not have that TI burr brown chip....but the issue still exists...so the problem comes from elsewhere !
In all fairness though, rewen's issue was not talking about it only happening with "auto" and "ai" engaged. And from reading his post very carefully I truly believe we are dealing with two different issues that cause the same type of sound.

Those types of Pops, crackles and cutting of sound are sooooooo common when digital things begin to fail or are not receiving a code properly. It happens with lots of digital sound things when they go out or fail or are not SR synced, etc..

I believe (just my opinion though) that the issue with the older units was indeed as he said, the DAC chips, because the issue was in any mode, at any time in any function, which is so indicative of a DAC chip as the issue is blanketed over the entire system's output then.. And the issue with the newer ones from how its described more recently by others, seems to be another chip. And that other chip is more related to the Auto/AI function only. (imo)
 

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I had SR6011 before my 2080. Yamaha calls Presence Speakers, while Marantz/Denon "Height speakers" on the back of the unit, and in the settings. But when choose/setup the layout, everything is the same, you can choose Front/Rear Height speakers, or Overhead Top/Middle/Rear. I ran 5.2.4 with both AVR. I like both, but the Marantz - at least in EU - much cheaper (950 EUR vs 1650EUR). The Yahama has more power, if you need it. In my space 13x18 both was more than enough, used them on -20dB (Marantz) & -35dB (Yamaha). Yamaha has more settings, Surround:AI, DSP, big screen, but I don't use them... Just because the price, I will go to Marantz 6 again when the HDMI 2.1 AVR arrives.
Thanks bro ! Clears things up a bit for me.

Just a side question - from a personal opinion, lets say money aside, which has better tone to you (using same speakers lets say) - can you describe your personal opinion of the Yamaha tone characters vs the Marantz tone characters ?
 

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@rewen


minde sending me in PM the list of defective dac's ?

@JoelxD i see what you mean and it could be true...but AI mode is what the x80 series is all about and a default in that mode is outrageous....reading also point to the pops becoming common after fw update so maybe it could be that too...
when you get your unit please report back; like sais you have 3 years warranty so not an issue
 
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