AVS Forum banner

381 - 400 of 3235 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,160 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG  /t/1442340/the-stonewater-cinema-build-thread/360#post_23011072


I think Mrs. RTROSE would call that sub a Husbandshifter...because it would shift you right out the front door!!

Lmao this made me laugh out loud!

I too long for an OS LFU behind my screen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,160 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE  /t/1442340/the-stonewater-cinema-build-thread/360#post_23015369


That is true beauty. Even the urinals are classy. I have not seen floor length urinals since my elementary school days. Thanks for sharing the extra pics. Very classy. Doesn't give you a "total" pass though on construction pics, a reprieve yes, a total pass, no.



Regards,


RTROSE

Man I was gunna say same thing bout the urinals and having similar ones in elementary. TMcG great pics of a wonderful theater!! Absolutely gorgeous. Hey at QSC did they have some demo theaters there they let ya listen too? So cool you got to go there!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,824 Posts
Discussion Starter #383

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddig  /t/1442340/the-stonewater-cinema-build-thread/360#post_23015461


Hey at QSC did they have some demo theaters there they let ya listen too? So cool you got to go there!!

Oh yeah...they had a HUGE Christie Digital projector, gigantic anamorphic lens and a motorized masking screen. The screen wasn't that great because it was the commercial perforated stuff but with more residential-like viewing distances. I heard multiple demos showcasing the power of different DSP engines vs. the natural, unprocessed signals. BIG difference. It wasn't even close to be perfectly honest. You could actually hear the value the DSP brought to the equation.


I wish I could have taken pictures, but they are launching a new two-piece speaker system designed for the high-end residential market or smaller commercial theaters. They had their very first production units set up and played a few scenes from "Master and Commander". The setup was a horn midrange/tweeter assembly with their patented wave guide dispersion "magic" and a dual 12" bass module with 2 folded horns incorporated into the box. They claim flat to 20Hz and I have to say....it really sounded like it given the depth of bass. Each full speaker (i.e. the upper assembly and the dual 12" lower assembly) has a targeted street price of $4000 and is due to be released in March or April. They have already been making announcements that a new speaker system was forthcoming, fyi, but it was really cool to get to audition it.


Words cannot describe the stacks and stacks and stacks of $5000 - $10000 processors EVERYWHERE in their audio labs. There was a bit of "mad scientist" to it all with cables strewn everywhere for quick testing and changeouts but to some extent this is exactly the type of guerrilla set-up that I would expect in a full-scale lab environment.


All-in-all it was a very unique experience and I was very appreciative of their time to personally showcase their technology.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
147 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG  /t/1442340/the-stonewater-cinema-build-thread/330#post_22997941


I am aware that Procella uses the Xilica DSPs (XP-3060) at tradeshows for the active crossover section of the left / center / right speakers. That may have changed now that they have outboard amplifiers with DSP built-in. Probably a good question for Gerben or one of the Procella heads to chime in on.


[...]


Regarding the P6s....technically speaking the P610 being used for the left, center and right speakers are a standard P6 attached to a P10i subwoofer / bass module with a simple bracket that allows the P6 to pivot toward the listening position. So the bass module is quite literally treated as a completely separate channel and requires an active outboard crossover to integrate with the P6 attached to it (and separate amplification, fyi). So the nine P6 speakers are left, center, right, front side speakers, rear side speakers and rear surround speakers. Then the three P10 bass modules, then stereo subs. So this gives me 14 channels with two channels to spare for balancing subwoofers, Buttkicker signal, height or width channels, etc. Perhaps the 15th channel will be used for a balancing subwoofer and the 16th channel will be used to provide the combined LFE signal to an outboard amplifier powering the Buttkickers built into the theater seating.

Yes, we have used the Xilica, with good results. We like that unit: affordable, good quality, easy S/W configuration. Since we have brought out the DA-2800DSP amps, we don't need outboard DSP any longer, the DA-2800DSP splits the signal into Bass and Mid/High. On top of that, the DA2800 (with or without the DSP) is a very good amp as well!


Now, for the P610, the P6 are indeed physically the same as any other P6, but in their P610 guise, we allow it to concentrate on Mid/High, by crossing over a fair bit higher than 80Hz, which is the (THX) working range for the P6 that are on surround duties. As the P6's in the P610 are relieved from Mid-Bass duties, they can play louder. The P10 then carries the Bass and Mid-Bass and the whole system can play louder than a P6 crossed over at 80Hz. So the result is a full-range system that can play louder! As a result, folks all over the world are loving their P610...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,160 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG  /t/1442340/the-stonewater-cinema-build-thread/360#post_23015722


Oh yeah...they had a HUGE Christie Digital projector, gigantic anamorphic lens and a motorized masking screen. The screen wasn't that great because it was the commercial perforated stuff but with more residential-like throw distances. I heard multiple demos showcasing the power of different DSP engines vs. the natural, unprocessed signals. BIG difference. It wasn't even close to be perfectly honest. You could actually hear the value the DSP brought to the equation.


I wish I could have taken pictures, but they are launching a new two-piece speaker system designed for the high-end residential market or smaller commercial theaters. They had their very first production units set up and played a few scenes from "Master and Commander". The setup was a horn midrange/tweeter assembly with their patented wave guide dispersion "magic" and a dual 12" bass module with 2 folded horns incorporated into the box. They claim flat to 20Hz and I have to say....it really sounded like it given the depth of pass. Each full speaker (i.e. the upper assembly and the dual 12" lower assembly) has a targeted street price of $4000 and is due to be released in March or April. They have already been making announcements that a new speaker system was forthcoming, fyi, but it was really cool to get to audition it.


Words cannot describe the stacks and stacks and stacks of $5000 - $10000 processors EVERYWHERE in their audio labs. There was a bit of "mad scientist" to it all with cables strewn everywhere for quick testing and changeouts but to some extent this is exactly the type of guerrilla set-up that I would expect in a full-scale lab environment.


All-in-all it was a very unique experience and I was very appreciative of their time to personally showcase their technology.

Awesome man just awesome! What brought me to the hobby of HT years ago started with my love affair for the cinema and film, and I'm all about Pro Cinema gear as many of us here are. I'm a big QSC fan too. Best cinema I've ever heard was an all QSC equipped theater with Dolby Atmos. Ironically the video quality was poor due to a scope image on a 1.78 screen that was also in need of focus. Anytime i go to a cinema that uses QSC I know it will sound good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,824 Posts
Discussion Starter #386

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddig  /t/1442340/the-stonewater-cinema-build-thread/360#post_23016479


Awesome man just awesome! What brought me to the hobby of HT years ago started with my love affair for the cinema and film, and I'm all about Pro Cinema gear as many of us here are. I'm a big QSC fan too. Best cinema I've ever heard was an all QSC equipped theater with Dolby Atmos. Ironically the video quality was poor due to a scope image on a 1.78 screen that was also in need of focus. Anytime i go to a cinema that uses QSC I know it will sound good.

As a side-note, AMC theaters uses QSC exclusively...so if you are at an AMC you are listening to full racks of AMC DSPs, amps and speakers. I just recalled my favorite quote of the day made by one of the technical directors at QSC after I asked if they supply to IMAX theaters: "We are not in IMAX theaters but we absolutely smoke their performance . . . the comparison isn't even close." He was absolutely dead serious...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerben Van Duyl  /t/1442340/the-stonewater-cinema-build-thread/360#post_23016407


Yes, we have used the Xilica, with good results. We like that unit: affordable, good quality, easy S/W configuration. Since we have brought out the DA-2800DSP amps, we don't need outboard DSP any longer, the DA-2800DSP splits the signal into Bass and Mid/High. On top of that, the DA2800 (with or without the DSP) is a very good amp as well!


Now, for the P610, the P6 are indeed physically the same as any other P6, but in their P610 guise, we allow it to concentrate on Mid/High, by crossing over a fair bit higher than 80Hz, which is the (THX) working range for the P6 that are on surround duties. As the P6's in the P610 are relieved from Mid-Bass duties, they can play louder. The P10 then carries the Bass and Mid-Bass and the whole system can play louder than a P6 crossed over at 80Hz. So the result is a full-range system that can play louder! As a result, folks all over the world are loving their P610...

Thanks for the additional information Gerben. This probably goes a long way in explaining why the mid to upper range was so crisp and clear at reference level when I heard KBlaw2010's system. I even noted in my informal review of his full Procella system just how crystal clear and unstrained the upper range was during the Polar Express demo while all of the low frequency channels were throbbing. I can't wait to be one of the lucky few to love their P610s and the rest of the system!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,160 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG  /t/1442340/the-stonewater-cinema-build-thread/360#post_23016751


As a side-note, AMC theaters uses QSC exclusively...so if you are at an AMC you are listening to full racks of AMC DSPs, amps and speakers. I just recalled my favorite quote of the day made by one of the technical directors at QSC after I asked if they supply to IMAX theaters: "We are not in IMAX theaters but we absolutely smoke their performance . . . the comparison isn't even close." He was absolutely dead serious...

Thanks for the additional information Gerben. This probably goes a long way in explaining why the mid to upper range was so crisp and clear at reference level when I heard KBlaw2010's system. I even noted in my informal review of his full Procella system just how crystal clear and unstrained the upper range was during the Polar Express demo while all of the low frequency channels were throbbing. I can't wait to be one of the lucky few to love their P610s and the rest of the system!

That theater I was talking happened to be an AMC ETX theater. Smoked every IMAX theater I've been to in every aspect of audio quality and performance indeed. Some day I will own a QSC DSP for sure
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,824 Posts
Discussion Starter #388
Not a theater update, but I was cruising through a few threads this morning when the banner ad system on AVS came up with this:



I am very confident that this sponsor is not hitting their target demographic!!!
Anybody else ever get the same banner ad??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,198 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim  /t/1442340/the-stonewater-cinema-build-thread/390#post_23026181


.........That, and JPA's obsession with crochet



Tim

How else is a man supposed to find a pink 2XLTall sweater with flying unicorns in front of a rainbow on the front? I mean, those are hard to find these days



I am generally oblivious to the ads, but the ad for "The Unfinished Man" that pops up from time to time usually catches my eye. I can't figure out what kind of projector that is? Although, I can't seem to find it this morning
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,824 Posts
Discussion Starter #393

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A  /t/1442340/the-stonewater-cinema-build-thread/390#post_23026809


I am generally oblivious to the ads, but the ad for "The Unfinished Man" that pops up from time to time usually catches my eye. I can't figure out what kind of projector that is? Although, I can't seem to find it this morning


Merry Christmas JPA...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
452 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine  /t/1442340/the-stonewater-cinema-build-thread/60#post_22668707


Foamed walls are excellent for energy use reduction, thermal insulation, and air penetration. What most consumers are not told is the most benefit per inch from these products comes in the first 2". After that the benefit per inch falls off a cliff. From an acoustics perspective, fiberglass insulation is far better. (Foam will also couple the interior and exterior walls to each other). When foam is used (for all the right reasons), I suggest no more than two inches. That is followed by fiberglass, isolation clips and HAT channel, then drywall. In a 2x4 framed wall that leaves just over 5.5" of total depth. With two inches of foam, you have enough remaining depth for fiberglass batts...the acoustic wall remains decoupled. FWIW

I hate to chime in on a thread that I've just come across when I know the build is probably too far along to use the suggestions. However...


Closed cell or "2 pound" foam, is usually sold as the better foam because of it's higher R-value, but like any material there are situation when it should be avoided. In this case in favour of open cell (1/2 pound) foam. As Dennis points out the 2 lb sound couples. A cathedral ceiling filled with 2 lb sounds like you are under a tin roof when it's raining! In the same situation with 1/2 lb the rain is just audible. The problem with either foam in the basement is that the walls must not have moisture problems. The 2 lb, being closed cell is a "vapour barrier". As such, if sprayed directly on the concrete, it will try to keep water back. Hydraulic pressure will win. There is a potential for mold. It is best to install tar paper (foam won't stick to plastic) against the wall (shingled up on the back side of a stud wall section before you stand it up) and deal with drainage at the floor by using Delta membrane on the floor covered by T & G plywood plus finish (this also creates a thermal barrier, making the floor warmer). Also, not mentioned in the tour guide is that the 2 lb is less stable, losing about 15% of it's R-value in the first 5 years because the gas in the bubbles expands in the heat and breaks the bubbles. 1/2 lb is open cell and is more stable, so the diminishing difference in R-value between it and 2 lb makes you wonder if it is worth paying the higher price for 2 lb. They both seal air movement. 1/2 pound holds water like a sponge, again creating a potential mold problem if the walls get moisture through the wall. So again tar paper should be used. A proper waterproofing and drainage system on the outside of the foundation wall should of course alleviate water problems and the best solution.


I would ask Dennis of his thoughts about filling the stud space with 1/2 foam as opposed to fiberglass...all wiring, except for the stuff you forgot would be done before the foam is sprayed.


You had a concern about sounds from the 4" drain. Speaking of mass. Cutting the pipe where it comes through the floor and replacing the plastic 90 and pipe with two 45's and pipe both made of cast iron using a rubber Fernco coupling to the plastic and MJ clamps between the pieces of iron will kill most of the noise, then spraying it with 1/2 lb foam will make it barely noticeable. The horizontal needs a 1/4" per foot fall, so start close to the joist at the 45's to gain maximum head space.


The PEX tubing eliminates water hammer, but tends to expand when the hot water starts heating it up. Make sure you dab a bit of silicone caulking between it and anything it gets fastened to or touches. If it goes through a hole, fill the hole around the tube. This will eliminate squeaks.


The 10" flexible heating/ventilation duct should go to a 12" rigid duct with an internal 1" rigid fiberglass liner to kill the sound. This is available from commercial HVAC suppliers. The insulated section should be at least 3' long, 5' is better. If you have ever seen Space Pac A/C; each port has a 3' "sound attenuator" on the end of the 2" duct to deaden the sound. Same idea.


Thank you for defining "IB". Is there some place that this jargon is listed to help us nubies?


Great name! I haven't been able to come up with one yet. So I can't start the build out.
Some have suggested, "The Bomb Shelter", because it has poured concrete walls and ceiling, but it just doesn't have that roll-off-the-tongue sound appeal. I have a 1907 money pit and have been flip flopping between Arts and Craft (which is what the house "kind of" is), Art Nouveau (I love) and Art Deco (the beginning of movie theatres). I too have a file of Deco buildings.
Maybe you'll shift the balance. So the pressure is on!


I promise I won't skip a page on this one.
...have to get back to reading...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
452 Posts
Re your lights in post 64


Look for antique heating grills and grates at antique shops, wreckers, architectural salvagers...Ebay. There were some very beautiful grills that you might be able to incorporate in your back lit lighting.


If you can find a glass artist with a kiln, the art glass can be "slumped" to fit a curve. If you can find one of the starving ones it might not be toooo much!


EDIT: I guess you thought about these sources, as I see in later posts...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
452 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG  /t/1442340/the-stonewater-cinema-build-thread/90#post_22672727



This was one of my favorites:

You are looking for "Chinese Chippendale". popular in the 1920's


It looks like the "X" is bronze. A much warmer and more appealing copper alloy than brass IMHO. Often used as a contrast to the nickel in that period.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
452 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG  /t/1442340/the-stonewater-cinema-build-thread/210#post_22791899


This is not set in stone yet, but currently I have the chair rail height right around 29". Typically speaking, the reason for going with a lower chair rail height is to get acoustic treatments at the point of first reflection, especially for those in the front row whose ears are probably 36 inches off the ground. I might actually put it a bit lower, but having the 29" height allows me to keep the chair rail at the same level the whole way around the room, even in the area above the riser. If I started my chair rail at 24" OC and used a 4" wide chair rail, by the time I factored in the 11.75" riser base I would only have about 10" left under the chair rail. Factor in the height of my base molding and there wouldn't be much left in terms of room for panel molding or anything else.

I don't know where your steps are to get on to the riser. Assuming they are against the wall, your base and chair rail should follow the slope of the 2 steps. This will maintain the chair rail at your chosen height onto the riser. If you keep the rail straight through, it will look like you had a room and later threw in the riser. If you can work in a "stringer"on the wall, even if it is not functional and merely cut to the steps, it will make it easier to fit the base boards. The vertical cuts on the two ends of the stringer would have a height equal to the lower flat part of the chosen base. You would cut the decorative part off a piece of base and miter it to the top of the lower base to run up the slope of the stringer and again miter into the base board on the riser level. The stringer would be thicker material than the base or even 3/4" material furred out to look thicker. The trim would cover the back edge of the furred out wood. This is also how a wainscoting would be dealt with at a staircase. The top and bottom edges of the panels would follow the slope of the stair while maintaining the verticals and grain as plumb.



You would draw one edge of the rail on the wall to find the intersection point for the miters at the top and bottom of the stairs. For the diagonal, measure up from the nose of the step.

[IMG


Uhh...there is a mix of new and 100 year-old wood here (all white oak) and the stain match is good...but apparently not when photographed.



With a 9 - 9' 6" ceiling you would have a 9 1/4" base If your wall with the soffit is closer to 8', drop to a 7 1/4" base. If you have problems finding a base that high, it could be laid on top of a board. In "the day", mouldings, especially base boards were often built up from many pieces of wood. Just avoid a flat joint. "Hide" the joint by accentuating it with an 1/8" reveal. Or use a flat board with the top decorative part only as an add-on.


Unfortunately, the cutter heads listed on that site are for a shaper with a 1/2" or 3/4" arbour. Most professional cabinet shops will have a shaper with a 1 1/4" arbour. The shop may have knives from other jobs to look at, if they run much moulding, otherwise it is $150+ to have them made. And then the set-up fee. If you have a cabinet shop that you work with...you might not get hit with the set fees and simply go on time.


Here is a door casing that would go with the cascade crown you liked.
Doc7.docx 12k .docx file

It is from Brenlo Mouldings, http://www.brenlo.com/ make an account for yourself and look at the historical catelogue under Arts & Crafts
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,824 Posts
Discussion Starter #400

Quote:
Originally Posted by just jim  /t/1442340/the-stonewater-cinema-build-thread/390#post_23118317


Closed cell or "2 pound" foam, is usually sold as the better foam because of it's higher R-value, but like any material there are situation when it should be avoided.... A proper waterproofing and drainage system on the outside of the foundation wall should of course alleviate water problems and the best solution. I would ask Dennis of his thoughts about filling the stud space with 1/2 foam as opposed to fiberglass...all wiring, except for the stuff you forgot would be done before the foam is sprayed.

Hi Jim. Thanks for the information and chiming in on my thread. I'm not exactly sure what post this is in at the moment, but I have pictures showing how my theater walls are built in front of the closed cell spray foam applied to the walls with plenty of air gap. I will indeed be filling the walls with R19 insulation, so there is no contact whatsoever with the closed cell and every other open area will have sound-absorbing fiberglass insulation. As for the drainage, our house is new and has a full weeping tile system with drainage leading to the back yard. All of our downspouts also lead directly into an underground system of pipes and discharged into the back yard woods (on a downslope, I might add). The basement walls are made with 5000 psi concrete which is naturally waterproof, but even then the builder put a rubber membrane on the entire outer perimeter before backfilling. We also had huge storms during the years the basement was completely unfinished and we never saw even one drop of water, so I think we are safe from any water infiltration. The spray foam was being used to maintain consistency of temperature and to act as a vapor barrier for all of the exterior concrete walls, fyi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by just jim  /t/1442340/the-stonewater-cinema-build-thread/390#post_23118317


You had a concern about sounds from the 4" drain. Speaking of mass. Cutting the pipe where it comes through the floor and replacing the plastic 90 and pipe with two 45's and pipe both made of cast iron using a rubber Fernco coupling to the plastic and MJ clamps between the pieces of iron will kill most of the noise, then spraying it with 1/2 lb foam will make it barely noticeable. The horizontal needs a 1/4" per foot fall, so start close to the joist at the 45's to gain maximum head space.


The PEX tubing eliminates water hammer, but tends to expand when the hot water starts heating it up. Make sure you dab a bit of silicone caulking between it and anything it gets fastened to or touches. If it goes through a hole, fill the hole around the tube. This will eliminate squeaks.
I only have mild concerns coming through the 4" drain because it services a part of the house primarily used only by the clothes washer. I figured since it was exposed I would wrap it with MLV FWIW before creating the proper slope with hangers. I have already lowered the pipe the absolute maximum while maintaining slope. Code minimum slope for this size pipe is actually 1/8" per foot, so I am slightly exceeding this range based on the number of feet of slope to the next connection. The water pipes I am just going to use foam pipe wrap and call it a day. However, once the soundproof shell is complete I will be boxing in all the plumbing with its own little sound proof enclosure. This alone should solve any sound issues, the rest is just gravy. This little sound proof enclosure will then be built into the perimeter soffit which will add yet another layer of sound protection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by just jim  /t/1442340/the-stonewater-cinema-build-thread/390#post_23118317


The 10" flexible heating/ventilation duct should go to a 12" rigid duct with an internal 1" rigid fiberglass liner to kill the sound. This is available from commercial HVAC suppliers. The insulated section should be at least 3' long, 5' is better. If you have ever seen Space Pac A/C; each port has a 3' "sound attenuator" on the end of the 2" duct to deaden the sound. Same idea.

The proper size is 8" for the amount of return that I actually need. 10" is as big as I could fit through the space I have to work with. Perhaps a 12" rigid would fit, but it would have to be squished. I don't have this pictured yet, but the duct rises vertically off my HVAC unit about 8 feet, goes through a rigid 90 and then travels 8 feet into the room before hitting another rigid 90 and into a lined 14x14 return air box. The original size of the return air box was 10x10 for an 8" flex pipe, so you can see both the size of the flex and return duct were oversized to distribute the same amount of air flow over a wider surface area. Unfortunately since everything is still so open, I can't tell what the final result will be. I can say that it is tough to hear any air turbulence, even with putting my ear right by the return air grate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by just jim  /t/1442340/the-stonewater-cinema-build-thread/390#post_23118317


Thank you for defining "IB". Is there some place that this jargon is listed to help us nubies?
Not that I am aware of. Just a lot of reading through different threads should help. Thanks again for your post.
 
381 - 400 of 3235 Posts
Top