AVS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 2140 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
802 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I started this thread becasue for the most part all the info reagrding the X-Meridian is lost in other threads. This will make th info easiers to find. If you guys would like to continue the discussion here.


I see alot of people going to the LM4562's, I still have to wait for mine. I have since tried the 2134's, the 2227's and the 2107's. All those amps are better they ar very hard to compare to each other BUT I decided I liked the "color" of the OPA2107's the best. Of course I want to try the LM4562's when I get them. I am also very interested in the ideas behind these other mods users are trying.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
452 Posts
Thanks ROBSCIX for this thread. It's a good idea. My X-Meridian is scheduled to be delivered today. I have OPA2134s ready to go for it and OPA2107s on order. I still haven't found any supplier with LM4562s in stock, so I haven't been able to order those yet.
Anyway, I probably won't get to any serious listening until this weekend.


I'll report back with my auditory impressions, compared to my OPA2134-modded Revo 7.1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
I am in a diferant situation. Have LM4562's the X-Merridian is on backorder and ships friday.For now using a creative X-FI as a pre/pro into a 7 chanel amp. I have decided to stick with 5.1 . Can the side speaker outs be used with the front speaker outs with an active crossover software program in the digital domain for biamping the front left and right speakers? Also the crossover would have to remain active during 5.1. When listening to music I use musicmatch in 2.1. What software would one recomend as i would want to do this in the digital domain before the signal hits the opamps? Thanks Robscix as this will make tracking this thread easy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
452 Posts
I installed my brand new X-Meridian today, and it's a complete no-go.


1. The card I received appears to be broken. It's a good thing I didn't just go ahead and hook its analog outputs up to my power amps and speakers - instead I connected its L and R outputs to my oscilloscope first to have a look at its output levels. (I was planning to build resistive pads to reduce the levels, as I had heard that its output level is 5 Vrms for a 0-dBFS input signal -- this is an outrageously high output level and would drive any power amp I've seen well into clipping.) Anyway, the analog outputs from this card are all rail-to-rail distorted hash whenever anything is playing. I would have surely blown some speaker drivers, and my ears, if I had it hooked up normally.


2. I did have a chance to play with the card's driver UI, and I don't like it at all. The main problem is that there are no distance or time delay adjustments for the L, R front speakers or the subwoofer. Delay adjustments are provided only for the center, side and rear speakers (and the sides and rears are adjusted in pairs, not individually). This means I can't adjust the phase of my subwoofer relative to the L and R main speakers for max level (minimum cancellation) at the crossover frequency. There's not even a way to invert the subwoofer output 180 degrees.


3. Lots of little things wrong with the driver controls:

- The few delay adjustments that exist are in milliseconds, not distance, so I have to measure the distances and calculate the time delays using the speed of sound in air.

- The individual speaker level controls are adjustable in 1-dB increments, which is too coarse for spot-on setups. It's also very hard to control the slider finely enough to get even those 1-dB steps easily. 96 dB of range is compressed into just a tiny space on the screen, and a tiny bit of mouse movement. I found no other way to set these levels except by moving the tiny sliders with my mouse.

- Gone are the nice individual channel level meters, and individual channel solo and mute controls of the M-Audio driver. There are lots of pretty pictures and wacko effects available (none of which I'd use) in the X-Meridian driver, but the pro-audio roots of the M-Audio folks are obvious in their driver's UI, and obviously lacking in the X-Meridian's.


At this point I'm not sure whether to return the card for exchange, or for a refund. The lack of subwoofer delay adjustment is a deal killer for me. If I can find how to do it easily on the Auzentech Web site, I'll send them a message with my issue, and we'll see if they will fix this egregious oversight in their driver just for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiophile /forum/post/0


2. I did have a chance to play with the card's driver UI, and I don't like it at all. The main problem is that there are no distance or time delay adjustments for the L, R front speakers or the subwoofer. Delay adjustments are provided only for the center, side and rear speakers (and the sides and rears are adjusted in pairs, not individually). This means I can't adjust the phase of my subwoofer relative to the L and R main speakers for max level (minimum cancellation) at the crossover frequency. There's not even a way to invert the subwoofer output 180 degrees.


3. Lots of little things wrong with the driver controls:

- The few delay adjustments that exist are in milliseconds, not distance, so I have to measure the distances and calculate the time delays using the speed of sound in air.

- The individual speaker level controls are adjustable in 1-dB increments, which is too coarse for spot-on setups. It's also very hard to control the slider finely enough to get even those 1-dB steps easily. 96 dB of range is compressed into just a tiny space on the screen, and a tiny bit of mouse movement. I found no other way to set these levels except by moving the tiny sliders with my mouse.

- Gone are the nice individual channel level meters, and individual channel solo and mute controls of the M-Audio driver. There are lots of pretty pictures and wacko effects available (none of which I'd use) in the X-Meridian driver, but the pro-audio roots of the M-Audio folks are obvious in their driver's UI, and obviously lacking in the X-Meridian's.


At this point I'm not sure whether to return the card for exchange, or for a refund. The lack of subwoofer delay adjustment is a deal killer for me. If I can find how to do it easily on the Auzentech Web site, I'll send them a message with my issue, and we'll see if they will fix this egregious oversight in their driver just for me.

I just order this card. but have not installed it yet. I read through the manual online before purchasing, and seen the screen for channel delay's, but never noticed that the Sub and Fronts can't be set! How much of a difference will this make at my listening position, being 12 feet from the fronts?? The delay being in milliseconds, isn't a real killer, because I think that 1ms = 1.1 ft approx., if that is wrong please correct me.


Also does anyone no if the Soundblaster X-Fi, has delay settings for all there channels?


That is a real bummer with the X-Meridian, I thought it was being marketed for HTPC, and not for PC use were you sit 6" from the fronts so it dosn't matter!


Hopefully this can be fixed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
I can't change anything with my sub on my X-Fi either. Why do you need to change the front delay? You can use the front speaker as a reference and set the delay on the rear and centre speaker. I thought that a bass sound is non-directional(a 50Hz sound will have a period of 20ms) and you should also set your speaker symmetrical to the listening position. To invert the woofer output 180 degrees, just reverse the polarity of your cable. Btw you can change the volume level for a single speaker on X-Meridian accurately by clicking the "+" and "-" sign, using the slider is much trickier.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by alg7_munif /forum/post/0


I can't change anything with my sub on my X-Fi either. Why do you need to change the front delay? You can use the front speaker as a reference and set the delay on the rear and centre speaker. I thought that a bass sound is non-directional and you should also set your speaker symmetrical to the listening position. To invert the woofer output 180 degrees, just reverse the polarity of your cable. Btw you can change the volume level for a single speaker on X-Meridian accurately by clicking the "+" and "-" sign, using the slider is much trickier.

The sub delay is not a killer, I can't set it with my current A/V reciever. I don't think that you can use the fronts as a "reference" for delay, but for setting the overall sound level it is true. Delay is the time from when the sound is proccesed to the time you here it. If you are sitting 20 feet away from a speaker, it will take approx. 20 ms for the sound to reach your ears. If you are watching a 5.1 dvd, and have the center set at 13ms or 13ft and have the fronts at 0, than a sound that is panning the front stage will not sound right, it won't be a smooth image.


It may be possible that the X-meridian software is referencing the center channel delay and using that for the fronts?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
 The front speaker should be setup furthest away from you, the centre channel is a little nearer, and the surround channel is the nearest to you , the delay is used to make sure that the sound from all speakers reach you at the same time. Why do you still want to delay the front channels since they are supposed to be setup furthest away from you? If you don't use any delay on the centre and rear channels, the sound from your front speakers will be the last to reach you ears. On X-Meridian they use ms because it is the time for the sound to come out from the rear/channel speakers after the sound came out from the front speakers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
802 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I may be differnt but I set my XM the way I want it then I set my player software and filters to dial in specific settings like bass level indiviual delays, individual volume setting etc. It would be nice to have these setting within the drivers. Truth be told I would love to have a whole mess of setting within my XM drivers becasue this card desearves to have such detailed settings for sound. Do we have any programmers out there?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by alg7_munif /forum/post/0

The front speaker should be setup furthest away from you, the centre channel is a little nearer, and the surround channel is the nearest to you , the delay is used to make sure that the sound from all speakers reach you at the same time. Why do you still want to delay the front channels since they are supposed to be setup furthest away from you? If you don't use any delay on the centre and rear channels, the sound from your front speakers will be the last to reach you ears. On X-Meridian they use ms because it is the time for the sound to come out from the rear/channel speakers after the sound came out from the front speakers.

I think that I understand what you are saying now, it is just different than what I have done in the past. You are saying that for example:


Speaker Distance to Listing Position.


Left Front 10 feet - 0ms

Center 11 feet - 1ms

Right Front 10 feet - 0ms

Left Surround 12 ft - 2ms

Right Surroung 13 ft - 3 ms


You set delay relevant to the differance in distance from the mains.


One more question, can the delay for the surrounds be negetive ms, because in my setup the surrounds are closer to my seat than the mains are.


Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,734 Posts
Damn, that makes no sense. I've always had my front three speakers equidistant to the sweet spot. The surrounds are a little closer, but I didn't have a choice.


I've always read that all speakers should be the same distance, with the same length of cable to all speakers. Subs of course are the only exclusion. But, if they can't be the same distance, that's what the delays are for.


And I always use my receiver to set delays.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
No, it is like this :


Left front and right front: 12ft 0ms

Centre: 9ft ~3ms

Surround: 5ft ~6ms


Your centre will always be nearer to you than the fronts(phytagoras). If you don't add any delay to your surround channels and centre, the sound from the surround channels will reach you first, then the centre and finally the fronts. Btw I didn't calculate how much delay it should be, I just make up the values above. IMO the cables don't have to be at the same length because electromagnetic waves are much faster than sound waves, the difference due to different cable length is negligible compared to the difference due to the different speaker distance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
802 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
OK, to everybody. If you could have any settings yo would like in the X-Meridian driver what would they be?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
Delay settings for alll channels, so I can set them the same way that I do for any A/V reciever on the market. Measurments in Feet from each speaker, to your main listning position. That is how delay is set.


If anyone else can please post there input on the delay topic, other than the biased opinions of myself and alg7_munif, it would be appriciated.


Anyway I hope the argument on delay settings, is not too off topic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBSCIX /forum/post/0


If you could have any settings yo would like in the X-Meridian driver what would they be?

A check box for getting bit accurate sound! No resampling, no DolbyThis, no dtsThat, no equalizer, no delays, only volume adjust allowed by the DAC chips, with status for the current data size/rate! With the control panel, I'm not given good feedback that all the crap is off and I'm getting the most pure sound possible. I didn't buy it for all the logos on the box, damn it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
When you set the measurements in feet, the receiver will set the time delay for you but on X-Meridian you need to set the time delay yourself. The delay means that how much time in miliseconds the sound will come out from the centre/surround speakers after the sound came out from the front speaker. Think it this way, if 5 people shoot you at the same time from 5 different locations just like the speakers are setup, the bullets from the "surround channel" will hit you first. To let all bullets hit you at the same time, the person who is shooting from the "surround channel" needs to wait for a while(delay) after the person at front channel has fired a shot.


Edit: To calculate how much delay that you need you can use this formula:

(distance from front speaker - distance from centre or surround speaker)/1.128


For example in this picture :


The delay for the surround speaker will be:

(12-5)/1.128

=7/1.128

=6.2ms~6ms


The delay for the centre speaker will be:

(12-9)/1.128

=3/1.128

=2.65ms~3ms
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
802 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I mean settings in reagrd to setting up surround sound properly. Setting you would find on a top quality HT receiver. What settings would you want? Or perhaps what settings are missing that your used to seeing? Phase? delay? Maybe if we had a list of things we wanted we can get them added somehow.. I would think:

individual delays for all channels in feet or ms

Delay for sub and phase settings.

indivdual volume levels



what else?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
425 Posts
This is why you should be using the digital out, not set any delays at all and let your home theater pre-pro do the delay work since you should only need to set it once in there for all input sources since it uses the same output path (you presumably only have one set of surround sound speakers that the pre-processor is connected with).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,344 Posts
wow
!!!! it didn't take this thread long to degenerate.... less than 20 posts and already it's fallen into the bitperfect-digital/analog morass


 
1 - 20 of 2140 Posts
Top