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I just built them. You can follow the link in my signature to the build thread. The crossovers come complete ready to go. The box is not overly complex to build. Jed is great to work with. I think it is a great product that is a very, very good value. After the new year I will finish my build thread with some opinions on the sound.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Bill,


Yours are simply a thing off beauty. Absolutely stunning mate. They look really good in the room. I have monitor audio RS speakers at the moment so it would be good to compare to. I have an onkyo 876 which I currently bi amp the fronts with the spare surround channels. The kit is pretty cheap for what you get.


Do you find they stay composed even at loud volumes and what was you running prior to these.


Your build thread is so good, I am going back to have another look at it.


cheers


Graham
 

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Quote:
Do you find they stay composed even at loud volumes and what was you running prior to these.
What SPL do you want? They are definitely SPL limited compared to Waveguide designs and they will not match the SPL of your subwoofers. That does not mean they are bad, Im sure they sound awesome played within their limits but you just have to know their limits.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi there,


Basically I am happy with what I have all be it I want more oomph up front. I can run my monitor Audios at reference crossed at 80hz with no issues at all and what sounds like very little distortion as everything is still very composed. I want more mid bass front the front three.


These are the speakers I had previous and loved them but had to sell them.


Fronts:

http://www.sevenoakssoundandvision.c...3/content.aspx


Centre:

http://gadgets.softpedia.com/gadgets...aker-6181.html


I would like more bass and definition basically.


cheers


Graham
 

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All roads don't lead to SPL. The question is can the speaker your choose reach your desired listening level with headroom?


Penn is the Waveguide the best sounding speaker you have heard?


Lets look at this. I am shaky on the math but this is my shot at it.


The speakers are 88 db.


88 = 1 watt

91 = 2 watts

94 = 4

97 = 8

100 = 16

103 = 32

106 = 64

109 = 128

111 = 256


I believe Reference is 105 db. You lose db because of distance. I listen at -10, -8 if i am getting nutty.


I am going to be driving them with 200 watts. I think I am good.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gperkins1973
Bill,


Yours are simply a thing off beauty. Absolutely stunning mate. They look really good in the room. I have monitor audio RS speakers at the moment so it would be good to compare to. I have an onkyo 876 which I currently bi amp the fronts with the spare surround channels. The kit is pretty cheap for what you get.


Do you find they stay composed even at loud volumes and what was you running prior to these.


Your build thread is so good, I am going back to have another look at it.


cheers


Graham
Thanks for the kind words. I am having a receiver problem right now so I don't want to comment on the sound. After the new year I will have a new receiver and amp in place and will give my take on the sound.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by t6902wf
All roads don't lead to SPL. The question is can the speaker your choose reach your desired listening level with headroom?


Penn is the Waveguide the best sounding speaker you have heard?


Lets look at this. I am shaky on the math but this is my shot at it.


The speakers are 88 db.


88 = 1 watt

91 = 2 watts

94 = 4

97 = 8

100 = 16

103 = 32

106 = 64

109 = 128

111 = 256


I believe Reference is 105 db. You lose db because of distance. I listen at -10, -8 if i am getting nutty.


I am going to be driving them with 200 watts. I think I am good.
THX reference level stuff is not meaningful to me. The only thing that matters is your listening distance and the SPL levels you want. You figure those out and then add +25dBs because that will give you the needed SPL peaks for movies.



My listening distance is 12 feet, my SPL needs are anywhere from 70dB to 85dB. This means at 1m my speakers need to do 116dB clean (85dB + 6dB + 25dB=116dB).


No
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gperkins1973
Hi there,


Basically I am happy with what I have all be it I want more oomph up front. I can run my monitor Audios at reference crossed at 80hz with no issues at all and what sounds like very little distortion as everything is still very composed. I want more mid bass front the front three.


These are the speakers I had previous and loved them but had to sell them.


Fronts:

http://www.sevenoakssoundandvision.c...3/content.aspx


Centre:

http://gadgets.softpedia.com/gadgets...aker-6181.html


I would like more bass and definition basically.


cheers


Graham
Very nice looking speakers!


Something you should know about "midbass", I searched for it for many years and you may think because the 4T has 4 woofers that it should have HUGE midbass slam but you have to look at the drivers, their specs and how they are used in the design.


IMO, only larger pro audio drivers produce the midbass performance needed to match high end subsystems.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray
THX reference level stuff is not meaningful to me. The only thing that matters is your listening distance and the SPL levels you want. You figure those out and then add +25dBs because that will give you the needed SPL peaks for movies.



My listening distance is 12 feet, my SPL needs are anywhere from 70dB to 85dB. This means at 1m my speakers need to do 116dB clean (85dB + 6dB + 25dB=116dB).


No
 

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They simply do not do dynamics as well as CDs and pro audio woofers, its all in the numbers. Domes are very limited in terms of dynamics actually.


Its really just a reference point people have. I know BOSE owners that think their BOSE setup sounds awesome for HT and Im cringing during every scene, its absolutely horrible. Obviously that is the worst case scenerio but I read all the time people love this speaker and that speaker for HT and I wonder what is their reference point to start with.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/19651638


They simply do not do dynamics as well as CDs and pro audio woofers, its all in the numbers. Domes are very limited in terms of dynamics actually.

Hmmm, domes don't have dynamics? Can you define dynamics in regard to domes? The ability to transition quickly?
 

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Originally Posted by t6902wf
Hmmm, domes don't have dynamics? Can you define dynamics in regard to domes? The ability to transition quickly?
The ability to hit max peaks...nothing to do with any driver transition. Its not about how well any driver goes from 85dB to 95dB, they pretty well do it the same. We have enough distortion and CSD measurements to see any possible differences.



Dynamics to me is defined by how well a driver and amp handles the peaks that exist in movies and music.


Domes do not have the ability to go very loud and they have very inaccurate off axis response curves (Honestly, all speakers designers should add shallow waveguides to help with that).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/19651680


The ability to hit max peaks...nothing to do with any driver transition. Its not about how well any driver goes from 85dB to 95dB, they pretty well do it the same. We have enough distortion and CSD measurements to see any possible differences.



Dynamics to me is defined by how well a driver and amp handles the peaks that exist in movies and music.


Domes do not have the ability to go very loud and they have very inaccurate off axis response curves (Honestly, all speakers designers should add shallow waveguides to help with that).

At my listening level (-10 mv) what are the peaks?
 

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Quote:
At my listening level (-10 mv) what are the peaks?

Its hard to know what the absolute SPL value of -10mv is.
 

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Why do you "not like" THX reference level? If it is 105 db then my goal is 95 plus headroom.


To be able to perform within that spec a 88 db speaker should be well within its capabilities with a decent receiver.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by t6902wf /forum/post/19651805


Why do you "not like" THX reference level? If it is 105 db then my goal is 95 plus headroom.


To be able to perform within that spec a 88 db speaker should be well within its capabilities with a decent receiver.

THX is a limited spec cares nothing about dynamic peaks. Its not that I do not like it, it does not address the peaks at all. THX does not even consider listening distances and how much bass can drop off wrt those distances. IMO people use THX as the end all when it just the start.


You can choose what you want your goal to be. I choose to have very clean peaks. After years of testing I think its the best HT experience period. The measurements and science agree with my conclusions so Im pretty happy.



Did you understand what I posted when I said I do not know what SPL = -10mv?? The only way to know your SPL level is using an SPL meter. I do not know the AVR or Pre/Pro you use. I do not know what calibration if any is happening so if you are asking me if your speakers are okay for your SPL levels, I have to say I do not know.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/19651988


THX is a limited spec cares nothing about dynamic peaks. Its not that I do not like it, it does not address the peaks at all. THX does not even consider listening distances and how much bass can drop off wrt those distances. IMO people use THX as the end all when it just the start.


You can choose what you want your goal to be. I choose to have very clean peaks. After years of testing I think its the best HT experience period. The measurements and science agree with my conclusions so Im pretty happy.



Did you understand what I posted when I said I do not know what SPL = -10mv?? The only way to know your SPL level is using an SPL meter. I do not know the AVR or Pre/Pro you use. I do not know what calibration if any is happening so if you are asking me if your speakers are okay for your SPL levels, I have to say I do not know.

It is an interesting discussion. As I believe I mentioned earlier I have a receiver problem so I am shying away from any type of movie with dynamics for now. Santa is going to set me up with some new toys at which point I will render an opinion. From what I have heard so far I believe it is going to be very good. How these speakers do the highs is very special. I want to be able to do some extended listening with many different types of content before I comment.


I had considered Brandon's NQ but the form factor is tough to fit into my space. I may build a set for fun. Maybe I can find someone to buy them for the parts cost if I build some nice cabinets for them. They also look like a good candidate for the MiniDSP.


Thx
 
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