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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Would anyone like to chat about the way certain amps have a "Sound"?


I have just tried 2 different amps on my home speakers and was wondering what you guys thought about the type of sound you get with different amps that are available out there.....



My Adcom 555 II was too bright in the mids/highs so I bought a Carver TFM 55x and now I like the mids/highs but the bass is too soft and doesnt hit as hard...



Is there an amp out there that may give me both attributes I'm seeking?



Thanks,

John
 

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Try an Emotiva LPA1. at $499 shipped it's the best bargain in audio. I just got mine on Wed and love it. You also get a 30 day trial so your only cost if you don't like it is return shipping(it weighs 70lbs). emotivaaudio.com
 

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I feel you can tame brightness with an aftermarket power cord, or even a do-it-yourself stranded 12 gauge cord. I like Nordost. You apparently have liked the GFA555II for a long time given its age, so why not just try to improve it a bit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tremor /forum/post/0


Would anyone like to chat about the way certain amps have a "Sound"?


I have just tried 2 different amps on my home speakers and was wondering what you guys thought about the type of sound you get with different amps that are available out there.....



My Adcom 555 II was too bright in the mids/highs so I bought a Carver TFM 55x and now I like the mids/highs but the bass is too soft and doesnt hit as hard...



Is there an amp out there that may give me both attributes I'm seeking?



Thanks,

John
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by webhammer /forum/post/0


I feel you can tame brightness with an aftermarket power cord, or even a do-it-yourself stranded 12 gauge cord. I like Nordost. You apparently have liked the GFA555II for a long time given its age, so why not just try to improve it a bit?


Umm, sure, whatever you say...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I just sold my Adcom 555 II. It was old and did not have a removeable powercord anyway.


Any other ideas??


I dont want to spend a small fortune...what about pro power? Crown? QSC? I'm sure they have tight fast bass, but the mids and highs may be forward sounding, this is all specuation of course and I would rather hear from people using them or something else to give me some ideas on what amp to look for....Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
maybe a GFA-5802 adcom? its supposed to be softer on top than my 555 II, I wonder if the bass on the bottom is as good as my 555 II was...maybe its better?!


I would like to get a better idea before I waste more time and more money buying an amp, like the Carver TFM-55x I just picked up, love the way it sounds for mids and highs, but dissapointed with the low end for sure compared to my Adcom
 

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im sure the problem is most likely with your room's response (too much flat solid surfaces, glass maybe?), and less a problem of the actual electronics. Are you willing to consider acoustical treatments, or is your budget simply limited to amps only?
 

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Umm,

The Carver TFM series is modified with a resistor to tailor its sound to a tube amp ( Im pretty sure )..Its supposed to sound more "tubish" warmer or whatever terms you want to use.

TFM=Tube transfer Function Modified. There is an added resistance to reduce the damping factor


Also reducing the damping factor I would imagine wouldnt be good for the bass part.


Im not surpirsed these two particular amps sound different for the above mentioned reasons.


Most amps sound theoretically the "same" given that they arent driven into "clipping" and that the manufacturer hasnt intentionally modified its to sound different as Carver has done in the past.




John, Im surprised that suggestions for amps are given without any information about your setup..I mean its really kind of useless info imo

What speakers are you using ? how effecient and what ohm are they rated at. Do you run them LARGE or do you have a dedicated subwoofer and use your mains crossed-over ?

Are you mainly HT or Music ( percentage ) ..

So you think your system sounds " bright" with the adcom as your amp ?



PS. If your speakers are bi-ampable. Considering you like that Carver Tubish sound. You should maybe consider the newer Sunfire "carver" amps...They have two ouputs for each speaker. One output is tailored with the resistor to sound warmer/tubish and the other output is a straight connection without the resistor..so the damping factor isnt reduced and you use this output for your bass connection. If this is your sort of bag.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonomega /forum/post/0


im sure the problem is most likely with your room's response (too much flat solid surfaces, glass maybe?), and less a problem of the actual electronics. Are you willing to consider acoustical treatments, or is your budget simply limited to amps only?

I disagree with you on the room being the issue.


I had pulled the amp and installed it in my friends HT. Same exact issues on his system were heard, he also confirmed my findings on the Adcom being brighter
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by psujohny /forum/post/0


Umm,

The Carver TFM series is modified with a resistor to tailor its sound to a tube amp ( Im pretty sure )..Its supposed to sound more "tubish" warmer or whatever terms you want to use.

TFM=Tube transfer Function Modified. There is an added resistance to reduce the damping factor


Also reducing the damping factor I would imagine wouldnt be good for the bass part.


Im not surpirsed these two particular amps sound different for the above mentioned reasons.


Most amps sound theoretically the "same" given that they arent driven into "clipping" and that the manufacturer hasnt intentionally modified its to sound different as Carver has done in the past.




John, Im surprised that suggestions for amps are given without any information about your setup..I mean its really kind of useless info imo

What speakers are you using ? how effecient and what ohm are they rated at. Do you run them LARGE or do you have a dedicated subwoofer and use your mains crossed-over ?

Are you mainly HT or Music ( percentage ) ..

So you think your system sounds " bright" with the adcom as your amp ?


PS. If your speakers are bi-ampable. Considering you like that Carver Tubish sound. You should maybe consider the newer Sunfire "carver" amps...They have two ouputs for each speaker. One output is tailored with the resistor to sound warmer/tubish and the other output is a straight connection without the resistor..so the damping factor isnt reduced and you use this output for your bass connection. If this is your sort of bag.


Yes, its brighter with the Adcom. It's a fact. I have had the amp installed in my friends HT, so, different room, different speakers, ect...same exact forward mids and bright top end is easily heard Vs my Carver AND his Sunfire and even a Yamaha amp we tried. Amps do have very diffeent sounds. You have to A/B them under the right circumstances with identical program material in 2 channel mode to really get a handle on it, but they all are different.



Yes, I'm aware of the Sunfire's capabilty to run voltage source and current source. My Friend is running one. The Sunfire has a warm fat sound on the bottom I do not care for when running it voltage source, when running it current source, it is too weak on bass and has a really tube like sound, seems too slow and doesnt have the attack my adcom 555 II had. So the sunfire I have already ruled out for me.
 

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Would anyone like to chat about the way certain amps have a "Sound"?

This is a complex topic with a simple answer, but 1/2 the people reject that answer.

Instead of starting another amplifier sonic thread, there are tons in cyber, maybe the

the best way to solve this issue is to audition amplifiers until you find the one you like.


As far as proamps are concerned, maybe find a rental place and try one out for a day

to see how they work.


Nobody said audio was an easy hobby, it consumes time and money. I still have

my Adcom 555II amp. It's a good amp, I like it better running bridged mode

with an 8 ohm speaker load. Two in bridge mode is nice.


I also have RMX2450, PLX3402's, and two Crest monsters. They all work well

as long as you operate them in *their region* and each amp has different power

ratings, but the Crest drives 1 ohm loads per channel.
 

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I find this very curious. Amp design is a mature technology and their is no magic in it. Am I reading this correctly in that various manufactures induce "distortion" for want of a better word, to custom tune the sound of their amps instead of building amps that just amplify the signal they receive and nothing else?


To the poster who suggested room acoustics as an issue, kudos. It's amazing to me that so many people who are actively involved in this hobby with a lot of money invested in it don't understand that the sound one hears in the listening room is 95% speaker choice and room acoustics. Assuming reasonable quality, the electronics have very little to do with sound quality. Room treatments on the other hand lead to huge measurable improvements. Ever take a look at a recording studio and see how they maximize sound quality? Room teatments is case you do not know. You will also notice everything is hooked up by stock power cords.


Nick
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick250 /forum/post/0


I find this very curious. Amp design is a mature technology and their is no magic in it. Am I reading this correctly in that various manufactures induce "distortion" for want of a better word, to custom tune the sound of their amps instead of building amps that just amplify the signal they receive and nothing else?


To the poster who suggested room acoustics as an issue, kudos. It's amazing to me that so many people who are actively involved in this hobby with a lot of money invested in it don't understand that the sound one hears in the listening room is 95% speaker choice and room acoustics. Assuming reasonable quality, the electronics have very little to do with sound quality. Room treatments on the other hand lead to huge measurable improvements. Ever take a look at a recording studio and see how they maximize sound quality? Room teatments is case you do not know. You will also notice everything is hooked up by stock power cords.


Nick

I agree that room acoustics and specific speaker contribute the most to the end results. I don't know if it is 95%, but they are the major influencers. Yet, that does still leave a percentage to account for reports from people about the differences in amplifier "sound".


As a case in point, I've been making some changes in my listening room. Things started with a Denon 2805 receiver connected to Klipsch RF5's (and other Klipsch for a 7.1 system---but I'm using just he mains for this illustration). The room has wall to wall carpeting, lots of furniture and drapes in the window. In a room like this, high frequencies tend to be absorbed -- one of the reasons the Klipsch work so well. Their detailed high end isn't lost -- yet they are not overly "bright" (in this setting).


After reading so many threads on the value of an external amp, I added a Crown K1. There was an immediate change in the sound. Now, plenty of reserve power, a higher damping factor resulting in "tighter" bass, yet for want of a better word, "harshness" to the sound.


I eventually replaced the Crown with a Rotel RB1070 amp. Considerably less power, though not a problem since the Klipsch are so efficient. The sound changed again. This time, a larger and deeper soundstage and the "edge" was off of instruments such as violins.


Currently, though I still have the Denon for HT, I've replaced all the electronics in the chain with Rotel: added a pre-amp and the RCD1072 CD player. The sound changed again. An even bigger soundfield, greater depth and more separation.


So....same room, same speakers....different electronics....different results.


Now, to be fair, none of these combinations were truly "unlistenable". However, each change brought a different and, in my opinion only, a better result.


I'm about to swap out the Klipsch for a set of B&W CM 7s. While the changes in electronics brought incremental subtle changes, I suspect that the switch from Klipsch to B&W will be much more dramatic.


So, back to the original question. The designers at Denon, Crown and Rotel all apparently have different ideas about what ultimate "sound" their amps will have. Which of the three is "right"?
 

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Quote:
I find this very curious. Amp design is a mature technology and their is no magic in it. Am I reading this correctly in that various manufactures induce "distortion" for want of a better word, to custom tune the sound of their amps instead of building amps that just amplify the signal they receive and nothing else?

Sunfire does on some models. Im sure there are others as well.

Personally I wouldnt want an amp that has its own "sound". I want an amp that has no sound of its own at all, just amplifies and gets out of the way..doubles watts as ohms goes down and is stable down into the lower ohms with a "bigger the better" torodial transformer and Im all set.
 

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Someone posted an article where listeners could not statisically determine amp differences in ABX comparisons. That included a cheap receiver alongside a $20,000 amp.


That's not to say YOU can't hear a difference...but that article made me suspect of all statements made about amps having signatures.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by petergaryr /forum/post/0


So, back to the original question. The designers at Denon, Crown and Rotel all apparently have different ideas about what ultimate "sound" their amps will have. Which of the three is "right"?

the answer is obviously rotel


 
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