AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok so I have been reading lots of threads in this forum but I can't find the answers to some questions that I have. This is the setup that I am shooting for:


9 foot wide (~4 ft high) constant height screen for 2.35, 1.85, etc..

Mostly light controlled room

Movies via DVD only (no TV or video games at this point)

8ft ceiling

Ceiling mount

12X16 room


Is this doable with a CRT? I have about $2K to spend on the projector portion. This would have to include any electronics as well. I can use either a progressive scan standalone DVD player or a HTPC.


I don't mind the convergence stuff etc.. I would have fun with that. Mainly I am just at a loss on the type of crt projector and electronics needed to make this work. If I went the digital route I would get a 16X9 panel projector and use the zoom feature for the different aspect ratios.


I have a problem with rainbow on DLP and just a little bothered with screendoor from LCD (although I would live with it if it is the only solution in my price range).


Thanks in advance for all of your help!!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,242 Posts
Given your desired screen size, I would kiss off CRT for your price point. In my experience (3 different CRT's) you need a good 9 inch tubed version and I don't believe you will find it at $2K.


Going digital seems to be the logical choice (or GREATLY reduce your screen size)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,606 Posts
To get a 9' wide screen you will need to put the projector throw along the 16' long part of the room, so the screen is on the 12' wall. Is this ok?


What does "most light controlled room" mean? The darker you get your room, the more you will enjoy the CRT. CRTs produce an amazing amount of light, but you lose much of the shadow detail they are known for when there is too much light in the room. Lots of us go to some lengths to make sure our screen wall and the immediately surrounding area is as dark as possible.


Ceiling mounted CRTs tend to be immediately over your 'best' seating area, and result in about 6' of clearance under the projector. This should be enough over a couch or chair, as most people won't be standing up under the unit.


Most will say a 9' wide screen is too wide given your price range for both a CRT and the scaler+DVD player. You would be getting such a low number of lumens on screen that the image might be too dim. Me, I have trouble with brighter screen images and like my 8" CRT on an 8' wide screen, as it can produce images that I find are far too bright. (I base this on my local crappy cinema which from my seating position is not nearly as bright as my CRT can produce.)


A good 8" CRT should be able to give you what you want, but I think you will have to hunt to find one in your price range, especially a unit that has EM focus. (Which is far better than ES focus.) Perhaps something around a Barco 800 fits your range, as does some Electrohome ECPs or the smaller NECs.


Get on Curt Palme's mailing list, he often has units in your price range, althought I doubt people use these on screens as wide as you are talking about.


What will your screen be?


Search back through the forum for a thread I started a few weeks back about 2.35:1 and CRT. There's a tiny few of us who use 2.35:1 screens, most use 16:9.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by spearce
To get a 9' wide screen you will need to put the projector throw along the 16' long part of the room, so the screen is on the 12' wall. Is this ok?
Yes this is how I have planned the seating etc...

Quote:
What does "most light controlled room" mean? The darker you get your room, the more you will enjoy the CRT. CRTs produce an amazing amount of light, but you lose much of the shadow detail they are known for when there is too much light in the room. Lots of us go to some lengths to make sure our screen wall and the immediately surrounding area is as dark as possible.
There will only be on window in the with drapes. The other light will come from a hallway opening that, at this time, will not be closed off. So the light will be whatever ambient light spill I get from the hallway (there are no windows in the hallway either).

Quote:
Ceiling mounted CRTs tend to be immediately over your 'best' seating area, and result in about 6' of clearance under the projector. This should be enough over a couch or chair, as most people won't be standing up under the unit.
Humm ok how about noise?

Quote:
Most will say a 9' wide screen is too wide given your price range for both a CRT and the scaler+DVD player. You would be getting such a low number of lumens on screen that the image might be too dim. Me, I have trouble with brighter screen images and like my 8" CRT on an 8' wide screen, as it can produce images that I find are far too bright. (I base this on my local crappy cinema which from my seating position is not nearly as bright as my CRT can produce.)
Would I still need a scaler if I used a HTPC? I have a HTPC that I already have built although I am not using it as a full time DVD source at the moment.

Quote:
What will your screen be?
I was thinking about one of the new Silverstar screens.


Thanks for the input. I will look at your threads but it is looking at this point, given my budget, that digital would be the way to go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,606 Posts
You can use an HTPC as your scaler (most CRT folks seem to like the HTPC over other scalers. ok, at least I do!), and as your DVD player. So you might have a $2k budget for a projector. This is true if you go with a digital OR a CRT, so that may open up more options to you no matter what you do.


The Silverstar screens are very expensive, and would be a 9'x4' solid sheet, you can't roll it. (Not sure if you are aware of this or not.) But they have a good gain on them, so they might compensate for a lower output CRT.


As far as noise, most CRT projectors are dead quiet compared to a digital. Except for NECs and a few Sony models, you would not even hear the projector hanging directly over your head. The Barcos are known for being exceptionally quiet. If you want super quiet, you have to build a hushbox around the unit. Most digitals would need a hushbox, as they run far too loud for my tastes.


Blackout curtains on the windows would be a good idea. The material is pretty cheap, and would be easy to put behind whatever other pretty window covering you put up on them, but would give you total light blockage. As for the hallway, if it is at the end of the room the light spill might run on screen, so you might want to think about closing it off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the additional information. I was aware of the limitations of the Sliverstar (expense and rigid) but I figure that if I wanted to go CRT I would need the insane gain of those things. I read through your other thread and now realize the problems a constant height screen would present with a CRT. I will have to think about this some more.


One more question: Is hooking up a PC to a CRT as simple as using a VGA to BNC cable or does there have to be some electronics in between?


Thanks again for you assistance!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
582 Posts
All you need is a cable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,606 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by eq_shadimar
Thanks for the additional information. I was aware of the limitations of the Sliverstar (expense and rigid) but I figure that if I wanted to go CRT I would need the insane gain of those things. I read through your other thread and now realize the problems a constant height screen would present with a CRT. I will have to think about this some more.



I've found I'm 50/50 on 2.35:1 and 16:9 material, and I want the visual impact of the 2.35:1 to be wider, not shorter, than 16:9. So I went 2.35:1. But not everyone is like me. :)


A 2.0 gain screen (I've got one on order from Draper) would be a lot of gain. There's a thread today with a post stating that 1.3 gain is all a CRT needs, and anything else ruins a CRT image. Gotta love this forum. So you may not need the Silverstar, it entirely depends on just how many ft/L you want coming off the screen. I've heard you should not go below 8 ft/L, but I've been down around 6 ft/L and find that bright. I don't know what I'll think of the roughly 9 ft/L a 2.0 gain screen will yeild.

Quote:


One more question: Is hooking up a PC to a CRT as simple as using a VGA to BNC cable or does there have to be some electronics in between?



Its almost as simple as hooking up a VGA to BNC cable between them. You have to go buy the HD-15 to BNC cable, and then plug it in. :)


A few few models of projector don't have BNC ports and have DB-9 or DB-25 ports. These are easily made with a few bucks in parts from Radio Shack. These are rare though.


To the computer, the projector is a big monitor. To the projector, the computer is an RGBHV video signal. Both are very happy.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
9,999 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by eq_shadimar
Ok so I have been reading lots of threads in this forum but I can't find the answers to some questions that I have. This is the setup that I am shooting for:


9 foot wide (~4 ft high) constant height screen for 2.35, 1.85, etc..
Are you sure its constant height? I have to ask because you do not seem very confident on that height you are trying to tell us (~4 ft high). And at what format for this 9' in width? Are we talking 2.35?
Quote:
Mostly light controlled room
I don't get this. Either you have control of the light or you do not have control of the light. Where is the light coming from such that you don't have control of it?
Quote:
Movies via DVD only (no TV or video games at this point)

8ft ceiling

Ceiling mount

12X16 room
The throw distance requirement may force you to use the short-wall for the screen wall, which in turn may encroach upon real estate for any floor-standing speakers.
Quote:
Is this doable with a CRT? I have about $2K to spend on the projector portion. This would have to include any electronics as well. I can use either a progressive scan standalone DVD player or a HTPC.
This is tough. When you go from 2.35 to 1.85 your screen width (which won't be constant) drops and a considerable drop is light output. Setting up the rastor for 2.35 under the constraint of cnostant height will be a challenge at $2K. You may want to find the brightest CRT (not necessarily the one that offers the best picture) that $2 can buy you.


Also keep in mind that you may want to budget for a deinterlacer/scaler. Not all CRTs come with Component inputs (this means transcoder, too).
Quote:
I don't mind the convergence stuff etc.. I would have fun with that. Mainly I am just at a loss on the type of crt projector and electronics needed to make this work. If I went the digital route I would get a 16X9 panel projector and use the zoom feature for the different aspect ratios.


I have a problem with rainbow on DLP and just a little bothered with screendoor from LCD (although I would live with it if it is the only solution in my price range).


Thanks in advance for all of your help!!
Well, I just recently bought a GE Imager (rebadged NEC 6PG) that is in your budget, but you need to think of other costs that go along with a CRT, and along with projectors in general.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,606 Posts
WanMan, contrary to popular belief, light output does not drop when you project a 16:9 image in the center of a 2.35:1 screen and raster. Light output is measured by a light meter at a tiny, tiny, tiny spot on screen, and should be constant at all other spots. When you decrease the area by projecting black bars, you don't change the light output at all, just the amount of screen and raster that are productively being used. Think of it this way: does your light output drop just because you watch a 2.35:1 scope movie on your 16:9 screen? No. The room might be darker and harder to read in just by the image on screen, but the image is still at the full ft/L that your 16:9 image would be at.


I think the original poster may already be heading for HTPC, in which case a transcoder would not be necessary. (Although it may be necessary if you ever start using an HDTV satellite dish, D-VHS deck, HDTV cable box, etc.) But for DVD playback via an HTPC, there is no need for either the transcoder or the scaler as it does both jobs very nicely.


FYI - 9 feet wide is 3.8 feet tall for a 2.35:1 screen. So yes, its a constant height, 2.35:1 AR screen that would be 9 feet by ~4 feet. :)


Another cost few consider with a CRT is time. It takes a lot longer to setup a CRT than a digital. But its worth it. :D
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,832 Posts
Quote:
Except for NECs and a few Sony models, you would not even hear the projector hanging directly over your head.
I disagree, the Electrohome and Barco units are still audible. Are they annoying (high pitched whine, etc.) or as loud as a digital? IMO, no. Some people want the room absolutely silent so a hush box is always a requirement (except when using the rare fanless PJs).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,847 Posts
EQ

you really should reconsider

the folly of constant hight

with a crt projector but its your HT.

so thats up to you


and don't worry about your small budget

great home theaters are not built in a day

they grow over time

so start with your 2,000$$$ and start looking

around for a great 8 or 9 inch projector

and while your looking continue to add money

to your projector fund

after you have bought your projector

go to the next item on your list i bet its

a long one i know mine was

in a year or less you should have your

HT. done just in time to start your

upgrading


some projectors that are close to your

price range


SONY 1292 9 INCH PROJECTOR

AMPRO 4600 9 INCH PROJECTOR

AMPRO 4000 9 INCH PROJECTOR

BARCO 1600 9 INCH PROJECTOR


ALSO THE BARCO PROJECTORS 1000 1100 1001 1500

ALL 9 INCH PROJECTORS THAT LOOK REAL NICE AND CAN

BE HAD FOR UNDER 2,000$$$$ BUT MANY HAVE REPORTED

TUBES SHORTING WITH THESE PROJECTORS


SOME REAL NICE 8 INCH PROJECTORS TO CONSIDER

IN YOUR PRICE RANGE


AMPRO 3600

BARCO 808

NEC XG SERIES

ELECTROHOME 8000 SERIES



XANATOS
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,606 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by WanMan
spearce, I was always under the impression that more raster meant more brightness.
I don't think that is really true in this particular case.


When you are talking about throw distance it does apply, as you are spreading a fixed region of phosphor over a fixed region of screen. Pushing the projector further back allows the light to spread out more, so a 1mm x 1mm square of phosphor must light up say a 2 cm x 2 cm square on screen. If the throw distance is less, that same 1mm x 1mm phosphor will now light up say 1 cm x 1 cm square on screen. Same number of photons arriving, just in a smaller area, so a brighter image.


However here with a constant height screen throw distance is the same as with a 16:9 screen. That same 1mm square of phosphor is filling the same 2 cm screen square, so the light output is the same. Actually, a 2.35:1 can go a little smaller throw distance, and thus decrease that 2 cm square on screen to say 1.95 cm square, and get a tiny bit more light output.


So in general, 16:9 and 2.35:1 users increase their light output over 4:3 users by decreasing their throw distance a tad. And that's accomplished by widening the raster closer to the edges of the tube face, as the image trapezoid is not nearly as wide with a 16:9 or 2.35:1 raster/image as it is with a 4:3 image.


And thus, more raster results in a brighter image, as you are decreasing the screen area that a 1mm square of phosphor must light up.


A 2.35:1 screen is just a 16:9 with constant letterboxing always being performed. Same light output (maybe a tad more, say
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Listen guys I am going to do a constant height screen. My only question was about if a CRT could do it. I like CRT systems and I am sold on the benefits of CRT's but perhaps at this time given my projector budget a digital projector, even though it has faults, with a zoom lens is the answer. This is the question I am trying to answer.


Why am I so set on a constant height? Well if anyone took a look at my web page you can see that I already have a kick ass setup with my ISF'd 65" Mits 16X9 RPTV. I have used this setup for over 2 years and if I am going to take the next step to FP then I want the height to be the same for all aspect ratios. It simply does not make sense to my brain that when I watch Star Wars the people are smaller than Monsters Inc or whatever. This to me is the biggest downfall of a 16X9 or 4X3 based screen. To me it makes no sense to spend the money to create another 16X9 setup just for a bigger picture. I really want that widescreen feel that I feel only a constant height setup can give me. Besides the masking is so much easier :)


I am thankful for all the great suggestions so far on the comments about how to make a CRT constant height screen work but please lets leave the aspect ratio discussions to another thread.


Thanks!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
9,999 Posts
Sorry we weren't more productive. Maybe next time getting questions answered to better assist you can be better considered. :)
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top