[jsmiddleton4]

kris....


Actually all except center channel set to large. Have 8 inch 3 ways for rear back/rear surrounds and d'appolito arrays with 2 8 inch woofers each for my towers. My center channel probably could be large as well, 2-5 1/4 inch drivers with tang bend dome tweeter in ported cabinet. With YPAO it sets the xover for the sw to 40 as in the rest of my speakers are getting plenty of bass output "out there". While my 10 inch Klipsch can put out below 40 and does make a difference, I adjust the xover point up to THX xover of 80. I probably could get away without the SW if push came to shove except for those films like Die Hard, etc., that simply need a punch in the chest bass response. I use "Both" for the sw setting.


The information on YPAO equalizer is a little confusing, not a lot, just a little. I wish the manual equalizer had all the same capability if only to help me understand what the YPAO is doing. The manual equalizer may infact have all the same adjustments I just haven't found how to get to them. The manual equalizer is more like I remember with regular equalizers and db adjustments for particlar frequencies. And YPAO will get down to 32 but the manual equalizer stops at 63.


Here's an example of what I mean by confusing. Page 135.


"YPAO adjusts frequency characteristics to suit your listening requirements using a combination of the above three parameters (Frequency, Gain and Q factor) for each

equalizer band in this unit’s parametric equalizer. This unit has 7 equalizer bands for each channel. The use of multiple equalizer bands enables more precise adjustments of frequency characteristics (as in Figure 2). This is not possible using only a single equalizer band (as in Figure 1)."


It could be wrong but appears that the manual is using the same word, "band", to mean two different things. I'm still trying to figure out what components actually make a band a band. So each channel you can adjust 7 bands. Ok, what determines one band from another?

 

[VarmintCong]



Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 /forum/post/13336801


True, but I was assuming that anyone buying a receiver in the price range of the V663 would not be into separate power amps.

Well, you can buy used Rotel amps for like $400-600, would be a great match for the V663 - get all the latest technology matched with good amps. Many may already have the amps too. No need to pay extra for the V1800s amps when you have your own.

 

[jsmiddleton4]

can buy used Rotel amps for like $400-600....


You still end up at the cost point of the 1800. Simplier and the 1800 does look better than the 663.

 

[bottoms]



Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 /forum/post/13336919


When your receiver is doing bass management (as in this case), you don't want the sub itself to interfere with that. So turn the sub crossover to maximum.


Are you saying the receiver crossover frequency is 200Hz? That's high, because at 200Hz you can tell which direction the bass is coming from. I wouldn't have a sub 3 feet away from me unless the crossover frequency was pretty low (probably less than 100Hz).

Sorry the sub is 3ft away from the front speakers and 9ft from where I sit. So YPAO was close to getting it right . I set it on a tripod where I sit, I will check the receiver crossover again.

 

[kriktsemaj99]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 /forum/post/13337157


Actually all except center channel set to large. Have 8 inch 3 ways for rear back/rear surrounds and d'appolito arrays with 2 8 inch woofers each for my towers. My center channel probably could be large as well, 2-5 1/4 inch drivers with tang bend dome tweeter in ported cabinet. With YPAO it sets the xover for the sw to 40 as in the rest of my speakers are getting plenty of bass output "out there". While my 10 inch Klipsch can put out below 40 and does make a difference, I adjust the xover point up to THX xover of 80. I probably could get away without the SW if push came to shove except for those films like Die Hard, etc., that simply need a punch in the chest bass response. I use "Both" for the sw setting.

If you have LFE/BASS OUT set to BOTH then you have some sounds coming from both the front L and R and the sub, so you should still worry about the sub phase. I did a test where I played a pure sine wave tone (from a CD) at my crossover frequency, and I monitored the level on my SPL meter while varying the sub distance (i.e. the phase relative to the other speakers). There was a big difference in volume between the in phase and out of phase conditions. If you're unlucky enough to get the sub out of phase, the bass will be reduced significantly. If it sounds OK, maybe you're lucky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 /forum/post/13337157


The information on YPAO equalizer is a little confusing, not a lot, just a little. I wish the manual equalizer had all the same capability if only to help me understand what the YPAO is doing. The manual equalizer may infact have all the same adjustments I just haven't found how to get to them. The manual equalizer is more like I remember with regular equalizers and db adjustments for particlar frequencies. And YPAO will get down to 32 but the manual equalizer stops at 63.

I think we talked about this a few pages back. On the 3800 the manual EQ has all the capabilities of the YPAO auto-EQ, but on the 1800 the manual EQ is different (it has 7 fixed bands).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 /forum/post/13337157


It could be wrong but appears that the manual is using the same word, "band", to mean two different things. I'm still trying to figure out what components actually make a band a band. So each channel you can adjust 7 bands. Ok, what determines one band from another?

Think of each band as a separate filter that is being applied to the signal. On the 1800 manual EQ, each filter has a fixed centre frequency and width, and only the gain is adjustable. With YPAO (and manual EQ on the 3800) each filter has a selectable centre frequency (to the nearest 1/3 octave) and a selectable width (Q-factor), as well as an adjustable gain.

 

[jerryyyyy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by BFRedrocks /forum/post/13336009


Thinkin' about picking up the V3800, but was concerned about the video processing. How has your guys' experience been with the video capabilites if the 3800 compared to other AVRs? I've heard good and bad things about the ABT1010 chip...

I was saying to myself last night how well it upscaled a STD TV.... Looks fine to me.

 

[jsmiddleton4]

"If you're unlucky enough to get the sub out of phase, the bass will be reduced significantly. If it sounds OK, maybe you're lucky."


Yes. But my sw is not out of phase so I'm not sure what you are referring to.


With the 1800 "selectable" is probably not the right word. You can't select it. The software of the 1800 YPAO process decides all by itself. Not sure how it decides but it does somehow.


This would be one reason practical reason that the 3800 is of greater value. And given the way the YPAO works the same on both one would have to wonder if the difference is simply software and not hardware in terms of the equalizer capability.


"7 fixed bands...."


Yes, I understand "bands" when it refers to the 7 fixed bands for the manual equalizer. Having multiple "bands" within those "bands" is where it gets a bit confusing.

 

[jerryyyyy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 /forum/post/13327233


Yeah, and I think anything less than N would just drag down the entire network (assuming N is backwards compatible to B & G). I think there is a way to make a wireless router into a "bridge" but that might be a pricey bridge on an N network.

I did a bit of testing today with various home-made wireless tools (Intel packs in some nice stuff with the Dells) and discovered that I am getting about 18-24Mbps into the 3800 at 45' from the router, sooooo this is plenty fast. If I put a laptop right next to it running WMP11 at the same speed the streaming is impeccable. So, since I am geting problems with WMP11 (server) -> either PS3 or 3800, but not to Vista WMP11 on a laptop, I conclude that MS has a lock on this and neither the PS3 or the 3800 buffer correctly... in other words I got plenty of bandwidth except for the odd stumble which will screw up the system unless it is buffered.


There is a lot on this on the web in reference to the PS3 where there are also a lot of pleasant digital rights issues. Next to nothing on the Yamaha. Looks like I am into USB for my music collection. The interface, in any case, is lousy on the 3800 compared to either WMP11 or the SONY or for that matter iTunes. This is I expect all fixable with an upgrade, but would not hold my breath for one.


Bottom line, do not buy this machine to stream audio unless you are hardwired in, and then you will have a hard time with the interface.... try to scroll through 600 artists showing 10 at a time..... luckily I did not buy the machine with this as its primary use.... I doubt anyone would.... but it is a feature that comes up short... especially at this price. Take a look at the SONY or even Microsoft interfaces for a comparison.

 

[kriktsemaj99]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 /forum/post/13338297


"If you're unlucky enough to get the sub out of phase, the bass will be reduced significantly. If it sounds OK, maybe you're lucky."


Yes. But my sw is not out of phase so I'm not sure what you are referring to.

I don't want to make a bigger deal out of this than it really is, but how do you know your sub is perfectly in phase? It's not a yes/no situation, it can be anywhere between 0 and 180 degrees out of phase, and each extra foot of distance you add in the receiver changes the sub's phase relative to the other speakers (by about 25 degrees at 80Hz, where the wavelength is 14 feet).


Here's a link to an article that goes into more detail http://www.klipschcorner.com/Article...c-29f8aa90869f

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 /forum/post/13338297


This would be one reason practical reason that the 3800 is of greater value. And given the way the YPAO works the same on both one would have to wonder if the difference is simply software and not hardware in terms of the equalizer capability.

I'm sure it's a pure software limitation designed to help justify the higher price of the 3800. But for me it was a non-issue because the 3800 PEQ is not flexible enough to EQ a sub properly, and it's not really needed at higher frequencies where the GEQ is good enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 /forum/post/13338297


"7 fixed bands...."


Yes, I understand "bands" when it refers to the 7 fixed bands for the manual equalizer. Having multiple "bands" within those "bands" is where it gets a bit confusing.

No bands within bands

Each band has an associated frequency, gain and Q factor. It's just that frequency and Q factor are fixed for each band of the 1800's manual GEQ, but they are variable for the 3800's manual PEQ (hence it's possible for two bands of the PEQ to be set to the same frequency).

 

[RoboRay]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 /forum/post/13337535


can buy used Rotel amps for like $400-600....


You still end up at the cost point of the 1800. Simplier and the 1800 does look better than the 663.

Similar cost and better power using the pre-outs on the 663 to a good seperate amp. "Simplier" is not a factor for me, and I'll choose peformance over appearance any day of the week.

 

[toby10]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 /forum/post/13336732


toby10,


I heard back from Yamaha and they indicate the display is not a bug. It is adjusting the same frequency but different aspects of that frequency differently. So it will show 80 twice, etc. Different Q's, etc., as noted in terms of different bands. Although they didn't use the "band" word, it is the case that while the frequency is the same, every other aspect of it is different so that's why it lists the same frequency twice.


I'm still trying to figure out how to cycle through all the bands/options just to see what is going on.


Edit: Also I'm trying to find out exactly what a "band" is for this purpose. The manual talks about freqency/gain/q but unless I'm missing it, which could be the case, I don't see exactly what makes up a "band" for the "7 bands".

Yeah, as I suspected, your YPAO is adjusting the 80hz twice. In order to adjust the same frequency twice it must be done in two seperate bands.


The "band" is pretty much as I described (though I'm no expert). Here is how I would describe "band" in relation to the 1800 & 3800:


The 1800's 7 speaker bands are each limited to a single "fixed" frequency.

The 3800's 7 speaker bands allow you to "select" up to 28 different frequencies per band for bands 1 & 2, and "select" up to 20 different frquencies per band for bands 3 thru 7.

 

[wlfclf2000]

I just hooked up my new Y RX-V1800. I am playing a source from my Comcast cable box through HDMI into My 52 inch LCD Sony TV.

Speakers are ECA-4's and one ECA-44 Center Channel Speaker. The rear ECA-4's are not yet hooked up (so not plugged into the back of the amp). The sub is a Yamaha YST-FSW150 down firing sub.


The sound will play just fine for a short period of time then just cut off. No sound at all. I only have three speakers hooked to it and a sub. The trouble shooting guide says possible shorted speaker wire so I disconnected each speaker one at a time with no fix. Then it says could be wrong phase, center is a 4 ohm and I had already switched the phase to 6 ohm so the 4 ohm could work. No change. I switched it back to 8 ohm and again no change. Turn off amp, let it sit and then turn back on and everything is ok for a while then no sound. The video is unchanged. I also tried removing from all power for 5 mins then plugging back in, no help. There does not seem to be any specific time before it shuts off. Could be half a min, could be two mins.

Any ideas? Do you guys think I just have a bad amp?

I am no electronics whiz so I can use some help here.

Thanks.

BTW I have not had the amp turned up even out of the - db. These speakers worked fine on an old Pioneer amp with about 60% of the rating this amp has.

 

[Pilot12]



Quote:
Originally Posted by wlfclf2000 /forum/post/13340143


I just hooked up my new Y RX-V1800. I am playing a source from my Comcast cable box through HDMI into My 52 inch LCD Sony TV.

Speakers are ECA-4's and one ECA-44 Center Channel Speaker. The rear ECA-4's are not yet hooked up (so not plugged into the back of the amp). The sub is a Yamaha YST-FSW150 down firing sub.


The sound will play just fine for a short period of time then just cut off. No sound at all. I only have three speakers hooked to it and a sub. The trouble shooting guide says possible shorted speaker wire so I disconnected each speaker one at a time with no fix. Then it says could be wrong phase, center is a 4 ohm and I had already switched the phase to 6 ohm so the 4 ohm could work. No change. I switched it back to 8 ohm and again no change. Turn off amp, let it sit and then turn back on and everything is ok for a while then no sound. The video is unchanged. I also tried removing from all power for 5 mins then plugging back in, no help. There does not seem to be any specific time before it shuts off. Could be half a min, could be two mins.

Any ideas? Do you guys think I just have a bad amp?

I am no electronics whiz so I can use some help here.

Thanks.

BTW I have not had the amp turned up even out of the - db. These speakers worked fine on an old Pioneer amp with about 60% of the rating this amp has.

Do you get a message "check sp wire" four a couple seconds on the front of your amp when you first tirn it on? That also indicates a short.


When the manual refers to "out of phase", it means the pos/ neg wires are reversed on on or more speakers, not the wrong ohms setting. I'd double check to make sure you didn't accidently put a couple wires on the wrong terminals, both amp and speaker ends.


Did you run YPAO? You might do that again and see if you get any error messages to give you more hints as to what might be the problem. My 3800 found a speaker out of phase the first time I ran YPAO and it REALLY surprised me. I'd crossed wires on one line because of old unmarked wire. I know this is unlikely in your case since you've already disconnected all the wires one at a time.


Hope you don't have a bad AVR; I think we've only read of one or two here so far.

 

[VarmintCong]



Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboRay /forum/post/13338686


Similar cost and better power using the pre-outs on the 663 to a good seperate amp. "Simplier" is not a factor for me, and I'll choose peformance over appearance any day of the week.

I think you could go either way if you don't already have the amps.


But I wonder if DACs or anything else that affects SQ are better on the V1800 vs V663.

 

[wlfclf2000]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot12 /forum/post/13340317


Do you get a message "check sp wire" four a couple seconds on the front of your amp when you first tirn it on? That also indicates a short.


When the manual refers to "out of phase", it means the pos/ neg wires are reversed on on or more speakers, not the wrong ohms setting. I'd double check to make sure you didn't accidently put a couple wires on the wrong terminals, both amp and speaker ends.


Did you run YPAO? You might do that again and see if you get any error messages to give you more hints as to what might be the problem. My 3800 found a speaker out of phase the first time I ran YPAO and it REALLY surprised me. I'd crossed wires on one line because of old unmarked wire. I know this is unlikely in your case since you've already disconnected all the wires one at a time.


Hope you don't have a bad AVR; I think we've only read of one or two here so far.

I sayed phase but I was talking about the OHM adjustment. Do you know how I should be setting it if I have 8 ohm surround and a 4 ohm center?

I have not yet run the YPAO but they would all have to be out of phase for that to be the problem sence I did disconnect each one. I will connect the rear channel tonight and run the YPAO.

What is an "bad AVR"?

Thanks for the reply.

 

[jsmiddleton4]

toby....


"The 1800's 7 speaker bands are each limited to a single "fixed" frequency.

The 3800's 7 speaker bands allow you to "select" up to 28 different frequencies per band for bands 1 & 2, and "select" up to 20 different frquencies per band for bands 3 thru 7."


It looks like the 1800 YPAO does what the 3800 will allow manually but the 1800 won't do that manually. Which is part of the source of the confusion for me as when I go to the manual eq and try to figure out what is going on, I can't see any of the fancy eq stuff only the fixed frequencies. So its like, "Huh? What Q adjustments?"


In the end the YPAO was really all over the place anyway so the manual eq is where I end up for my tastes anyway.

 

[Pilot12]



Quote:
Originally Posted by wlfclf2000 /forum/post/13340494


What is an "bad AVR"?

Thanks for the reply.

I meant I hope you don't have faulty RX-V1800.


I'm not very familiar with using different ohm speakers on different channels. I don't know if that would cause problems. I have read that you should leave everything set to 8ohms, even for 4ohm speakers but I DON"T KNOW if this is good advice. There seems to be potential to over heat the amp.


I don't know how to link to another quote, but look back on page 69 message 2068 for that discussion.

 

[Pilot12]



Quote:
Originally Posted by wlfclf2000 /forum/post/13340494


I will connect the rear channel tonight and run the YPAO.

Consider solving your problem before adding more speakers. You don't need more that front L&R to run YPAO.

 

[toby10]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 /forum/post/13340517


......It looks like the 1800 YPAO does what the 3800 will allow manually but the 1800 won't do that manually. Which is part of the source of the confusion for me as when I go to the manual eq and try to figure out what is going on, I can't see any of the fancy eq stuff only the fixed frequencies. So its like, "Huh? What Q adjustments?"

Correct, YPAO does some EQ, that's one of the main points of YPAO. The YPAO may do the exact same EQ/GEQ/PEQ corrections on both the 1800 and 3800. The problem comes in (assuming there even is a problem) that further corrections by the user to correct/adjust for audio peaks, valleys, holes, etc... are limited to the FIXED frequencies predetermined by the 1800.


And as innacurate as YPAO is, I'd want (and I badly needed after running YPAO) the additional control of selectable freq's. On my system having selectable freq's to adjust made a tremendous difference in overall SQ. But I'd bet most would not need such a level of tweaking.

 

[BFRedrocks]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryyyyy /forum/post/13338393


Take a look at the SONY or even Microsoft interfaces for a comparison.

Just curious...which SONY interface are you referring to? I thought the comparable AVR (5300ES) didn't have networking capabilities?