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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’ve had my 9905 since late October and have had issue with its extremely poor geometry and convergence since then. I initially, contacted Philips service mid-November to report this and other problems (see my problem list below). Nearly four months later, I’m exactly where I started and am beginning to think that Philips has no intention of making this set operate the way it should.


The irony in all of this is that the 9905 was not available at any retail locations ANYWHERE within a 2 hour driving distance of Boston. As a result, I ended buying the set sight unseen (purely on specs and reviews) directly from Philips through their employee store. While their pricing and service were exceptional, I have now discovered that without a retailer on my side, getting this set repaired or exchanged has become a huge hurdle.


To add further insult to injury, Philips only has 2 authorized service companies in my area (20 minutes north of Boston) one of which had no experience with the Philips HD line. The other company, supposedly experienced with the 9905’s chassis “had seen one, but never worked on oneâ€. After several false starts (“oops, I didn’t think I’d need the alignment template—I’ll have to order one. We’ll call you to reschedule…â€) and missed appointments (bad weather) a month later the guy finally shows up with everything he needs to fix my problems. After nearly 5 hours of trying to fix the geometry and convergence, the authorized Philips service guy declared he couldn’t fix it and suggested I call Philips directly.


So after an additional volley of phone calls and emails to my Service contact at Philips and recapping 3 months of issues ranging from gross geometry and convergence errors, intermittent loss of sync using the Aux Inputs, Intermittent CRT drop outs, the list goes on and on, I was told that there is nothing more service can do for me and that my problems were being turned over to Philips’ “Industry†group and that someone from this group would contact me—5 weeks later I’m still waiting. I’m not sure what “Industry†is specifically responsible for at Philips, but I’m quite certain that it isn’t customer satisfaction.


Over the past six weeks I’ve sent a half dozen follow-up emails to my service contact at Philips who has now stopped answering my emails--not good!


The Problems:


1.) Convergence and Geometry – All Input Modes

Horizontal lines bow upward near the upper corners and downward near the lower corners. The bow is sudden and sharp: horizontal lines are reasonably straight until the last inch or so and then bow upward or downward up to 1/2 inch. The effect is more pronounced the closer you get to the top or bottom of the screen and looks like hell when watching anything that has horizontal lines near the top or bottom edges of the screen. It’s particularly bad with wide aspect ratio DVDs where there is a sharp contrast difference between the letterbox black bars and the film—kind of a subtle convex fun-house mirror effect. The Windows desktop is yet another treat: the “Start†button droops downward with a certain Salvador Dali quality. Additionally, vertical lines near the edges of the screen are grossly misshapen and mis-converged. This is particularly noticeable with images that contain white or neutral gray vertical lines such a document window frames when in PC mode.


2.) ATSC Sporadic Gross Mis-convergence

Power the set down while in ATSC mode and you’re likely to be greeted with an extremely misconverged (R, G, and B off by over an inch!!) image when you power it up later. Not always, mind you--just often enough to impress you friends and family when they happen to come over. The fix suggested by Philips? Wait several second before you switch to ATSC mode. Um, Uh but I’m already IN ATSC mode. Ok, switch to NTSC, wait a minute and switch back to ATSC (amazing the convenience you can get with a $10K MSRP piece of second generation consumer electronics!!!)


3.) Intermittent Loss of Sync in Aux 1, 2, 3 Video Input Modes

Very sporadic loss of sync that lasts approx 1 second and seems to happen only in these modes. In some cases it happens a couple of times in one day, in others a week goes by without occurrence. Since I now use the ATSC and EXT-HD (VGA HTPC) exclusively, this issue is less annoying but I’m quite concerned that this will come back to haunt me after my warranty has expired and will cost me an arm and a leg to fix.


4.) Intermittent CRT Drop-out

Similar to the loss of sync problem, this also occurs sporadically, lasts for approx 1 second, and seems to be related to the Aux inputs only. I’ve seen the red CRT drop-out (picture had a strong cyan color cast) and the green CRT drop-out (picture had a strong magenta color cast). Like the sync problem this issue does not occur in the ATSC and EXT-HD modes and yes, I’m quite concerned that this too will worsen after warranty expiration.


5.) Video Games Jitter

Many video games are basically un-watchable on this set—parts of the image jitter up and down to the point of nausea. As far back as November 2000, Philips engineering was reportedly “looking into the problemâ€, which they believe is related to the internal line-doubler. I have been unable to receive any assurances regarding if/when this problem will be solved. I now run all video game sources through my HTPC’s video capture card and use dTV for de-interlacing and scaling with exceptional results. However, if you plan on playing video games on this set and don’t plan on investing another $1200-1500 on a HTPC, be prepared to be VERY disappointed with video game image stability.


6.) Dolby Digital Drop-outs in ATSC Mode

All my HD Channels suffer from frequent (3-4 times per minute approx duration 1 second) DD audio dropouts. Philips has pinned the blame on my Kenwood 1090VR DD receiver. Short of purchasing a new receiver there’s no way for me to prove or disprove the Kenwood is the culprit. The problem is annoying enough that I now listen to all ATSC material in Dolby Prologic.


7.) Fan Noise

Although I haven’t bitched directly to Philips about this one, do yourself a favor and audition one of these babies in a very quiet environment. The dual cooling fans on my 9905 make more noise than my refrigerator! To their credit, Philips supposedly has a fix for this annoying problem. Hopefully, I’ll be able to enjoy its benefits once my more pressing problems are corrected.


The bottom line? I can live with problems 5, 6, and 7. Problem 1 is a pisser that I’m sure can be minimized by a tech that has experience and patience with this set. Problems 2, 3, and 4 scare the crap out of me as I’m certain these will get worse and they certainly won’t cure themselves. If anyone has any contacts at Philips I’d appreciate some names so that I can get this resolved once and for all. I don’t think I’m asking for much: I just want my set to work as it should.


BTW, I’ve forwarded a copy of this email to my service contact at Philips’ Kentucky plant (home of Philips HDTV) and have invited someone (anyone) from Philips to reply. If you don’t hear from me in a while, send the EMT’s; I’ve probably died from holding my breath.



Regards -- Steve


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Sorry to hear about your Phillips misfortunes.


I just want to affirm that this is why it makes a lot of sense to deal witha brick and mortar if at all possible when buying an RPTV. My experience was very positive, in that the local store arranged all delivery and pick-up, and even allowed me to eventually exchange one set for a completely difference model by another manufacturer after two sets had problems. One should not underestimate the grief that could come from having to deal with a multi-kilobuck, three-hundred pound, fragile, piece of furniture that develops problems. I watched the "expert" pickup crew practically demolish an RCA MM 52100 trying to get it out of my house and into their truck. I also watched the local "repair" crew authorized and recommended by Thomson scratch their heads at the problems the second set had, and aver that they had to "take it in" for service, since they obviously had no clue what was causing the problem - bottom line at least three weeks, and - two more load/unloads.

My advice is to buy local, and get whatever extended warranty the B and M offers, as I was told that helped my case when I wanted to exchange for another model. That's pretty cheap insurance, in my book.

John in VA
 

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Steve,


Man that stinks beyond belief. The fact that you can't get any satisfaction from the manufacturer is bad enough, but the fact that Philips doesn't even have any authorized people in your area who can actually troubleshoot the set is inexcusable. My only suggestion would be to contact a knowledgeable, competent east coast ISF guy like Gary Merson or Chuck Williams and have them look at the set. Unless you're Ross Perot, you can't just write off an $8000 - $10000 TV set. You're gonna have to do something. If you haven't already done so, you might try posting your story and your description of your problems on the CRT forum and let one of the CRT gurus have a crack at it. Good luck. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/mad.gif


Kent
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi John,


I'd gladly give you back the "record for prolonged waiting" trophy-I don't want mine anymore. Glad to hear most of your problems have gone away. My set has very little overscan, particularly in SVGA mode, which I now use quite often. Increasing overscan would do little to correct the problem as the only location that horizontal lines are straight is at the vertical mid-point--the further away from the midpoint the worse the bowing. Do you see anything like this on your set?


As far the service tech bringing the service manual goes, it didn't happen! The first go around the guy didn't even have the convergence template. The second visit, he had the template but no manual.


I haven't had the color issue you're seeing on CBS. I have had some weird black level problems with Fox Digital, though. I posted a couple of messages in the HDTV Programming forum, but it looks like I may be the only one from the Boston area with this problem. Essentially, it happens on 2 Fox Digital shows: Dark Angel and The X-Files. Both of these shoes are pretty dark to begin with and on most dark scenes I lose most of the dark shadow detail. Instead of dark gray gradients I get splotchy blacks. Adjusting brightness has little to no effect. The other bit of weirdness I've seen is with CBS' Diagnosis Murder where sunny outdoor scenes appear VERY washed out. Indoor shots, and shady outdoor shots look good, it's just the sunny ones, particularly the beach shots that look faded and washed out. Adjusting contrast doesn't help much.


Regards -- Steve


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STOP DFAST, BOYCOTT JVC, LONG LIVE HDTV


[This message has been edited by SteveV (edited 03-02-2001).]


[This message has been edited by SteveV (edited 03-02-2001).]
 

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SteveV,

With the Avia patterns I've observed, there is no bowing. But then there's a fair amount of overscan, indicated by the Avia test for that purpose. If I adjusted the overscan way down to minimize it, perhaps I'd begin to notice problems.


Pincushion corrections are usually separate for the sides or top and bottom of pictures. To quote a service manual: "For top and bottom correction, the vertical sweep must be increased for the mid-portion of each horizontal scan. This is done by superimposing a sampling of horizontal sweep voltage on the vertical sweep current flowing through the yoke." Since your distortions seem to influence all three CRTs, it must be a defect or adjustment common to all three. In the 9905 chassis, the Large Signal Panel contains the yoke drive circuit.


There are three horizontal drive frequencies for the 9905: 31.5 kHz for VGA or NTSC, 33.75 kHz for ATSC, and 37.5 kHz for SVGA. It would be important whether or not you have this same problem feeding a test pattern directly into any of the DVD(NTSC)inputs from a DVD machine versus using a separate computer to the HD (SVGA) inputs. Bowing with one, not the other?


Your first description of the bowing problem seems to differ from the second. In the first, saying you don't have overscan, particularly in SVGA, is just what you don't want IMO. You need overscan. But if you have bad bowing of horizontal lines from center to top and bottom, as in your second description, this implies a circuit defect to me--although some adjustments might be way out of whack.


--John




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[This message has been edited by John Mason (edited 03-02-2001).]
 

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The Philips Employee store is run by Almo Distributing of Philadelphia, not Philips themselves.


I had problems with a Pronto I ordered from them, but eventually worked it out.


It sucks what has happened but to just blame Philips alone is not justified. This company, Almo is a big part of the problem.


BTW, if you purhased from the employee store, aren't you a Philips employee like myself? Maybe you can pull some strings inside to figure out what is going on?


Maybe I can look into forwarding your story on. It won't fix anything for you, but maybe for the next guy down the line.


Rick

 

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"It sucks what has happened but to just blame Philips alone is not justified. This company, Almo is a big part of the problem"


If Philips hired them, then they represent Philips and Philips is to blame. They should either make their contractors do their jobs, or replace them.



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The CIDLib C++ Frameworks

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
John,


While I understand that it is desirable to have some overscan, 8% overscan in SVGA mode would chop off a good portion of the Windows task bar (bottom edge) and Windows title bars (top edge). In EXT-HD input mode (my HTPC is connected to this input) I have a very small amount of cropping at the top and bottom of the image. Adding more overscan would perhaps mask the problem a bit. But as I stated in my previous post, the only part of the display that has straight horizontal lines is the vertical midpoint: move up from the midpoint and the line edges bow upward, move down from the mid point and they bow downward--the closer to the upper and lower extremes the worse the error. As a result, ANY horizontal line in the upper or lower third of the display looks bowed.


The bowing is present in all modes and is very noticeable with letterboxed wide AR material such as 2.35 anamorphic DVD's. As you might imagine, the Windows task bar and title bars are in the upper and lower extremes of the image and make this geometry anomaly VERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRY noticeable.


Rick,


I'm not a Philips employee but was referred to the employee store when I called Philips customer service to ask where I might find the 9905 available in my area. The woman I spoke to gave me approx a dozen locations where I could buy one. I told her that I had been to all of these locations and none of them stocked the model, nor had they heard of it. And since Philips has no authorized internet dealers I was curious about how to go about getting my hands on one. She gave me an authorization code and suggested I order directly from the Philips Employee store. I placed my order and within 3 weeks had my 9905--the rest has been downhill http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif .


By all means, if you can forward this along to someone at Philips I'd appreciate it!


Thanks -- Steve


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STOP DFAST, BOYCOTT JVC, LONG LIVE HDTV


[This message has been edited by SteveV (edited 03-02-2001).]


[This message has been edited by SteveV (edited 03-02-2001).]


[This message has been edited by SteveV (edited 03-02-2001).]
 

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I can only comment from the perspective of my Philips 60PP9601, but it sounds like my set has similar problems to yours. My set cost a third of the amount of yours, so I'm more forgiving of its problems.


Quote:
1.) Convergence and Geometry – All Input Modes

Horizontal lines bow upward near the upper corners and downward near the lower corners. The bow is sudden and sharp: horizontal lines are reasonably straight until the last inch or so and then bow upward or downward up to 1/2 inch.
Yes, my set does this too, though I only notice it on service convergence mode, when the red and blue lines suddenly take off for Pluto in the last half inch. The fix is simple. Adjust the horizontal size in the service menu to put the offending portion out of the visible screen, i.e., adjust the horizontal overscan. Most sets come out of the box with far more overscan than the Philips sets; out of the box, a particular Toshiba 56H80 cut out close to 50% of the HDTV image! Furthermore, most sets look much worse than the Philips sets if you adjust them to have only as much overscan as the Philips sets have out of the box. Sweep your problems under the rug by increasing the overscan. There is no shame in 7% overscan, though 10% would definitely be a pity.


Also, Philips sets come out of the box with the picture horizontally pushed to one side. The guns are actually off-center, and the set has convergence problems on one edge as a result. They probably have a good reason for doing this. They sweep the problem under the rug by putting the image off center to hide the offending region. So, you may need to adjust the horizontal centering too.


Realize that no CRT-based set has perfect geometry, and most RPTV's have pretty bad geometry and edge convergence.


I cannot really say whether my geometry is good or bad - I can simply say my 60PP9601's geometry and edge convergence is far superior to the Sony 53HS10, which I had briefly before returning it. The top half of my screen is more or less perfect, aside from slight edge convergence problems, but the bottom 1/3 is stretched vertically and the bottom line in a squeezed picture rises close to an inch from either side to meet at a point in the middle. I hide this with "manual overscan", i.e., placing a matte over the bottom inch of the squeezed 16:9 picture, and also on all the other sides to frame the picture. You might wish to consider mattes even for your 16:9 set.

Quote:
2.) ATSC Sporadic Gross Mis-convergence
My guess is that this could be avoided if you don't use the AUTO sync option.

Quote:
3.) Intermittent Loss of Sync in Aux 1, 2, 3 Video Input Modes
I actually never use these. I route all S-video (and composite video) through my Kenwood VR-407 receiver, which serves as a video switcher, and then into my DVDO iScan Pro and finally into the AUX 4 HD Y Pb Pr input. I have never seen a loss of sync.

Quote:
4.) Intermittent CRT Drop-out
Ditto, I guess. I've never seen it. My Sony 53HS10 had drop-outs any time there was a bright image, though. The Sony set was fixed by replacing power capacitors with stronger ones.

Quote:
5.) Video Games Jitter
I've never seen Video games jitter on my 60PP9601. I use a Sony PS2 with component inputs routed through the DVDO iScan Pro. I also did not see jitter when I had the PS2 connected directly to the 60PP9601. I also do not see jitter on my PC's 800x600 @ 60 Hz input into AUX 5. Anyway, Video game jitter is a known problem with the set and is even mentioned in the 60PP9601 manual. A DVDO iScan Pro should solve the problem.

Quote:
Dolby Digital Drop-outs in ATSC Mode
Not applicable to my set. I do get occasional drop-outs on DD on a variety of hardware that is completely separate from my TV. You might try breaking down and buying a DTC-100 or similar if all else fails - you'll need one anyway for HD from satellite.

Quote:
7.) Fan Noise
This is another known problem with the Philips sets, and it is fixable or at least improvable. Get the known Philips fan repair and/or place a piece of sound absorbant material behind the set.


One problem you did not mention is that your line doubler really sucks. A DVDO iScan Pro will produce much better colors with much less noise and significantly higher resolution than your Philips set's internal Genesis line doubler does. Plus, with its 480p RGB or component output into one of your HD inputs, it will solve your loss of sync on S-video input problem and your video game jitter problem and maybe some of your other problems.


I strongly recommend you slightly increase overscan and buy a DVDO iScan Pro and get the fan fix if it bugs you, and then see if you have anything left to ***** about.


-Abdul
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Abdul Jalib:
One problem you did not mention is that your line doubler really sucks. A DVDO iScan Pro will produce much better colors with much less noise and significantly higher resolution than your Philips set's internal Genesis line doubler does.
Hi Abdul,

Wonder how much time you've spent sampling various NTSC deinterlace conversions using a 9905? I've been commenting periodically on the remarkably good conversions I've been observing on mine from day one, last summer, here. In fact, just today, in this thread , I noted an extraordinary high-fidelity film image on HBO yesterday via digital cable and the 9905's Genesis circuits.


Seen a lot of comments saying that the new line of Philips models have the exact same chassis as the 9905, but you have to wonder if they can build and sell them all, at a fraction of the 9905 cost, by only substituting 7-in CRTs for the 9905's 9-in CRTs. The Genesis, I've read, requires an auxiliary chip for 3:2 pulldown, and if that's true I'm not certain all Philips models include the pulldown circuit. I haven't seen any outputs from the deinterlace model(s) you mentioned.


--John






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I should say that I don't know for sure that the 64PH9905's line doubler sucks. I am only making that conclusion based on the fact that the 60PP9601 uses the same one, and the 60PP9601's internal line doubled picture definitely sucks. The 60PP9601 does have 3:2 pulldown in its internal line doubler, and so must have that auxillary chip for the Genesis chipset. Despite that, the 60PP9601's internal line doubler is inferior to Sony's DRC with no 3:2 pulldown (in 480p mode for a fair comparison), which is in turn inferior to the DVDO iScan Pro.


Many here have claimed that the 60PP9601/55PP9701/60PP9701 share the same foundation of electronics as the 64PH9905, but then one person later concluded that they do not, so I suspect they do not. As far as I know, they do all use the same line doubler. I'm guessing that you 64PH9905 owners don't know what you're missing by not having a DVDO iScan Pro, but I could be wrong. It could be that the problem with the 60PP9601's picture from its internal line doubler is not the line doubler but rather the quality of the AUX1-AUX3 S-video interlaced input circuitry, which could be different on the '9905. SteveV's AUX1-AUX3 inputs clearly stink for other reasons anyway.


-Abdul



[This message has been edited by Abdul Jalib (edited 03-02-2001).]
 

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Pretty much all RPTVs have to have a certain amount of overscan because they cannot keep a clean image all the way out to the edges. This is a common problem with folks who use them with HTPCs. Some do better than others. The Toshiba TW65H80 I used to own could get away with minimal overscan if I was willing to put up with a little raggedness at the edges.


If you really want to use an HTPC, a front projection system is kind of the best way to get into the zero overscan world.



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Dean Roddey

The CIDLib C++ Frameworks

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by gnosys:
...this is why it makes a lot of sense to deal with a brick and mortar if at all possible when buying an RPTV...
Hi John,


Thanks for the reply. I agree--for an investment of this size B&M would have been the preferred choice. Unfortunately, there were no retailers anywhere near me that had this model. Thinking back, I have to wonder why this set is available in so FEW locations(???). The other red flag should have been the complete lack of response I got when I sent Philips an email via their web site asking about certain 9905 features. Actually, lack of response isn't accurate: I sent my original request on September 6, 2000 and received a reply indicating "system problems" had "backed up our email system" on November 7, 2000. No answer to my questions in the email--just a suggestion I call "customer care center at 800-531-0039". Two months to reply to my original email--must have been a whopper of a "System problem". At that point I already had taken delivery on the set--so sad it's actually funny.


The pisser is that I'm usually not the type of person to buy something without having seen it first (way too anal http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif ). This has been a tough not to mention extremely expensive lesson.


At this point I'm thinking of getting the BBB and possibly a lawyer involved to get this resolved. Again, all I'm looking for is the get the set to operate properly. For the life of me I can't understand why Philips doesn't make this happen.


Regards -- Steve




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Too bad about the glitches. Thought I held the record for prolonged waiting for 9905 repairs but you may soon outdistance me. Bought mine the same way, last July, and have a similar local problem with skilled servicers. Just had the fans swapped for new Panasonic models a few weeks back (nearly silent now), and the guy said he exchanged a lot of fans locally in 9905s. But this small firm isn't familiar with the more elaborate tweaking for a 9905.


Suspect you've considered that the scanning is 'collapsed' too much in your set. If the drooping kicks in at only the extreme corners, perhaps adjusting the overscan could push it off screen. An Avia disc should show much overscan you have now. Beam control is toughest at the corners, even if it's only on 9-in CRTs. Here's an excerpt from the service CDROM on adjusting picture height:

"Adjust the Picture Height register (33) to obtain a slight (approximately 8% total) overscan at the top and bottom of the screen (typical register value is 0D)."

There are other registers for width, something called sidetrap, etc. I'd hope any servicer would bring a printed copy of the service manual, if not a CDROM on a notebook computer.


I asked one of my service contacts about the intermittent and brief (2 sec) periodic losses of either sync or one color, thinking I don't want to tackle something tough like that either after my service warranty expires. He said it wasn't hardware going, but was caused by memory overload (associated with the microprocessor, I'd assume). Hope he's correct--it's a glitch I can live with, too, if it's not hardware slowly failing.


Haven't had any more extreme misconvergence problems since we discussed it a while back. I simply avoid switching into 'odd' modes; haven't encountered the problem of misconvergence when shutting down in ATSC, but henceforth I'll always switch to NTSC. Thanks for the warning.


So far, i haven't even tried the digital Dolby yet. I'm still patiently awaiting the introduction of Dolby Headphone technology that provides an 'out-of-head' surround-sound experience without speakers, using any headphones.


Early on in my service department contacts at Philips, one guy told me they don't deal with problems via e-mail. Sounds like you've used both calls and e-mail. After a string of calls from me regarding the complete loss of sync with a progressive DVD input, my contact gave me the excuse he'd have to get in touch with an engineer, and after a few weeks I tried another approach. Swapping two modules cured that problem.


So, only problem I still have, which no one else seems to, is that one HDTV station, CBS via Time Warner Cable, seems to have slightly too much red within some shades of blue, making them appear too purple. But I don't have that problem with HBO, also via cable, so it's still up in the air what's causing the problem. The tech who swapped my fans pointed out the obvious: that you can't tweak or calibrate a set for only one program source.


--John



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[This message has been edited by John Mason (edited 03-03-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Joshua:
...My only suggestion would be to contact a knowledgeable, competent east coast ISF guy like Gary Merson or Chuck Williams and have them look at the set...
Hi Kent,


Yeah, the ISF Cal would probably do the trick. Philosophically, I have a big issue in spending more of MY money to correct Philips' warranty problem. I’ve already sunk $1200 into a HTPC to work around the video game jitter problem. Granted, that I now use the HTPC for DVD playback, web surfing etc, but I doubt I would have chosen this route where it not for the video game problems. It also looks like I'll need to spend more money to replace my Kenwood 1090VR DD receiver if I ever want to listen to Dolby Digital on ATSC feeds. I’m just curious who (at Philips) do I send the bill to if the new receiver does the same thing?


Regards -- Steve




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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Abdul,


Thanks for the reply. I'm convinced there's something wrong with this set that goes beyond simply increasing overscan.

Quote:
The fix is simple. Adjust the horizontal size in the service menu to put the offending portion out of the visible screen, i.e., adjust the horizontal overscan. Most sets come out of the box with far more overscan than the Philips sets; out of the box, a particular Toshiba 56H80 cut out close to 50% of the HDTV image! Furthermore, most sets look much worse than the Philips sets if you adjust them to have only as much overscan as the Philips sets have out of the box. Sweep your problems under the rug by increasing the overscan. There is no shame in 7% overscan, though 10% would definitely be a pity.
I took some quick overscan measurements using AVIA. Using my set top Sony DVP-S7700 DVD Player with the 9905 in DVD input mode I have the following:


Vertical Overscan: 8% Total

Horizontal Overscan: 6% Total


To eliminate the bowing in this mode I would need to adjust overscan to cut an additional 4 inches of image (2" on each side) in the horizontal axis. This would increase my total overscan to approx 13%--Not acceptable.


Quick math:

Viewable image width (with screen frame attached): 55 1/2"

Total overscan inches required to eliminate bowing: 4"


4 / 55.5 = 0.073 (7.3%)

7.3% + 6% (existing overscan) = 13.3%



Taking the same measurements in SVGA mode is more difficult since PowerDVD windowboxes the non-amamorphic AVIA test pattern. I unchecked the "Keep aspect ratio" option to allow the test image to fill the entire screen. I'm not sure how accurate a result this would give me however.


Using PowerDVD 3.0 with the 9905 in EXT-HD mode I have the following:


Vertical Overscan: 5% Total

Horizontal Overscan: 4% Total


As with the DVD input mode I would need to adjust overscan to cut an additional 4 inches of image (2" on each side) in the horizontal axis. This would increase my total overscan to approx 11%--Better but still not acceptable. As above, same math applies.


I have no way of measuring ATSC overscan, but based on the bowing I see in ATSC mode I suspect I would need similarly large overscan adjustments to minimize bowing in this mode.

Quote:
My guess is that this could be avoided if you don't use the AUTO sync option.
The 9905 has a built in ATSC tuner and as such has no "Auto" sync mode as found on the SVGA input.

Quote:
I actually never use these. I route all S-video (and composite video) through my Kenwood VR-407 receiver, which serves as a video switcher, and then into my DVDO iScan Pro and finally into the AUX 4 HD Y Pb Pr input. I have never seen a loss of sync.
I seldom use these modes now that I use my HTPC for deinterlacing and scaling and DVD playback. I have yet to see the problem occur in the EXT-HD or ATSC modes but I'm still concerned this represents a hardware problem that will worsen in the future.

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I've never seen Video games jitter on my 60PP9601. I use a Sony PS2 with component inputs routed through the DVDO iScan Pro. I also did not see jitter when I had the PS2 connected directly to the 60PP9601. I also do not see jitter on my PC's 800x600 @ 60 Hz input into AUX 5. Anyway, Video game jitter is a known problem with the set and is even mentioned in the 60PP9601 manual. A DVDO iScan Pro should solve the problem.
No need for the DVDO, I use dTV for DSS and video game deinterlacing & scaling with excellent results. BTW, no video game jitter is mentioned in the 9905's manual.


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Not applicable to my set. I do get occasional drop-outs on DD on a variety of hardware that is completely separate from my TV. You might try breaking down and buying a DTC-100 or similar if all else fails - you'll need one anyway for HD from satellite.
Not enough HD material on DishNetwork to justify a E* Model 6000 receiver. Plus, the Boston area has pretty good ota hd.

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This is another known problem with the Philips sets, and it is fixable or at least improvable. Get the known Philips fan repair and/or place a piece of sound absorbant material behind the set.
I installed a 2' X 4' sheet of accoustic foam behind the fans the first week I had the 9905. It helped a bit but not enough. I'm confident the new fans will correct this problem and like I said, I can live with this one.

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One problem you did not mention is that your line doubler really sucks.
Actually, other than video game bounce, I don't have an issue with the sets internal line doubler. Like I said earlier, I would probably not have gone the HTPC route otherwise. I must say however, that I have no regrets with the HTPC.


Regards -- Steve


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STOP DFAST, BOYCOTT JVC, LONG LIVE HDTV


[This message has been edited by SteveV (edited 03-03-2001).]
 

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Steve:


Have you checked into what consumer-protection laws are available in your state? Unfortunately, the best way to get a manufacturer's attention is usually to have a lawyer write them a nasty letter. Depending on the laws in your state, you may be able to get your money back based solely on the lack of communication from the manufacturer as to warranty service. Some state laws, in fact, allow you to recover triple the cost of the item, although it usually takes a judge's order for that.


While taking this route may be a pain in the arse, it sounds like you've already been through much worse dealing directly with Philips....


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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
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Originally posted by Dean Roddey:
Pretty much all RPTVs have to have a certain amount of overscan because they cannot keep a clean image all the way out to the edges.
Dean,


I'd gladly add some reasonable amount of overscan to eliminate the geometry issue. However, based on my AVIA overscan pattern observations the amount of total overscan required would be quite high (11% to 13%). Given that other 9905 owners are not seeing the bowing problem, I have to conclude that there is something wrong with my set.


dkeller_NC,


I haven't looked into Massachusetts' consumer-protection laws yet but understand that they're VERY consumer friendly. I really would like to avoid dragging lawyers into this. I'm not looking to make any money off of Philips, I just want them to do what's right. Having said that, if I get no positive response from Philips within the next week it's pretty likely I'll be giving my lawyer a buzz.


Regards -- Steve


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I'm not looking to make any money off of Philips, I just want them to do what's right.


Sounds like it's already too late for them to do what's right. Even if they show up in your driveway this afternoon with a replacement set, you're already due at least an apology for having been ignored for a couple of months. After having similar experiences dealing with Pioneer over the truly-awful 700HD, I've no sympathy for big companies that leave their customers high and dry. Pioneer eventually replaced the 700HD with a 710HD, but not before extracting $1k from me for "shipping and handling".


Don't give up!


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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by dkeller_NC:
...Pioneer eventually replaced the 700HD with a 710HD, but not before extracting $1k from me for "shipping and handling"...
Ouch! Out of curiosity, did you have to go the "consumer-protection, get the lawyers involved" route to get them to replace your 700HD? If so, any advice you can share would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks -- Steve


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STOP DFAST, BOYCOTT JVC, LONG LIVE HDTV


[This message has been edited by SteveV (edited 03-04-2001).]
 
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