[Dizzy714]

Bought the Samsung PN50B560


Alright so after figuring that the break-in slides don't fill up my whole screen (bottom two rows don't light up on the slides) 21 hours into it. I decided to give this thing it's first real use. Also I should mention that I'm getting a new one sent because of a dead pixel, so I'm basically firing this one up to get the feel of the TV. First things first, MAJOR image retention - my PS3 menu had to of been on no longer than a minute and most of the images were stuck on the screen for quite some time, played a quick 2 minute race on a game and the HUD was stuck there (obviously if the simple PS3 menu stuck there after if a minute). Actually the first time I turned the TV on and brought up the TV menu to change a setting that menu stuck on the TV when I turned it off. Alright so enough of the image retention issue, now onto picture quality. Turned on an HD movie under Time Warner's Starz movie channels, didn't look as good as I expected - I can see noise pretty clear (something I saw on the break-in slides). When I hooked up the cable box it automatically set to 1080i running at 60hz I think. Also I don't see any option to stretch standard 4:3 channels - the only one close to it is Wide/fit to screen but those

both show black bars on bottom and top. So last thing I did was go rent a blu-ray movie to play, thinking this will be pretty cool - rented Quantam of Solace. PS3 automatically set it in 1080P/60hz - still getting noise, maybe a little less than the HD movie channel but there's still some noise if you look for it - some shades an colors show it more than others. I should mention that I'm running both cable box and PS3 through the highest end Monster Cables you can buy, I know this doesn't mean anything but I figured I'd use them seeing how I didn't have to pay for them (have a buddy that works for Monster). So that's basically all of my ranting, maybe I was expecting a little too much for what this TV's price range is capable of? The main thing is that IR though, it

is BAD beyond bad - first time I flipped the TV on an went to the menu screen BAM it stuck itself, 20 hours through break-in slides did nothing. And the noise is pretty annoying as well. However, I was blown away with the video game graphics - never experienced 1080P till now.


This blu-ray movie Quantam of Solace wasn't meant to fill the screen though was it? Because it's in 16:9 and I got the top an bottom black bars - no option to stretch it to fill the whole screen completely.


Do you think I'd be better off with the slightly bigger brother of this TV, the PN50B650? Or better off with the G10 over both? I've got a little under two weeks to return this TV.

 

[mercury]

First off set your cable box to handle 4:3 at 480i. that should fill the screen on 4:3(it does on my Panny 50").


next, my experience tells me that most Plasmas look better over time. well after 100 hrs. break in. iv had a vizio, mag?, and now a Panny that all looked like crap out of the box. you need to find an HD channel that fills the screen, lower all your settings and run your tv for 36+ hrs strait. runit,runit then runit some more.


IR happened on all my sets through burn in. it gets better after weeks and weeks. although i still get it it goes away. no big deal.


im not a Samsung so i have no advice on your plasma.

 

[Dizzy714]

If I change the input to regular TV an off the HDMI input it will fill the screen I found out, just looks like crap. So what you're saying is that all the noise and the TV not being crystal sharp is normal? And with the IR as crazy as I'm seeing it I don't know how anyone can play hours

of games without burn-in - I played a ten minute game of cod4 an the whole bottom was stamped with it for about a half hour (i flipped on some TV afterwards).


Does anybody know if picture quality is better on the 650 than the 550/560? Is there any sacrifices on that TV coming off the one I have or

no?

 

[BillP]

The 650 will not be better. Either stick with what you have or switch to the Panny. Burn-in really does not happen with today's plasmas -- what you are seeing is temporary IR. Panny seems to have a little less of an IR problem than Sammy, so again, you may want to switch to the G10.

 

[discopaul]



Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP /forum/post/16842352


The 650 will not be better. Either stick with what you have or switch to the Panny. Burn-in really does not happen with today's plasmas -- what you are seeing is temporary IR. Panny seems to have a little less of an IR problem than Sammy, so again, you may want to switch to the G10.

It seems I am seeing a lot more IR threads, mostly Panny by the way. I wonder if these newer plasmas are more senstive to it or are people more less mindful of certain techniques to minimize IR?

 

[cleh19]

I was under the impression that it was actually the exact opposite. I think the new Samsungs suffer from short term IR more so then the pannys. (probably just see more posts on panasonic IR since there are probably alot more pannys being sold)


On the other note, i think the noise problem is odd. Every 6 series samsung i looked at seemed to have almost no noise at all in the picture. (wonder if there is something wrong with that set?)


In my opinion, i would run it as long as you can before the return to see if the IR gets better. I know I would love to pick up a sammy tv soon (problems permitting) and as with all plasma's, it seems like IR gets better over time.

 

[DocuMaker]

Umm, interesting that no one has bothered to ask you to list all your settings.


For starters, what picture mode are you on? Dynamic, Standard, Movie, etc? Then list all the other settings you are using, including noise reduction, dynamic contrast, black adjust, etc. Give us all the details if you want any useful help.

 

[nolanski]

I thinks it's that many folks are not familiar with the tech really.

 

[Citivas]

Assuming you're using the slides most people around here are familiar with, I find it odd they don't fill your screen. I have seen them on the 550 and 590 and they work perfectly for both, so it would be usual for that to be uniquely different on the 560.


Why did you do so much exclusive use of the slides before testing the picture? Its completely unnecessary on the Samsung.


As others have noted, we don't have enough information to judge whether the noise and the other issues you mention are the TV or your programming receiver. Also, you mention using "high end" Monster cables but not whether they are HDMI versus component. I assume HDMI.


In any event, if you are really seeing significant "noise" regardless of source or cable then you may just have a bad set. ALL programming has some "noise" -- I have never seen a total lack of noise, period. But it should be pretty subtle with HD content most of the time (except for transfers of content that has a lot of grain) unless you're being incredibly picky. So presuming your not, its a bad set. The anti-glare filter difference with the 650 would not meaningfully affect "noise." BTW, numerous reviews cite low noise level as one of the strengths of the 2009 Samsung line so, again, its not the model -- its either your exact unit or you, so probably the set.


The bad set theory is further supported by the level of image retention you are noting. Most people are certainly not seeing image rention of the Samsung menus -- it shifts its position automatically sooner than the time necessary to cause it on most of our sets. And I have a PS3 and have spent significant time in the menus changing settings and had zero IR. I am not switching to a pure color screen and placing my face inches from the screen to prove it isn't there but that would be pointless since that's not a normal condition. But there is no obvious sign of IR so far and what you describe would be extreme -- the bigger fear is static images for long periods of time, not minutes.


In terms of the 4:3 stretch, this can be handled by both the TV receiver and the TV. I set it up on my DirecTV receiver and leave the TV in 16:9 mode. It handles stretching of 4:3 programming fine. What doesn't stretch is 4:3 programing sent over an HD channel. That's because the bars in that case are being sent by the TV station as part of the programming and are not controlled by the set top box or TV. I haven't experimented with the Samsung set to see if it will compensate for it. It does a great job of zooming to eliminate letterboxing on the top and bottom when on an SD channel though.


Good luck. It sounds like an academic point since you have a new set coming. It would be surprising if you have the same results with two in a row -- there are plenty of happy 560 users without your issues.

 

[Aeonus]

Contrast and viewing mode plays a large part in how image retention affects the Sammy plasmas. Try using movie mode if you aren't already and dial your contrast back to 75-80.

 

[mjrgamer]

People buy a lot of sets trying to find the perfect balance. Once all my friends took a gander at my Kuro they are saving up and hope there is still some stock available this fall.

Sorry fellas I got the last one. j/k

 

[Dizzy714]

Movie Mode

Cell Light 10

Contrast 85

Brightness 53

Sharpness 0

Color Saturation 48

Tint G50/R50


Black Tone Off

Dynamic Contrast Off

Gamma -1

Color Space Auto

White Balance Defaults (all of them stay at 25)

Edge Enhancement Off

Flesh Tone 0


Color Warm1

Digital NR Auto

Picture 16:9



And as far as my pixel shift settings, I have it to it's most rapid setting which is 4 vertical/4 horizontal and 1 minute for every shift. And I know I'm not being picky with the IR, because it's literally after an image is left for about 30 seconds it's tattoo'd to the black screen - had it on for 10 minutes and it was tattoo'd on a black screen for about a half hour. Also the noise is most intense when I get gray shades - faces I would say it's at a medium if I was to calculate the intensity's by hard/medium/soft.


I got a few options as far as returning/exchanging TV's though. I can either exchange my set for the exact same set but wouldn't get it till early part of next month - or - if I decide to pay the extra $100 for the 650 it will be shipped out by Tuesday and I'd get it by next week. Also, it comes with a $150 surge protector free with it as well. All I'm worried about is if maybe the 650 isn't as good as the 560 as far as overall picture quality. From what I've read about it so far, the only decrease to the set itself is instead of two 15w built in speakers the 650 has two 10w speakers. Also, can anyone confirm that the 650 has a 40,000:1 contrast ratio? [I know it's dynamic is 3,000,000:1]. Bottom line is, is the 650 any better as far as picture quality as the 560? If not, not anything less than 560's picture quality right? Because I honestly would much rather just have the 650 sent out because I'll get it within the week - unless the 560 is better.

 

[RandyWalters]



Quote:
Originally Posted by discopaul /forum/post/16842659


It seems I am seeing a lot more IR threads, mostly Panny by the way.

Really? Well the rest of us see a LOT more Samsung IR complaints than Panasonic IR complaints

 

[goormove]

I just spent over an hour with the g10, V10 and 650 with a salesperson who was very strong. I was impressed by the level of work that went into the set-up of the 3 sets, although the 650 was in a "worse" environment, it still looked more sharp and color accurate than both of the Panny's. I went to buy a 54G10 and look at the 50V10, but now I am rethinking my choice. The 650 was amazing - depth of image was better and the color and black levels were amazing. I also started looking at the 58" 860 which is way out of budget, but was unreal looking.


After all my hours of reading on here, and all the time already spent looking at screens, I am still in a quandary and need some more help. The 58" samsung is really the best choice for the money right now and after what i saw today, it makes the most sense.


The g10 looked the worst of the group and while the V10 was a bit better, the 650 still smoked it and the 860 was almost as good as some of the Kuro's.


I'd be curious to hear what others have to say. Clearly I am not "price blind" but it seems that for the money in question - saving several hundred dollars - the Samsung with a better picture is a no brainer. Thoughts?

 

[BillP]



Quote:
Originally Posted by goormove /forum/post/16844674


... the Samsung with a better picture is a no brainer. Thoughts?

Unfortunately, comparing displays in typical stores is problematic. They are not properly set up (and are definitely not calibrated), and may have multiple splitters in the loop. And the store lights are too high to judge black levels. I remember several years ago that the Sony LCOS display was the best display in one store and the worst in another a few miles away, so set-up is important.


Most seem to agree that PQ is fairly similar between the Pannys and Sammys, depending on what you like. Panny has better black levels, and Sammy more accurate colors. In a recent shoot-out, after proper calibration, they were neck and neck (Pioneer much better than both Sammy and Panny, and Sammy rated slightly higher than Panny).

 

[Citivas]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy714 /forum/post/16843808


Movie Mode

Cell Light 10

Contrast 85

Brightness 53

Sharpness 0

Color Saturation 48

Tint G50/R50


Black Tone Off

Dynamic Contrast Off

Gamma -1

Color Space Auto

White Balance Defaults (all of them stay at 25)

Edge Enhancement Off

Flesh Tone 0


Color Warm1

Digital NR Auto

Picture 16:9



And as far as my pixel shift settings, I have it to it's most rapid setting which is 4 vertical/4 horizontal and 1 minute for every shift. And I know I'm not being picky with the IR, because it's literally after an image is left for about 30 seconds it's tattoo'd to the black screen - had it on for 10 minutes and it was tattoo'd on a black screen for about a half hour. Also the noise is most intense when I get gray shades - faces I would say it's at a medium if I was to calculate the intensity's by hard/medium/soft.


I got a few options as far as returning/exchanging TV's though. I can either exchange my set for the exact same set but wouldn't get it till early part of next month - or - if I decide to pay the extra $100 for the 650 it will be shipped out by Tuesday and I'd get it by next week. Also, it comes with a $150 surge protector free with it as well. All I'm worried about is if maybe the 650 isn't as good as the 560 as far as overall picture quality. From what I've read about it so far, the only decrease to the set itself is instead of two 15w built in speakers the 650 has two 10w speakers. Also, can anyone confirm that the 650 has a 40,000:1 contrast ratio? [I know it's dynamic is 3,000,000:1]. Bottom line is, is the 650 any better as far as picture quality as the 560? If not, not anything less than 560's picture quality right? Because I honestly would much rather just have the 650 sent out because I'll get it within the week - unless the 560 is better.

Your performance does not sound normal for the model so presumably you should see better results with the replacement.


The 650 should not look worse in PQ in any way. And the better anti-glare filter should also improve contrast. For what its worth, there is either a lot more 650 users here or they simply are more active, so you'll have a lot more suggestions for effective picture settings, etc. from the community.

 

[Dizzy714]

Well, this does also give me the opportunity to return my TV to Vann's and get a refund - and then buy a TV from Best Buy and pay 10 bucks more than I did for Vann's warranty and get 4 years instead of 3 and also have burn-in covered in the Best Buy warranty. Downside, I'll have to pay a few more bucks because of tax but oh well. Still wondering if anything is sacrificed on the 650 other than 5watts on each speaker - and if the picture quality is slightly slightly improved over the 560.

 

[goormove]

Thanks for the reply BillP, but wouldn't logic hold that if I played with both for an hour in the same lousy environment (650 on one wall, V10 and 860 another, g10 another) that at home in my "very good" environs I would see similar positive increases? I did lots of settings playing - I even brought some from here to input as a baseline for each TV. Under the same lighting conditions, playing the same program material, I just thought the Sammy looked better - blacks and all.


I'm going out to another store today to do another look, if I have the same result, I'll be picking up the Panny 650 today. If not, then back to the drawing board.


IMHO, I think the Pioneers look amazing, but they give up some pop for those better blacks. This is purely a personal taste issue at this point - it actually goes against all the test data I know - but I am not as objective as I could be anymore. Science is wonderful as part of the process but not the entire process. At some level, it's important to use ones senses to pick out gear and apply some subjective criteria.


I have been looking at AVS for years and regularly change equipment. I think the amount of discussion about this one small topic illustrates how close the good equipment is to each other and how good things have gotten in general. I used to want to a Runco screen and would have given a finger for an old Elite (read 10 years ago) but now these things are so close, personal preference almost should play a part.


That's my nickel for now - thanks all and Dizzy - let us know which way you go. I think the 650 is a better choice than the 560 all around from what I have seen myself... but that is certainly not as scientific as it could be

 

[BillP]

goormove, by all means, you should get what looks best to you. I'm just saying that store conditions are not generally the same as home conditions. Panny definitely has better blacks than Sammy when viewed in a dark room (which is how I watch movies). But blacks wash out more with Panny than Sammy in a bright room (such as a store), making the Sammy blacks look better. So, if you watch a lot at home during the day in a bright room, yes Sammy blacks will look better. But I watch movies at home in the dark, where the Panny blacks will look better. That being said, Sammy colors are more accurate, and many think the Sammy has more pop. It comes down to what you like! IMO, Sammy also has one feature I prefer, a swivel stand. But Panny wins when it comes to reliability and customer service, although that is less important if you get a Mack Extended Warranty. Personally, I keep swaying back and forth between the 2 brands myself (each has its own pluses and minuses).

 

[joeskie]

From your settings try putting digital noise reduction to off. And try these if it does not help. Thx to hudman (spelling?) I think those are the best settings for me.



movie


cell light 10


contrast 95


brightness 52


sharpness 15


color 50


tint g50/r50


black tone off


dyn contrast off


gamma 0


color space custom


red

31

10

7


green

32

46

10


blue

0

0

38


yellow

49

50

15


cyan

35

50

60


magenta

39

10

100


white balance

r-low 22

g-low 25

b-low 23

r-high 41

g-high 25

b-high 41


flesh tone 0


edge enhance off


color tone warm 2


noise reduction off


hdmi black level low


film mode off(until they figure out cs issue)


As for the MAJOR IR I think you have a defective set because on mine unless I look very closely, even within the first few hours of use, IR was never an issue. Even after watching the UEFA Champions league finals a couple days after getting the set...