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So who wants some minor Stonewater Cinema updates? No one?? Well, too bad, you're getting the update anyhow. I'm sure you know what I mean when I say everyone's workspace eventually reaches a certain level of complete and utter chaos and disorganization. You could say this was the case with the entire basement. Tools everywhere. Sub boxes waiting to be placed in hibernation. Dust. Spider webs smacking you in the face every ten steps. So yeah...I had the available time and was in the mood to do some serious reorganization. Worked two full days and still didn't get to everything, but man does it look MUCH better than it did and I can easily call up any tool or supply in mere seconds vs. 15 minutes of rummaging around like a headless idiot.

First, I cleared a space in the theater (now a storage room!) and decided to add the 1" rubber feet to all the sub boxes.

I was using the raw 1/4" x 20 screws as 'feet' to elevate the bottom of the sub from the ground, allowing me to paint all sides of the sub at once.
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Here's a quick 'family shot' of the screws I used, the lock washers (maroon box), the correct washers and the rubber feet. The whitish blooming on the rubber feet was easily wiped off by hand, FYI.
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This is the finished installation. You can see why I opted for the wider washer to fit within the recess of the rubber foot yet evenly distribute the load:
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Rinse and repeat for all the rest....
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Once I installed the feet for the custom rear sub boxes, I slotted them in their new home. To say they fit like a glove would be an understatement. They stand proud of the backbox by 1/16" or so, but really bang-on. The gap at the top is for a right-angle Speakon connector. Looking at the engineering diagrams, it is going to be super tight. I may end up retrofitting a small channel in the inside top of the back box to give a touch more breathing room to the connector.

Here's one of the subs in place after I did some cleanup:
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A shot of both subs in place. Ironically, the height of the piled molding you see on the LEFT of the picture below (ie the right rear sub) is about the same as the future height of the riser. Add in a gap for carpet, 5.25" base molding and a 1.5" lip for fabric track and the sub driver will be just barely above the base molding by about 2".
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I also wanted to move my two Middle Atlantic Racks into the official equipment room (i.e. make room for the subs in the theater / storage room), but needed a quick way to get my 1.3 billion wires out of the way. So I rigged up a couple of 2x4 arms coming out from the side walls...
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And then simply laid the wire bundles over each arm....
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See? Not super exciting, but glad I got it done and especially glad to see how perfectly those rear subs in the custom-designed enclosures fit their double-layer MDF back boxes. Small wins.

And for anyone asking, yes....those 24" sub boxes are still INSANELY heavy. I had forgotten how difficult they were to pick up and move around delicately.
 

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So Tim,

Those new subwoofer feet are something like a modified SVS "isolation-feet" I have under my SVS PB-16 ULTRA subs I'm thinking.
I'm not posting pictures so as not to clutter-up your dedicated thread.
Nice going and from what you said on weight your feet are for that additional weight I'm thinking.

Always fun :) dropping by to see what your doing on the project. ✅

Later buddy,
Terry
 

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Those new subwoofer feet are something like a modified SVS "isolation-feet" I have under my SVS PB-16 ULTRA subs I'm thinking.
Nice going and from what you said on weight your feet are for that additional weight I'm thinking.
Hey Terry. Upon recommendation from others, I bought the Penn-Elcom 9106 Rubber Cabinet Foot. 2.5" in diameter and 1" high with just the right rubber hardness / compression to handle the weight while still providing the isolation. Very happy with these feet.
 

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The email notification I’ve been waiting for!!! Stonewater is back - even a small update still counts.

Subs look good in their house Tim. Well done. Those (and the others) are gonna slam that room when they’re done.
 

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Woo hoo, an update from Tim!! Does this mean we can hope to see carpet down by December now?? :D

Here's one of the subs in place after I did some cleanup:
View attachment 3039148

And for anyone asking, yes....those 24" sub boxes are still INSANELY heavy. I had forgotten how difficult they were to pick up and move around delicately.
I think the most impressive thing here is how you managed to slide those 500lb behemoths into those spots, with 1/16" on each side - WITHOUT completely jacking up the backer boxes. Mine would be nothing but cracked and chipped paint, wonderbar gouge marks, and dusty fingerprints by the time I was done!!

I also wanted to move my two Middle Atlantic Racks into the official equipment room (i.e. make room for the subs in the theater / storage room), but needed a quick way to get my 1.3 billion wires out of the way. So I rigged up a couple of 2x4 arms coming out from the side walls...
View attachment 3039155



And for anyone asking, yes....those 24" sub boxes are still INSANELY heavy. I had forgotten how difficult they were to pick up and move around delicately.
3039365
 

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Woo hoo, an update from Tim!! Does this mean we can hope to see carpet down by December now?? :D
I pulled an all-nighter and carpet is going in today, calibration tonight and popcorn by tomorrow morning. lol.

I think the most impressive thing here is how you managed to slide those 500lb behemoths into those spots, with 1/16" on each side - WITHOUT completely jacking up the backer boxes. Mine would be nothing but cracked and chipped paint, wonderbar gouge marks, and dusty fingerprints by the time I was done!!
Those rear sub boxes are heavy...but only about 100 pounds I would guess. Not having the driver installed meant I could use the opening as my 'handle' and also use my thighs to help angle it in, so undeserved kudos on sliding those things into position. I will say it was weird feeling the air rush out as I placed the sub due to the extremely tight tolerances.

And I may or may not have covered this, but I took three scraps of plywood and cut them exactly 1/8" wider than these rear subs. I then used these scraps as precise templates / jigs to get the back box width 100% perfectly square and precise. Height didn't matter as much as I had the rubber feet and a gap for the planned Speakon connector. Once the first layer of sides were on, I flush cut the back with the router and then Green Glued on the second later and flushed those sides to the back. I then used another scrap the exact depth of the sub as a template for my table saw blade offset. I had a neighbor help me, but I ran the back box through the table saw to flush the two layers of face materials and get the precise depth. I then used those 2" plywood scraps clamped flush to the leading edge of the back box when installing so the back box was 100% flush and precisely aligned / true with the back wall. I end up using a lot of scrap pieces as temporary jigs because it's 100% dead on every time and super easy to do. Call me a simpleton, but that's the way I riddled my way through the precision issue of getting sub and back box installed with such precise tolerances. In retrospect, I would have added a 1/16" to the depth to account for a little slop, but it doesn't matter in the end result.
 

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Those rear sub boxes are heavy...but only about 100 pounds I would guess. Not having the driver installed meant I could use the opening as my 'handle' and also use my thighs to help angle it in, so undeserved kudos on sliding those things into position. I will say it was weird feeling the air rush out as I placed the sub due to the extremely tight tolerances.
Oh, I take it back then, sounds too easy now. :p

And I may or may not have covered this, but I took three scraps of plywood and cut them exactly 1/8" wider than these rear subs. I then used these scraps as precise templates / jigs to get the back box width 100% perfectly square and precise. Height didn't matter as much as I had the rubber feet and a gap for the planned Speakon connector. Once the first layer of sides were on, I flush cut the back with the router and then Green Glued on the second later and flushed those sides to the back. I then used another scrap the exact depth of the sub as a template for my table saw blade offset. I had a neighbor help me, but I ran the back box through the table saw to flush the two layers of face materials and get the precise depth. I then used those 2" plywood scraps clamped flush to the leading edge of the back box when installing so the back box was 100% flush and precisely aligned / true with the back wall. I end up using a lot of scrap pieces as temporary jigs because it's 100% dead on every time and super easy to do. Call me a simpleton, but that's the way I riddled my way through the precision issue of getting sub and back box installed with such precise tolerances. In retrospect, I would have added a 1/16" to the depth to account for a little slop, but it doesn't matter in the end result.
I dig it, that's a cool and simple way to accomplish that! I'm all about the DIY solution to these challenges w/on-hand supplies.[/quote][/QUOTE]
 

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Probably a really dumb question, but why so tight of spacing on the sub placement? Are you worried about vibration between the wall and sub box when it gets going? Would there be a resonance concern if there was a larger gap or something else?
 

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Probably a really dumb question, but why so tight of spacing on the sub placement? Are you worried about vibration between the wall and sub box when it gets going? Would there be a resonance concern if there was a larger gap or something else?
Not dumb at all. My whole theater space is very, very tight when you consider the planned decorative columns and physically fitting everything into the space - including 18" rear subs. I was also limited on depth and how much I could recess that enormous back box into the rear wall. If you go back through the pictures, you'll see it's actually recessed into both rear walls. With 4" deep acoustic treatments on the rear wall and the box / sub left proud of the wall 2", this allows me to cover the front of the sub box with 2" of acoustic treatments and the driver's full XMAX to be achieved without slapping the back of the acoustic fabric once the fabric is stretched in position.

Separately, it is never a good idea from an acoustic standpoint to have a speaker inside another box or cabinet because of how it negatively impacts the sound. As such, back boxes should be held to very tight tolerances and the front speaker baffle should not be recessed within the box. At-most it should be flush with the face of the box to limit any acoustic impact from that secondary box. Treat it no different than a front baffle wall where the speaker face is flush with the acoustic treatments.
 

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Separately, it is never a good idea from an acoustic standpoint to have a speaker inside another box or cabinet because of how it negatively impacts the sound. As such, back boxes should be held to very tight tolerances and the front speaker baffle should not be recessed within the box. At-most it should be flush with the face of the box to limit any acoustic impact from that secondary box. Treat it no different than a front baffle wall where the speaker face is flush with the acoustic treatments.
Thanks for the discussion on the acoustic properties of a backer box. I had no idea! #Always_Learning

In my scenario, potential flanking sound into the rest of the house is a huge concern. Is there a way to isolate the speaker from the backer box and thus reduce the risk of coupling the enclosure to the wall framing without compromising the sound? My first thought is an isolation pad to support the weight and then stuff the gaps (roughly 1/2" wide) between the enclosure and the backer box with insulation. Given the long wavelengths that a subwoofer reproduces, I'm thinking this would not be a huge problem.

On the other hand, I would guess that surround and Atmos speakers would be much more sensitive to the acoustic problems created by a box-in-a-box with a gap between the two boxes. I imagine the backer box might behave like a Helmholtz Resonator. Is my thinking correct on this, or am I missing another, more important, factor?

Mike
 

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Separately, it is never a good idea from an acoustic standpoint to have a speaker inside another box or cabinet because of how it negatively impacts the sound.
That is cool, so the tight tolerance makes it seem as if it is not within a box. You are a wealth of knowledge sir. This has been one of the more enjoyable builds I have followed in recent years. Looking forward to your work.
 

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Thanks for the discussion on the acoustic properties of a backer box. I had no idea! #Always_Learning

In my scenario, potential flanking sound into the rest of the house is a huge concern. Is there a way to isolate the speaker from the backer box and thus reduce the risk of coupling the enclosure to the wall framing without compromising the sound? My first thought is an isolation pad to support the weight and then stuff the gaps (roughly 1/2" wide) between the enclosure and the backer box with insulation. Given the long wavelengths that a subwoofer reproduces, I'm thinking this would not be a huge problem.

On the other hand, I would guess that surround and Atmos speakers would be much more sensitive to the acoustic problems created by a box-in-a-box with a gap between the two boxes. I imagine the backer box might behave like a Helmholtz Resonator. Is my thinking correct on this, or am I missing another, more important, factor?

Mike
This is precisely why I use the Kinetics Noise Control CWCA brackets to completely decouple the entire wall structure. The sides / surrounds are typically smaller, have bass rolled off below 80Hz and usually have dense MDF enclosures. As such, if you put your hand on one of your surround speakers when it is absolutely blasting, you will barely feel any vibration energy. Put this on a simple rubber pad and virtually zero energy would make it into the wall structure...and not the extent it can be easily heard in adjacent rooms. But as you can see, I have very large 18" subs in recessed back boxes planned which is exactly the kind of energy you need to contain. I used large 1" rubber feet on these subs but the reality is the sub is going to be clamped to the back box to prevent rattling / motion since the driver is on top, making my enclosure top heavy. I can see this being an issue if I didn't clamp the two items together as one structure, but again...this is why I elected to decouple the entire wall structure.

You are right that the upper-range frequencies are more sensitive to being recessed in a box. My rear surround speaker back boxes are actually deeper and wider than the actual planned speakers for the space. The reason for this is so they could be angled inward toward the listening position. As a consequence, I will still bring the speakers as forward as I can to clear the front edge of the back box and fill the remainder of the box with Roxul to eliminate dead space in the box.

As a side note, I have the option of using slightly angled rubber pads under most of the side speakers to get a slight toe downward toward the listening position if-needed.

That is cool, so the tight tolerance makes it seem as if it is not within a box. You are a wealth of knowledge sir. This has been one of the more enjoyable builds I have followed in recent years. Looking forward to your work.
Thanks! I really appreciate the feedback and am truly humbled. I wish I had more time to work on the project, but given work / family demands at the moment, it is what it is.
 

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This weekend I ended up digging out my two 24" sub boxes. You can't see it from all my previous pictures, but with painting eight sub boxes, the two 24" sub boxes only received one coat of DuraTex...and even then I was stretching it just to get the first coat coverage. There are a number of thin spots, especially where I had to use a foam brush around the beveled driver opening:
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And some faint tiger striping from the 9" roller I was using which revealed the candy stripe method the roller was put together. Here's a photo of the top of the subwoofer. You can't feel this candy striping, but it is an uneven sheen, likely caused by spreading the first coat too thin.
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So I laid down plastic and carefully dollied both boxes into place on some scrap 3/4" MDF to get the boxes slightly off the ground and wiped all surfaces down twice since the boxes were filthy with dust.
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And then sealed up the opening with blue painter's tape since I bought a gallon of the spray version of Duratex for this next go-round:
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Neatly trimmed up the tape with a razor knife....

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...and then disaster....

I broke out my HVLP sprayer....and quickly questioned my previous decisions to get the spray version of Duratex. Outside of rattle cans, I've never sprayed anything in my life. There wasn't an overwhelming amount to learn in terms of setup and getting the right viscosity, but I started to question whether or not I strain the Duratex, if the tip which came with the sprayer was properly sized for this job, would the pressure provided be sufficient since my sprayer was electric and no adjustments could be made to the PSI. After texting a few buddies, most recommended a 2.2 or 2.4mm tip and I had a 2.0mm. Would mine clog if I tried to use it? Would the filter actually filter out the texture? Should I ignore the direct warnings in the Earlex owner's manual saying do NOT spray textured coatings as you could ruin the gun? I basically went into analysis paralysis. Thankfully, I was able to find all the answers I needed and could proceed with spraying, but by then it was too late and the weekend had passed.

No big deal, though, as everything is 95% set up and I can be up and spraying within 15 minutes once I decide to spray the cabinet. I just couldn't devote the time necessary to wait between an addition 2 coats plus cleanup yesterday. I'll likely let the boxes dry for 1-2 weeks before stuffing, wiring and yes, installing the drivers. These boxes are already shockingly heavy, so I'm not sure how moving the around is going to go once a heavy driver is installed. If I recall, total finished weight will be just above 400 pounds per box fully loaded.
 

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I originally didn't want to chance ruining the gun because I was spraying a textured material....something specifically prohibited in bold type at the very front of the owner's manual. There's a big difference between replacing a $25 Harbor Freight gun and a $300 sprayer system I have other plans for.

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My rush to paint was not so great that the answer couldn't wait. I know 'when in doubt, full send' is a mantra around here, but not when new equipment could be potentially at-risk for damage.

I found a guidance document on the Duratex website that 1.8mm or greater is the recommended tip size. I also reached out to Kyle Bliss (Life of Bliss on YouTube) and asked what tip he used because he mentioned most other settings except for the tip size he used. He used a 1.8mm for those curious to know. He also filtered as a hedge against bigger chunks of texture making their way through the system.

So with the technical aspects out of the way, I feel OK moving forward and will....likely after work today.
 

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You've got this!

I think that their warning is against paints with actual texture particles in it. Duratex doesn't have chunks or particles in it (unless something foreign or some dried Duratex got into the bucket) but is just really thick "paint" that when applied creates a texture based off of the type or roller, brush, or sprayer setup used. Since it is thick, it doesn't level out like regular paint and cures vs. dries.

So you will be good with spraying. The trick will be the clean up more than the spraying itself since once cured you will probably end up with a throw away sprayer.
 

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The Spray Station is pretty robust as HVLP's go. I sprayed easily over a thousand gallons of all kinds of finishes through one including old latex paint without it failing me before going to a Fuji 3 stage. The tip size as you've figured out is where the difference lies - and yes strain everything you put through there. A large chunk will mess it up. The smaller ones in Duratex shouldn't give it too much issue.
If you're really just too concerned about ruining it (understandable) then perhaps a cheaper model like one of the HF or ones from Home Depot may be the way to go. Would put your mind at ease.
 
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