[Wizziwig]

So as we all know, Intel has a setting in their iGPU control panel which allows you to select the quantization range (limited or full) that is most appropriate for you display.





But as we all know, this setting doesn't actually do anything for most people. It seems to always use limited 16-235 range and the control panel option doesn't stick - it reverts back from full to limited on its own.


I find it hard to believe Intel would have such a long-standing bug in their drivers so I did some digging through the HDMI/CEA861 specs. Based on the specs, a device connected through HDMI that is using one of the pre-defined HDTV modes (1080i, 720p, etc.) is required to send limited range. The HDMI device is only allowed to send full-range if the display's EDID includes a "Video Capability Block" that containins the "Quantization Range Selectable" flag. This flag tells the player (iGPU in this case) that your display can handle both limited and full-range input.


My theory is that Intel is very strict about following these standards and therefore ignores the control panel setting when it doesn't find the above flag in the EDID.


Since I don't own any displays that enable the "Quantization Range Selectable" flag, I can't test my theory. I was hoping some users in this forum could help out.


To test if your display has the correct flag, examine your EDID using Entech MonInfo utilty:

http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm (download link on the left side of page).


1) Run the Monitor Asset Manager (MonInfo) utility.

2) Select your monitor under the Display IDs section on the left. Should also say [Real-time ...] next to all your connected displays.

3) On the right side you will now get an "Asset Information" display listing information about your monitor.

4) You can save the report to upload here or just copy/paste it.

5) Look for an area like this:


CE video capability data

CE scan behavior......... Supports overscan and underscan

IT scan behavior......... Always underscanned

PT scan behavior......... Supports overscan and underscan

RGB quantization range... Selectable (via AVI YQ)

YCC quantization range... Selectable (via AVI YQ)


If your display has the RGB quantization range listed as "Selectable (via AVI YQ)", please try to toggle the Intel control panel quantization range setting and see if it has any effect. Also close the control panel and check if the setting "sticks" or reverts back to "limited" when you reopen it.


Thanks.

 

[renethx]

IIRC "Quantization Range" has been completely removed from the driver's UI since June 2012 (version 8.15.10.2761).

 

[jim2100]



Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx  /t/1477460/theory-about-intels-hdmi-quantization-range-setting-full-0-255#post_23432717


IIRC "Quantization Range" has been completely removed from the driver's UI since June 2012 (version 8.15.10.2761).

Right. I haven't seen it in a long time. I don't know exactly when it was removed, but that time sounds about right.

 

[Mfusick]

My Haswell has issues. I am getting 0-255 on my 26" Samsung monitor but only 16-235 on my 23" Samsung monitor on HDMI. It shows up as a digital TV over HDMI too..


I've messed with the settings without any luck so far.

 

[StinDaWg]

I saw a thread in the Intel forums from one of the staff members that said this is fixed in a new beta driver. I know people have been complaining about it for over a year.

 

[Wizziwig]



Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx  /t/1477460/theory-about-intels-hdmi-quantization-range-setting-full-0-255#post_23432717


IIRC "Quantization Range" has been completely removed from the driver's UI since June 2012 (version 8.15.10.2761).

Really? I've been on old drivers because they at least allowed full-range HDMI with custom resolutions enabled. Didn't know they removed the option entirely. Probably did it so they don't get a ton of tech support requests from people who couldn't get it working.


Looks like it might be back if you look at this:
http://www.anandtech.com/Gallery/Album/2829#10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick  /t/1477460/theory-about-intels-hdmi-quantization-range-setting-full-0-255#post_23433092


My Haswell has issues. I am getting 0-255 on my 26" Samsung monitor but only 16-235 on my 23" Samsung monitor on HDMI. It shows up as a digital TV over HDMI too..


I've messed with the settings without any luck so far.

Can you post your MonInfo EDID log from the HDMI connected monitor?

 

[renethx]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig  /t/1477460/theory-about-intels-hdmi-quantization-range-setting-full-0-255#post_23433647


Looks like it might be back if you look at this:
http://www.anandtech.com/Gallery/Album/2829#10

This is for "Input Range". Output range is always Limited-range RGB.

 

[Wizziwig]



Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx  /t/1477460/theory-about-intels-hdmi-quantization-range-setting-full-0-255#post_23433661


This is for "Input Range". Output range is always Limited-range RGB.

You're right. I missed that part. This is only for video playback and won't effect desktop color output at all.


Hmm.... I wonder if Intel maybe disabled or removed the option when your HDMI display doesn't have the "Quantization Range Selectable" flag. That would be a lot less confusing than having a non-working option like on older drivers.


We still need someone who has this flag available to test various flavors of Intel drivers to see if they even care about this flag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick  /t/1477460/theory-about-intels-hdmi-quantization-range-setting-full-0-255#post_23433688


How do I do that ?

See first post of this thread. I added more detailed instructions for using the MonInfo tool.


FYI,


Looks like the latest Ivy Bridge and Haswell drivers are available here:
http://asder00.blogspot.de/2013/05/intel-hd-graphics-15.31.11.3186-audio-6.16.0.3106.html


Latest Sandy Bridge:
http://asder00.blogspot.it/2013/06/intel-hd-graphics-15.28.17.3190-audio-6.14.0.3097.html

 

[Mfusick]

I figured out how to fix my black level issue on my 4770k Intel machine.

 

[Robin Mitra]

seeing is believing

 

[Mfusick]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Mitra  /t/1477460/theory-about-intels-hdmi-quantization-range-setting-full-0-255#post_23551171


seeing is believing

I added a GPU card

 

[cybrsage]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick  /t/1477460/theory-about-intels-hdmi-quantization-range-setting-full-0-255#post_23551683


I added a GPU card

Oh, I thought you moved to an AMD APU.

 

[Robin Mitra]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick  /t/1477460/theory-about-intels-hdmi-quantization-range-setting-full-0-255#post_23551683


I added a GPU card

That's cheating

 

[Mfusick]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage  /t/1477460/theory-about-intels-hdmi-quantization-range-setting-full-0-255#post_23552775


Oh, I thought you moved to an AMD APU.

I just reused my old AMD Radeon XFX 6870 X2 video card.

 

[fraggermcg]

Just about to start setting up my new i3 w/ intel HD4000 as I've finally had enough with all the problems on my old AMD 240e and ATI5670 HTPC I built a few years ago.


This limited vs full range thing has always confused me since the day I first built an HTPC back in 2005 or 6! Can someone tell me briefly please what I should be setting and calibrating to get it all to work? From this thread and others I know the intels will only do limited range so I'll need to recalibrate.


Should I change my Denon amp from full to limited as well? How do I calibrate using eg DVE's HD Basics blu ray that I bought a few years back, as I understand it's all set up on the assumption you can see the BTB/WTW patterns which if I understand correctly I won't with the intel limited range RGB?


Any other help or pointers much appreciated!

 

[adam1991]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig  /t/1477460/theory-about-intels-hdmi-quantization-range-setting-full-0-255#post_23431822


My theory is that Intel is very strict about following these standards

actually, it sounds as if Intel is simply following the standard. There's no degree of following a standard; either one follows the standard, or one doesn't. There is no "strict" or "lax".


With respect to HDMI, what would you have Intel do? Not follow the standard?

 

[Nevcairiel]



Quote:
Originally Posted by adam1991  /t/1477460/theory-about-intels-hdmi-quantization-range-setting-full-0-255#post_23558100


With respect to HDMI, what would you have Intel do? Not follow the standard?

Yes, please, so we could actually use it properly.

Contrary to your believe, there is such a thing as "strict" standard following, and there is following the standard, but letting the user override, because there certainly are plenty users that would want/need to do this, and the other vendors allow this.

Of course you can argue that Intel did nothing wrong and its just following the standard, but at the end of the day, us people that need/want full range over HDMI will still buy another GPU to handle this (but Intel wouldn't care, since you most likely own their CPU with iGPU already anyway)

 

[JerryW]

I'm in 100% agreement. Standards are intended as good defaults but rigid enforcement is simply a hindrance. That applies to just about any technical standard.

 

[Robin Mitra]

Does edid override help? I mean the old document from MS about .inf files, is that still valid?

 

[Robertos]



Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg  /t/1477460/theory-about-intels-hdmi-quantization-range-setting-full-0-255#post_23433100


I saw a thread in the Intel forums from one of the staff members that said this is fixed in a new beta driver. I know people have been complaining about it for over a year.

could you post a link to that thread? it was 2 month ago maybe something has changed...