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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
 http://www.satbiznews.com/

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Thomson's decision to stop building UltimateTV boxes, prompted by DirecTv, is evidence of how a short-term bean counter mentality is overshadowing long-term strategic thinking at DirecTv.
Another reason to tell Charlie to go to hell ....

Thanks to Bob at DBSFORUMS:mad: :p :mad: :( :( :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Its the merger. They are reducing cost before going into the merger........
 

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Corey, could you give us the text of the article? I went to the site you mentioned and could only find a one line description of the article. Looks like you need a subscription to get the actual article.


I found the link to Bob's comments on dbsforums, but he did not give text of the article either.

http://www.dbsforums.com/ubb/ultimat...&f=14&t=002457


Makes me wonder about the UTV rep who said the new RCA 70 hr UTV was proof that UTV was not dying. Looks like the UTV hardware is officially dead, and it is only a matter of time before the software will die too. With no new UTV boxes the UTV customer base will stay at its small size. Probably just about the right size to "beta test" features for whatever Microsoft's UTV replacement will be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
steve: you can't get the full article unless you pay for it (i've always asked at dbsforums if we could just pool are money together and pay for a year but i think satbiz wouldn't allow it)....
 

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Just like in the dbsforum stated, and I looked as well, there is no corroborating facts for this. Right now, it's just a rumor, treat it as such.


I love doom sayers. They will predict the sky will fall, you just wait (inevitably, it will).


Keith
 

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And so what if it is true. Hughes and Philips discontinued DTivo many months ago and they are still available. Other OEMs could be lined up. PVRs could become a viable product after all. How good is your crystal ball?
 

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These receivers are manufactured in large batches... what your are seeing is the manufactures are not doing any additional followup orders.. for whatever ever reason.. usually one of two reasons... they didn't sell enough in volume at the projected cost and / or the failure rates to high during warranty period eating any profits from the initial sale.


These people got out because they lost money.... big time.... try buying a HDTV receiver for $100... and they don't include a $100+ hard disk drive! :D


It will be interesting to see what TiVo sells their next generation Directv receiver for... I would guess this time they will sell for $400. each but this time there won't be a problem.. they would do well to include a 1 year parts and labor warranty though as their track recorded hasn't been to good.... not that the other have all that much better either... ;)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by UTV
And so what if it is true. Hughes and Philips discontinued DTivo many months ago and they are still available. Other OEMs could be lined up. PVRs could become a viable product after all. How good is your crystal ball?
Given that Hughes is part of DirecTv and that DirecTv is going to be producing a Series II DirecTiVo, I would expect that there will be a Hughes labeled DirecTiVo. Unlike UltimateTV, DirecTv and TiVo have both publicly committed to producing a Series II integrated receiver. TiVo has already released their Series II stand alone receiver and I expect that the integrated box will be out by September or so.


I would be shocked if some new OEM agrees to build new UltimateTV receivers. As has been noted before, if you are happy with the feature set that exists right now, and you do not care about adding receivers at some future time, then an UltimateTV receiver is fine.


/carmi
 

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In comparison with DirecTivo's the UTV is basically dead.


The only new UTV box simply increases the size of the hard disk. No other hardware improvements.


The new Tivo 2 series has a faster processor, more memory, etc. Things you would expect with a product that is alive and prospering. Just like we expect computers to get faster (and cheaper) over time.


If you already have a UTV, and you like it, then stay with it. It does a good job. If you are deciding on your first or next PRV, go with Tivo. It has a future and a past history of software and hardware enhancements.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by stevepvr
The new Tivo 2 series has a faster processor, more memory, etc. Things you would expect with a product that is alive and prospering.
The Tivo 2 series is an entirely new product. It is not an upgrade to the original Directivo. If you own a Directivo you do not benefit at all from the series 2. It is just as easy to "upgrade" from a UTV to Tivo series 2 as it is from a Directivo. I just don't understand the thinking that Directivo is "better" because they are still updating it. They are not. Tivo is coming out with a new product with no upgrade path for existing Directivo users that will have to pay full price for the new model..


Jay
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by jerndl
The Tivo 2 series is an entirely new product. It is not an upgrade to the original Directivo.
It runs the same software, and so far, all the new features have been supported on Series 1 hardware as well. For example, 3.0/3.1 add support for TurboNet/TiVoNet cards on Series I boxes and USB ethernet devices on Series II receivers. While at some point they will have to stop development for the Series I boxes, currently every feature that they can support on both boxes they have.


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If you own a Directivo you do not benefit at all from the series 2.
Actually, as noted above, DirecTiVo receiver owners have already benefitted from the development of Series II receivers (or more accurately, from the general health of TiVo's development efforts).

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It is just as easy to "upgrade" from a UTV to Tivo series 2 as it is from a Directivo.
I can add new DirecTiVo Series II receivers and still only pay $9.95 a month (or if I paid for lifetime service and I add a receiver, pay nothing more). Were I to have started with an UltimateTV box and I added a DirecTiVo receiver I would have to pay an additional $9.95 for my new receiver. Seems like it is easier to stay with DirecTiVo than have to switch.

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I just don't understand the thinking that Directivo is "better" because they are still updating it.
Fairly obvious.

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They are not.
Wrong. See above.

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Tivo is coming out with a new product with no upgrade path for existing Directivo users that will have to pay full price for the new model..


Jay [/b]
Except, as noted, they will not have to pay an extra service fee for their new boxes, will not have to learn a new interface, and will benefit from as many of the new features as will work on the current hardware.


/carmi
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by majortom
I can add new DirecTiVo Series II receivers and still only pay $9.95 a month (or if I paid for lifetime service and I add a receiver, pay nothing more). Were I to have started with an UltimateTV box and I added a DirecTiVo receiver I would have to pay an additional $9.95 for my new receiver. Seems like it is easier to stay with DirecTiVo than have to switch.
This argument is only valid for someone who wants to mix products. If a typical UTV user (with one machine) replaces his UTV with a new Directivo 2 they will just pay a monthly fee to Tivo instead of UTV. I think most people that want multiple units will want them to be the same (i.e. all UTV or all Directivo). Also, I thought that the lifetime service was for a specific piece of harware. I didn't think it could transfer to newer models. Is it true that what you say above above about existing owers of a Directivo (w/lifetime service) can add a series 2 box and not pay anything more? Can you also transfer lifetime service from one machine(original) to another (series 2)?


I guess my main point is that UTVs are so cheap to purchase ($50), that if the Directivo 2 (or some other products) becomes available with some super duper features, I would just junk my 2 UTVs and buy the new product. At $50 it's hard to imagine any senario where someone wouldn't get their money's worth with UTV. I've had one for about 6 months and another one for about 3 months and feel that I have already gotten my money's worth. At this point considering the price difference (and availability) and the current capability of each product I don't see how buying a Directivo could be consider a "better" deal.


BTW, my statements (at least partially) regarding current Directivo owners not benefiting from the series 2 was based on stevepvr's comment
Quote:
The new Tivo 2 series has a faster processor, more memory, etc. Things you would expect with a product that is alive and prospering. Just like we expect computers to get faster (and cheaper) over time
You only get these thing if you buy a new series 2 machine regardless of whether or not you currently own a Directivo or UTV.



Jay
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by jerndl

It is just as easy to "upgrade" from a UTV to Tivo series 2 as it is from a Directivo.

This argument is only valid for someone who wants to mix products. If a typical UTV user (with one machine) replaces his UTV with a new Directivo 2 they will just pay a monthly fee to Tivo instead of UTV. I think most people that want multiple units will want them to be the same (i.e. all UTV or all Directivo).
If one wants to add a system in 6 months and one has a DirecTiVo, they can just add one without haveing to replace all their systems. An UltimateTV customer will either have to replace all receivers or pay an extra $9.95 a month. Your second statement contradicts your first in that an UltimateTV customer needs to replace all systems to upgrade while a Series I DirecTiVo receiver owner could just add one Series II DirecTiVo box and still have the same interface on every unit and would not have to learn a new interface to upgrade.


This certainly seems easier.


Quote:
Also, I thought that the lifetime service was for a specific piece of harware. I didn't think it could transfer to newer models. Is it true that what you say above above about existing owers of a Directivo (w/lifetime service) can add a series 2 box and not pay anything more? Can you also transfer lifetime service from one machine(original) to another (series 2)?
As long as the primary receiver is active, one can add as many receivers as one wants and still be covered by the same lifetime fee. Even if one wants some number of Series II DirecTiVo receivers, one can still use one's primary DirecTiVo either as a secondary receiver (in a guest room or bedroom) or just for more two extra tuners and 35 more hours of space.

Quote:
I guess my main point is that UTVs are so cheap to purchase ($50), that if the Directivo 2 (or some other products) becomes available with some super duper features, I would just junk my 2 UTVs and buy the new product. At $50 it's hard to imagine any senario where someone wouldn't get their money's worth with UTV. I've had one for about 6 months and another one for about 3 months and feel that I have already gotten my money's worth. At this point considering the price difference (and availability) and the current capability of each product I don't see how buying a Directivo could be consider a "better" deal.
That may be your point, but you did not say anything like that in your previous post.

Quote:
BTW, my statements (at least partially) regarding current Directivo owners not benefiting from the series 2 was based on stevepvr's comment You only get these thing if you buy a new series 2 machine regardless of whether or not you currently own a Directivo or UTV.



Jay
His comments were about new hardware features, and you are right, you do not get new hardware from TiVo without buying it, although they have often had discounts for current owners. You do get new software features and the fact that they are actively developing their platform means that they are much more likely to add features than Microsoft is, making it less likely that I will have to replace my current receivers to get many of the new features I want (like ethernet support).


/carmi
 

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majortom said:


"As long as the primary receiver is active, one can add as many receivers as one wants and still be covered by the same lifetime fee. Even if one wants some number of Series II DirecTiVo receivers, one can still use one's primary DirecTiVo either as a secondary receiver (in a guest room or bedroom) or just for more two extra tuners and 35 more hours of space. "


--------------------------


That's interesting. So as long as you keep the lifetime receiver in use, you never have to pay monthly fees no matter what new Tivos you buy in the future? If true, that is a pretty good deal. Just keep the lifetime receiver online (maybe never even use it) no matter how ancient it is and all your future Tivos will not have a montly fee? Is the way it works?
 

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stevepvr: If you don't use it but keep it in use, you're spending $5/month mirroring fee for nothing -- this should be factored in.



As far as the original thread topic: I've looked for evidence backing this article up and have come up blank. Anyone else find anything?


Keep in mind that the internet has at LEAST as much disinformation out there as fact!


I, for one, am happy with my $100/box price for UTV, and will continue buying & recommending them as long as they remain this cheap.
 

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This whole (repetitous and gratuitous) thread ignores the fact that DTV and TIVO are launching a new DTIVO this fall, based on series 2 hardware, but without the inbound analog-digital converters.


The announcement of the partnership on Feb 21 outlines a launch schedule (Holiday Season 2002) and a technology platform (TIVO Series 2).


If anyone thinks for a moment that DTV will leave the inbound analog capabilities in this box, they are nuts. This system will be subsudized by DTV, and they won't let it handle cable TV signals, plus they will want the inbound converter hardware removed to save costs and processing.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by stevepvr
That's interesting. So as long as you keep the lifetime receiver in use, you never have to pay monthly fees no matter what new Tivos you buy in the future? If true, that is a pretty good deal. Just keep the lifetime receiver online (maybe never even use it) no matter how ancient it is and all your future Tivos will not have a montly fee? Is the way it works?
Well, we know that currently, you only pay for lifetime service on one DirecTiVo receiver, and all receivers in the house are covered (this is the same pricing that UltimateTV adopted in response to TiVo - originally, UltimateTV service cost $9.95 per box).


/carmi
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by scopeman
This whole (repetitous and gratuitous) thread ignores the fact that DTV and TIVO are launching a new DTIVO this fall, based on series 2 hardware, but without the inbound analog-digital converters.
I am not sure how Series II DirecTiVo receivers make this thread gratuitous or repetitious.

Quote:
The announcement of the partnership on Feb 21 outlines a launch schedule (Holiday Season 2002) and a technology platform (TIVO Series 2).
This has been discussed in this forum many times.

Quote:
If anyone thinks for a moment that DTV will leave the inbound analog capabilities in this box, they are nuts. This system will be subsudized by DTV, and they won't let it handle cable TV signals, plus they will want the inbound converter hardware removed to save costs and processing.
Just as Series I DirecTiVo receivers did not have MPEG-2 compression hardware, it is very likely that Series 2 DirecTiVo receivers will not have MPEG-2 compression hardware. My bet is this is primarily a cost issue, and is not mandated by DirecTv, but by the market.


I am not clear, however, how any of this is relevant to this discussion.


/carmi
 
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