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@imureh

In all fairness, I had a pair of Crowson’s before trying the BK Advance so the bar was already set very high for quality TR. The BK Advance is at least double or more the weight of the BK mini, and I think the BK LFE again doubles or quadruples the shaker potential from the mid level Advance.

I may try the BK LFE’s someday to see what else I can add, but I definitely wouldn’t recommend anything smaller than the Advance, which at that point you might as well just buy the LFE for maximum impact across a large riser like yours. I only demoed the BK’s for a few days before sending them back, because I couldn’t get them dialed in well enough to add any significant TR over the Crowsons without severely bottoming out/clanking during really low content
 

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Here you go. There is just no space between the step and the chair especially when reclined. In the front I fits but then I close the chair all the way.

I am currently about 7 ft from screen when reclined. May be a bit more.
Thanks for the pics :)

IDK man, it look from the pics like you are ALMOST there ! The BK is half way in there, just moving the couch with the BOSS a couple inches forward and it’s done.

I have had FAR bigger obstacles to face (read getting 2x12" BOSS push-pull IN the seat chassis), but how much work you are willing to put into it is up to you, of course.

The BK doesn’t need much space around it, it vibrates, but 5mm of space in each direction is plenty, so you can mount it pretty close to the seat.
 
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My "thoughts"...

If you don’t have any TR devices and wonder about dipping your toes in these waters, most any of these devices will improve your movie watching a good deal. Now, some will like one solution better than the other, but it should still be an improvement. I dare say if it isn’t, it is very likely poor setup related.
These devices CAN work very well right out of the box for a lot of people, but that doesn’t mean the setup is optimal.
Another thing is even if it feels like one device is covering all areas, there are still differences and pros and cons on all of them. For example in my setup(which probably most would call totally overkill), if i mute any one of the devices, i can feel something missing. They all contribute and summ up for a very precise and nuanced feel.

So, let’s say you have mounted and connected a TR device and you are over the moon about it, but like with a subwoofer: have you measured it? Is it setup properly?
A good setup can change your impression from a horrible one to a awsome one, and a good setup can change from a very good one to a mindblowingly good one. But if you don’t check/ measure it, you’ll never know.

EQ.
Normally the TR devices gets the signal from the LFE output from your AVR. Since the room affect the sound waves your speakers(and in this case the subwoofer) puts out, the room calibration in your AVR tries to correct that by using equalizer to flatten the percieved response.
However a TR device doesn’t make sound, it vibrates, and as such is unaffected by the room and doesn’t need EQ. It needs a flat signal, but now instead it receives a signal that could have a 10dB boost at 20hz and a dip of -10dB at 35hz making the feel from the TR device uneven and un-natural.
This can be fixed with a external EQ like a Minidsp and can be done in at least two ways.
1. Either you pre-EQ the signal, so that your AVR room calibration would’t need to EQ the LFE signal. And then you EQ your LFE for your subwoofer(s) manually afterwards.
2. Or you run the room calib on your AVR as normal, and then EQ your TR device signal back to flat afterwards.

Timing.
The point here is to get your subs and the TR devices signals to reach your MLP at the same time, same as if you have two subwoofers placed different in the room. For your subs this can be done using the free software REW and a microfon measuring the sound.
But again: your TR devices doesn’t make sound, they make vibrations, so REW wouldn’t work. However everybody has a smart phone, and you can download a free app called Vibsensor, which measure vibrations.
IMO this is a invaluable tool to tweak the timing on all TR devices. Is it perfect? No! But then again, neither is REW, but VS can get you FAR closer to the target than just go by "feel".
It is a bit up to yourself how presise and consistent VS can be, but i can do 5 seperate measurements , and they measure EXACTLY the same. And it is very responsive to changes, for example delay adjustments, so i would call it the TR equivalent to REW.

I have also noted that all my TR devices seem to work more efficient on this new TR Sled than it did on my old MDF sheet. I think this is because it is much stiffer and rigid, and not only does each component have a more stable fundation, but it seems they work better together, as less work is wasted in flex from the sheet.

Also i find it funny and interesting that me and my "TR twin" @SBuger had kind of the opposite experience with normal vs cantilever BOSS. I have tried both 12" and 18" in both normal and cantilever position, and clearly preferred cantilever, while he tried 12" in normal and 3x18" !! in cantilever, and preferred normal position!

He also wanted his BK’s more to the rear, while i prefer them under the front of seat. It’s all good though, just goes to show there is more than one way to skin the cat :)

And in all my experiments, what REALLY surprised me, was how good the " SLAPPed BOSS" worked! This can easily be used as a one box solution for both VNF and BOSS function, and would provide exellent NF effect and wooble and punch :)

And then there is what floor you have, concrete or suspended, and what seating you have, which all will affect how much TR you get.

I guess if you are thinking about getting any of these option, just ask here, and we can try to answer as good as we can. Between us, i think we can help most of you ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #84 ·
^^^ AWESOME post my bro Nalleh (my ‘TR Twin’ LOL :D)!!!! You touched on some great and very important things and I couldn’t agree more!!! Thanks so much for joining in and contributing, helping to bring amazing TR into the community and more mainstream as being a vital part of a system and the experience that can be had from it!!!!
 

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Its because of you guys that I have my Crowsons! And I'm still working on dialing them in since I just got new seats and it does feel different than my other seats.
 
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^^ Yup, the seats are a big part of how TR is transferred to your body, and i believe @SBuger noticed a difference too, switching to new seats.

I went from two singleseat recliners which actually had swing too(not ideal with Crowsons, as they turned around under heavy action scenes, LOL) to a two seat couch with recliner function, and liked it much better.

Depending on steel or wood frame, thickness and type of padding/springs/suspension, weight, recliner or not, etc, two brands of couches can feel wastly different.

EDIT: also if you leave the original feets on your seat/couch, their type and material can affect your TR.

;)
 
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Hey guys, first off, great thread and really enjoying seeing the TR journeys everyone has shared! I haven't been at it for very long, but I have started down the TR path as well so thought I would share for those of us who are new to it / not quite as experienced or advanced.


I have had an average 8 to 12 inch Polk sub in some iteration or another for my various 5.1 and 7.1 HT setups in my living room for many years, going back to the 90's, and never really got much into things until I bought a new home a few years ago. I vowed to turn the sitting or formal room of the house (when you first come in the front door) into a dedicated home theater, ONE DAY... Well, when I finally got around to setting up a projector and put an IKEA couch in there, with no stereo to speak of, I had to start picking out components. One thing I decided was I wanted to have a good subwoofer, so after some research, I bought and SVS SB-2000. I also felt at the time that I wanted things to look nice and neat so I bought an AV Rack that would allow me to fit the SVS inside it (and keep the kids from messing with the wires and knobs, which they love to do).


The first attached pic is what the place looked like when I bought the house.



The 2nd pic is what the setup looked like once I added in the SVS and the Ikea couch, as well as a full 5.1.4 surround setup.


I was quite impressed with the "feel" I was getting from the SVS in a near field setup. It made me wonder what it would be like with more and bigger bass. So, I saw a sale for a Monolith 15 THX Ultra and thought, yep, that should do nicely. After trying it in the front of the room, I found it was too powerful in that location and disturbed the wife and kids at night, so I thought, if I move it behind the couch, that might work. First, I stood it up and turned it sideways since it was so big, to get it to fit and not have to move my seating out too far into the room. I didn't like that result, so I placed the sub on it's side with ports firing forward into the seat, and that was very nice! So, I also moved the SVS behind the seats in the same way and started to get my room setup with VNF bass, which I liked a lot! I also ended up getting a deal on some Monolith THX 10's, and put those on the outside seats setup the same way. I was rocking and pretty happy with the setup. However, I ended up developing Tinnitus and that ended my VNF setup, as I could no longer tolerate the subs at SPL levels I was happy with playing that close to my ears.


Then, I read about the BOSS being a low cost DIY shaker platform with little to no SPL but great Tactile response, and I had to learn more! A few weeks later, I was able to finalize my BOSS build and try it out, and wow, it really brought back the TR I was so bummed about losing when I had to move the 15 out of the room and move the 10's and 12 up front. Now, I get great all around bass at reasonable SPL levels and awesome TR with my boss platforms! Based on everyone else's setups, I will probably also expand out to some Crowson's at some point, but for now, I'm pretty happy with the results.


EDIT: And if anyone is interested, I attached some pics of what the room looks like now compared to when we moved in 3 years ago.
 

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@m0j0: Thanks for sharing, awsome to read your journey :) Seems like you ended up in a happy place :)

Love the barn doors, and very cool room ;)
 
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Thanks for the pics :)



IDK man, it look from the pics like you are ALMOST there ! The BK is half way in there, just moving the couch with the BOSS a couple inches forward and it’s done.



I have had FAR bigger obstacles to face (read getting 2x12" BOSS push-pull IN the seat chassis), but how much work you are willing to put into it is up to you, of course.



The BK doesn’t need much space around it, it vibrates, but 5mm of space in each direction is plenty, so you can mount it pretty close to the seat.


Thanks guys for helping me shape how this could work. @trhought helped me figure out on the BOSS about extending the platform may be using 1 inch thick hardwood and just screwing it in to the platform. Thanks @Sekosche for sharing your thoughts. I will try and make the BK LFE work if I can.

The question I now have left is whether I stay with 2 BKs in front and 2 in back or having one per seat in front and back which would make it 6. The amp I was looking at is the NX-4 6000 that is a 4 channel amp and would be capable of sending 860w at 4 ohms to each BK in a 4 BK set up. With 6 the power will drop and I may need to add another 2 channel amp so it gets more complicated and expensive which I want to avoid.

What do you guys think, can the amp I mention drive 6 BKs and send enough power to make use of their entire capability? This will determine how I place the boards on the platform for extending. I.e. one exactly behind each seat in 6 BK set up or perhaps between the seats in 4 BK set up.

Dialing in and all is a whole other ball game which I will definitely reach out to @Nalleh and @SBuger once I have this all set up.

Thanks
Ray


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Hey guys, first off, great thread and really enjoying seeing the TR journeys everyone has shared! I haven't been at it for very long, but I have started down the TR path as well so thought I would share for those of us who are new to it / not quite as experienced or advanced.


I have had an average 8 to 12 inch Polk sub in some iteration or another for my various 5.1 and 7.1 HT setups in my living room for many years, going back to the 90's, and never really got much into things until I bought a new home a few years ago. I vowed to turn the sitting or formal room of the house (when you first come in the front door) into a dedicated home theater, ONE DAY... Well, when I finally got around to setting up a projector and put an IKEA couch in there, with no stereo to speak of, I had to start picking out components. One thing I decided was I wanted to have a good subwoofer, so after some research, I bought and SVS SB-2000. I also felt at the time that I wanted things to look nice and neat so I bought an AV Rack that would allow me to fit the SVS inside it (and keep the kids from messing with the wires and knobs, which they love to do).


The first attached pic is what the place looked like when I bought the house.



The 2nd pic is what the setup looked like once I added in the SVS and the Ikea couch, as well as a full 5.1.4 surround setup.


I was quite impressed with the "feel" I was getting from the SVS in a near field setup. It made me wonder what it would be like with more and bigger bass. So, I saw a sale for a Monolith 15 THX Ultra and thought, yep, that should do nicely. After trying it in the front of the room, I found it was too powerful in that location and disturbed the wife and kids at night, so I thought, if I move it behind the couch, that might work. First, I stood it up and turned it sideways since it was so big, to get it to fit and not have to move my seating out too far into the room. I didn't like that result, so I placed the sub on it's side with ports firing forward into the seat, and that was very nice! So, I also moved the SVS behind the seats in the same way and started to get my room setup with VNF bass, which I liked a lot! I also ended up getting a deal on some Monolith THX 10's, and put those on the outside seats setup the same way. I was rocking and pretty happy with the setup. However, I ended up developing Tinnitus and that ended my VNF setup, as I could no longer tolerate the subs at SPL levels I was happy with playing that close to my ears.


Then, I read about the BOSS being a low cost DIY shaker platform with little to no SPL but great Tactile response, and I had to learn more! A few weeks later, I was able to finalize my BOSS build and try it out, and wow, it really brought back the TR I was so bummed about losing when I had to move the 15 out of the room and move the 10's and 12 up front. Now, I get great all around bass at reasonable SPL levels and awesome TR with my boss platforms! Based on everyone else's setups, I will probably also expand out to some Crowson's at some point, but for now, I'm pretty happy with the results.


EDIT: And if anyone is interested, I attached some pics of what the room looks like now compared to when we moved in 3 years ago.
m0j0....Thanks for sharing pictures or your theater! Love the barn doors, love the painting above the doors, especially how the red seems to glow. Love the dark color scheme and tall ceilings....wow! Nicely done!

It's also great to hear the BOSS is helping with your Tinnitus. I tried VNF for a couple months last summer and could never get the natural feeling I was seeking. After so many experiments and different arrangements with VNF, I finally gave up. What I remember most about VNF, was the volume level sensitivity and how that had such a large impact on the overall experience. I also remember volume creep was addictive with VNF, but by the time the movie or music was over, my ears would be ringing. Not good I thought to myself. A couple hours of enjoyment will result in a lifetime of hearing loss.

Now, with the BOSS platforms, our MV rarely goes louder than -10dB and even then, the TR is almost too much at that point. -20dB is where most of our listening occurs and with BEQ, the TR is perfect including the chest slam I was getting with VNF.

Best of all, no ear ringing afterwards!
 

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Thanks guys for helping me shape how this could work. @trhought helped me figure out on the BOSS about extending the platform may be using 1 inch thick hardwood and just screwing it in to the platform. Thanks @Sekosche for sharing your thoughts. I will try and make the BK LFE work if I can.

The question I now have left is whether I stay with 2 BKs in front and 2 in back or having one per seat in front and back which would make it 6. The amp I was looking at is the NX-4 6000 that is a 4 channel amp and would be capable of sending 860w at 4 ohms to each BK in a 4 BK set up. With 6 the power will drop and I may need to add another 2 channel amp so it gets more complicated and expensive which I want to avoid.

What do you guys think, can the amp I mention drive 6 BKs and send enough power to make use of their entire capability? This will determine how I place the boards on the platform for extending. I.e. one exactly behind each seat in 6 BK set up or perhaps between the seats in 4 BK set up.

Dialing in and all is a whole other ball game which I will definitely reach out to @Nalleh and @SBuger once I have this all set up.

Thanks
Ray


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Ray....as always, glad to help any time. I just posted over in the BOSS thread also...make sure to drill pilot holes when screwing into the hardwood to avoid splitting :)

Regarding dialing in the BK's and BOSS, those 2 devices shouldn't be too difficult since the BK's won't be providing much single digit TR, they will mostly be enhancing the 20Hz content. Hopefully that's what you're after. So, with your BOSS already dialed in for the "magic" single digit TR, you won't have to worry about the BK's taking that TR away as long as the phase is set correctly.

VS does an OK job with content above 10Hz so it can be used to get the timing close enough. My experience is my butt is about as good as VS when it comes to the 20-30Hz content so don't be afraid to trust it :) If you were trying to dial in 2 devices that provide single digit TR, like Crowsons + BOSS, then VS can be misleading and TR should be adjusted by feel only unless you have a way of measuring each device independently, accurately and at the same time.

Without a better vibration measuring systems in our hobby, we're all leaving some TR on the table because we can't time-align all those components properly. It's like our hobby used to be before REW. In those days, we would adjust the SPL of each speaker using a sound meter but had no idea how those individual speakers were summing and subtracting until REW came along and revealed how badly our rooms were really behaving, especially in the low frequencies.

To make matters worse, timing with TR components is even more critical than SPL because wood is much better at transmitting vibrations than air is at transmitting vibrations. And, even worse, the magical "you are there" TR is in the single digits which VS can't measure accurately.

Long story, short.....trust your butt when dialing in multiple TR devices to maximize your investment. If you really want to optimize your TR, a better measurement system is needed and will hopefully come along in our hobby some day very soon.
 

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Ray....as always, glad to help any time. I just posted over in the BOSS thread also...make sure to drill pilot holes when screwing into the hardwood to avoid splitting :)



Regarding dialing in the BK's and BOSS, those 2 devices shouldn't be too difficult since the BK's won't be providing much single digit TR, they will mostly be enhancing the 20Hz content. Hopefully that's what you're after. So, with your BOSS already dialed in for the "magic" single digit TR, you won't have to worry about the BK's taking that TR away as long as the phase is set correctly.



VS does an OK job with content above 10Hz so it can be used to get the timing close enough. My experience is my butt is about as good as VS when it comes to the 20-30Hz content so don't be afraid to trust it :) If you were trying to dial in 2 devices that provide single digit TR, like Crowsons + BOSS, then VS can be misleading and TR should be adjusted by feel only unless you have a way of measuring each device independently, accurately and at the same time.



Without a better vibration measuring systems in our hobby, we're all leaving some TR on the table because we can't time-align all those components properly. It's like our hobby used to be before REW. In those days, we would adjust the SPL of each speaker using a sound meter but had no idea how those individual speakers were summing and subtracting until REW came along and revealed how badly our rooms were really behaving, especially in the low frequencies.



To make matters worse, timing with TR components is even more critical than SPL because wood is much better at transmitting vibrations than air is at transmitting vibrations. And, even worse, the magical "you are there" TR is in the single digits which VS can't measure accurately.



Long story, short.....trust your butt when dialing in multiple TR devices to maximize your investment. If you really want to optimize your TR, a better measurement system is needed and will hopefully come along in our hobby some day very soon.


Thanks Tim for the additional advice. Once I get the 4 vs 6 decision landed based on the post above I will then venture out and buy the wood and make the changes. As you can see from post above the 4 vs 6 potentially may change where I place the BK. I was looking to enhance the whole bandwidth of ULF and LF through the BK


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Thanks Tim for the additional advice. Once I get the 4 vs 6 decision landed based on the post above I will then venture out and buy the wood and make the changes. As you can see from post above the 4 vs 6 potentially may change where I place the BK. I was looking to enhance the whole bandwidth of ULF and LF through the BK


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You could always scale the BK additions in increments....meaning, add 2 now and if you still want more of the 20Hz, add another 2, etc. Keep the additions equally distributed on your platform so the BK TR is equally distributed to all seats with each incremental 2 BK addition.

The BK's will bring more in the 20Hz band but don't expect much below 10Hz which is where the magic "you are there" feeling is that you're getting today with the BOSS. If you're looking for more kick drum vibrations after the kick drum hits, or more of that thump in the body after a gunshot, then the additional BK's will help.

The other approach is to boost the BOSS 20Hz band with an additional PEQ of sufficient width and gain to deliver a similar experience. This is what I'm doing today with BEQ and my BOSS's....boosting the 20 Hz band to get the kick drum hits and gunshot thumps I love so much.

Not trying to deter you from getting the BK's but wanted to offer this simple "no cost" approach first as a voice of sanity before you go much deeper into the rabbit hole. :)
 

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You could always scale the BK additions in increments....meaning, add 2 now and if you still want more of the 20Hz, add another 2, etc. Keep the additions equally distributed on your platform so the BK TR is equally distributed to all seats with each incremental 2 BK addition.



The BK's will bring more in the 20Hz band but don't expect much below 10Hz which is where the magic "you are there" feeling is that you're getting today with the BOSS. If you're looking for more kick drum vibrations after the kick drum hits, or more of that thump in the body after a gunshot, then the additional BK's will help.



The other approach is to boost the BOSS 20Hz band with an additional PEQ of sufficient width and gain to deliver a similar experience. This is what I'm doing today with BEQ and my BOSS's....boosting the 20 Hz band to get the kick drum hits and gunshot thumps I love so much.



Not trying to deter you from getting the BK's but wanted to offer this simple "no cost" approach first as a voice of sanity before you go much deeper into the rabbit hole. :)


Good point Tim. I love the TR I am getting from the BOSS so much i am just looking for more violence and what sold me on BK are comments from Shelby and Nalleh about how enjoyable the BK are and that it would be one component in their set up that they would not remove. I am not in a hurry, just trying to know what would be required to add them in with amp and changes to BOSS platform etc.


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Discussion Starter · #95 ·
@m0j0 – Welcome and thanks for sharing your journey, I loved it!! And wow, VERY impressive what you turned your room into!! Seriously, looks fantastic, and like Nalleh and Tim said, I love those Barn doors and entry way ….super cool!!!

Also sounds like you found the perfect solution for keeping the SPL levels under control while still getting the TR you crave. I can very much relate to that, as I have some trouble with my ears as well at high SPL levels (real high frequencies as well) and have to keep both in moderation. This is a HUGE part of why I run the TR setup that I do and sent me down this journey. I can now feel like I’m just getting hammered by crazy bass if I want, while not just totally blasting the crap out of my ears to get it. A win win in my book and sounds like its working great for you as well!!

Thanks again for posting!! Great stuff!! :) :) :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #96 · (Edited)
@imureh – The BK LFEs can be vicious in the 12-30hz area and even a little over that range, but yes its true, they’re crap under 10hz. BUT, that’s not what we want them for, that’s the Crowson MAs and BOSS’s job.

IMO/E, it’s the 12-28hz (and even up into the 35hz or so range) that can truly be exhilarating and where that feeling of OMFG power comes from for TR and is most important in all these bass movies we love so much. The BK’ LFEs EXCELL at this and most definitely what they do best and why we want them in our system as well (well some of us lol). The under 10hz TR is great to have too and having both equally capable is the best of both worlds and what we ultimately want if we can.

From my experience with them all, and I think Nalleh may have said something similar, is that the BOSS is kind of a milder/more subtle version of the MAs and BK LFE combined, which is way cool. The BOSS is awesome!! The MAs and BK LFE just add to it and take it to the next level by doing what they do best in their area of strength!!

Also, IMO/E, the phone VS is pretty darn good at showing what we need in that 10-30hz range. No not perfect and could be better I’m sure, as well as having accurate measurements under 10hz would be cool as well. BUT, like Nalleh mentioned in his ‘thoughts’ post as well, its FAR better than no VS at all and d00ds would probably even be way better. So, this combined with the butt-o-meter, should allow you to get it dialed in pretty damn good!!! Will there be some TR optimization left on the table without a better VS system and no delay limitations with some of the common gear we run, it’s very likely. But you can still get it pretty darn close, close enough for a super in-sync feel, rock your world TR and bass experience with a combo of components.

Heck, even with your butt-o-meter alone, you can come pretty close by running some sines and good demo bass scenes that cover the frequencies. For example, you can play a 5, 8, 12, 15, 20, 25hz etc tones with BOSS only, then turn on the BKS (or MAs or even VNFs) and totally feel if they are way out of time and cancelling or adding to the TR. Changing delay amount and or phase can easily be felt. Just by doing this method alone, it can get you very close and bring an ear to ear grin experience from the combo of components. And of course, VS can help you fine tune it even more. Even the phone VS that is getting slammed a lot recently. I get it though, a better VS system would be awesome and I’m sure d00d’s RPI is a big step in that direction. I probably need to get one built if I want to try to fine tune any further. System optimization can usually always be better, but man Ive been over the moon happy with the feel of mine lately, and feeling better than it ever has :)

Im not really feeling the need to tune and extract MOAR at all anymore (thats saying a lot for me lol) and just want to enjoy a ton of content!!! :D :cool::cool::cool:
 

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@imureh – The BK LFEs can be vicious in the 12-30hz area and even a little over that range, but yes its true, they’re crap under 10hz. BUT, that’s not what we want them for, that’s the Crowson MAs and BOSS’s job.



IMO/E, it’s the 12-28hz (and even up into the 35hz or so range) that can truly be exhilarating and where that feeling of OMFG power comes from for TR and is most important in all these bass movies we love so much. The BK’ LFEs EXCELL at this and most definitely what they do best and why we want them in our system as well (well some of us lol). The under 10hz is great too and having both equally capable is the best of both worlds and what we ultimately want if we can.



From my experience with them all, and I think Nalleh may have said something similar, is that the BOSS is kind of a milder/more subtle version of the MAs and BK LFE combined, which is way cool. The BOSS is awesome!! The MAs and BK LFE just add to it and take it to the next level by doing what they do best in their area of strength!!



Also, IMO/E, the phone VS is pretty darn good at showing what we need in that 10-30hz range. No not perfect and could be better I’m sure, as well as having accurate measurements under 10hz would be cool as well. BUT, like Nalleh mentioned in his ‘thoughts’ post as well, its FAR better than no VS at all and d00ds would probably even be way better. So, this combined with the butt-o-meter, should allow you to get it dialed in pretty damn good!!! Will there be some TR optimization left on the table without a better VS system and no delay limitations with some of the common gear we run, it’s very likely. But you can still get it pretty darn close, close enough for a super in-sync feel, rock your world TR and bass experience with a combo of components.



Heck, even with your butt-o-meter alone, you can come pretty close by running some sines and good demo bass scenes that cover the frequencies. For example, you can play a 5, 8, 12, 15, 20, 25hz etc tones with BOSS only, then turn on the BKS (or MAs or even VNFs) and totally feel if they are way out of time and cancelling or adding to the TR. Changing delay amount and or phase can easily be felt. Just by doing this method alone, it can get you very close and bring an ear to ear grin experience from the combo of components. And of course, VS can help you fine tune it even more. Even the phone VS that is getting slammed a lot recently. I get it though, a better VS system would be awesome and I’m sure d00d’s RPI is a big step in that direction. I probably need to get one built if I want to try to fine tune any further. System optimization can usually always be better, but man Ive been over the moon happy with the feel of mine lately, and feeling better than it ever has :)



Im not really feeling the need to tune and extract MOAR at all anymore (thats saying a lot for me lol) and just want to enjoy a ton of content!!! :D :cool::cool::cool:


Thanks Shelby. I am sold on them. I just need to figure out how many as per my earlier post. It’s more to do with amp and power limitations and may Nalleh can weigh in on that post.


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^^ No prob! Yeah, Nalleh is really good at all the amp and pairing stuff!! So is Tim
 

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@m0j0 – Welcome and thanks for sharing your journey, I loved it!! And wow, VERY impressive what you turned your room into!! Seriously, looks fantastic, and like Nalleh and Tim said, I love those Barn doors and entry way ….super cool!!!

Also sounds like you found the perfect solution for keeping the SPL levels under control while still getting the TR you crave. I can very much relate to that, as I have some trouble with my ears as well at high SPL levels (real high frequencies as well) and have to keep both in moderation. This is a HUGE part of why I run the TR setup that I do and sent me down this journey. I can now feel like I’m just getting hammered by crazy bass if I want, while not just totally blasting the crap out of my ears to get it. A win win in my book and sounds like its working great for you as well!!

Thanks again for posting!! Great stuff!! :) :) :)
Thanks for the complements on my room guys. I know it’s not much compared to most HT rooms on AVS, but it’s my little kingdom and I am pretty happy with it! Thankfully, my wife has given me a lot of leeway as she knows it’s always been my dream to have this room. Lord knows a black wall with Vader on it is not your typical WAF setup!
 

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@imureh – The BK LFEs can be vicious in the 12-30hz area and even a little over that range, but yes its true, they’re crap under 10hz. BUT, that’s not what we want them for, that’s the Crowson MAs and BOSS’s job.

IMO/E, it’s the 12-28hz (and even up into the 35hz or so range) that can truly be exhilarating and where that feeling of OMFG power comes from for TR and is most important in all these bass movies we love so much. The BK’ LFEs EXCELL at this and most definitely what they do best and why we want them in our system as well (well some of us lol). The under 10hz TR is great to have too and having both equally capable is the best of both worlds and what we ultimately want if we can.

From my experience with them all, and I think Nalleh may have said something similar, is that the BOSS is kind of a milder/more subtle version of the MAs and BK LFE combined, which is way cool. The BOSS is awesome!! The MAs and BK LFE just add to it and take it to the next level by doing what they do best in their area of strength!!

Also, IMO/E, the phone VS is pretty darn good at showing what we need in that 10-30hz range. No not perfect and could be better I’m sure, as well as having accurate measurements under 10hz would be cool as well. BUT, like Nalleh mentioned in his ‘thoughts’ post as well, its FAR better than no VS at all and d00ds would probably even be way better. So, this combined with the butt-o-meter, should allow you to get it dialed in pretty damn good!!! Will there be some TR optimization left on the table without a better VS system and no delay limitations with some of the common gear we run, it’s very likely. But you can still get it pretty darn close, close enough for a super in-sync feel, rock your world TR and bass experience with a combo of components.

Heck, even with your butt-o-meter alone, you can come pretty close by running some sines and good demo bass scenes that cover the frequencies. For example, you can play a 5, 8, 12, 15, 20, 25hz etc tones with BOSS only, then turn on the BKS (or MAs or even VNFs) and totally feel if they are way out of time and cancelling or adding to the TR. Changing delay amount and or phase can easily be felt. Just by doing this method alone, it can get you very close and bring an ear to ear grin experience from the combo of components. And of course, VS can help you fine tune it even more. Even the phone VS that is getting slammed a lot recently. I get it though, a better VS system would be awesome and I’m sure d00d’s RPI is a big step in that direction. I probably need to get one built if I want to try to fine tune any further. System optimization can usually always be better, but man Ive been over the moon happy with the feel of mine lately, and feeling better than it ever has :)

Im not really feeling the need to tune and extract MOAR at all anymore (thats saying a lot for me lol) and just want to enjoy a ton of content!!! :D :cool::cool::cool:
Shelby...for the bold above, I've found applying a bathtub curve to my BOSS platforms via BEQ remux helps to make it feel even better. Basically, boosting the
 
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