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There are two types of 3D televisions!

5768 Views 46 Replies 13 Participants Last post by Frank, Sep 17, 2011

Frank

Discussion Starter · Aug 13, 2011

2

I'm not referring to passive versus active.

Those that only support HDMI 1.4x 3D formats and those that support additional modes that allow scalable 3D and even multiple 3D windows onscreen simultaneously

This is a fundamental difference and most people are apparently not aware of it.

This might effect the purchasing choices of some people and this information is virtually non existent.

This should be in under the topic called:
Infrequently Asked Questions!

I know there is no such topic but there should be.

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1 - 20 of 47 Posts

Richard Adams

· #2 · Aug 13, 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank /forum/post/20817545

I'm not referring to passive versus active.

Those that only support HDMI 1.4x 3D formats and those that support additional modes that allow scalable 3D and even multiple 3D windows onscreen simultaneously

This is a fundamental difference and most people are apparently not aware of it.

This might effect the purchasing choices of some people and this information is virtually non existent.

This should be in under the topic called:
Infrequently Asked Questions!

I know there is no such topic but there should be.

So how can we determine this for a particular TV?

Frank

Discussion Starter · #3 · Aug 13, 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams /forum/post/20818260

So how can we determine this for a particular TV?

That's the question isn't it!

I spent weeks trying to find out if the new 011 Samsung Plasmas supported it.

I was never sure until I got one in, hooked it up and found out it only supported HDMI 1.4 so I returned it.

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tory40

· #4 · Aug 13, 2011

Side comment: Frank, I would think people would find the sentence in your sig, "full screen only 3d doesn't cut it" very confusing. Im very knowledgeable about 3d, and i don't really think i even get it.

Frank

Discussion Starter · #5 · Aug 13, 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by tory40 /forum/post/20818388

Side comment: Frank, I would think people would find the sentence in your sig, "full screen only 3d doesn't cut it" very confusing. Im very knowledgeable about 3d, and i don't really think i even get it.

One problem with 3D being limited to full screen only is the fact that the optimum viewing of 3D is a combination of the image size and the viewer's distance from it.

I often find that I prefer to reduce the size of the 3D window to make it easier on my eyes.

In fact, most of my 3D viewing is less then full screen.

peter0328

· #6 · Aug 14, 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank /forum/post/20818287

That's the question isn't it!

I spent weeks trying to find out if the new 011 Samsung Plasmas supported it.

I was never sure until I got one in, hooked it up and found out it only supported HDMI 1.4 so I returned it.

The LED7000+ support it according to the manual: http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/co...ATSCA-1018.pdf

Just has to be 1920x1080 with PC mode over HDMI just like 2010.

The manual doesn't mention Plasma support though which is weird.

Frank

Discussion Starter · #7 · Aug 14, 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter0328 /forum/post/20818730

The LED7000+ support it according to the manual: http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/co...ATSCA-1018.pdf

Just has to be 1920x1080 with PC mode over HDMI just like 2010.

The manual doesn't mention Plasma support though which is weird.

That's because Samsung, for no known reason dropped support for the additional 3D modes on the new Plasmas. That's why I exchanged my new Samsung PN64D8000 for last years model the PN63C7000 which I love.

It makes a great 3D computer monitor which is primarily what it is.

When I show people 3D for the first time they are always amazed and impressed.
The problem comes when I explain that my demos will not work with many brands of 3D televisions and even I am not sure which ones will work.

Frank

Discussion Starter · #8 · Aug 14, 2011

When people ask me for recommendations for what 3D television to buy, I can only tell them to avoid Sony and Panasonic as they only support HDMI 1.4x formats and nothing else.

Keep in mind that this is in response to people who have seen my demonstrations. When I try to explain why my demos only work on some brands they all find it hard to believe.

cakefoo

· #9 · Aug 15, 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank /forum/post/20817545

I'm not referring to passive versus active.

Those that only support HDMI 1.4x 3D formats and those that support additional modes that allow scalable 3D and even multiple 3D windows onscreen simultaneously

This is a fundamental difference and most people are apparently not aware of it.

This might effect the purchasing choices of some people and this information is virtually non existent.

This should be in under the topic called:
Infrequently Asked Questions!

I know there is no such topic but there should be.

Frequently made threads: Frank sings the praises of the checkerboard 3D format.

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Frank

Discussion Starter · #10 · Aug 15, 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by cakefoo /forum/post/20822966

Frequently made threads: Frank sings the praises of the checkerboard 3D format.

The point of my threads is always to present potentially useful information that is not available anywhere else.

I hope it's not a waste of time and even adds a little humor occasionally.

DenisG

· #11 · Aug 15, 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by tory40 /forum/post/20818388

Side comment: Frank, I would think people would find the sentence in your sig, "full screen only 3d doesn't cut it" very confusing. Im very knowledgeable about 3d, and i don't really think i even get it.

He wants 50 windows open on the screen, while on the treadmill, and running his remote control car while doing back flips and rubbing his stomach while patting his head. All at the same time of course.

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Frank

Discussion Starter · #12 · Aug 15, 2011

2

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenisG /forum/post/20823287

He wants 50 windows open on the screen, while on the treadmill, and running his remote control car while doing back flips and rubbing his stomach while patting his head. All at the same time of course.

That's a good one.

Actually I was a pretty good tumbler long ago.

Here is an example of just one of the problems I have with 3DTVs:

I am interested in buying a passive 3DTV and an important consideration is how it works when hooked to a computer.

The primary audio and video source would be my media computer and I like to use programs like Stereo Photo Maker and Stereoscopic Player and prefer to watch YouTube 3D videos in the browser window instead of full screen and only invoke full screen when appropriate. I'll leave out some of the more technical things I do.
How do I determine if a particular model will work and if it works, how it looks?

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peter0328

· #13 · Aug 16, 2011

Frank, have you heard that NVIDIA 3D Vision now supports windowed 3D mode for the 120Hz computer monitors? Not sure if that info helps you or not but thought I would point it out in case you didn't know.

Frank

Discussion Starter · #14 · Aug 16, 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter0328 /forum/post/20826499

Frank, have you heard that NVIDIA 3D Vision now supports windowed 3D mode for the 120Hz computer monitors? Not sure if that info helps you or not but thought I would point it out in case you didn't know.

Thanks. Yeah, I knew about it but it doesn't help my situation. I stopped using 3D vision over a year ago and loaned out both my 120 hertz monitors.

I do wonder whether I might be able to take advantage of it with a 120 hertz 1920 by 1080 3D projector but I don't know of any.

After a year of windowed 3D I can never go back to full screen only 3D.

Just ain't gonna happen.

patsw

· #15 · Aug 18, 2011

The OP mentioned other modes without listing them. What are they?

Frank

Discussion Starter · #16 · Aug 18, 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsw /forum/post/20838940

The OP mentioned other modes without listing them. What are they?

line interleaved

column interleaved

frame sequential

checkerboard

All Mitsubishi televisions support windowed 3D because their native format is checkerboard.

All passives should but probably don't even though their native format is line interleaved.

All Samsung flat panels support all of the above modes except for the new 2011 plasmas.

I believe the active LG's support checkerboard and possibly others but I'm not sure.

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blaket81

· #17 · Aug 24, 2011

Hi Frank, i'm sorry but i'm a little confused with this thread. I thought to be full HD 3D, hdmi 1.4 was an absolute necessity, and that it wasn't possible with 1.3 (other modes). If TV's exist that don't follow this blind plan i'd love to know because i have a receiver at home that is 1.3 that i'm not ready to replace yet. i just got it last year, it was not cheap, so i'm not replacing it unless i could get a good price for it. Due to this situation I wasn't going to buy a 3D TV. If you can get full HD 3D on certain TV's using 1.3 i'm all over it! If i'm misunderstanding this thread please someone let me know.

Frank

Discussion Starter · #18 · Aug 24, 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by blaket81 /forum/post/20861740

Hi Frank, i'm sorry but i'm a little confused with this thread. I thought to be full HD 3D, hdmi 1.4 was an absolute necessity, and that it wasn't possible with 1.3 (other modes). If TV's exist that don't follow this blind plan i'd love to know because i have a receiver at home that is 1.3 that i'm not ready to replace yet. i just got it last year, it was not cheap, so i'm not replacing it unless i could get a good price for it. Due to this situation I wasn't going to buy a 3D TV. If you can get full HD 3D on certain TV's using 1.3 i'm all over it! If i'm misunderstanding this thread please someone let me know.

The meaning of "full HD 3D" is not clear to me and I've been doing 3D for a long time.

To clarify, HDMI 1.4 is an absolute requirement for certain 3D content but not all.

The vast majority of the 3D my friends and family watch works quite well without any need for HDMI 1.4.

However, it requires a computer to make it work.

The other modes I refer to such as interleaved and checkerboard will never replace HDMI 1.4 but can compliment it quite well for certain applications using a computer.

I have a computer on a rack in my office that supplies virtually all of my 3D content and feeds 3D content to most of the rooms of my house and does not require HDMI 1.4 to work.

One of my major gripes with the state of 3D today is that lack of support for viewing 3D in any other way then full screen.

It's a piece of cake using a computer and the additional modes I refer to.

Here is a YouTube video showing just one of the many ways you can take advantage of the additional 3D modes of some 3D televisions.

3D pictures using a 2D camera[/URL]

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blaket81

· #19 · Aug 24, 2011

Thanks for the reply Frank. "full hd 3d" from what i've understood is essentially 2 1080p images for each eye, it also requires active not passive. Other forms of 3D, Passive, "side by side", "top-down" are not full hd 3d. I'm not sure what those mean or if i even have the terms right, i just now they are examples of 3D that are not full HD. I've also read elsewhere that i can get some forms of these through my 1.3 standard, but not all, and not the better ones. Thank you again for clarifying.

walford

· #20 · Aug 24, 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank /forum/post/20838982

line interleaved

column interleaved

frame sequential

checkerboard

All Mitsubishi televisions support windowed 3D because their native format is checkerboard.

All passives should but probably don't even though their native format is line interleaved.

All Samsung flat panels support all of the above modes except for the new 2011 plasmas.

I believe the active LG's support checkerboard and possibly others but I'm not sure.

Frank,

I can't find my list of the HDMI 1.4 optional resolutions but I believe the 4 resolutions you posted are all optional HDMI 1.4 resolutions for displays/TV's which is why very few TV's support them.

1 - 20 of 47 Posts

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