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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
Yeah...that was a sample of one watching a scene I'm very familiar with (War of the Worlds - Pods Emerge) and I wasn't sure what to expect. It felt mechanical to me, so I asked him to reduce the power and it was the same feeling still just to a lesser extent. I tried different seats on the couch and was left with the same overall impression. Hard to describe but I would have loved to have played around with them more but didn't want to be overbearing like I can be sometimes :) He hasn't experienced a BOSS yet, so hopefully that will happen in the near future.....about a 2.5 hour drive.
I was mainly just messing with ya :) Does kinda surprise me though. But who knows, we all experience things differently, and the way things are setup and variables like seating and the way they interact with TR components can have a big effect on the way it feels sometimes. And your used to the BOSS. No denying that it can feel so very, very realistic!! Is one of the reasons I love it so much!! But I do love the Crowsons too.
 

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Hey guys, i’m back :)

Awsome thread, and thanks @SBuger for starting it. It has been a number of threads dabling in this subject in recent years, but maybe a dedicated one is better, for all kinds of methods of acheiving good TR.

I could go on a lengthy post about all of this, but frankly it would just mirror what my good friend @SBuger has already covered in the first posts, awsome job Shelby :) You and me have always been on the same page about all of this, so no need to repeat what you have already said, LOL.

But i will put together a post about my journey and my thoughs when i get time.

I will just say this: each of these methods on their own is a massive upgrade from just having speakers(subs), only the crazy ones of us would need to combine several kinds of TR devices, so for newbies reading and who may find it scary, any one of them will give you a increased enjoyment of your setup and movies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
Hey guys, i’m back :)

Awsome thread, and thanks @SBuger for starting it. It has been a number of threads dabling in this subject in recent years, but maybe a dedicated one is better, for all kinds of methods of acheiving good TR.

I could go on a lengthy post about all of this, but frankly it would just mirror what my good friend @SBuger has already covered in the first posts, awsome job Shelby :) You and me have always been on the same page about all of this, so no need to repeat what you have already said, LOL.

But i will put together a post about my journey and my thoughs when i get time.

I will just say this: each of these methods on their own is a massive upgrade from just having speakers(subs), only the crazy ones of us would need to combine several kinds of TR devices, so for newbies reading and who may find it scary, any one of them will give you a increased enjoyment of your setup and movies.
Thanks, Nalleh , and nice post!!

Welcome back and thanks for joining in!! I’m already looking forward to your ‘Journey and Thoughts’ post as well, my bro!! :)

Well said on the Bold above!!
 

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Thanks Shelby, that means a lot to me as that was my very first build for the love of audio :). Honestly, I wouldn't have built that BOSS without your enthusiastic posts about TR. For anyone interests, my BOSS pictures and write ups are linked on page 29 of the Boss thread (linked here on the first post.).

IMO, no VNF sub can replace the BOSS, especially down low in the teen to the single digit Hz range. What impresses me the most is the ability to have strong TR at -20MV and softer volume. I had decent TR with my subs alone but I had to crank to -10MV and much louder with hotter bass to feel it, not any more with BOSS that not only I am able to protect my ears but also get more TR - to me that is very important.
Good point Tony... that's a great benefit of TR (whether it be from a BOSS system or Crowsons etc) you can save your hearing. One thing I still can't get over is how my Crowsons make the bass SOUND louder than it is. I've played around a lot with listening to a scene with the Crowsons on and then with them off (and then on again and off again etc) and when they are on you'd swear the volume had been cranked up. It's why I suggest to people to get TR before adding more subs. It's cheaper and they may just find out they don't need any more subs after all.
 

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You are almost as sick as them :eek::D:cool:
Lol! its infectious man! I love it and I need more. These Butt kickers and a FV28 should do it! ;):D

And I have made no change to my listening volume of -10MV :p
 
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Killer thread fellas!

For a carpeted concrete floor theater does anyone know if TR can be improved by placing seating on a one or two inch tall wood platform? I'm thinking of trying this for my first row seating but not sure if this low height does anything. My second row at 16" high definitely makes a difference.

Edit: I'm referring to setup with subwoofer only, no transducers.



You really should build a BOSS Platform. :D


I have yet to experience one.
 

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My TR JOURNEY (PS: not covering the subs here, just the TR part of the setup)

My first TR "setup" i guess would be this back in -08 or -09 :



Some cheap POS Pyramid 12" in push-pull sealed boxes. Crap, but they did add some TR, which i hadn’t felt before.
Back then i didn’t have any REW or Minidsp, so AVR calib was all it was.

Then a couple years later i got some(also dirt cheap) shakers called Sinus Live bassPUMPs III, 2 pr seat, and it was amazing!! These were actually incredible value for the money, and worked down below 20hz, they really shook the seat and was miles better than what i had felt before(little did i know, LOL).



Then in 2016 i found the Crowson thread in here, and just had to try it, and ordered 2 of them.



Holy cow this was on another level!! All the way down to single digits, WOW!!! This was a game changer! Back then i just ran them of a old AVR, and i was STILL flabbergasted! Within months i ordered 2 more, and a dedicated amp, and with 4 Crowsons i thought i was set for life regarding TR.

Later that year i also got a Behringer B1200D after finding the MBM thread. This was more of a midbass step, but being nearfield it added a lot of TR to the mix, but somehow i wasn’t happy with it.



I even tried with my PSA S3000i + the 1200D in NF setup but not good enough.



Then in 2018 i read the "cheap JBL 12" thread", and i found my new nearfield setup, ending up with 12 of them in sealed boxes right behind my couch for a Very Near Field setup. And it was AWSOME !!



Job done :)

Exept this @SBuger guy kept advocating these Buttkickers !!! Since i had the "top of the line" Crowsons, and had read reviews complaining about the BK’s, i had no faith they could add anything, but i was curious, so i got 2 of them. After confirming the two biggest cons with them(the noise and bottoming out), i started to discover the pros about them. And fell in love ! Nothing else can do what they can, they are insane. So i got 2 more, LOL. I tested a couple of mounting positions before settling on having them under the front of the seats, with the Crowsons under the rear. I made a new plattform to mount all of it on, and had the best setup yet :)







Up until now i had run a pretty hairy house curve in my minidsp to compensate for the neutered LFE tracks Hollywood was putting out, but then the BEQ thread was born, making all tracks full bandwith, and once again came a game changer, it changed moviewatching from then on!
However BEQ and my house curve was to much, and i blew two of my Crowsons within half a year. So i had a choise: i could either get them repaired, turn the level down on them and continue with a reduced effect. NOT a option !
So i took a step forward by ordering 2 more Crowsons for a total of 6, and went for a stacked setup! I built a 2x3 stacked Crowson setup, and now i could turn down the level, use a more normal couse curve and STILL get a better result from the Crowsons.



And still with the BK’s under the front.



This was now a totally insane setup, and the stacked Crowsons, BK’s and JBL NF’s gave a mindblowing experience. I was very happy :)

Right.......
Then Tim invented the BOSS.....
Using the same cheap JBL’s (as shakers)and some marvelously soft silicone isolators all mounted on a plywood sheet under the seats.
Again, i was skeptical and didn’t jump on i right away, but got curious again, so had to try it, so i robbed 1 of my JBL NF boxes of it’s 4 drivers and mounted them(push and pull to make them fit) in the plattform, under the couch.



But i didn’t like it, thought it was to wimpy, so i got 2x SI18" HT subs used, removed the drivers and mounted them under the couch for BOSS duty.



Didn’t like it, almost gave up on BOSS, but decided to try one more option: cantilever! Or behind the seat instead of under it.
By now my plattform was full of holes from all the experimenting, and i still had a lot of testing to do, so i got creative and came up with a new plattform to make mounting and testing all the different gear i wanted possible. It ended up being incredible stiff, was very flexible regarding placement options and made room for all the components i ever wanted to fit in there. Here is the prototype.



VOILA, that hit the spot, and i loved it :) this got me fired up, but the heigth of the 18" meant that the VNF needed to be very high up to work, so instead of 1x18", i tried 4x12" JBL for cantilever BOSS, and that worked very well, and didn’t require the VNF’s to be so high. So the final version of the TR Sled looks like this.



In the middle of this testing i also tried a "combo VNF/BOSS box", which started from the idea i had about extending the LFE on the VNF boxes by using a passive radiator sub together with the JBL’s, and by mounting a Earthquake SLAPS M12 passive radiator in a downfiring config, the incredible stroke(4inch) and mass(500+grams) could be used for BOSS duty while the JBL’s facing forward took care of the FR and near field effect. Win-win.



So, with all components tried and tested, i could finish the whole thing and mount all the gear on the sled.



So this means that i have 4 !! different ways of making TR on this one patent: the TR Sled.

Per seat: 2xBK in front, 2x MA in the middle(2x2 stack on the left seat), 4x JBL cantilever BOSS and 2x JBL VNF box on top with SLAPS passive radiator downfiring for BOSS duty.



And since i have a two seat couch, that means double all that for the whole couch! The TR part of my setup is now waaay more complicated and expensive than my main sub section, LOL. Heck i have 4x NU6K’s just for the TR part alone, LOL(6 total for LFE).



But the result is just totally bonkers, and WAY better than i even dared dream of, so i am happy about that. Another advantage about optimizing TR is it doesn’t bother your neighbours, while getting more subs defenitely would ;)

But still very stealthy :)



This got long, so i will leave "my thoughts" for another post, LOL.

More info and measurements etc is in my thread :)
 

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Wow @Nalleh Thanks for sharing! What a journey you've taken.....and, a great history lesson for TR in our crazy hobby!

Also, a testament to how addictive AVS Forum can be and how deep the rabbit hole can get :)

Congrats on your TR Sleds.....still admire how "tough" looking they are! A perfect merge of industrial strength function and form....
 

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Discussion Starter · #71 ·
@Nalleh - Thanks for posting your journey my good TR loving friend!!! I loved reading through it and seeing the progression!!!

And what you ended up with in the end, GAWD …ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!! I just shake my head and grin ear to ear every time I see those final TR Sled pics!!!!!! I recon you have enough TR firepower there now to do bodily harm when you unleash that beast in full throttle mode :eek: hahahahaha. I know what mine can do, and yours is even crazier LOL. Super fun times for sure!!! :D

Hail the True TR King!!!! :) :) :)
 

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^^ Thanks guys :) Both of you are partially to blame for this madness as you kept nagging me to try things, LOL. And i kept biting ;)
 
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@SBuger @Nalleh I got the BK LFE that ordered for sizing and alas it does not fit anywhere, front or back on my platform. So I have the following choices and would appreciate your thoughts:

1. Extend the BOSS platform in the back by about 1 feet and place the BK LFEs behind the chairs. This will cause my seating to move even closer to the screen which I am not too fond of but I could make it work and it may throw other things off balance with speakers and subs. Don't know how I would do that either.

2. Try the mini BK LFE. Not sure if these will work either but I could order one for size as well. Anyone experienced them? may be adding more of those provides the same impact as the larger BK?

3. Drop the BK idea and save up for crowsons as they will go under the feet of the chair so no space issue

4. Drop the whole dang thing and enjoy what I have and just add the BOSS to the rear row

What do you all think?

Thanks,
Ray
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
^^^ Yeah, the BK LFEs are pretty big! Probably part of the reason they can feel so strong. The original BKs were even bigger :eek:

1. This could work well I think for the BKs. BUT, I have no problems getting closer to the screen :), so ……. In fact, with the new PJ, I moved a little closer than I was since it’s so much sharper than what I had. I think I’m now about 6’ 8” eyes to 16:9 s120” screen. Yeah I know, probably too close but I LOVE the immersion. How close are you now eyes to screen and screen size in your front row? But yeah, might throw your speaker positions off a little depending on how far forward you have to move. A re-cal will probably be in order at the very least.

2. Good question. I’ve never tried the mini’s but haven’t heard great things about them. But I’ve heard some bad things about the BK LFEs too, and you know how much I love them :D BUT, @Sekosche was one that tried the mini BKs (I think it was the mini’s) and he didn’t care for them, and he’s not just anybody …I trust he he knows good TR :) :cool: :) I think mainly they are just not big enough to get down to that 20-12hz area with authority without really struggling. Multiples may help though. IDK, I think if it were me, I’d try to make the full size BK LFEs work, even if you have to mount them cantilevered and your seating moved forward to make it happen (at least if moving forward doesn’t give you some bad nulls from your sub locations or something, or totally throw your imaging off etc).

3. Hmmm, yes this could work too. As awesome as the MAs are down low and under 10hz, if it were me I’d probably go with the BKs if I had to choose one, as that 12-30hz range that they can dish out can be so exhilarating. Not that I don’t love the under 10hz stuff as well.

4. LOL, yeah there’s an idea!! Let’s see if you have more willpower to say NO to MOAR than me and Nalleh hahahahaha. Nah seriously, IDK. I’m sure your system kicks butt and is a ton of fun the way it is now. But I totally understand that want for more, no matter how good it already is sometimes :) Oh the sickness that can take over us sometimes!!!!!!!
 

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^ I agree with Shelby here.

Do you have a pic from the side, showing how close the couch is to the step behind it? The BK’s are ~5 inches deep, so you shouldn’t need 1 ft extension.
 
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^ I agree with Shelby here.



Do you have a pic from the side, showing how close the couch is to the step behind it? The BK’s are ~5 inches deep, so you shouldn’t need 1 ft extension.


Here you go. There is just no space between the step and the chair especially when reclined. In the front I fits but then I close the chair all the way.

I am currently about 7 ft from screen when reclined. May be a bit more.









How would I extend this thing? See pic below.




Here is a pic of my boss flipped upside down



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Is there room under a back leg going to the back? That's how I had mine when I was using it.
It looks like you have it that way in the pics. You don't NEED to attach it to the platform if it's attached to the chair.
Michael
 
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