AVS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 130 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
The Pioneer BDP-80FD/170FD/LX58/LX88 2014 Blu-ray Player Thread

This may include telling me to dream on and that it may never happen, feature requests, anticipation, availability, and operation. If these players are released, I will correct the model numbers in the title accordingly.

I would like to begin with my feature requests. All three models should include B/G/N wifi, 4G wifi, Source Direct for HDMI resolution, and support all disc and file types as well as bitstream them, reencode them, and convert them to multi-channel PCM, including DVD-AUDIO, DSD playback via SACD disc and DSD files off a USB device and DLNA network, and DSD-to-PCM conversion at 176.4KHz 32bit.

For their budget model, the BDP-170 should drop all analog A/V, optical, and coaxial digital audio outputs, as well as all Pioneer exclusives, such as PQLS, Stream Smoother, and Sound Retriever. It should have a plastic front panel.

For their mid model, the BDP-82FD/470 should add PQLS, Stream Smoother Link, Sound Retriever Link, coaxial and optical audio output, RS232 remote control interface, a 1/8" IR input jack, a 1/8" IR output jack, a blue power light filling and/or surrounding the power button, a long, blue light right below the tray or front panel display, and have an aluminum front panel.

For their flagship model, while keeping the extra features of the BDP-82FD/470, the BDP-83FD/LX58 should add Marvell Qdeo video processing via two HDMI outputs with 4k/Ultra HD/UHD upscaling (please don't drop 480i via HDMI), Composite, S-video, and Component video with 297MHz 14bit DACs, stereo, and multi-channel analog outputs with a frequency response up to 100KHz for SACD/DSD playback and 192KHz 32bit DSD-capable audio DACs, as well as Sound Retriever and Stream Smoother in the player itself. The analog audio and video boards and respective power supplies should be separated. A soundproof, shock resistant, quiet disc mechanism like in the DV-58AV/800AV/LX50 should be used. It should have an aluminum front panel.

As much as I enjoy wishing for this to happen, in the event that it doesn't, which it probably won't, I am happy with the results using my Yamaha BD-A1010 via multi-channel analog audio and HDMI video, manually switching video resolutions before I load a DVD or Blu-ray disc. I would just like to eliminate the extra cables and have more control over bass management and the option of applying auto volume leveling when people are sleeping, all without sacrificing audio quality when applying such features.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
15,922 Posts
They have no choice but to drop HD video over component. That day has long sailed. It has already been dropped.<br><br>
S~
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Right now, I'm using my BDP-23FD with my VSX-32 receiver. I'd love to see Pioneer come out with a BDP-82FD or similar so I can replace it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
FYI<br>
<a href="http://www.avmagazine.it/news/sorgenti/pioneer-bdp-lx58-88-con-hdmi-20_9095.html" target="_blank">http://www.avmagazine.it/news/sorgenti/pioneer-bdp-lx58-88-con-hdmi-20_9095.html</a><br>
<a href="http://www.avbuzz.com/bbs/av/av-thread-123547.html" target="_blank">http://www.avbuzz.com/bbs/av/av-thread-123547.html</a>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1516493/the-pioneer-bdp-82fd-83fd-170-470-lx58-2014-blu-ray-player-thread/0_100#post_24540843" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>grill</strong> <a href="/t/1516493/the-pioneer-bdp-82fd-83fd-170-470-lx58-2014-blu-ray-player-thread/0_100#post_24540843"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
FYI<br>
<a href="http://www.avmagazine.it/news/sorgenti/pioneer-bdp-lx58-88-con-hdmi-20_9095.html" target="_blank">http://www.avmagazine.it/news/sorgenti/pioneer-bdp-lx58-88-con-hdmi-20_9095.html</a><br>
<a href="http://www.avbuzz.com/bbs/av/av-thread-123547.html" target="_blank">http://www.avbuzz.com/bbs/av/av-thread-123547.html</a></div>
</div>
I'm definitely going to get one of these players. I'm not sure if I should just stick with my VSX-32 receiver, or somehow get rid of it and get either the new VSX-1124 or Elite version so I could have the better DAC and PQLS bitstream.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
Any more news??<br><br>
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1516493/the-pioneer-bdp-82fd-83fd-170-470-lx58-2014-blu-ray-player-thread/0_100#post_24616098" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>onesolo</strong> <a href="/t/1516493/the-pioneer-bdp-82fd-83fd-170-470-lx58-2014-blu-ray-player-thread/0_100#post_24616098"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
Any more news??<br><br>
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk</div>
</div>
Not that I'm aware of.<br><br>
While I appreciate the superior analog components in these players, I hope that Pioneer also considers releasing a version without analog and legacy digital outs of any kind, but with exactly the same HDMI outputs of the other players, with the Pioneer exclusives (StreamSmoother, SoundRetrieve, PQLS, etc.), and DSD-to-PCM at 176.4 KHz. I'm happy with my VSX-32. Once the player converts everything to PCM and then PQLS is enabled, I'm happy with the results. I wouldn't mind paying $300 for the extra HDMI Pioneer exclusives, but I would prefer not to pay $600 or $700 for an analog section I might not even use, unless I go from 7.1 back to 5.1 and connect my older receiver. I guess all we can do is wait and see what cards Pioneer deals us this fall.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
The BDP-170 is <a class="bbcode_url" href="http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/newsroom/news/BDP-170/index.html" target="_blank">official</a>. I wish it had PQLS and DSD-to-PCM at 176.4 KHz. I guess I'll have to wait for the BDP-LX58. The sad thing about that is that I'll have to pay extra for its superior analog section. If I take advantage of that, I'd have to go from 7.1 back to 5.1. Or else, I could replace my VSX-32 with the new VSX-80 so I could have a similar analog section with 7.1, but then I would be paying for the same thing twice, yet only wind up utilizing the analog section on the VSX-80! I guess when it comes right down to it, it would be better to waste $60 or $70 on two surround back speakers and speaker wire and not use them, as opposed to an extra $300 for circuitry and not take advantage of it, even if I have to go back to 5.1 in order to use it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Have you heard of the new Yamaha BD-S667? I think the Pioneer BDP-170 will probibly have two major advantages over it. It will probibly cost so much less, and its DVD section will probibly be able to be made multi-region via a special IR code, just like the BDP-140/150/160 can. Even without the Pioneer exclusives, the fact that it will support SACD playback and will bitstream high-resolution and lossless codecs and decode them as multi-channel PCM might make this a nice player for under $200. While I'm hoping that the BDP-82FD/83FD/LX58/LX88 become a reality because of their PQLS and DSD-to-PCM at 176.4 KHz, I think this player might make a great alternative to the Oppo BDP-103, especially if you don't need multi-channel analog.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
The reason I talk about Pioneer players a lot is because I have been a huge fan of them since the SD DVD days. I love the fact that you could get $1000 performance for $500. They still do the same with their receivers. Two of my favorite products of theirs are the DV-58AV 2007-model Elite DVD/DVD-A/SACD player, and even though I don't have one, the VSX-80 2014-model receiver. I hope they get past whatever their difficulties are in the Blu-ray world so that those of us who haven't been able to move past the DV-58AV and BDP-09FD could finally move on to something with quality, speed, and wide A/V format compatibility.<br><br>
I find it strange that Pioneer didn't release the BDP-160 in North America, yet the player was their first one with built-in wifi. I also find it strange that the 2012-model BDP-62FD/450 didn't get a replacement at all last year, such as the BDP-72FD/460. I hope 2014 turns out to be a good year for Pioneer, and that North America also gets the BDP-170, and that the BDP-62FD/450 gets a 2014 replacement, such as the BDP-82FD/470--two years past due! The promising articles in post #4 are now blank. Walkamo? David Susilo? What's going on here? As much as we love our DV-58AV and BDP-09FD, they go back to 2007 and 2008, respectively, and we really need at least the same sound and picture quality, wide audio/video file compatibility, and speed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
A US press release and a US product detail page have been posted for the Elite BDP-80FD on Pioneer's USA website. I notice the BDP-80FD is missing DVD-A, PQLS, IR input/output, and RS232C IR interface. In fact, it seems to be the same thing as the BDP-170 that's being sold outside North America. If I'm not mistaking, if this is the same thing as the BDP-170, shouldn't we be paying $200 or less like the BDP-140 and BDP-150? I'm sure Walkamo and David Susilo are reading this. If this can do something that the BDP-170 can't do, I'm sure you'll tell us. However, if it can't, your silence would imply that Pioneer of North America decided to sell all their Blu-ray players under the Elite brand and double the MSRP just for the Elite brand alone, without PQLS, DVD-A, IR input/output, RS232C IR interface, etc.. If this new BDP-80FD has something the BDP-170 doesn't have that would justify paying $300 for it, please let us know what it is. If not, for the sake of the reputation of Pioneer of North America, you still have a chance to make this right and release this under the Pioneer brand as the BDP-170 and give it an MSRP similar to the BDP-140 and BDP-150. Out of curiosity, when outputting DSD as PCM, are we still stuck with 88.2 KHz? Has Pioneer finally released a player with a DSD-to-PCM conversion of 176.4 KHz? Or will we be able to choose the conversion frequency?

Update:

This is wierd. The US manual says that in order to use PQLS with your Pioneer receiver, HDMI Control must be On on the player and receiver. However, it doesn't describe what PQLS is, nor mention it anywhere else. So it still isn't clear whether this new player has PQLS or not. I'll be back with another update after I check out the European BDP-170 manual.

How can this be? I thought Pioneer of Europe was supposed to be selling the BDP-170 now. Yet I can't find a European manual for it.

If anyone owns the BDP-170 and a Pioneer receiver with PQLS, here's what to do. If your receiver is from 2010 or earlier, set the HDMI output of the BDP-170 to PCM. If your receiver is from 2011 or later, set the HDMI output of the BDP-170 to Bitstream. Set the receiver's sound mode to AUTO SURROUND. Hit the PQLS button on the receiver's remote. If you can't get the PQLS light to come on, then there is a chance that the BDP-80FD and BDP-170 don't have PQLS.

If the BDP-80FD adds PQLS, it might be worth $50 more than the BDP-170 for that extra feature.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
906 Posts
Wow. What a letdown. I was waiting to see what the next generation Elite would offer. How can Pioneer stick Elite label on BDP-80FD? It's a travesty. Man, I am regretting not jumping on BDP-62FD when I had a chance to grab a clearance model from Best Buy for $90.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Pioneer of North America took down all home electronics press releases prior to 2010, but I would love to have been able to provide links to pages that might have provided possible proof of what I'm going to tell you now. Let's go back to the early to mid 2000s. Remember the DV-563A from 2003, DV-578A from 2004, and DV-588A from 2005? They were great budget-to-midpriced DVD/DVD-A/SACD universal players sold under the Pioneer brand. Back in January 2006, Pioneer of North America had three players at their CES booth--the DV-393, DV-490V (which added HDMI), and DV-696AV (which added HDMI, DVD-A/SACD, and DivX Ultra). I forget the release date of the other players, but I believe the DV-696AV was to be released in June for an MSRP of $150. Everyone who owned one of the models from 2003, 2004, or 2005 was holding their breath for the DV-696AV. HDMI output, DVD-A/SACD, and DivX Ultra for $150? Made in Thailand, not China (like the Oppo DV-970HD, Philips DV-721SA, or Yamaha DV-C6760/6770/6860, DV-S5860, DVD-C750, DVD-C950, and DVD-S657)? Why wouldn't you hold your breath for six months for a good player like the DV-696AV. Well anyway, June came. Except for North America, everyone else was enjoying their DV-696AV. Meanwhile, during the summer of 2006, Pioneer did release a DV-46AV under the Elite brand for $300. It was announced during June. When looking at the product description, it was the same as the DV-696AV. Then in the summer of 2007, without any press announcement, Pioneer of North America released the DV-48AV which added 1080p via HDMI, as well as DSD output via HDMI. It had an MSRP of $300. Meanwhile, the rest of the world was enjoying their DV-600AV which did the same thing for half the cost. In 2008, without any press announcement, Pioneer of North America released the DV-49AV, which added CD-to-USB ripping, as well as enhanced the functionality of the Gamma control, allowing a gamma curve for viewing in brighter surroundings. Only this time, it had an MSRP of $200. Meanwhile, the rest of the world once again was enjoying their DV-610AV for a little less. The only detectable differences between the international Pioneer versions and the North American Elite versions were the color of the front panel display, the Elite remotes with the extra buttons for front panel dimming and HDMI, and the firmware to accomidate for the extra functions of the Elite remotes. Unless some kind of audio-enhancement circuitry was added between the Burr-Brown PCM1742KE DACs and the 5.1 analog output section, I thought Pioneer was ripping us off by selling the DV-46AV and DV-48AV for double the cost. At least between 2006-2008, Pioneer of North America didn't sell entry-level DVD players under the Elite brand and double the cost. The fact that the BDP-170 is Pioneer's entry-level Blu-ray player would make masking it as an Elite BDP-80FD an even worse approach than masking the DV-696AV/600AV/610AV as the Elite DV-46AV/48AV/49AV. Three ways of proof my theory would be correct would be (1) if Walkamo and David Susilo don't explain this situation at the forums to protect the reputation and integrity of Pioneer of North America, (2) if my posts regarding Pioneer of North America selling entry-to-midlevel players as Elite players costing twice as much get deleted, and/or (3) the powers that be decide to ban me from posting at AVS. If I can't post, even though it might take longer, I could always get answers to nonrelated audio/video issues by reading, as well as through hands-on trial and error. Banning a user, deleting his posts, or industry insiders not commenting would only proove that this theory was not to be discovered by anyone for the sake of reputation and integrity. All it takes is knowing a company's product lineups, studying paterns, and getting really good at it and I'm sure others besides myself would be able to get what I'm talking about if they haven't figured it out already. If that happens, lots of posts would get deleted. Lots of users might even get banned. Worst of all, people in North America might order a modified BDP-170 from other countries for less than $200 and Pioneer of North America would have a hard time selling the Elite BDP-80FD for $300 unless (1) it has a major advantage over the BDP-170, or (2) if they sell it as the BDP-170, with an MSRP of their entry-level Blu-ray players.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
But their new Elite VSX-80 receiver lives up to their high performance at midprice reputation. I'd like to see them release a Blu-ray player like their old DV-58AV from 2007 with high performance at midprice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I wouldn't give up on Pioneer just yet. Walkamo just posted this news. Now I'm going to be holding my breath again!

Hi BigC,

Pioneer is not shifting their Home Electronics Business to Baring and Onkyo. Baring has purchased 51% of Pioneer as an investment and Pioneer and Onkyo own the remaining 49%. The exact split has not been announced yet. Pioneer and Onkyo will remain separate brands and investments from Baring will give us the capital to invest in non-traditional areas.

As far as BD is concerned you will see new models (Even a new flagship) launch by the end of the year.

Here is a link to a good explanation of what is going on at Pioneer.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/24/pioneer-and-onkyo-unite-home-av-groups/

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
906 Posts
@jurid001

Sorry to go slightly OT but I see that you have 62fd and Sony S6200. How would you compare the DVD upconversion between the two? I read Sony s6200 is quite good but I am thinking 62fd would be better with its Qdeo. What do you say? Thanks.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
906 Posts
I wouldn't give up on Pioneer just yet. Walkamo just posted this news. Now I'm going to be holding my breath again!
Here's to hoping for Pioneer BDP-82FD/83FD. 170 is out already, right? So maybe all is not lost. Although I have to say offering us 80fd is almost insulting. :mad:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Here's to hoping for Pioneer BDP-82FD/83FD. 170 is out already, right? So maybe all is not lost. Although I have to say offering us 80fd is almost insulting. :mad:
I agree with you about the BDP-80FD. They still can make it right. See post 13 of this thread.

I appreciate the fact that Walkamo came on here to set the record straight for us. No answer at all would have only been an admition of defeat. Remember, back in March there was a press release from a European electronics site about a BDP-LX58 and BDP-LX88, but it was taken down. Between that press release and the latest post from Walkamo, I think we just might see the Blu-ray player from Pioneer we've been waiting for! Now I have my heart once again set on the Elite VSX-80 receiver with its Sabre ESS9006 DACs and PQLS bitstreaming feature! A new skill Pioneer acquired is how to keep the consumer guessing whether Pioneer is going down or not--LOL!
 
1 - 20 of 130 Posts
Top