AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,754 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Another forum with not enough room for a subject line:

"Those of you currently using PiP to watch TWO TV channels at once, what are you going to do after Feb. 2009?"


Hi all. I've been wasting months of time on this so I have to ask here. I'm trying to find an LCD or plasma HDTV, 40-47", with DUAL DIGITAL TUNER PiP. The only one I've been able to find is the Olevia 742i and 747i, but unfortunately their quality can't compare to Sony, Samsung, or Panasonic.


I recently verified my belief that it is possible to watch 2 TV channels at once on these other sets that have single-tuner quasi-PiP, but you have to use an external tuner source as the 2nd PiP input, like a VCR, DVR, etc. So that was good that it's at least possible.


But now the problem there lies with the input source only being analog! In all the Samsung & Panasonic manuals it states this. I'm sure it's the same with Sonys, (but I'm leaning away from them now because of their long delay when changing channels, unless you press "enter"). Does this "analog only" input source on the TV set convert DTV to analog? If so then I guess that would work ok. If not.....


So on Feb. 18th '09, I take it all these types of PiP sets will be totally useless for two TV channel PiP?


In my particular case, I have 3 years after Feb. '09 because Cox said they are going to continue to broadcast in analog along with DTV for at least 3 years. But then after that, I'll be screwed too I guess?


The big question is; who makes an LCD or Plasma HDTV that will allow one to watch two TV channels at the same time with its PiP/P&P/TwinView, long after Feb. of 2009?


Thanks for any info.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
405 Posts
I know the XBR4/5 can have PIP with digital channels. I used to watch DirecTV via S-Video and have PIP with OTA HD playing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,754 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for replying. (I was never notified that anyone had replied, is that function not working here?)


So will you still be able to do this after Feb. '09?


S-Video is analog right? If so, then one of the PiP's is/was analog.

Thanks.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,580 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. /forum/post/14188706


Thanks for replying. (I was never notified that anyone had replied, is that function not working here?)


So will you still be able to do this after Feb. '09?


S-Video is analog right? If so, then one of the PiP's is/was analog.

Thanks.

The change over to digital in Feb 09 only effects the incoming signal and as long as the source is able to accept a digital signal then it can output it in any manner the source is capable of (S-Video, composite, component or hdmi).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,754 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxdog03 /forum/post/14191566


The change over to digital in Feb 09 only effects the incoming signal and as long as the source is able to accept a digital signal then it can output it in any manner the source is capable of (S-Video, composite, component or hdmi).

Ok, the key phrase there seems to be "as long as the source is able to accept a digital signal......", so wouldn't that mean these single-tuner pseudo PiP HDTV's with the PiP source accepting only analog, will not work after Feb. '09, is that correct?

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,896 Posts
Hmm... Now I know that unlike the XBR4/5, I'm hearing that the PIP on the A650/750 seems to be a bit more limited, but whether or not it'll accept more than one digital channel at once, which was what everyone was expecting from Samsung, but I'm just sort of curious about all this. Maybe if your HTPC has a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR or something, that may be a way to watch an HD channel over PC, and then a native HD channel from your TV's own tuner? Wonder if that would resolve that one? Or even a Cable/Sat STB via component (not HDMI, since that may probably cause issues), and a native channel? Any thoughts about all this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,754 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8IronBob /forum/post/14197158


Hmm... Now I know that unlike the XBR4/5, I'm hearing that the PIP on the A650/750 seems to be a bit more limited, but whether or not it'll accept more than one digital channel at once, which was what everyone was expecting from Samsung, but I'm just sort of curious about all this.

Hello, like I mentioned in my first post, the manuals of the Samsung's and Panasonic's (I think Sony too) all say "Analog" for this other PiP input source, which I why I'm concerned about them after Feb. 18th '09. From the LN40A650 manual:

"You can use the PIP feature to simultaneously watch the TV tuner (analog broadcasts only) and one external video source. (See page 35 to select the PIP picture sound.) This product has one built-in tuner, which does not allow PIP to function in the same mode. Please see ‘PIP Settings’ below for details."


"You can view Analog TV broadcasts on the PIP screen (sub-picture) when the main picture is from an external device connected to HDMI 1, HDMI/DVI 2, HDMI 3, HDMI 4, Component1, 2 or PC", and: "You can select only analog TV broadcasts on the PIP screen (sub-picture)."


There are also other troubling areas, like "Multi-Track"/MTS" sound is only available on Analog TV channels! Same with the Sony's.


But the LN40A750 manual is slightly different:

"You can use the PIP feature to simultaneously watch the TV tuner and one external video source. (See page 36 to select the PIP picture sound.) This product has one built-in tuner, which does not allow PIP to function in the same mode. Please see ‘PIP Settings’ below for details."


Notice that area is about the same as the 650 manual but it does not say "analog" there. But here like the 750 manual, it does:
You can view Analog TV broadcasts on the PIP screen (sub-picture) when the main picture is from an external device connected to HDMI 1, HDMI/DVI 2, HDMI 3, HDMI 4, Component1, 2 or PC. And: "You can select only analog TV broadcasts on the PIP screen (sub-picture)."


So that would seem like, I guess, the 650 series and the 750 series have the same analog only problems, I would assume the 550 series as well. Yep, I checked, same thing.


Now from the Sony manuals, 40XBR4 & 40XBR5, et al: Hmm, seems I was mistaken about this, I searched the PDF for "analog" and I can't find similar areas in their manuals. See page 31, http://www.sonystyle.com/wcsstore/So.../KDL40XBR5.pdf


So does this then mean the Sony's are the only ones that will continue to have a 2 TV channels PiP function after Feb. '09? (Or 3 years after that if you're on Cox).


If that is true, then that rules out the Samsung TV's. Has anyone found a way around this long channel change delay on the Sony TV's? Does this still happen if a universal remote is used? (For those that don't have a Sony, it's like many cable boxes where if you press, say "05" it won't go to ch. 5 for two seconds, unless you also hit "enter". That sucks. That's the main reason why my cable box is by-passed all the time unless I watch something on premium cable, it's just too slow. With my current TV's remote, I press 0+5 and it immediately changes).

Quote:
Maybe if your HTPC has a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR or something, that may be a way to watch an HD channel over PC, and then a native HD channel from your TV's own tuner? Wonder if that would resolve that one? Or even a Cable/Sat STB via component (not HDMI, since that may probably cause issues), and a native channel? Any thoughts about all this?

I don't use a HTPC.
My PC's are in my office and my main TV in my bedroom, and I don't plan on integrating them, after 12-14 hrs a day of work, a PC is the last thing I want to see! LOL.



One more thing in closing....to complicate matters further, has anyone seen these DTV2009.org commercials where the person says "....If you're connected to cable, you don't need to do anything" (after Feb. 09). Huh? So all the millions of existing analog TV's will still continue work just as they do now as long as they use cable TV? That can't be right. Not all cable providers are doing what Cox is doing, or even if they are, that's only a 3yr period.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,754 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
^
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,754 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Anyone?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
145 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. /forum/post/14198098


One more thing in closing....to complicate matters further, has anyone seen these DTV2009.org commercials where the person says "....If you're connected to cable, you don't need to do anything" (after Feb. 09). Huh? So all the millions of existing analog TV's will still continue work just as they do now as long as they use cable TV? That can't be right. Not all cable providers are doing what Cox is doing, or even if they are, that's only a 3yr period.

The DTV commercial is correct. The cable company's set top box will do the digital-to-analog conversion for you. Verizon FIOS has already switched to digital in my area, and I can watch my analog TV hooked up to the set top box.
http://www.dtv.gov/consumercorner.html


About the PIP thing, you can watch an external source (hdmi, component, etc.) on the main picture and the internal tuner on the PIP. The external source can be a set top box, a bluray or dvd player, or anything else. The internal tuner is an analog tuner, but you should be able to hook up another source, like another set top box or a PC with a TV tuner, and play it through channel 3 of the internal tuner, to get a second TV channel. This won't be high-def, since you are routing the signal through the internal analog tuner, but you will get a picture.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,754 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by coppertubing /forum/post/14212140


The DTV commercial is correct. The cable company's set top box will do the digital-to-analog conversion for you.

(I don't understand this problem with email notifications!)

Thanks for the info. What if you don't use a cable box? Not everyone does.


Are you saying that all cable boxes will convert digital to analog? Even if you're using a DTV you'd still be viewing analog? Or does it broadcast both DTV and analog?


I rarely use the box, so this would be a problem for me for 2-TV channel PiP. You also can't use the box when viewing one TV channel and recording another unless I guess you have a dual-tuner box.


Would a dual tuner box allow any PiP HDTV to view 2 TV channels at once?

Quote:
About the PIP thing, you can watch an external source (hdmi, component, etc.) on the main picture and the internal tuner on the PIP. The external source can be a set top box, a bluray or dvd player, or anything else.

Can the "external source" you mention be another TV channel?


What about if the external source is digital, and like on the Samsung TV's the PiP source can only be analog? "So does this then mean the Sony's are the only ones that will continue to have a 2 TV channels PiP function after Feb. '09? (Or 3 years after that if you're on Cox)."

Quote:
The internal tuner is an analog tuner,....

Which internal tuner.....are you saying the internal ATSC tuners on HDTV's are analog? How can this be?

Quote:
....but you should be able to hook up another source, like another set top box or a PC with a TV tuner, and play it through channel 3 of the internal tuner, to get a second TV channel.

What about the tuner from a VCR?

Quote:
This won't be high-def, since you are routing the signal through the internal analog tuner, but you will get a picture.

I don't guess it would have to be hi-def since you'd be looking at a small PiP. Again I'm really confused on this "internal analog tuner" bit.
I know all HDTV's that I've looked at that have the single tuner, call it a "ATSC/NTSC/QAM" tuner, and I know NTSC is analog, but I took that to mean they are only capable of receiving and displaying those ATSC/NTSC/QAM signals NOW, but after Feb. '09 the NTSC part will be of no use.


Thanks again for the reply.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,754 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
(why can't we delete our posts?)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,896 Posts
The good thing with a direct cable connection, like hooking up a cable feed without a set-top box, and if you have an HDTV with a digital tuner, you will not only receive your 70 - 80 channel lineup, but when you program your digital side of your television, you'll pretty much get your local HD channels via the QAM setup. I've done that, and don't regret it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,754 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8IronBob /forum/post/14229196


The good thing with a direct cable connection, like hooking up a cable feed without a set-top box, and if you have an HDTV with a digital tuner, you will not only receive your 70 - 80 channel lineup, but when you program your digital side of your television, you'll pretty much get your local HD channels via the QAM setup. I've done that, and don't regret it.

Ok that's good to know and something else I was wondering about. Thanks. Won't the local channels also still be on cable as they are now? Like for example, the ABC affiliate here is cable ch. 5, "air" ch 2 on TV's with no cable. So wouldn't it still be ch. 5?


Here's something else I don't understand: Will an HDTV be able to actually view HDTV channels on its own, or are you shackled to the cable box for HD channels?


Also, (using the ABC affiliate again for an example), right now the HD version of it is ch. 705. Will that change after Feb. '09 or will it still remain 705? If it remains 705, then the HD tuner in an HDTV is useless, correct?

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,754 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
"Coppertubing", "Bob"?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,754 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
^^
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,754 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
^^
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,754 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Can anyone please reply to this addressing these questions? Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,501 Posts
Just in case you are not aware, with a DVR there are two tuners built in and it has PIP functions built in. SO regardless of the type of TV you have, you can watch two different channels at the same time with PIP (not split screen though).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,754 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 /forum/post/14284455


Just in case you are not aware, with a DVR there are two tuners built in and it has PIP functions built in. SO regardless of the type of TV you have, you can watch two different channels at the same time with PIP (not split screen though).
Thanks a bunch for that info, now THAT is something I needed to know! I did not know that, I thought you could get single or dual-tuner DVR's. Now I'm not talking about TiVo or ReplayTV type sets, like I said I'm just wondering about the DVR that acts just like a VCR except with a hard drive, a DVR where you don't have to pay for a subscription service.

Thanks again.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top