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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was at a local dealer yesterday and they are selling their demo RDC-7. I asked them their price and they offered $3400 for the demo unit. I'm very interested in the Integra, but it seems to me that the street price of these has been in the $3200 to $3500 range, no? Consequently, it seems to me that a demo unit should be less. Anyway, where would you suggest finding the cheapest price on the Integra?


I know the etiquette of this is normally to discuss it by e-mail, so I apologize if I've put too much info. above. Thank you for any info. in advance.
 

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I purchased an "open box" RDC-7 two months ago from a local dealer for $2900. The dealer was very motivated to sell. The dealer told me that someone had purchased the unit without consulting with the wife. The wife said..."it's going back", so back it went. At least that is the dealer's story. I think that the unit had been in their stock for quite some time before it sold originally, because it did not have the DPLII upgrade. Onkyo was kind enough to send me the upgrade CD for free after I contacted them and explained the situation. Onkyo was very easy and considerate to work with.


Anyway, I would think that a demo unit should go for no more than $3200, as I was quoted $3500 for a brand new unit.
 

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I Love my RDC7 but think closer to $3k or 32 is fair. Any idea how many hours it has on it (did they leave it on all day)? Not that solid state components have the same wear and tear issues as say video sources but still...

TM
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm not sure the actual hours on the unit, but it always seems to be on during store hours and I think it has been their demo unit since the RDC-7 came out; that's alot of hours!


It definitely seems like the dealer is asking a bit much....


BTW, does the RDC-7 do anything 'different' with its seven channels? Or does it just repeat the side/rear info?


Thanks again!
 

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$3400 for a demo is way too much considering that I bought it new for $3100. I don't think that they'll ever sell it for that price. I'd say that a fair price would be $2700, maybe $2800 but no more than that. I wouldn't worry too much about it being used for many hours. You'll get the 3-year warranty and I never heard of anyone ever having problems with the RDC-7. From what I've read and heard Onkyo uses very high quality parts on the Integra Research preamp.


The RDC-7 MSRP will jump to $4500 in June, once they upgrade it to THX Ultra 2 and other goodies. The upgrade will be offered until August for $250 to current owners so the best thing to do is to buy one now while the MSRP is still $4000 and upgrade it for $250 in June/July.


Razvan
 

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Hi,


I would advise you to be aware of two issues that may affect your decision to buy the RDC-7. The first is that if you have full range speakers than you need to aware that there is only an 80hz cutover that is fixed. In the upgrade they are planning on cutting over at 80hz,100hz, and 120hz with full range speakers you would probably want to cutover at 40hz which the RDC-7 can't and won't do in the future. Apparently Integra is under the misconception that everyone runs their speakers as small and doesn't bull full range speakers. The second issue is that if you want to use video switching for HD sources it won't work because the bandwidth on the RDC-7 is limited to 45hz. If these are not major concerns to, then go for it. I would also recommed that you check out the Anthem AVM-20 which isn't limited by the above concerns and is in the same price ballpark. Hope this helps.


Rich
 

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Rich,

I think you may be mistaken about the capabilities of the RDC7 component video switching bandwidth. I use it to switch among 3 component sources (DVD, PS2 and HD cable) and it works fine. HD looks amazing. On their site they even call the video switching "HDTV-Ready with 45-MHz-Wide Video Signal Path"

Thanks,

TM
 

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Hi Anthony,



I don't believe I am. You are only using one HD source, the HD cable the DVD and the PS2 are not high definition sources. For example if you tried to switch your HD Cable and HD Sattelite signals you would see a degragation in the single. But if you don't have two HD sources this isn't a problem as you have observed. Mathamaticaly you would need 75mhz or better to be able to do this. Both the Anthem AVM-20 and Lexicon MC12 have video switching at these levels.


Regards,
 

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Rich,


I think - but I'm not sure - that the new upgrade will include a change in the bandwidth as required by the new THX Ultra 2 certification.


You're right about the cutovers, they're a joke.


Regarding the Anthem, Integra has come up with relatively inexpensive upgrades for the RDC-7 while the Anthem still doesn't have DPLII. When I bought my RDC-7 I also considered the Anthem but picked the RDC-7 because of its proven record of upgradeability. The Integra is a 2-year old preamp but, due to these upgrades, its features are up-to-date. Almost all of the other preamps released 2 years ago are dated.


Razvan
 

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Hi Razvanel,


Actually the Anthem will be upgraded in June to include the DLPII, Prologic II and just THX Ultra2 and just about anything else you can think of. They also have an excellent history of upgradablity. There are excellent reviews in Secrets to Home Thearter, Stereofile Guide to Home Theater, and most recently in Perfect Vision. The reviews actually hint that it competes with the Lexicon MC12 except for Logic 7 and Anthem actually has its on version called Cinema Logic for 2 channel music. They have indicated that they will be upgrading this too with the new version of downloadable firmware. I havn't seen any indication from Integra that they plan on upgrading the Video switcher. One would think that they would if they can do their math correctly but what where they thinking with those crossovers! They must think everyone has small inexpensive speakers, that has to be one of most stupidest plunders I have seen. Any way glad to hear your enjoying your RDC-7 good luck to you.


Regards,
 

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Anthem releasing a new highend pre/pro without DPL 2 was a joke. Sure they are promising it in June but for 3 grand it should have it on release. Especially considering most mass market receivers have it now. As for a good track record , the AVM-2 was not one for for the record books. Anthem's version of logic 7 is a joke compared to Lexicon and should not be mentioned in the same breath.




Frank
 

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Hi Rich,

Thanks for the clarification, I think. It's still not intuitive to me why it would matter whether I had 1 HD source, 2 or 3 being switched. The individual signal (say the HD signal) still has to go through whatever internal routing is required, no? Why would it matter if the other source(s) were SD or HD? If they mattered, that implies that at some point in the switching it's the total bandwidth of the conbined sources that matters, not the bandwidth alloted to a single source, no? Therefore the answer to the question "how much bandwidth do you need to switch HD sources?" would be "it depends on the number of components connected.


Also, has anyone brought this up with Integra Research, who clearly call their component switching HDTV ready?


TM
 

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Just checked the THX website and according to them Ultra2 includes the requirement that video switching be of sufficient bandwidth to handle HD.

So maybe an upgrade is in store assuming Rich is correct.

TM
 

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The Anthem unit uses the Motorola processor, which is considered by many to be the best on the market. Motorola has been very slow in their new release, that is the reason Anthem and others have released products without DPLII. If Anthem is convinced that the Motorola is best for their unit I applaud them for not switching to Cirrus or something else just to offer DPLII. The only reason they would even consider this would be to avoid being considered a "joke".


I don't own any Anthem products but the AVM-20 is very nice unit.


Ken
 

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I agree that bass management is a weakness in the RDC-7 but I am hopeful this will be corrected in the next update. Everyone has started complaining to them about it.


I am planning on buying the new upgraded model anyway along with its seven channel matching amp. Also considered the Anthem but in the end I think that the Integra may have better quality and features for about the same price. :)
 

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Everyone who has reported has said that the RDC-7 switches HDTV flawlessly. TM's assessment seems correct, if the number of HDTV components effected the switching capabilitites, there would be bandwith specifications based upon the number of components connected. I have yet to see a manufacturer, reviewer, etc. make this point. Only one signal goes through at a time, so Rich's conclusion seems a bit illogical to me.
 

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Hi Folks,


My opinion of the Integra's video capablity is based on the following math.


HD is 1080i interlaced translates into the math of 1920x540x60, this equals a pixel clock of over 60mHz the Integra only has 45mhz therefore the signal has to be degraded even with a single HD connection.

You need to have video bandwidth of at least 60mhz but you really need 100mHz to properly pass an HDTV signal without softening. As for progressive scan the DVD the Pixel clock for 480p would be somewhere along the lines of 720x480x60 or 20mHz, so the 45mHz bandwidth would just be able to do the job for progressive scan DVD. If I am wrong in my calculations please let me know but I believe they are correct If I was shopping for a pre/pro and I wanted to video switching I would be sure that the Pre/pro had at least 100mhz of bandwidth.


Regards,
 

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One more final thought here, is be sure that you can live with the planned bass crossovers. Because if you spent lets say 25k on full range speakers you are going to probably want to cross them over at around 40hz which the Integra can't do. So my advise when buying a pre/pro is make sure that it can support the speakers you have or are planning to buy. If you are just starting to build a HT I would recommend you start with the speakers, amps and then the Pre/Pro. Just my opinion but I hope it helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Wow, some really great discussion. In re: to building a home theater from the speakers in, I've been rebuilding my system. I'm going to be using Magnepan speakers, SVS subs, and Citation amps to power the whole lot. What would you all recommend for a pre/pro? I've been looking at the Integra (it has seemed to be the leader), the Anthem, and the Aragon Stage One. If Lexicon came out with a baby MC-12 I'd most assuredly put it in the running, but as it is I simply cannot afford an MC-12.


Thanks!
 
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