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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Got TR!!!??? :D:D:D

Lone Survivor 6hz Chopper Scene with a HoverEZe

Tactile Response in the Home Theater environment seems to really be catching on these days around here which is awesome!! Really glad to see it, as it can make such an amazing difference in the movie watching and bass experience IMO!!

There are lots of ways of getting great TR in your system these days and there is already a lot of amazing TR setups and systems around here and continuing to grow, especially lately. Still not quite sure how much interest there will be for a thread like this, but I thought maybe a thread dedicated to Tactile Response and related might be fun and helpful.

So, a place to post your TR system pics, videos, share info and experiences, ask questions about it and/or offer advice, as well as even share your TR journey if you want ....that sort of thing.

Anything Tactile or related (or even if it strays off course a bit like most threads do at times) is cool by me, whether it’s VNF (Very Near Field) Subs, NF (Near Field) Subs, or even FF (FarField) Subs if you think they really bring on the TR, Transducers or Crowson Motion Actuators, Shakers, HoverEZe (not to be confused with BOSS, but was previously referred to as HoverBoss, and is a completely different beast that is sealed by Tubes of Hover (and is NOT open baffle), invented / designed by Longeze), or even D-box (although I don’t know much at all about this last one). Even fans for wind effect on ULF content like a few members are doing around here (Archaea, Nalleh, SOWK), or wind from ported subs of course. Pressure, Concrete Floors, Suspended Floors, Risers (any kind ...Subwoofer Risers, Normal Traditional Risers, HoverEZe Risers, or other), Seating, VibSensor stuff, you name it. Or heck, even if someone wants to strap on one of those TR Bass Vests that were joked about a while back, I'd love to hear about it!! :D LOL So, basically anything TR related with your system that helps bring you more enjoyment from these movie soundtracks (or whatever media your into).

If you want to share your pics, thoughts, story / journey and whatever info you want to include about how and why you got into it, or even just your love and passion for TR, that’s cool too, feel free!! All levels and systems are welcome, from ultra noobs to seasoned vets with lots of experience, and all in between. I’m cool with whatever you want to share and whatever kind & brand of subs or MBMs (DIY, ID or other ... (ported, sealed, horn, etc)), as well as any other TR components.

I know there are a few other threads around here (and really good ones, the threads like dominguez1's “Near Field Ported MBM Thread" and "ULF thread", as well as (coolrda’s "VibSensor Thread") etc, as well as "show off your system and subs threads", but thought there might be room for one more related thread geared towards Tactile Response.

Also, I'd just like to acknowledge that these guys did so much for TR around here with all their research and experimenting. I’m truly grateful they shared it with us all!!! I'd like to personally say THANK YOU!!! I feel like I learned a lot from these guys and they are a big part of what got me into Tactile Response. Unfortunately, I think TR is still kind of a new concept around here to most but is gaining ground lately like I mentioned above and more people are getting a taste of how great and important it can be, which is fantastic. Even with all the great findings that Dom and others discovered and shared, I think there it still a lot more that can be learned about TR and applied. Hopefully we can all continue to learn, discover new and better ways of getting TR, and enjoy it even more in the Home Theater environment that we all love so much!!!

IMHO, great Tactile Response is only a part of the equation though for getting the best Home Theater experience possible for movie watching, but is a HUGE part of that equation and can make all the difference in the world for more realism and that truly EPIC experience if you're into that. I’m really happy to see that TR is catching on around here more now and just how important TR can be. Whether you like just a little or a LOT of it, it can make a tremendous difference IME/O!!!

So that's about it for an intro I think. Here are a few of links to posts within the TR thread that may be very useful and of interest (post #'s 2) and also some links to some of those fantastic threads that I mentioned up above that might be useful as well, if anyone needs them, that are full of great information regarding TR and BASS.

Links to other TR related threads:
The ULF Thread (great thread with a lot of TR talk and info along the way)
Your Home Theater ULF Score

Shakers - Simple Hookup Guide (great for helping get your TTs and shakers up and running)
Shakers - Simple/Cheap Hookup - Visual Guide

The Nearfield MBM TR Thread (killer thread for that midbass TR and chest slam)
Nearfield Ported MBM for Increased Mid-Bass Tactile Response

The Crowson MA Thread (yup ..gotta love them Crowson MAs!!!)
The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion...

The VibSensor Thread (Great thread as well for checking your TR, fine-tuning, etc)
The VibSensor Accelerometer Test Thread

An RPI based DIY Vibration Meter (better than using the phone if you don't mind DIY)
An rpi based DIY Vibration meter

Dummies Guide for building a Viberry (a new device for accurately measuring TR by our genius programmer 3ll3d00d)
Measure TR - The Viberry

The BOSS Thread (again, not to be confused with HoverEZe)
The Hideaway Theater

BEQ for Games. If you're a gamer and want to apply some Bass EQ to help restore some of that low end that may have been filtered out/rolled off, then check it out.
Bass EQ for Filtered Games

And of course, the BassEQ Thread for Filtered Movies that helps utilize your awesome ULF TR and BASS rig to its fullest in FULL BANDWIDTH GLORY on almost ALL movies. BassEQ is a TOTAL GAME CHANGER!!!
Bass EQ for Filtered Movies

Also, here are a few common acronyms that may be helpful when talking about all this stuff.

Common Acronyms:
TR = Tactile Response (of course :)) - A physical response to your seat and/or body from a mechanical or acoustical device.
FR = Frequency Response - The dependence on signal frequency of the output-input ratio.
Hz = Hertz - or cycles per second.
MV = Main Volume - Often used to relate level in relation to reference level 0 (-10MV for example)
SPL = Sound Pressure Level
ULF = Ultra Low Frequency
- 1-30hz ( ~17hz and under, as far as the ULF “Wobble” TR is concerned).
VLF = Very Low Frequency - Under 10hz
LF = Low Frequency - 30-300hz. (20-40hz, at least probably referred to in this thread).
LFE = Low Frequency Effect - 120hz and under.
MB = Mid Bass - 40-300hz (45-80hz most vital chest punch range).
BEQ = Bass EQ - Filters applied to restore rolled off / filtered frequencies in movies (or even games & music).
FF = Far Field - A subwoofer / speaker farther away from the listening position.
NF = Near Field - A subwoofer / speaker closer to the listening position.
VNF = Very Near Field - A subwoofer / speaker very close to the listening position (no farther than 3" away from seat-back).
MBM = Mid Bass Module - A subwoofer / speaker that produces frequencies in the MidBass area (~ 40-300hz)
TT = Tactile Transducer - A device “or shaker” that produces a physical response.
MA = Motion Actuator (like Crowson MA) - A mechanical device that produces motion.
MMA = Mega Motion Actuator - Same as MA above, but on a MEGA scale :)
BK = ButtKicker - A Tactile Transducer that uses a piston to create a physical response.
BBK = Bottomless ButtKicker - A modified version of the BK LFE to allow for more piston travel without bottoming
BB = BossBack - A speaker driver mounted to a seat-back not sealed, but open baffle.
MBK = Mid Back Kicker or Mega Back Kicker - ButtKicker LFE mounted to a seat-back.
MBB = Mega BossBack - A speaker driver not sealed + ButtKicker LFE (BB+MBK) mounted to a seat-back
CD = Cone Down - A driver mounted facing down.
CU = Cone Up - A driver mounted facing up.
ST = Stacked Tube - The stacking of tubes on top of one another.
HC = HoverColumn - The column of air trapped inside the middle of the innertube.
TOH = Tubes of Hover - Tubes around the drivers that create the Hover. in a HoverEZe
HeZe = HoverEZe - A hover platform suspended on inner-tubes enclosing / sealing the drivers
that produces motion from pneumatic compression within the HoverColumn(HC).
HCU or HeZeCU = HoverEZe Cone Up - A sealed Hover platform with the Cones of the drivers facing up instead of down (the traditional way).
HSTCU or HeZeSTCU = HoverEZe Stacked Tube Cone Up - A Stacked Tube Hover Platform with the Cones of the drivers facing up.
HeZeBack = HoverEZeSeatBack - A sealed hover platform on an inner-tube enclosing / sealing the driver mounted on the seat's back.
BOSS = Baffle Open Sub Shaker - Not to be confused with HoverEZe that is suspended and sealed by Tubes of Hover, whereas BOSS is open baffle on a suspended platform by isolators that uses a speaker driver to produce a physical response.
CL = Canti-Levered - Positioned behind the seating.
HCL = HoverEZe Canti-Levered - A Hover platform with the drivers positioned behind the seating.
FT = Fat Tube - Fat sized tubes used for HoverEZe.
PV = Particle Velocity - The velocity of a particle in a medium as it transmits a wave of pressure.
VS = VibSensor - An accelerometer inside your PE (Personal Electronic Device) used to measure and record Tactile Response.
TS = Time Stamp - A particular section / segment of time of a movie.
LS = Low Shelf - A shelving filter that boosts or attenuates the low end of the frequency spectrum.
HS = High Shelf - A shelving filter that boosts or attenuates the high end of the frequency spectrum.
NHS = Negative High Shelf - A shelving filter that attenuates the high end of the frequency spectrum (often referred to when using a negative value).

Any suggestions for this thread are welcomed. Enjoy!!! Hopefully this can be a super cool thread for Tactile Response :):cool::cool::) Also, be sure to check out post #2 next for a reference guide to lots of information regarding TR (FAQs, Videos, Useful Links, Time Stamps for Movie Demo for some of the best bass and TR, and more).
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
This post #2 will be used to cover most of the important information throughout this TR thread, without you having to search through lots of pages to find it, as this thread has grown to be pretty good sized. Of course, there will also be links to posts within the thread for more detailed information whenever need be, for it to be more complete. The post will be divided up into sections that include (in order):

-Frequently Asked Questions
-TR Curves - Gear and Settings used by various members of the thread
-TR Journey / Story Links from various members from the thread
-Useful Links - Tape and Tubes for HoverEZe, HoverEZe Drivers, Buttkicker Mods, etc.
-Subwoofer Positioning and TR Devices Overview
-Movie Clip "Time Stamps" - For some Killer BASS and TR scenes


I hope this post turns out to be a helpful resource for newcomers, as well as the regulars of the thread, if they need it. This section is still a work in progress, and I'll continue to add to it as we go. As always, suggestions are welcomed on things to include and how to make it better :)

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Frequently Asked Questions:
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Here’s a list of questions that get asked frequently in this thread and have been covered in detail all along the way, but is spread out pretty good and is sometimes hard to find since the thread is starting to get pretty long. Rather than having to dig like crazy or even ask a question that has maybe been asked again and again, these may help answer your question(s) quickly and easily. But if you still need to ask for more detail or specifics for whatever the reason, feel free. But, this should cover a LOT of what is asked about on a pretty continuous basis. I tried to give short (but hopefully decently complete) answers on most of them, and / or also created links to where the topic was discussed in full detail within the thread (or even elsewhere if need be). I hope this helps. Please feel free to add questions and answers to the list, or suggestions in general to help make it better. Thanks!

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First let's start with …..What is a HoverEZe exactly and how does it work?
HoverEZe - Currently the BEST TR device ever developed for TR lovers of all levels, by none other than our very own AVS forum member and TR lover himself, Longeze!!!! :D:D:D

If you are still new to a HoverEZe and wonder what it is exactly, it's when you put tubes around the drivers in a platform / riser (that the seating sits on) and creates a seal between the baffle that the driver is mounted to and the other side (floor, plywood, disc, etc), creating a very small “Hover Column” that pressurizes and “moves” the seating (and you) in amazing, super realistic, and natural ways. The better the seal, the better it works, as it's basically creating an air pump within the Hover Column, with the tubes acting as the springs, to create the TR from the source signal.

Here's a few videos of the HoverEZe in action from various members of the thread for a visual of the kind of TR that it's capable of dleivering:

m0j0’s HoverEZe on a clip from Avengers Endgame, showing some pretty crazy TR:

Nalleh’s HoverEZe on a clip from Wonder Woman Bell Tower, showing some insane 3.5hz TR at about the 14 second mark:

SBuger’s HoverEZe on a clip from Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle, showing some pretty fun TR:

Magly’s HoverEZe showing some insane ULF TR from the song Infrasonic Death that goes down to 1hz, from his DIY seat, with enough force to even launch a laptop completely airborne from the seat surface from super low hz:

Ok, so if that wasn't enough TR video clips for you guys on what the HoverEZe can do, here is one more from m0j0 again ( ...cuz his TR is just so awesome that he gets not just one video, but two :p), because it's so intense here that the TR makes his cheeks shake like mad in this clip from Batman vs Superman, at about the 18 to 24 second mark. Check it out guys ...it's some EPIC CHEEK SHAKING TR!!!! :D:p:D If that's not some crazy awesome Tactile Response right there, then I don't know what is ;):)

^^^^ Obviously, these clips show a ton of TR, but if this is too much for some, it can be tuned in for whatever level of TR one desires (from super subtle across the board, to just straight up ridiculous).

Are there any guides for HoverEZe?
Yes, the HeZe Guide guide can be found HERE

Should I go with a Cone Down (CD), Cone Up (CU), or even a Dual Opposed (DO) HoverEZe?
As the name indicates, CD is with the cone of the driver mounted facing down and magnet up, the opposite for CU, and then drivers mounted top and bottom with their cones facing each other in a DO config. Which one you choose to go with, will probably be determined by how much room you have under your seating, and / or how high you are willing to sit up off of the floor.

Cone Down is very good and is how it started out (and what most use), but Cone Up does improve the efficiency of the HoverEZe, by having less weight to move you and your seating, as the drivers “and” platform that houses them are not part of the weight with this config. Lighter = more efficient. Also, at least in my opinion, I think that the drivers firing up into the piece of plywood that the seating is sitting on, makes a bit of a difference as well.

The drawback to a Cone Up config (at least for most, unless you do some sort of a NallehFold design (air pressure from the drivers not under the seating, but channeled to up underneath the seat)), is that the drivers need to go under your seating, plus the tubes and plywood sheet on top of that (that the seating sits on), can add up pretty quick, but is worth it if you can live with this. I actually don’t mind sitting up a little higher in my HT room, so it works well for me for example.

Then there is Dual Opposed. IF one has enough room under their seating to fit the magnets for the upper drivers that are facing down into the Cone Up Drivers, then this can work great, like what m0j0 does with the DO HoverEZe for example.

A reply I made to a CD and CU question within the thread that you may find useful as well, can be found HERE.

What is the latest and greatest version of HoverEZe?
ATM, I’d say definitely the Cone Up or Dual Opposed version. To take it even further, some of us run multiple CU HeZe's in a stacked config for the ultimate of what HoverEZe has to offer. As an example, a few of us are running 3 HeZes on one seat's platform, as a Cone Up HeZe (as a base platform that the seat sits on), then an additional CU HeZeUnderButt (HUB - that goes right under the actual seat cushion itself), as well as a 3rd HeZe on the SeatBack (referred to as HeZeBack).

For a row of seats, should I do one big riser, or go with single seat platforms for HoverEZe?
It depends. As with everything, there are pros and cons to each. The latest trend tends to be single seat platforms, for various reasons. Here’s a list of reasons (in no order), that may appeal to some, to go with single platforms vs one big platform.

1). Lighter and easier to build and move into position etc (or tweak if one is into experimenting etc, as it’s easier to work with as well).
2). If the person in the seat next to you shifts their weight in the seat etc, the motion won’t affect your seat since it's on a different platform.
3). Depending how all single platform HoverEZes are setup and wired, it can give separate control for intensity, and even curves, for each seat.

What are the best or most common / popular amps for HoverEZe?
The most common may not be the absolute best, but work very well for most of us. The most common are definitely the iNuke amps and may be the best bang for the buck. The iNuke NU (the older versions before they redesigned them), the NX version (redesigned NU), in the 1000, 3000, or 6000 series work fantastic. Also, they are available in the DSP version as well, that include a “D” in the model #, such as NX6000D for example. Most use a miniDSP to set up their HoverEZe instead of the DSP in the amp, but if there is a need to limit the watts to your drivers, then you'll need the DSP version of the amp.

What fans are recommended to replace the noisy stock fans on the iNuke amps and are there any guides?
A popular choice is the Noctua NF-A8 FLX 80mm and can be found HERE There is a pretty good guide on how to do the fan mod HERE

What is the best way to wire drivers for my HoverEZe?
Most drivers ran in a HoverEZe config will handle their RMS max watts rating no problem, with the very small sealed “Hover Columns” that are created within the tube enclosures. One of the most common questions seems to be, “how do I wire 4x 4ohm JBL 12” drivers on my 3000 or 6000 iNuke amp?". The RMS rating on one channel of an iNuke6000 (or a bridged 3000) is about 1200w RMS at 4ohm. Max RMS wattage on the common JBL driver that is used in HoverEZe is around 250-300w, so it works perfectly running 4x 4ohm drivers wired in series / parallel for a 4ohm load. The following wiring diagram shows how to do this …




I am unsure about how to wire 4 JBL GX-1200s to one channel of my Behringer NX6000. I understand I should wire them in series, as illustrated in this diagram. Both the positive and negative wires from the amplifier are plugged into the same positive or negative terminal for 2 different drivers. I have normal 16-gauge speaker wire with 2 wires per end. How does one connect the same wire to 2 different drivers, as shown in the linked diagram? Is it done by using a wire nut or SpeakOn terminal to attach multiple wires together?
A great explanation that can be found in this post HERE (thanks m0j0!)

What are the best drivers for HoverEZe?
12” to 18” drivers seem to be the most common choice and work fantastic in a HoverEZe, but smaller or even larger drivers can be used. The JBL CS1214 / GX1200 (same driver, just different dust cover), which are 12” drivers, are the most common for HoverEZE, but a list of drivers that could be amazing as well, with equal or even better specs to the JBL can be found HERE . The link is also in the "Useful Links" section in the post under Drivers for HoverEZe. Driver list Courtesy of Nallah (Thanks!!)

Is there something magical about the 12” JBL driver that so many are using for HoverEZe?
The 12" JBL drivers just seem to work so well in a HoverEZe. There are other drivers that can work great too or even better, but these do the trick phenomenally well for TR at all frequencies in a HeZe or HeZeBack, wire well with their ohms (especially 4 per channel on the super popular iNuke 6k or bridged 3K amps for example), and are reasonably priced (although they can be real cheap on sale day. Unfortunately the big JBL sales are not as common these days, but still do happen from time to time for $29). Still, they can sometimes be found for around $50 here and there (eBay, etc).

Where and when are the sales on the super popular 12” JBL drivers used for HoverEZe?
Best Buy will usually have sales on Black Friday, but can happen at other times as well. Keep and eye on this thread HERE (link needs activated after I track it down), as someone in there will usually post about it.

12” vs 15” vs 18” (or even the smaller 6”, 8”, or 10”) drivers in a HoverEZe, what is better and what should I go with?
12” drivers in a HoverEZe are the most popular, but bigger drivers, if you don’t mind “usually having to pay more for them”, and most importantly, whether or not one can make the bigger drivers fit without interference (under your seating or wherever it’s located, since mounting depth is usually quite a bit more the bigger the drivers get, compared to 12” drivers) can be great. Smaller drivers under 12”, like the 10s, 8s, or even 6s etc, can work well for locations under your seat cushion area (HeZeButt or maybe even in some HeZeBacks) for example, where there may not be much room to work with.

What tubes should I use on HoverEZe?
Lots of different tubes have been used with success, but here is a list of the most common ones …

FAT Tubes
Maxxis FAT (26” and 27.5”)
Mongoose FAT (20” to 27”)
Various brands of other FAT tubes (16" and up) FeNIX 16x3" etc

Normal Sized Tubes
BELL (all sizes …12” and up)
Goodyear (all sizes …12’ and up)

** For a list with links to some of these, check out the “Useful Links” section under Tubes for HoverEZe.

What size tube would fit around two 12” drivers side by side in a HoverEze?
A Maxxis FAT 26” or 27.5” works great for this.

How much PSI should I run in my tubes for HoverEZe?
This will vary with tube type, type of HoverEZe platform, number of drivers, weight of the seating, as well as weight & number of HeZe riders, etc. Usually anywhere from 2-5 lbs per tube works pretty well and is a good starting point. Longeze has put together a guide on how to figure what will probably be best (or a great place to start), if you want to get really specific and more scientific about it. Here's a post down below about it from our very own expert and Hover Designer, “Longeze”:

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What follows is a crude approximation method to find an initial inflation value. While not technically correct, for most people it will work well enough to bring their systems nearly into balance, for best performance:

1st Weigh the moving part of your platform including your seat(s) & usual riders. Use a couple scales & add the values.

2nd Find the total planar surface area for ALL your tubes. To find that, use the calculator linked below. To use it, if you have a 16" tube for example, try entering values of "1" for "r"(the radius of your tube body), & "8" for "R"(the overall radius from the center to the outside of your entire tube. Take the "Area" result, divide that by 2, & multiply that value times the number of tubes you have, to get your total planar tube surface area. Torus Calculator at Calculator Alligator

What we're doing is finding out how much area the tube surface area becomes once it's inflated and squished 1/2 flat by your weight.

3rd Now you know the total sq in of the tubes, so divide the Wt in #1 by area in #2.

4th Now you know the PSI (pounds per square inch) being applied to your tubes from the force of gravity by your platform. If you inflate your tubes to that same PSI value, you'll be bringing the forces of the system into balance to create a "neutrally buoyant" platform, which is the best place to start. You can go firmer or softer from there, but that was the initial theoretical ideal, and the objective for the HoverEzE design.

The "ideal" is around 1 to 1, ie 1psi load to be balanced by 1 psi in your tubes. That's why guys seem to like the feel around that value.

What you DON'T want, is to end up with a platform loading value that's way out of wack, like >5psi or 0.25psi or even less. IF your value is too high, then you need to add one or more tubes & recalculate, until you find the # and size of tubes that brings things back into balance - within reason. Conversely, if the psi # was on the low side, you'd want to remove some tubes or make them smaller.

As Sbuger says: "Find what feels the best!"
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Can I stack tubes for HoverEZe?
Yes, this works great for a little different feel and more excursion if one wants that. There are a few of us that stack tubes with great success.
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What is the best way to have air control / access for the Tubes of Hover in a HoverEZe?
Extension hoses and various fittings can be used to make adjusting and / or maintaining air pressure within your tubes easy. Nalleh and
DesertDog have a list of parts and guides on how they did this on their HoverEZe systems. Nalleh's guide can be found HERE and DesertDog's guide HERE. The links to these, as well a more links with parts, can be found in this post under the "Useful Links" section under Air Extensions for HoverEZe Tubes:

Do the Tubes of Hover need to be sealed in a HoverEZe?
Yes, and the better the seal, the better it will work. Think of it as an air pump. If there is a leak, it's not going to be as efficient.

What is the best way to seal the Tubes of Hover?
Most use double sided sticky tape to create the seal between the tubes and plywood, thin piece of wood, acrylic discs, painters plastic, or whatever is being used.

Is there a recommended sealant (rather than using double sided tape) for sealing your tubes to your HoverEZe platform (and other surfaces like painters plastic, disc, etc)?
DesertDog has had great success with Dynaflex White Premium Elastomeric Exterior/Interior Window, Door and Trim Sealant. A link to his post about it can be found HERE (Thanks DesertDog!)

Does the HoverDisc mod for sealing the tubes in a cone down HoverEze affect performance compared to using say, painters plastic?
m0j0 has tried both and and said he didn’t think it performed any better or worse than painters plastic, but it's durable, quiet, and reusable, so that for him are its main selling points. Here is a little extra detail from one of his posts on HoverDisc ...

"HoverDisc is basically acrylic or plexiglass used to seal the bottom of the tube in a Hover setup. There are other types of material that can be used for the same purpose, with painters plastic being a popular, low cost option. There doesn't seem to be any performance difference with the sealing materials tested, so the point was that the main advantage to using plexiglass/acrylic is that it is re-usable and doesn't make any noise (where with plastic you might get some occasional sounds coming from the plastic itself during movement)."

Is HoverDisc targeted towards a carpeted floor? Or is it useful for hard floors too?
From several posters, it seems to benefit all floor types, carpet, hardwood, tile, etc.

Can the HoverEZe Tubes be sealed to carpet?
If your carpet and pad are decently thick, it can make a pretty good seal, but can still leak and not be quite as efficient, so it's still recommended to use one of the other methods.

I am worried about the tubes of Hover not being able to support the full weight of my big riser and seating loaded with people. Will the tubes support it?
A few of us have had MASSIVE HoverEze platforms loaded with several heavy drivers (including 18” drivers), plus 3-4 seats loaded on it, with an overall weight of easily over 1000lbs and has never been a problem. The air filled tubes will hold a LOT of weight with no problem.

What curves should I use on my HoverEZe?
Curves are very important on the HoverEZe, but the best curve for someone on their rig could be dependent on a number of variables, including type of HoverEZe, content (movie or music), whether or not one uses BEQ on their movies, etc, and most importantly, personal preference for the best balanced feel you can get across the frequency band, or band that the HeZe is ran in. A great place to start is with aron7awol’s 6db oct TR curves HERE. You can also try curves that various members in this thread use as well. Links to Aaron's, as well as the others, can be found in the "TR Curves Section" in this post. Ultimately, it’ll come down to what feels best to you on YOUR own rig, but will be a great place to start. You'll just have to experiment with it.

Do I need to implement a HPF (High Pass Filter / Low Cut Off) on a HoverEZe?
No need for a HPF on a HoverEZe. The low end extension is one of the best qualities of a HoverEZe and we don’t want to limit it in any way. In fact, it’s encouraged to even apply a Low Shelf filter to help level out the low end rolloff that most amps have, plus adding extra LS (Low Shelf) filters on top of that for even more low end extension is common practice.

What is the purpose of using a REW measurement on a HoverEze?
There are a couple reasons actually. One is that HoverEze can generate a fair bit of SPL (see next 2 FAQs below this one for more on HoverEze SPL), depending on many variables (room size, level and curves that are ran on the HoverEze, etc). This can be measured with a REW sweep + mic, just like a normal subwoofer. The other reason is that a REW sweep (with a VibSensor instead of a mic) can also be used to measure TR.

Do you need to reduce levels on your “normal subs” after installing a HoverEze?
Since HoverEze can produce SPL (a little to a lot, depending on many variables) **See next question below for more on this topic, it is highly likely that levels of your normal subs will have to be altered, at least somewhat, to accommodate the SPL being generated by the HoverEze, to keep your nice FR. A more in-depth post on this can be found HERE

Does HoverEZe produce SPL?
Yes, but how much just depends on levels and curves ran to achieve desired TR results, as well as room size, room nodes, etc. On my particular system and room, I get crazy SPL down to under 5hz from the HoverEZe, but that is specific to me. In fact, below 25hz, I don’t even really need my normal / traditional subs to contribute (although I still sometimes have them do that a little bit), as I pretty much have all I need with the levels and crazy rising house curve that I run on my HoverEZe’s to get what I want out of it TR wise. Now, above 25hz, I do use my normal subs to help fill in. I have heard of others that get a lot of SPL from their HoverEZe’s as well, but the majority seem to not get a ton of SPL from theirs. So, like I was saying, it just depends, some will get just a little bit of SPL, while others like me, get LOTS of SPL down to 5hz or so.

How high will my HoverEZe platform be?
Depending on what type of platform you go with (Cone Up or Cone Down, and what size of drivers and their mounting depth), as well as your tubes (size of tubes and stacked or not) will determine the height of your “actual” HoverEZe platform. Also to be noted and needs to be taken into consideration, is how much space is available under your particular seats, to clear the magnets of the drivers etc, if running a Cone Down HoverEZe.

Should I use just Tubes alone on the HoverEZe, or should I use some form of Isolators in addition?
In most cases, if you can, use tubes only, as the tubes are your “springs” for the HoverEZe. Iso’s limit travel and change your spring rate. When using Tubes of Hover only, try to make sure the tubes reach close to the outside edges of your platform on all sides the best your can, to help with stabilization. But if one must use iso's in addition to the Tubes of Hover to help with stabilization, they can be used with either the rubber isolators like the Hi-Fi Hudsons, actual springs, or pressure-less tennis balls. Some folks will still put on Hudson Hi-Fi isolators (that don’t touch the ground) just for safety measures, just incase they have a tube blowout. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of that happening yet though.

Does HoverEze feel wobbly, like climbing onto a waterbed?
HoverEze can feel wobbly, especially when getting on and off of the platform / into and out of your seating. How wobbly, will depend on how you have it setup with tube positioning, size of your platform, and if you are using extra isolators such as pressure-less tennis balls or springs in addition, etc (which is usually only recommended in "most" cases if you need extra stability, as it can limit TR travel / excursion).

What is the difference between HoverEZe and BOSS?
HoverEZe is an entirely different beast compared to BOSS. The HoverEZe generates its TR movement pneumatically from air pressure from the drivers that are sealed within the Tubes of Hover “column enclosures” (between driver and solid surface), whereas the BOSS uses the driver’s moving mass for TR movement and is Open Baffle, making it more "shaker like", as the names implies from the BOSS acronym (Baffle Open Sub Shaker).

Would 4x 12” drivers for HoverEze on one single seat recliner be overkill?
No such thing as overkill in this thread :p. Seriously though, IMO, no it is not overkill. 4x 12” JBL drivers for one seat (especially in a Cone Up Config) can be insanely good for stability, balance, and overall power (allowing you to dial in basically whatever TR you want across the frequency band). Plus, 4 of them are perfect to be powered by 1 channel of an iNuke 6000 or a bridged 3000 in a series / parallel config for 4 ohm.

Do I need a miniDSP for my HoverEZe?
A miniDSP is not an absolute “must” to run a HoverEZE, but it is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED to tune it to one's preferences (curves for the slope of the TR across the frequency band from a combo of HPF (High Pass Frequency) roll off, LSs (Low Shelf) or HSs (High Shelf), Peak Filters, etc), and to get the most out of it, as well as being able to apply BEQ (Bass EQ) for filtered movies to restore the ULF that’s been filtered out on a large majority of them below 25-30hz.

Are there any recommended MiniDSP compressor settings for HoverEze?
Courtesy of m0j0, he shares his settings HERE

What should my "Filter / crossover" and Parametric EQ" settings be in the iNuke 1000D / 3000D / 6000D if I'm using a MiniDSP 2x4HD for PEQ and crossover? Should the INuke's PEQ and filter be bypassed since I'm using MiniDSP?
Yes, bypass all “crossover / filters etc” settings in the amp, and just use the miniDSP. You can, and what most of us do in the iNuke DSP version of the amp (since the phase is backwards on these amps), is invert the phase and save it, that way it’s done. You could do it in the miniDSP, but is best to just set it in the amp, that way it’s done and correct from the get go, then you can flip it in the miniDSP it if it needs to be inverted when tuning.

Can I use two miniDSP 2x4HDs for more outputs?
Yes, and there is an excellent guide from Desert Dog for setting up two of them HERE (link also in the “Useful Links” section under Signal/Tuning, etc)

How do you align a HoverEze with a regular subwoofer?
Negative Delay (ND) will probably be your best bet for aligning TR between the two, so that they combine constructively and feel synced. FR between the two needs to be kept in mind as well. **Refer to the question below for an extensive explanation on Negative Delay.

What is Negative Delay (ND) and why do I need it?
This topic seems to confuse a lot of folks, but is not too bad once you can get your head wrapped around what is going on with it. Basically, Negative Delay means a device firing before another device (i.e: your Crowson MAs firing before your subwoofers), and works well to help time align group delay between the two, so as to help you feel it at the same time that you hear it, as well as combine TR movement constructively between the two as well. One would think that a TR device would need to fire later than a subwoofer to be in sync, since a TR device like the MAs, Buttkickers, etc are directly connected to your seat, whereas the sub’s TR is not directly coupled and is transferred acoustically, but seems to be the opposite, from what many of us have found. The way this is accomplished is to set whatever TR device you want more Negative Delay on (Crowson MAs vs Subwoofers for example), is to set the distance to a greater value in your AVR for the MAs vs the subs.

For more in depth information on this from a post within the thread, check out this post HERE For another great post for understanding ND and applying it, check out this post (courtesy of Nalleh) HERE

Has anyone used test tones from say ...5hz to 60hz and calibrated your tactile transducer (or HoverEze), leveling any highs out and increasing lows?
Yes, this can be done with a VibSensor + REW frequency sweep, test tones, White Noise 0-50hz, and even a movie clip that has been graphed out, to compare the VS reading, to get as close as possible to the response, or even create a rising TR curve, and of course, see if you have any big peaks and / or dips in the TR response from the sweep or white noise.

The TR and VibSensor threads are pretty big, but there are some examples of this spread throughout both.

Another thing to keep in mind about TR peaks and dips from your TR devices, is that room correction could be causing some of this, if you don’t take measures to give your TR devices an untouched signal.

I tested the HoverEze with a 15hz test tone and i can feel the vibration. I tried it with 10hz and the vibration is very weak. I only have a single seat recliner and space for 1 driver. Would changing the driver to a better one solve the problem?
It may help if your driver is not very capable, but depending on what amp you are running, if you are not running an amp roll off fix on it (to keep the low end from dropping off so much), this could help a lot. For example, the DSP iNukes need a LS @ 10hz/+4.4db/0.5Q filter applied in the minDSP to correct the rolloff down to 5hz or so. This should definitely help, to keep the 15hz and 10hz feeling more "even" in intensity level. This becomes more important as you drop under 10hz, and is why a lot of us run a House Curve / Slope (like a 6db/oct slope), and/ or even more LS low end lifts added to that, to try to keep all frequencies feeling more even in intensity as the frequencies go lower.

Aarons’s post is a good place to start for amp roll-offs, as well as curves HERE

What is a HoverEZeBack (or HeZeBack)?
It’s a driver mounted to your seatback, with a tube that seals it, working like a normal Cone Up HoverEZe that’s under your seat, just mounted on the seatback instead, firing directly into your back. These work fantastic in combination with a normal style HoverEZe under the seating. Some run the HeZeBack with no tube and just in open baffle, in which case would be called a BossBack, as BOSS is open baffle. Some also run it with the drivers firing directly into the padding that is up against the back of the seat, simi-sealing it. Depending on how well it seals itself with body weight and the padding itself, or even with a tube and no padding covering it, it can be referred to as more of a DI (Direct Injection) approach, bringing more PV (Particle Velocity).

Are there any build guides for HeZeBack?
These are becoming more popular all the time and for good reason, as they are amazing and a heck of an addition to the traditional way of running HoverEZe under the seating and compliment each other VERY well for a more complete TR experience. The HeZeBack has been done probably 4-5 different ways; sealed internally within the seatback cavity itself (with or without a tube), or even externally on the outside of the seatback with a tube, or as open baffle, which would then be called a BossBack. Here are a few links to builds that have been done along the way in the thread to give you an idea:

HeZeBack builds for normal style HT type seats:
SBuger: HERE is a post with the 3 different versions that I’ve tried.
Nalleh: HERE
m0j0: HERE
Mangrove Jack: HERE - DI (Direct Injection) HeZeBack.
Magly: HERE
LastButNotLeast: HERE
Carp: HERE
GeoJustGeo: HERE
** There are more as well spread throughout the thread.

HeZeBack for DIY seat builds as well:
**Coming soon …need to track them down and activate the links.

SBuger: HERE
Mangrove Jack: HERE
m0j0: HERE
Magly: HERE
Russell Burrows: HERE

Can I retain the same volume on the HoverEze, regardless of the volume of the volume of the main speakers and subwoofers?
This can be done with an Oppo Bluray player for example, via its analog subout (which doesn’t affect the HDMI to the AVR). A more in-depth post about it can be found HERE

Can I run Buttkickers with my HoverEZe?
Yes, many of us run BK LFEs (or some run the Advance version) in addition to our HoverEZes, and can work very well together if set up to do so, with correct phase, levels etc.

What is the best way / location to mount Buttkickers?
Opinions may vary, but from my experience with BK LFEs, I’ve found that directly mounted towards the back of the seat, or even behind the seating as Canti-Levered works fantastic, as well as directly mounted to the seatback itself for a more "direct feel" to your body's core area. A combo of both can work amazingly well too, if one is inclined to do so :). BK’s can also be mounted on just the risers themselves (traditional risers or HoverEZe risers) for a little different feel as well. Some like this approach.

How do I keep my Buttkickers from bottoming out?
Well for starters, don’t turn them up to the point that they start bottoming out LOL. But, if you need them turned up that much, there are other ways to help keep this from happening or even completely eliminate it. IME, BK LFEs are most likely to bottom out under 10hz when pushed really hard. So if one doesn’t want to do the “Bottomless BK mod” (see next FAQ under this one), one can set a Negative LS (Low Shelf) filter to roll off under 10hz to varying degrees, or use a BK amp (or combination), which has more rolloff under 10hz within the amp itself, compared to an Inuke amp for example.

Are there any mods for Buttkickers?
Yes, there is one called the “Bottomless Buttkicker Mod” that can be found HERE & HERE (links to this also found in the “Useful Links” under Buttkicker LFE Mods).

Can Buttkickers be Re-Lubed?
Yes they can, and there is a excellent guide (courtesy of Nalleh): HERE (link to this, as well as greases, also found in the “Useful Links” section under Re-Lubing Buttkickers).

Is there much difference between the Buttkicker LFE and Concert versions?
A graph showing the slightly different frequency response between the two can be found HERE (Thanks Nalleh!)

How much power do the Buttkicker LFEs really need? Can they run with less than the minimum recommended 400 watts and are they that much better at the max of 1500hz?
It’s probably best to stay in the recommend 400-1500hz watt range if possible, but I have ran up to 3 and 4 of them on a single Buttkicker BKA-1000 amp (the way it was shown in the BK manual), for very low watts a piece, and had VERY good results. Also, at one point Magly was running 6 BK LFEs on a single channel of an inuke6K (yes six!! o_O), and he said they still had enough power to bottom out, and worked fantastic!! In both of these cases, his and mine, watts per each were probably down close to low 100s, way below what is recommended, yet they still performed amazingly well. As good as somewhere in between 400-1500w a piece? ... IDK, maybe maybe not. With what I experienced and what he said about it, probably good enough to get what is needed from them once the gain is turned up enough. I say, give'm more watts if you have the watts available, but if you don't, they will still KICK YOUR BUTT :p:D:p:D

Can I run my Aura shakers with my HoverEZe?
Yes, just as you can run Buttkickers or any other TR device with HoverEze. As with BKs or any other TR device, they will need to be tuned to work their best with the HoverEZe (phase, levels, etc)

Should I do VNF (Very Near Field) subs behind the seating or HoverEZe?
Both have their place and can be awesome. As far as RAW and AMAZING TR power goes at all frequencies, and especially the single digits, HoverEZe will slaughter VNF subs. That said, VNF subs can be amazing as well in their own way (I ran them for years before I went with a HeZeBack, and still run one in addition). While the VNF is not directly coupled to the seat (even if the driver of the sub or MBM (Mid Bass Module) is within a 1/2” or so of the seatback’s outer surface (which you will want, for to be most effective)), it’s probably more comparable to the HeZeBack or BossBack (although not as effective IMO) vs the normal config style of HoverEZe under the seating. Still great though and has its place, especially if one can not run a HeZeBack.

Should subs that are placed behind the seating (VNF (Very Near Field)) be flattened out for SPL / FR for the best tactile response?
The answer just depends, but in general, if possible, for TR purposes, it will probably be best to have it measure flat, from a close mic reading anyway (~1” away from middle of driver cone for example), not from a reading at the MLP (Main Listening Position), where the room will start coming into play. An more in-depth post on this can be found HERE and HERE

—————
Not quite as frequently asked, but important questions that should at least be addressed and included IMO

—————


What TR devices are considered to be the best in order?
Opinions will vary I’m sure, but for me, I’d say they all have their pros and cons and can deliver the goods in their own way. A lot of times, multiple different TR devices can be combined to work super well together, bringing the best of what all have to offer. Many of us do exactly this. But, from what I’ve experienced from using a lot of different TR devices over the years, here is the order that I would rank them, and what I’d go for first.

1. HoverEZe (Cone Down, Cone Up, or Dual Opposed).
2. HoverEZeSeatBack (some sort of sealed version). If not this, then a VNF sub positioned as close as possible with driver firing directly into seatback to help with mid bass TR to the chest cavity and overall slam to the core area of the body).
3. Buttkicker LFEs (mounted to the seating wherever you can get them, but rear of seating or seatback being the best).
4. Crowson MAs (if you don’t have a HoverEZe). Probably #1 on the list for single digit TR if one doesn’t run a HoverEZe.
5. Original BOSS (open baffle) - If not running HoverEze (which is way better for full band across the band TR), some may argue that it needs to be in the number one position, above MAs and BKs.
6. Although I’ve never experienced Aura's or MQB-1 shakers, I’m sure they would fall somewhere in this area and be great in their own way as well.

What seating is the best for HoverEZe or TR in general?
This one may be highly subjective for what feels best, as seating can have a HUGE impact on the way the TR actually feels and transfers vibration and shake into the body. But form a performance standpoint, usually the lighter the better, as well as harder and / or less padding and springs. One may have to compromise for the best combo of comfort, size, TR performance, and overall feel. Seats range from large couches and sectionals, to single HT style seats, all the way to DIY seats that some members have started making for themselves to try to get around some of the limitations that traditional seats can have when it comes to mounting TR devices etc and getting the most feel possible from them.

How important are Baseline Curves and BEQ for HoverEZe?
In my opinion, BOTH are VERY VERY VERY important! Curves can bring out the absolute best in your HoverEZe across the frequency range that you want to run it in, as well as allow you to also tailor what feels best in those frequencies ranges to best suit your personal preferences (that may be strongly influenced by the variables that we all have to work with, like seating type, HoverEZe type, levels that we like from our TR, etc, for movies and music). Also, BEQ (BassEQ) for movies is just as important IMO (once you have your baseline curves setup for your HoverEZe), to make them full band, restoring the filtered frequencies (usually under 30hz on a LOT of movies), making them more like the native five star full band movies like “The Incredible Hulk” for example, that are strong all the way down to 1hz. The combo of the two will allow one to get the very best experience that HoverEZe has to offer on movie soundtracks.

How much TR do you really need and / or how much is too much?
Well, this obviously will vary (and maybe by A LOT) from one individual to another. On AVS forum, the range basically goes from 0 to 100 LOL. Some guys will go as far as not wanting any TR at all and think that those that want even a little bit of it are nuts, all the way to some of us that seem like we can NEVER get enough, to of course, those that can land anywhere in-between the two extremes. Basically, it all just comes down to personal preference. There are so many amazing ways TR can be had these days, with a little research and effort to try some (or all) of the ways of getting it, we can find how much we desire and in what ways and frequencies.

Have you guys lost your minds and gone completely mad with TR in this thread?
Some of us may have entered into that territory a long time ago :p:p:p …..and continue to get further and further into crazyland, always pushing the boundaries for more and / or better feeling TR. That is a big part of what this thread is all about (for a few of us anyway), but hopefully there can be something for everyone, to achieve what they are after and further their knowledge of all things TR :)

=================================================================================
TR Curves - Gear & Settings used by various users from the thread:
=================================================================================

Thanks for the great idea m0j0!! Like he said, this can be a great reference for each of us to be able to compare what others are using and would also be a great resource for newer folks who are just getting things figured out with their own systems. Anyone who wants to contribute, just make a post and I’ll link to it. That way if you make changes, add gear or whatever, you can keep it up to date.

Click on the links below for each members name to take you to their post of TR equipment and settings:

Kevnmin's TR Gear and Settings
m0j0's TR Gear and Settings
Magly's TR Gear and Settings
Nalleh's TR Gear and Settings
SBuger's TR Gear and Settings

Also, here is a link to each member's Total Gain Structure

Aaron's TR Curves - Awesome post for 6 to 24/oct TR Curves to use on your TR devices, plus amp roll fixes etc from our BEQ and Curve Ninja Aaron!!


===================================================================
TR Journey / Story from various members of the thread:
===================================================================

Read the Journeys / Stories of some of our favorite TR junkies from the thread. Learn where they got their start and where they are now. Create a post of your stories guys, with pics, vids and whatever else you want to include and I'll put a link to it down below: (Please let me know if you posted yours and I didnt get a link to it!)

m0j0’s TR Journey / Story
Nalleh’s TR Journey / Story
SBuger’s TR Journey / Story

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Useful Links - Tape and Tubes for HoverEZe, BK Mods, Drivers, etc:
=================================================================================

Signal/Tuning, etc
Why we want a flat unaltered signal to our TR devices and how do we get it (Thanks Nalleh!):
Why
How
Understanding and Applying Negative Delay
Guide to setting up 2 miniDSP 2x4HD's for all your subs and TR gear (thanks DesertDog!!)
Measure the Signal from the miniDSP 2x4HD with REW (thanks 3ll3d00d!!)

Re-Lubing Buttkickers:
White Lithium Grease
Silicone Grease
Nalleh's BK LFE How-to Re-Lubing Guide

Buttkicker LFE Mods:
m0j0’s BBKs (Bottomless Buttkickers)
m0j0's Red Rider Rubber Bands

Buttkicker Soundproofing:
SOOMMJ 20mm Soundproof Padding that helps cut noise on the BK LFEs

Air Extensions for HoverEZe Tubes:
Nalleh’s DIY Solution
Nalleh's complete parts list for external air control for Tubes of Hover
More Valve Extenders
DesertDog's Awesome Air Extension Solution

Isolators and Springs:
Springs (that m0j0 uses)
Pressure-less Tennis Balls
Hudson 2.5” Hi-Fi Isolators

Drivers for HoverEZe:
A list of various drivers (with specs etc) for HoverEZe

Tubes for HoverEZe that many of us use
Goodyear Heavy: (Smaller sized)
Steerling (16" explosion proof - smaller than Goodyear)
BELL Standard (Smaller sized but still really FAT vs the Goodyears ...similar to Maxxis Fats size when aired up more)
Lineament (16" x 3" w/ bent valve stem)
Maxxis FAT
VEE Tire FAT (20” x 4”)
Mongoose FAT
MONSTER (The ones m0j0 used at one point)
Other Fat Tubes that Nalleh Found
Yet even more FAT tubes (16" and up)

Double Sided Tape for Tubes of Hover:
Tesa
XFasten Extra Sticky
Nano Gel

Drivers / Devices and their Rankings:
Drivers & TR Device Rankings (Spreadsheet from Aaron)

** Please let me know if anyone wants me to add more to the list. That's all I could think of and/or could find for now. I'm sure there is more great stuff that would be very helpful to have a link!!

====================================================
Sub Positioning and TR Devices Overview:
====================================================

Ok, so I wanted to share some of my thoughts and impressions on what I like most (strengths etc) about each of the different TR components that I run in my system and am familiar with. There are TR components that I’ve never tried but have heard very good things about, like the Auras and Clarks, but only have experience with the BK LFEs, Crowson MAs and HoverEZe And of course, the VNF, NF and FF Subs.

All working together as one, pulling from each of their strengths, is where the real magic is at. They can all be great on their own when set up well, but combing can give a great synergy effect for some amazing feeling TR for a "best of all worlds kind of thing". Of course, like anything else, they need to be optimized to work together to get the most out of them all and feel right, like positioning, timing, phase, levels and so on.

So with that said, I’ll list what I like best about each of them and will show some photos for each as a visual example as well (a lot of them will be from my setup since I have a bunch of pics that are easy for me to get to, but I'll include some from others as well (I'll include their name above their photos). I'll start with the subs first, then move on to the main TR gear. Just to be clear, these are just my opinions and what I’ve found messing with them all in a couple differ setups over the years.. By no means do I claim to know it all! I feel like I never stop learning in this awesome hobby!! So, YMMV depending on the variables you have to work with, but I’m betting a lot of this will apply to you and your rig more often than not.

** More pics and updated additions coming soon ...

SUBS & POSITIONING:

The Far Field sub (FF):
The FF sub gives the least amount of TR but almost a must IMO to get the best full sound, as well as that full bass feel with weight (and pressure as well in the right room).

Example of a FF 18” sealed sub sub up front behind the screen:


The Near Field sub (NF):
The NF sub is not to be confused with the Very Near Field sub (VNF ...I’ll talk about that next). I feel that the NF sub is kind of a combo of the FF sub and VNF sub. It gives some real nice TR, more than the FF sub, but still not nearly as much as the VNF sub. But, it still sounds more like the FF sub with that weight and fuller sound, usually with extra TR, which is nice!

Example of a NF 18” sealed sub on the left side wall (plus a CantiLevered BK LFE and VNF behind the seat:


The Very Near Field sub (VNF):
The VNF sub (at least by my definition) is the driver cone at least about 3” or closer to your seatback. The closer the better. With every inch farther away, you lose TR and that overall slam feel from it fast. The main issue (at least in my findings), is that the Bass sound can sound a lot thinner and not nearly as full compared to other subs farther away in room. Also, it has less weight and pressure as well, even if the VNF sub has a real similar looking FR to the NF and FF sub. But, where it shines and what its true purpose is, is bringing on the FEEL. And not not just the shake/TR feel, but that aggressive feeling bass that you can feel within your body as well from the pressure (mostly from Particle Velocity). MBMs (Mid Bass Modules) can work great placed VNF too, for greater chest punch and TR within the chest cavity (I've included a pic of an MBM stacked behind the MLP seat, chest high, in a pic down below (7 pics down) from my previous TR setup down in the living room)

Examples of VNF 18” sealed subs with drivers facing into each seatback:




This shot shows a little CantiLevered BK LFEs and one of the 12" JBLs in the Subwoofer Riser I was running at the time as well:


Example of Nalleh’s Killer VNF array (that include down firing SLAPS) behind his seating:


The combo of just the subs:
(VNF + NF + FF) or (VNF + FF) or (VNF + NF) or (NF + FF) are all good and can work well. Of course I’m biased and think the first one (VNF + NF + FF) is the best if one can make it happen But, I understand that it’s not practical in most rooms and setups.

Examples of VNF + NF




Example of FF + NF + VNF subs (as well as a VNF Mid Bass Module stacked chest high behind the middle MLP seat) in my previous setup downstairs. This setup has a lot more space than my current dedicated room and is a lot easier to show all sub positions:


With the combo (IME) you can achieve an amazing and seamless blend of great sounding, full feeling bass with nice weight and pressure, plus that awesome Tactile and aggressive feel to go with it. This alone can be pretty amazing, especially if on a suspended floor. Plus, the amount of TR and feel, fullness of sound, weight and pressure (if in a nice sized room for pressure) can be tailored to one’s preferences by adjusting the levels etc of the VNF, NF and FF in relation to one another. Easier said than done? Maybe, but is not that bad once you start messing with it all and it gets easier once you get a little experience under your belt just from messing with it all.

Ok, with that as the bread and butter (or backbone of your system's bass), on to the real fun stuff to add the icing and really bring it home for even better feeling TR and perception of that big awesome feeling powerful Bass.

TR DEVICES:

HoverEZe:
What can I say about HoverEZe, this thing is amazing and can dish out some SERIOUS Single Digit TR Madness!!! IMO, nothing can beat it in this area ATM. It can just wobble and shake you silly in the singles if you want it to with some good settings, AND it can do it with ease. For me (and a lot of others), it's been a total game changer into the single digit TR world (especially with BEQ). HUUUUUGE upgrade to the original open baffle BOSS and is VERY worth adding tubes of hover if one is already running the original BOSS. It's fantastic across the board as well. I love mine ran full range with the tubes of hover addition with a rising house curve on it. Also, the HoverEZe can bring a pretty significant amount of SPL, in addition to your subs. In some cases, or at least in mine in a small room, with 3x 18" drivers and 6x JBL 12" drivers, they give me all the SPL I need (without my other normal subs) all the way down deep into the single digits (basically flat with a bit of a rising house curve down to 5hz), giving great sounding full bass, kind of like the combo of FF+NF+VNF that I described up above. Thanks so much, Longeze, for the HoverEZe!!!

** The HoverEZe can be ran under the seating, and/or as HoverEZeCantiLevered behind the seating, or even as a HoverEZeSeatBack

Examples of my MegaHoverEZe (HoverEZe + HoverEZeCantiLevered):




Example of Magly’s MegaHoverEZe:


Example of m0j0’s SuperMegaHoverEZe with BK MMAs on the outside edges (Named the Death Star, I LOVE that name!!):


Example of DesertDogs HoverEZeSac + VNF’s (with SLAPS like Nalleh's):


Example of Tvuong’s:



Example of subacabra's CantiLevered HoverEZe with those awesome new Stereo Integrity Drivers behind the seating:


HoverEZBack (HeZeBack if sealed, or BossBack if not sealed):
The driver in the seatback is awesome as well!!! With a driver attached to your seatback, this thing can pound and bring amazing detail, TR, and chest punch. It's similar to the VNF sub, and maybe even better in some ways. It can be ran as an open baffle version or a sealed version for a different effect and SPL, as well as lower TR in hz & FR capability. One can still run VNF subs in addition (Nalleh does, for example, in his killer TR rig), but having enough room may become an issue for some folks without some planning and creative positioning, if you run other TR gear behind the seating that takes up space. Also, getting the VNF super close to your seatback will probably suffer a little as well, since the JBL driver (or whatever driver you choose) is attached to your seatback. Still, I'm sure it will add PV, SPL, and TR if you are looking for even more. In my setup, it replaced the VNF subs (the 18's were converted to CantiLevered HoverEZe duty instead). Thanks, LastButNotLeast!! I believe you were the first to try out and implement a driver in your seatback!!!

Example:


MegaBack (MB):
You can also run a Buttkicker LFE on the seatback (referred to as a MBK) as well, in addition to the JBL driver on the seatback. This thing can pound and is a lethal combo to driver with BOTH attached to the seatback!!

Examples (JBL 12” Driver + Buttkicker LFE):


Strapped to the seatbacks and ready to be attached to my seats:


Buttkickers LFE (BK LFE):
Oh man, these things in their wheelhouse of power region (that 12-30hz area), especially when multiples of them are ran together, are just unbeatable for raw brutality that can shake your fillings loose. Nothing can match them in this area IMO!! Added to the mix, they can take your already excellent TR system up a few notches or more and give an even better over the top awesome feeling. I NEVER want to be without these in my system, no matter whatever else I’m running!!

** BK LFEs can be mounted CantiLevered behind the seating, under the seating, or to the seatback itself. A combo of mountings locations can be pretty lethal feeling.

Example of Nalleh’s CantiLevered BK LFEs mounted to the back of the seat (Plus VNFs + 18" CantiLevered HoverEZe):


Example of BK LFEs mounted CantiLevered on the seat behind the armrests with some pretty good extension for TR power:




Example of BK LFEs mounted to the inner seat frame before I moved them to Cantilevered position. You can also see the VNF driver up super close and pointed ino the seat, along with a JBL 12" driver in the Subwoofer Riser that I was running at the time:


Example of BK LFEs mounted to seatbacks as MBKs:


Crowson Motion Actuators (MA):
These things are just amazing as well. When it comes to singles digit TR, these things are awesome, only second to HoverEZe, and are amazing across the range. So I run these in the mix as well and they really add extra Pizzazz and awesomeness to the TR

Example of Crowson MAs on top of a Subwoofer Riser (with VNF & NF subs in position):


Mega Motion Actuators (MMA):
These are still new, but a few members are making their own Mega Motion Actuators by using BK LFEs or a sub driver. Early impressions have been great so far!!! Thanks, Aaron, for coming up with this concept and designing the first one!!!

Example of Aaron's MMA first run Prototype: Link to his first post about it HERE


Example of BK MMA’s on the outside edges of m0j0’s SuperMegaHoverEZe:





So, what do you get when you combine all this stuff together? Massive Overkill???? Hahahaha, yeah probably, but IMO/E, when all dialed in together and fine tuned, you get a no compromise, check all the boxes, best of all worlds TR and Bass Super System that can ROCK YOUR WORLD!!!!

A few shots of my TR rig with all gear combined:



And a shot of Nalleh’s insane TR Rig (the CantiLevered BK LFE’s and drivers on the seats are not even shown here). OH MY!!!:


And one more, a shot of Magly's insane TR rig as well (and sporting those Bottomless BK LFEs mounted CantiLevered in there too :) ):


YES, Me, Nalleh, and Magly have went a bit NUTZ with the TR in our rigs, but hey, this is AVSforum and is what sometimes happens around here right!!!?? LOL I can say with certainty though, that we, as well as the others who have done similar with their setups in this thread, DO ENJOY THE HELL OUT OF IT!!! :):cool::p:D:D

Having a very capable full band TR rig can make watching movies a total blast and give an EPIC EXPERIENCE on the ones with really good bass tracks, which seems to be a lot these days with BEQ!!!

But I know running all that gear together is probably impractical for most and may not even be desired if it was. It is most definitely taking things to the extreme. I just used my system (and the others) as an example to show what is possible if desired. It’s probably not for everyone (or may not be their cup of tea I should say) . Even though I LOVE it, it may be way too over the top for some and not enjoyable.

The cool thing is, any small combo of the TR components and methods I described up above can make an amazing feeling super capable TR and Bass system. You can pretty much put together whatever you want, you just have to decide how much TR and bass you really need and want. I will say this though, IMO it’s almost impossible to have too much ULF single digit TR firepower (at least before the HoverEZe came along). With a MegaHoverEZe, when really pushed, it can come close or actually can be too much sometimes, if not careful LOL), especially with all the full band movie tracks now with BEQ!!! I know I keep mentioning BEQ a lot, but it really is THAT good and is such a game changer for movie watching if you love ULF TR and have a capable system to deliver it.

Alright, that’s about it for now. If anyone has anything they want to add to that with their impressions and/or other components as well, or even a different view on it all, feel free.

===============================================================================
Movie Clip “Time Stamps” - For some Killer BASS and TR scenes:
======================================================================


I think it might be awesome to start compiling a list of movie clips with Time Stamps that have some of the COOLEST and/or most INSANE and/or just FUN, or even UNIQUE Bass and Tactile Response you’ve experienced. Thanks for the fantastic idea Tony (tvuong)!! Like he said, it can be a great place to give readers an idea of what we are talking about when we are discussing all this TR and Bass stuff, as well as a go-to place for some of the best Bass and TR clips if you’re looking for some (for demo or otherwise :)).

And whatever the bass frequency range is cool by me. ULF, LF, MB or a Time Stamp with a combo of all. Just whatever scenes make you go OMG that was so insane and cool!!!! o_O :D :cool: With or without BEQ, but I have a feeling the majority will be with BEQ, as it just maximizes the bass in these movies to Full Band like the Native 5 - Star Monsters.

Anyone who is game and wants to contribute, make a post (or posts as you come across these awesome clips over time) with the Timestamps for each movie and descriptions/impressions of them, or whatever info you want to include. I will do my best to keep this post updated with the list of Timestamps for each movie, along with a link to your original post for the Timestamp(s), the lowdown and details on it, as well as the PVA and Heatmap for a visual (if it's available from the BEQ thread). Please include this in your post if you will.

Cool, bring on the best BASS and TR movie Time Stamps you know of :)

Alita: Battle Angle (UHD Atmos) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
10:45 – 11:30 - Alita saves dog from Giant Bot in the street.
18:05 – 20:00 – Rollerball.
21:15 – 31:30 - Street fight.
50:15 – 52:30 – Underwater Ship.
1:04:50 – 1:10:00 – The Underground Battle.
1:48:18 – 1:49:10 – Last Battle with the Big Dude.

Another Life (Netflix Streaming - UHD Atmos) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
1:40 to 2:38 – Intro
36:21 to 37:27 Confrontation on the Ship (ULF Ongoing Extravaganza!)

Aquaman (UHD Atmos) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
6:11 – Explosion of House Sidewall
6:19 – MidBass Drop That Hits the Chest
7:12 – Dude Get Jacked with Spear!
*** LOTS of Highlight/Detail Time Stamps within each of these TS's below (check main post in Link)
9:10 to 11:35 – The Aquarium
47:00 to 50:10 - First Battle Underwater in Old Sunken Ship
1:08:24 to 1:08:44 – Inside the Whale
1:50:18 to 1:51:38 - Fighting the Sea Monster!

Atomic Blond (UHD DTX:X) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
11:07 – Two in One
1:10:09 to 1:10:12 Bass Drop (can really be felt in the chest cavity)
1:10:55 to 1:18:55 Fight Scene in the Stairwell & Room
1:18:55 to 1:19:15 In the Car (check the post for lots of TS highlights and details within this TS)

Edge of Tomorrow (UHD Atmos) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
** Note: This one is in the same post as Moonfall, so just scroll down past that for EOT.
027:00 to 30:00’ish - 2nd Repeat Into Battle
1:29:00 to 1:43:00ish - Ending Battles

Hobbs & Shaw (UHD Atmos) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graph
Opening Scene – Stealing the Virus.
0:32:00 - Kidnapping Hattie.
0:34:00 - Elevator Lands!
0:38:50 - Under The Trailer.
0:57:10 - Flamethrower!
1:15:20 - Flamethrower 2
1:18 and onwards >> - Bomb Goes Off !
1:22:10>50 - Building Collapses !!!!!!!
1:47:55 - Helicopter Fishing.
1:50:50 - Nitrous Hit.
1:52:00 - Landmines.

IT (UHD Atmos) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
19:30 – 20:30 Visions at the Meat House
27:40-28:18 Under the Library
35:00 – 35:30 Mean Teen in the Tunnel
49:00 – 50:20 In front of the Old House
1:19:36 – 1:19:53 Upstairs in the Old House
1:49:10 – 1:49:20 MEGA ULF Wobble within the Tunnel Scene
1:48:41 – 1:50:20 Underground Tunnel Scene

John Wick (UHD Atmos) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
24:00 - 25:00 - Concrete Sledgehammer
46:00 – 54:40 – Famous Club Fighting/Shooting

John Wick 2 (UHD Atmos) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
57:50 – 1:01:45 – Tunnel Shootout.

John Wick 3 (UHD Atmos) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
1:38:05 – 1:53:40 – Last Big Shootout and Fight.
1:44:07 – Two Shots Fired Upward

Live Free or Die Hard (DTS-MA 5.1) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
11:00 - 17:33 - Apartment Gun Fight.

The Martian (UHD Atmos - Extended) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
0:10:10 – 0:15:30 Wakes Up
1:04:30 – 1:05:10 Explosion I HAB
2:04:30 – 2:06:50 Launch MAV
2:16:60 Blowing the VAL

MIB: International (UHD Atmos) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
40:30 – 44:00 – Street Fight with the Twins
1:03:13 – 1:05:40 – Hover Cycle in the City
1:07:20 – 1:07:55 – The GUN!
1:26:21 – 1:28:00 – Earthquake and More Twins.

Moonfall (UHD Atmos) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
0 to 5:49 - Intro
33’ish minute mark - Water Gurgle
1:01:30 to 1:03:30 - Shuttle Take Off
1:10:47 to 1:11:32 - Here It Comes
1:30:30 to 1:32:30 - The Chase
1:10:00 to ~1:57:00 - The Moon and Its Devastation
** Also of note: there are some timestamps within these timestamps too (listed out in the main post for this)

Mortal Kombat (UHD Atmos) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
00:10 to around 12:00 - The Big fight intro
2:50 to 3:30 - Sub-Zero entering the house
20:36 to 21:30 - Sub-Zero shows up in town
1:13:05 to 1:16:18 - Fight with the 4 armed Giant
1:28:12 to 1:35:41 - Ending Battle with Sub-Zero

Overlord (UHD Atmos)Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs. More Impressions
7 minute mark, soon as you hear the buzzer :) Some killer stuff before as well!!! (~1 minute mark & then starts about 5:00 to around 12:00)

Shazam! (UHD Atmos) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
1:39:40 – 1:56:00 – Showdown at the Carnival (20 minutes of Insane Bass and TR)
1:41:01 – 1:42:47 – Monster Confrontation & Slow-Mo Carnival Gun Shot.

Spiderman: Far From Home (UHD Atmos) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
19:30 to 25:00 – The Water Giant
1:17:40 to 1:21:00 – The Illusion
1:31:00 to ~1:48:00 – Ending Battle (check the post for lots of TS highlights and details)

Total Recall (TrueHD 5.1) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
02:00 - Opening scene where he dreams.
28:00 - Arrested at Recall office,
41:00 - First hand-phone call.
50:40 - Busted arriving at the Colony with the face mask.
1.38:20 Breaking free from Coohagens guards.
1:40:30 Starts the chopper.
1:45:00 Overtaken by police.
1:55:00 Bombs go off and the Fall is dropping.

Venom (UHD Atmos) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
53:27 – 58:25 – Street Chase

Wonder Woman (UHD Atmos) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
0:14:00 - First time using the bracelets!
1:14:00 - and on >>
1:20:30 - Sniper at clocktower.
2:04:30 -2:06:00 - Ares final attack on Diana

X-Men: Dark Phoenix (UHD Atmos) - Link to Time Stamp Details, Impressions, PVA & Heatmap Graphs
Intro to 2:30 – Intro
6:46 to 7:32 - Shuttle Launch
9:28 to 10:00 The Exit
10:46 to 49 - Mega Blast Past
14:37 to 15:38 - Jean and the Impact
28:58 to 31:40 – Cerebro (ULF Single Digit Wobble Fest)
38:00 to 1:40:01 – A Ride To The Past (check the post for lots of TS highlights and details within this TS)
43:10 – Jean unleashes on Raven
43:40 Jean Takes Off
1:14:17 to 1:14:37 Part of the Ending Battles
1:23:17 – Train Passing

Also, here is a list of Movies with BEQ that Nalleh put together that contain strong 1hz frequencies HERE
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
My Journey / Story into the wonderful world of Tactile Response

So with all that out of the way, I’ll go first I guess since I thought this might be a good idea for a thread (lol) and give a bit of my story, some pics, some graphs, and some thoughts about TR etc.

** warning ...kind of a long post but hopefully won’t be too boring!

As some of you may know already, I’m a pretty serious TR junkie!!!! I just LOVE LOVE LOVE me some TR and LOTS of it!!! But that said, I still want it to feel as realistic and natural as possible, from super subtle to FULL ON shake you silly and rattle your fillings loose when called for, and of course everything in between. I love the experience that great TR can bring to movie watching, demoing, gaming etc. Without it, it’s just nowhere near as fun and exhilarating for me and is what has driven me to try to push the envelope with it to see what is possible.

So here’s a bit of my journey for finding that TR glory :)

I had a few other little systems prior to the one I have now, but didn’t know much at all about this stuff, much less what TR was. I just know I loved it!! But then got more serious about HT setup in my current house and set it up as good as I could in the living room. I started with a Rythmik FV15HP and some Polk speakers. Was pretty good for starters but as we all know, the thirst for more grabs a hold of you and doesn’t let go :eek: LOL

I started listening louder and louder and started getting uncomfortable on the ears trying to get more slam and shake. Plus, just the one little 15” sub placed FarField was never going to cut it by itself in a huge open area for what I wanted. But gotta start somewhere.

Next, I got a JTR cap 2400 (earlier amped version) to accompany it about 4 years ago. Big improvement with two subs. THEN it happened, I discovered what placing a sub right behind my seat could do after seeing what guys like Archaea, carp, dominguez1 and a few others were doing around here. BINGO, now we were getting somewhere!!! Could not believe what it did and gave me a big taste of that feel I had been chasing, even at lower listening levels. A TOTAL game changer for me and I’m sure you can all imagine what happened from here LOL. Yep ..I wanted MORE of it and so then the chase really began. Learning REW of course and what FR and sub placement was all about helped too. I jumped in head first and soaked up and experimented with it all as much as I could. Then eventually got into Crowson MAs, BK LFEs and then building my own 18” subs. Well, AIY subs, but close enough for me. Between these TR components and the mix of Very Near Field sub placement (along with a VNF MBM right behind me chest high as well when Dom’s thread was going nutz), along with FarField and well, things came together really well after a LOT of experimenting and fine tuning. It was tons of fun and I feel like I learned so much about it all along the way and allowed me to pretty much get exactly what I was looking for, which was some pretty crazy chest pounding, body and bone rattling TR and Bass that was super satisfying, in a huge open area, even at moderate listening levels. That system had some pretty insane feeling Bass & TR and must say ...it gave me tons of enjoyment!!! :)

Here are a few pics of that setup that I had down in my living room:

This first pic is one of my first attempts at getting that crazy super nearfield experience when I finally got 2 subs and stacked them behind me with a Rythmik FV15HP and JTR cap2400. I needed one up front as well, but was fun to stack them both behind me for a crazy demo day!! This was quite the experience and I still vividly remember it as one of the craziest, coolest Bass and TR beatings I've ever had with Max Mad Fury Road cranked way up :eek: :D Plus I had the Crowson MAs and BK LFE's in the mix too at the time. The MAs got too hot and went into protect mode though LOL MMFR is brutal can work the crap out of your gear if not careful!!!


And the BK LFEs mounted to the couch and a couple Crowson MAs as well. Man that couch was wicked for TR!!!! It had a lot of flex in that middle seat with its light weight metal frame and those BK's could work you over good because of it. I loved it!!! :D


So then, I got the new subs built with one behind each seat, plus a FF sub upfront. Plus, got things dialed in a lot better TR and FR wise which really helped.




But then after all that, I got the idea to move up into my 13' x 13' x 8' office room upstairs, because I've always wanted a dedicated room that I could do whatever I wanted without having to deal with WAF and the things that I couldn't change in the living room. This is the only room that that could happen in.

So it began again, I lugged all my gear upstairs and started experimenting to see if it would work out in such a small room. OH YEAH, sure enough did, it worked out great!! I even did a comparison of suspended floor vs concrete HERE if anyone is interested. I have a little different thoughts on it now that I’ve been up in this room for a while and probably need to update that thread to reflect this, but a lot of what I found out and posted in that comparison thread, I still feel the same way about. Plus all of the pics I posted aren't showing up right in that thread either because of the server they are on is not working. I'll try to get the images moved and working again as well.

So, once I knew that room would work, I ran a pretty mean Bass and TR config with a single seat in the middle sweet spot until I got more seats in the room. I ran 3 sealed 18” subs surrounding me just as close as I could get them VNF style, plus another 18” sub up front behind the the drop down projector screen, plus dual Crowson MAs + dual BK LFEs bolted to the single recliner + being on a suspended floor. Yes , LOTS of TR and was tons of fun!!! :D

Here are a few pics of that setup before I blacked out all the walls and got serious with Atmos and all that with a full dedicated HT setup.

Here's the sweet spot where I would park my old one recliner chair until I could get some good HT seats in there. Me and coolrda use to call it the “The Kill Box” area LOL. He had a very similar setup with a 24” sub parked right behind him instead of an 18” like I was using, with MAs as well, but no BK LFEs


And with the recliner in position :)


And then getting closer to getting the setup put together with the big screen mounted for that awesome HT bass & TR experience :)
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
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Then BOOM!! Go time, even got some black velvet put up at this point for some great picture quality. Man, them were some awesome times being surrounded by all those subs, TTs and MAs setting that close to the screen for the first time in this new room. My dream was finally coming true for a dedicated HT space ...YAY!!!


So yeah, that was super fun, but I needed to start the process of finishing it out. So, eventually added 3 new seats and built two more 18" sealed subs to go behind all 3 seats, plus more Crowson MAs and BK LFEs for the other seats as well, plus more speakers for Atmos. I enjoyed it quiet a while like this and then added in a subwoofer riser for more TR. I really loved what I already had going with the TR, but had to at least try it. I love experimenting, especially with TR!!! I ended up trying about 4 different versions of it. I love the subwoofer riser and so I added it permanently to my system in conjunction with all the other TR components. I tried it setup in BOSS form (suspended on isolators for open baffle) but ended up just setting it down onto the floor with no isos (not open baffle anymore), using the flooring carpet and pad to mostly seal it seal it, making it more like a Subwoofer Riser instead of open baffle with no isolators under it (I actually LOVE it like this, and works and feel better in my system than with isolators under the platform (which would bottom way too easy on ULF TR as open baffle). My suspended floor is helping with this a little bit though down super low. Plus it gives me SPL just like a sealed sub and I really seem to love the extra fullness it brings, as well as feels really natural. I'm now truly surrounded by subs all around me ...right behind, under, to the sides, and up front and is quite enveloping :D I do run 4 isolators on top of the SubRiser though on the back of the seating in between the Crowson MAs that seems to work fantastic.

So now 6x 18" subs with 3 of them spread around the room and 3 of them VNF behind each seat, + 6 Crowson MAs, + 4 BK LFEs, + Subwoofer Riser loaded with 6 JBL 12” woofers that the seats sit on (2 JBL's under each seat in a 6" x 30" by 8' platform riser.

Pretty crazy I guess with running all these TR components combined, but it works very well and gives the best of all TR worlds IMO. I love how they all contribute in their own way with their strengths and combine as one. To me, it feels absolutely amazing. It can feel pretty darn ferocious when it needs to be and gives me about all I could ever wish for TR wise. I enjoy the heck out of it and brings me many hours of joy in the HT room!! :) Super fun stuff with BEQ (BassEQ for filtered movies) that makes pretty much all movies Full Bandwidth all the way down deep into the digits. It’s a great time to have a ULF TR capable system and so worth it with BEQ in town now if you’re a movie and ULF TR lover!!! Good times for sure!!! If you haven't checked out BEQ yet, get on it if you like Full Band Bass & TR like what The Incredible Hulk etc can deliver!!

So here's a few pics of the latest TR setup. First without seats to show the SubRiser with the 12" JBLs loaded in it and 6 Crowson MA locations as well, and then with seats. The VNF subs are actually raised up higher now than in pics with no seats to fire more into the seat backs for more feel since my SubRiser is about 6" higher. Losing that 6" distance from the seatback to the driver lost a lot of feel from the subs. So I raised them back up, and back in business. BIG time difference in feel!! Even with all the other TR components I run, there is a reason I'll never be without VNF subs. I love them and always will!! Same with BK LFE's, Crowson MAs, and now the Subwoofer Riser too. The combo is magic to me and gives so much flexibility to help dial in what I want. Yes it takes some time to get it all setup and tuned, but it's so worth it!!!

Pics for seats ready to be mounted on top of Subwoofer Riser...

A previous version with only 3 JBLs


I also tried my 18's mounted cantilevered directly behind my seats for BOSS as well (HAD to try it out of curiosity!!), but ended up liking the JBL 12's mounted under me in the SubwooferRiser setting on the floor with no Isolators better.


So, then final version with 6JBL mounted into the platform for underneath the seating


And a shot of the VNF subs raised to firing into the seat backs


And a view from under the middle MLP seat from the front showing the BK LFEs, one of the rear JBLs 12's in the platform/riser and an 18" SI DS4-18 driver firing into the seat back. I don't think you can see the Crowson MAs though, but they are right there close to the BKs under the inner seat feet.


For a couple graphs, here’s my FR that I’m currently running and a couple VibSensor graphs of just the Subwoofer Riser + Crowson MAs. I don’t don't think I have any VS readings to post yet of all combined with the VNFs and BKs in the mix. But this will give you an idea of the kind of TR it’s capable of hitting with just those two TR components. It gets up around 1e+01 at ref bass levels. Not too shabby at all! Pretty brutal actually!!

Current FR with Subwoofer Riser in the Mix with pretty good extension into the singles, which is pretty cool.

RED = All subs + CC crossed at 90hz …


And then some VibSensor graphs with 0-50hz White Noise and EOT intro. EOT intro is about as brutal of material as you can get for VSing and putting your gear through the ringer (hopefully not killing any of it). BUT, the BOSS sitting on the floor as a sealed Subwoofer Riser with 6 JBL 12's seemed to just rip right through it with ease, and even had more in the tank than this, but didn’t really want to push it too much more. The last 2 tones of the EOT intro are about 10db hotter than most ref material and hits up around -5db signal levels on the last 2-3 notes/sines of 20hz, 15hz, then 10hz, and is one of the reasons EOT is considered dangerous. But it is definitely a great one to show your TR power in these 5 distinct frequencies though, reading from right to left ….30hz, 25hz, 20hz, 15hz, and lastly that insane 10hz blast. IMO the Subwoofer Riser (even by itself) and with MAs too, just crushed it, touching up around 1e+01. That is some pretty hardcore TR right there by any TR junkies’ standards I think and was cool to see. But what is also cool to see, is that it follows the source (PVA – the actual frequency graph of that particular EOT time stamp too). Very cool!!!!

White Noise: (left) EOT Intro: (right) Both with Subwoofer Riser + MAs only around ref levels with a 5 lb bag of rice to weight the phone from bouncing up off the seating. The MAs only contributing a little bit here with Subwoofer Riser doing most of it (I'm running the Crowson MA's harder in the mix these days than what they were doing here).


Ok so there is my TR journey up to the present. A lot more pics and stuff in my room thread if you want to see more. Hope you all enjoyed and please feel free to post away with your pics, experiences, love of TR and all of that good stuff etc. :)

EDIT: The TR Journey Continues!!! Will try to update this post if I can to include the latest, but I have hit the pic limit so will be tough. I'll hyper-link to the post with the new TR additions. I've added a lot more to the journey and TR set up with a MegaHoverEZe & MegaSeatBack HERE ...and even more additions to that HERE

A little sneak peak of the madness ... :D


Cheers TR lovers!! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Extra TR Goodies Section
(Users TR Gear & Settings, Journeys/Stories, Videos, Useful Links, etc)

** Moved to post # 2 for now.
 

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Thanks for starting this thread @SBuger. Hopefully everyone will post their recent experiences here. I'd be particularly interested if anyone has hints on affecting TR at different frequencies by altering the delay/phase between multiple subs and also between sub/mains.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
List of TR Gear and Sub Positioning Overview
(a list of various TR gear and their strengths, as well as sub positioning and their benefits / strengths)​

^^^Thanks guys!!! I hope everyone will post their experiences too and get a lot of enjoyment out of this thread. And of course, help us learn more about TR and improve our systems as well!!!

** Moved to post #2 for now ...
 

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Great idea for a thread! I really need to get me a better VNF sub (currently using B1200D)...I'm thinking PSA S1801. Just been suffering from lack of funds the last couple years. :(
 
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I'm hoping to get a couple of Crowsons at some point, but it's a shame getting a proper amplifier without any major setbacks is pretty much impossible.

Whether it's the adjustments, the idle power, heat, noise, reliability or price. I don't foresee myself getting surround sound any time soon, and I wish to simply be able to hook up the amp as part of my xlr passthrough-chain, and thus make do without a pre-pro or receiver. I was looking at the XTi x002-series. but they require far too much idle power. So far, the XLS 2502 seems to be the best overall option even though it practically has zero adjustment-options and is not overly powerful. It seems "adequate" down to around 10hz, according to the tests done on various amplifiers here on the forums a while ago.

People, including SBuger I'm [99.9%] sure, have been talking about having to use "negative delay" on the Crowsons to make them better match the rest of the system, but I use my system for everything, including online games and voice chat. And I can adjust the latency on the speakers themselves anyway, as well as the phase on the subwoofer. If I needed more latency than that to match it up perfectly with the Crowsons, I'm not sure I would do so anyway.

Of course, since the XLS 2502 doesn't have EQ, I can't make a really easy house curve/BEQ for the Crowsons, which is kind of a downer. There is for instance mini DSP, of course, but that's not without downsides, either, especially because of the way I have set thing up. I wouldn't want to force the EQ meant for the Crowsons on my subwoofer.
 

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Of course, since the XLS 2502 doesn't have EQ, I can't make a really easy house curve/BEQ for the Crowsons, which is kind of a downer. There is for instance mini DSP, of course, but that's not without downsides, either, especially because of the way I have set thing up. I wouldn't want to force the EQ meant for the Crowsons on my subwoofer.
You wouldn't. You can split one input on the miniDSP to several outputs, each one having its own adjustments (including delay).
Quite a handy device, actually.
Michael
 

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You wouldn't. You can split one input on the miniDSP to several outputs, each one having its own adjustments (including delay).
Quite a handy device, actually.
Michael
To make my statement "I wouldn't want to force the EQ meant for the Crowsons on my subwoofer" a moot point, I want the option of 100% passthrough, and I also need the device to accept high voltages. As far as I can tell, the mini DSP is not a device capable of accepting 24 dBu input nor capable of transmitting it.

"Maximum input level,
 

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I'm hoping to get a couple of Crowsons at some point, but it's a shame getting a proper amplifier without any major setbacks is pretty much impossible.

Whether it's the adjustments, the idle power, heat, noise, reliability or price. I don't foresee myself getting surround sound any time soon, and I wish to simply be able to hook up the amp as part of my xlr passthrough-chain, and thus make do without a pre-pro or receiver. I was looking at the XTi x002-series. but they require far too much idle power. So far, the XLS 2502 seems to be the best overall option even though it practically has zero adjustment-options and is not overly powerful. Though it seems "adequate" down to around 10hz, according to the tests done on various amplifiers here on the forums a while ago.

People, including SBuger I'm [99.9%] sure, have been talking about having to use "negative delay" on the Crowsons to make them better match the rest of the system, but I use my system for everything, including online games and voice chat. And I can adjust the latency on the speakers themselves anyway, as well as the phase on the subwoofer. If I needed more latency than that to match it up perfectly with the Crowsons, I'm not sure I would do so anyway.

Of course, since the XLS 2502 doesn't have EQ, I can't make a really easy house curve/BEQ for the Crowsons, which is kind of a downer. There is for instance mini DSP, of course, but that's not without downsides, either.
Palewing.....I'd recommend starting with a BOSS first....much more affordable and you'll be amazed how natural it will feel while delivering jaw-dropping ULF TR well into the single digits with any amplifier you want to use...even a spare one laying around since the power requirements aren't that large.

If you don't have any other TR devices in your setup right now, just add the BOSS and no need to re-calibrate or mess with timing. It will integrate seemlessly into your setup and sound very natural for any source material....music, movies and gaming. I haven't found any material yet that needed any tweaking or didn't sound right.

I'm big into music and movies and the BOSS excels in both formats....single digit wobbles in movies, no problem. Chest slamming kick drums and bass plucks, no problem. It's so natural with these source materials. For gaming, my 16 y.o. son is a big-time gamer, mostly online gaming with his friends using XBOX-X but also PS4 for exclusive titles (namely Uncharted and Spiderman). I'm in awe watching him play his games while sitting on the second row BOSS platform and he's sitting on the front row BOSS platform....truly breathtaking and very natural feeling. I could watch him for days doing that....better than movies at times :)

If you have other TR devices in your setup, then timing and setup is much more critical because of how TR is transmitted to us directly through wood rather than through the air like SPL TR devices.

I touched on the TR timing topic in the BOSS thread a couple days ago and will post some of that below also to help those who are considering multiple TR devices and properly setting those up.

Spoiler alert.....getting timing right without having the ability to measure multiple TR devices simulataneously and time-aligned is almost impossible because even 1ms differences can cause destructive TR combinations because that TR is transmitted to our bodies so efficiently through wood.

My recommendation for those who want natural feeling TR and don't have the proper tools to measure TR would be to pick one active TR device (either Clarks, Crowsons, BK's, Aura's, BOSS, etc.) and optimize that one active TR device by itself all on one amplifier and one signal chain to keep it feeling as natural as possible....i.e.; adding more Clarks on one amp, more Crowson's on one amp, more BK's on one amp, more BOSS drivers on one amp, etc. until you get the TR you desire.

If you have the proper tools, then additional TR devices and amplifiers can be added and optimized in the signal chain....see my post below for the proper tools.

For the passive TR devices (FF, NF and VNF) the addition of these TR devices aren't as critical from a timing perspective because those TR pressure waves are coming at you through the air and the TR is orders of magnitude smaller than the active TR devices I mentioned above and timing isn't as critical.
 

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Excerpt from the BOSS thread regarding time aligning TR devices

From the BOSS thread.....click here for the full context.

"With multiple TR devices, timing of each device is critical. Even more so than timing of SPL waves from your speakers. This is because the medium that the waves are propagating through are much more dense with TR than SPL (wood transmits vibration much more efficiently than air).

When developing the BOSS, that was the most critical influence on overall TR.....minimizing the timing errors of each BOSS driver and the only way to do that is to make the platform as rigid as possible.

Those with multiple TR devices on their BOSS platforms are still experimenting to find that magic setting for each device because timing is so critical. To really dial things in with multiple devices, vibration and timing of each TR device needs to be measured independently and time-aligned much like we do with REW and dialing in SPL response by measuring each speaker contributing to the SPL in the room, then putting it all together in the end.

The problem with measuring TR devices, there's really no good hobbyist vibration measurement devices to allow this to happen. @3ll3d00d 's DIY vibration measuring system using raspberry pi is about as close as us hobbyist will get to having the ability to measure TR like the pros who use equipment costing 5 figures."
 

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Palewing.....I'd recommend starting with a BOSS first....much more affordable and you'll be amazed how natural it will feel while delivering jaw-dropping ULF TR well into the single digits with any amplifier you want to use...even a spare one laying around since the power requirements aren't that large.
I appreciate the reply, but BOSS has no relevance to me. I have others in the house that I have to bother as little as possible, I don't have the space, and I don't have any other amplifiers or drivers lying around making cost benefit a moot point. Crowson is the only relevant thing since it is accurate, takes up little space, and makes no (or extremely little) noise.

I got my subwoofer so I could have it VNF and high pass my speakers so others in the house would hear less bass than the "speakers only" at any relevant and relative volume. I pretty much only get to use it loud when there's no one else around.
 
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Hey Michael....a few problems with VibSensor.....it uses a phone or tablet which is too much weight for a transducer. The weight of the phone or tablet itself starts to affect the measured vibration significantly, especially below 10 Hz which is where the magic is for ULF TR.

The second problem is the CG of the phone or tablet....this is related to the weight above, but since the CG of these devices isn't centered, the offset CG also affects the measured vibration when using a phone or tablet.

The third problem is the ability to measure vibration at various points at the same time. VS can only measure one spot at one time.

If one has professional vibration measurement equipment, each accelerometer is about the size of a pea and only weighs a few grams. Each of those accelerometers plug into an analyzer that has multiple channels to record the vibration measurement at each accelerometer location on the test piece at the same time (time aligned). Once you see all the TR measurements on 1 time aligned graph, it becomes very easy to see how each one is mis-aligned and by how much. Once you know the direction and magnitude of mis-alignment, it's very straight forward to correct those timing errors.

The closest thing us hobbyist could use without spending 5 figures is @3ll3d00d's DIY rpi vibration measuring system linked below. This system will only cost a few hundred dollars. Contrast that with the pro equipment which costs 5 figures and more. The equipment I used when developing the BOSS cost 6 figures....it was borrowed equipment :)

The link to the DIY rpi vibration measuring system is in this thread here.
 

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I appreciate the reply, but BOSS has no relevance to me. I have others in the house that I have to bother as little as possible, I don't have the space, and I don't have any other amplifiers or drivers lying around making cost benefit a moot point. Crowson is the only relevant thing since it is accurate, takes up little space, and makes no (or extremely little) noise.

I got my subwoofer so I could have it VNF and high pass my speakers so others in the house would hear less bass than the "speakers only" at any relevant and relative volume. I pretty much only get to use it loud when there's no one else around.
The mini-riser BOSS makes no sound and the full size riser BOSS can be made to make no sound with some additional vents in the side of the riser cabinet and isolators below it. I have a family of 5 and do most of my listening at night time. Since adding BOSS platforms to our theater, I never get those looks in the morning that I used to get. I turn off my FF subs at night and it's BOSS only for incredible single digit ULF TR that shakes the blankets off the couch at times. For the first few weeks, I kept waiting for someone in the house to complain but no one did :)

Not trying to sell you on BOSS but just wanted to dispel the belief that there's SPL.....Shelby is using his BOSS as a sub riser quasi-sealed box without isos as he mentioned above so that's a special case creating SPL. Most BOSS risers are open baffle....no SPL. My first post in the BOSS thread has more details and testimonials if interested in learning more.

Some who have tried a BOSS have even gotten rid of their VNF's and Crowsons.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Great idea for a thread! I really need to get me a better VNF sub (currently using B1200D)...I'm thinking PSA S1801. Just been suffering from lack of funds the last couple years. :(
Thanks Alan!! Yeah I would think the PSA S1801 would work great for a VNF sub!!
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
True about the VibSensor(s) and I’m sure d00d’s is great!! I’ve been saying this for a while now, I need to build one!! But even if the phone VS may not be the most accurate, and not good below 10hz or even much above 30-50hz (and the lack of multiple locations (yes multiple locations would be awesome!!), it’s still (IMHO) a fantastic tool to have in your tool bag to work with in that very important 10-30hz area. I think its accurate enough in the 10-30 hz area for what most of us need and is easily repeatable, making it easy to track changes in your systems TR with different components that may be added and combined in ones system, showing timing changes etc pretty darn well and most definitely helps to tune with, in conjunction with the ole butt-o-meter. Truly accurate and the be all end all, of course not, but close enough for what most of us need and doesn’t cost anything. Not that I wouldn’t love to mess around with a multipoint ultra-high end VibSensor set up :)

Just my .2 cents
 
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