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The 'War' is good!

2454 Views 34 Replies 27 Participants Last post by willyd, Jan 16, 2008

James R. Geib

Discussion Starter · Jan 15, 2008

Personally, I'm glad there are two formats right now, otherwise I wouldn't be enjoying HD movies right now. We would have never seen a $99 player this soon in the game had it not been for both formats. (Having just had a son, built a new home and invested a lot of money in my photography hobby, I simply don't want to spend $300 on an HD player. My $99 player was a birthday present.)

If studios would simply release movies in both formats, there would be no war, and everyone (except Sony) would win.

The longer this drags on, the better the chance I have of getting additional, inexpensive HD-DVD players in the distant future, as well as movies on the cheap. It's a win, win situation for me!

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

Jocky Wilson

· #2 · Jan 15, 2008

I agree with most of the OP. The format war has been good for customers to a point as it has drastically increased the rate in which HD price drops have occured.

As for getting a cheap HD-DVD player, there are stacks of them on eBay now, so I'm sure you can get one for not much more than the cost of a family meal at Burger King.

Calamus

· #3 · Jan 15, 2008

No one really wants this long term.

The studios that release movies on BD and HD-DVD have a choice.

1. Keep it simple and play to the least common denominator of both formats. For BD that means a release that will fit the limitations of a dual layer HD-DVD disc and for HD-DVD, don't spend a lot of time on the PIP and internet parts.

2. Double your efforts and cost to make two completely independent releases that maximize the capabilities of both.

If the cash was coming out of your pocket and you were in it for the money, which way would you go? If you guessed the first option we have a winner!

The retailers don't want it because it means at least twice the number of items per movie to stock. Unlike the video game industry where there are dozens of titles to worry about the video side has potentially many thousands. For example, my local video store has one row with about six sections for games and 39 rows with movies. Imagine some future day when only HDM was there, but evenly divided in two formats. You go in to get and HD-DVD and can only shop half the store because the other half is not in your format. You get a selection of only half what it would be if the other format didn't exist.

Consumer confusion over the two formats and a format war between them when the real battle that HDM needs to focus on is not a rival HD format, but DVD.

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FortySix&2

· #4 · Jan 15, 2008

The 'War' is over.

Everdog

· #5 · Jan 15, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamus /forum/post/12820127

2. Double your efforts and cost to make two completely independent releases that maximize the capabilities of both.

Kind of misleading. Warner used the same encode for both formats.

What does cost more is creating a wide-screen version of a film and then have to re-edit it to make a full-screen version...not to mention editing it again so it can be played on broadcast TV, then re-encoding it to play on ipods, and again for VOD.

btw, studios LOVE multiple formats. New line likes the idea of you possibly buying LotR in the following formats: VHS, standard edition FS, standard edition WS, Extended Edition, VOD, etc.

Look at all the people who have already tripled dipped on movies!

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gnj1958

· #6 · Jan 15, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jocky Wilson /forum/post/12820112

I agree with most of the OP. The format war has been good for customers to a point as it has drastically increased the rate in which HD price drops have occured.

As for getting a cheap HD-DVD player, there are stacks of them on eBay now, so I'm sure you can get one for not much more than the cost of a family meal at Burger King.

I've been watching ebay and haven't seen that many HD DVD players for under $100 and these are used ones with which you don't get the free movies offered on new players.

Calamus

· #7 · Jan 15, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everdog /forum/post/12820220

Kind of misleading. Warner used the same encode for both formats.

Exactly, not enough HDM market to bother maximizing the encodes and doing two separate ones, so take the cheap way out and do one that will fit on HD-DVD and copy it over to BD. Again, its using the least common dominator to reduce your efforts for a small market.

rls_ny

· #8 · Jan 15, 2008

Historically when there is no war tech prices still come down fast. What drives the price down is demand followed by efficiency in the manufacturing process and competition between manufacturers. I'm not convinced the war accelerated the price decrease any more then wouuld have happenned without the war which would likely have resulted in increasing demand. All speculation of course, but it is not a foregone conclusion that the war benefited consumers.

johnnyknoxsvill

· #9 · Jan 15, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by FortySix&2 /forum/post/12820151

The 'War' is over.

Im glad your a proud supporter of HD-DVD!! Welcome to the team

5harkology

· #10 · Jan 15, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by rls_ny /forum/post/12821064

Historically when there is no war tech prices still come down fast. What drives the price down is demand followed by efficiency in the manufacturing process and competition between manufacturers. I'm not convinced the war accelerated the price decrease any more then wouuld have happenned without the war which would likely have resulted in increasing demand. All speculation of course, but it is not a foregone conclusion that the war benefited consumers.

I think a more accurate assumption would be, due to Toshiba we have much lower prices. If BD's prices are this high will aggressive (pricing) competition, it's safe to assume they would be at least slightly higher than they are now.

purple pimpernel

· #11 · Jan 15, 2008

I agree, good for me. Soon i ill be able to get a Blu-ray machine for $199.

Rambler358

· #12 · Jan 15, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by purple pimpernel /forum/post/12821430

I agree, good for me. Soon i ill be able to get a Blu-ray machine for $199.

I've seen some profile 1.0 BD players on eBay for around that price.

jjesusfreak01

· #13 · Jan 15, 2008

The "war" is actually really bad for consumers for multiple reasons. Firstly, you arent any part of it. You are simply collateral damage. Ill explain...

Why is Blu-Ray outselling HD-DVD to begin with? Well, that would be because a good % of the players are PS3s. Sony put a Bluray player in every PS3 home, and took a loss to increase the number of players.

Currently, it seems Sony paid off Fox to stay Blu-Ray, which for production cost reasons was going to switch over to HD-DVD. Warner was then supposedly paid 400 million for their switch to Blu-Ray. So, instead of the cheaper, better, and easier to use format winning the war, it will likely be the more expensive format that wins, and consumers will lose. Sure, Blu-Ray players are alot cheaper than they used to be, but this occurs with all electronics over time. So, what is actually happening is that lots of consumers are going to buy the cheap HD-DVD players, and be perfectly happy until the studios dont produce movies for their format anymore, and then, they lose...and BluRay wins with higher prices for movies and players...Sony wins (now doesnt that just sound wrong)...

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ncted

· #14 · Jan 15, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjesusfreak01 /forum/post/12821905

Sony wins (now doesnt that just sound wrong)...

Jeez, man. You'd think Sony=terrorists. I would have been perfectly happy if HD-DVD was the "winner," but I am actually glad to see the format with the most chance of sticking around for a while is looking like it is going to "win." I don't want to have to buy content on a fourth format. (VHS/Beta, Divex/DVD, and HD/BD being the first three)

In any case, I don't think Sony is as bad as everyone makes them out to be. It is just illogical to think a company is evil. I doubt that even a majority of the board could be called evil, even in the case of companies such as Sony or Microsoft.

Ted

oztech

· #15 · Jan 15, 2008

this war has been bad from the start just read the the threads it has pitted poster against

poster it has confused the average consumer and impeded the growth of hd optical

in order to eventually faze out sd in 5 to 10 years.

James R. Geib

Discussion Starter · #16 · Jan 15, 2008

HD-DVD and Bluray did NOT cuase the bickering and confusion. Lack of advertising and education from Sony and Toshiba caused confusion, and people in general simply love to argue on the Internet. Also, $5 bins of standard DVD's and blockbusters buy 4 for $20 DVD's versus $25 HDM's hindered growth thus far.

The war has nothing to do with either. It's just an excuse to be an ass!

Djoel

· #17 · Jan 15, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by James R. Geib /forum/post/12819821

Personally, I'm glad there are two formats right now, otherwise I wouldn't be enjoying HD movies right now. We would have never seen a $99 player this soon in the game had it not been for both formats. (Having just had a son, built a new home and invested a lot of money in my photography hobby, I simply don't want to spend $300 on an HD player. My $99 player was a birthday present.)

If studios would simply release movies in both formats, there would be no war, and everyone (except Sony) would win.

The longer this drags on, the better the chance I have of getting additional, inexpensive HD-DVD players in the distant future, as well as movies on the cheap. It's a win, win situation for me!

Holly Cow!!! I was just think that, right after I open an email promotion from Amazon and seening a large selection of HD's and BR for 14.99...

War is good.

Djoel

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MichFan

· #18 · Jan 15, 2008

I agree with the OP. The format battle is excellent for consumers. Both sides are having to fight for consumer attention. Sony is doing it by trying to control content while holding margins high for CE's. Toshiba is doing it by keeping margins low and trying to build a large consumer base. Each side has an aspect of their approach that is consumer-friendly, and an aspect that is not. Only when one side offers the full package do they deserve to win. That's good for us!

Why are people concerned about Toshiba responding with low priced HDDVD players? If the war is over it won't have an impact. If the war is still alive, it will force reduction in BD player price and possibly arrival at final standards -- OR -- it will force studios to increase support for HDDVD. This isn't costing you and me a dime. Supporters of the losing side(s) still have functional hardware and software.

This whole idea of "we just have to win the war, then we can focus on being successful" is ridiculous. It's not the real world. You don't hand someone a victory on the promise of good things in the future. You make them earn it first. Don't let emotional attachment to a company or platform blind you to the true benefits of competition.

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griffon2k

· #19 · Jan 15, 2008

Product wars (for technologies as close in execution as Blu-ray and HD DVD) are good for consumers because:

1) There is more than one solution for their needs/wants

2) #1 forces the companies behind said product to compete for consumer's dollars.

Product wars are not good for the business who sell these products because they have to spend more money and far more effort alot earlier than planned for in their business model.

You should take the word of anyone selling you this snake oil that a product or format war is bad for consumers with a rather large grain of salt.

jvillain

· #20 · Jan 15, 2008

Quote:
The war has nothing to do with either. It's just an excuse to be an ass!

Best post I have read in ages.

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

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