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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
The manual is now out for the Samsung NX500. This was the compact and relatively cheap camera with NX1 innards (same sensor and processor) that would shoot 4K on an APS-C sensor.

But,

1. The 4K is done by cropping the sensor. The NX1 samples the whole sensor. This means on the NX500 the crop mode is more than 2X35mm, as opposed to 1.5 on the NX1. Impossible to get wide angles with any OIS lenses, including the kit zoom. It is also unclear how good cropped mode is relative to full sampling.

2. The maximum bitrate for 4K is 40 Mbps (HEVC). That for the NX1 is 80 Mbps (HEVC).

3. There is no focus peaking in 4K mode!


And, of course, no evf or mic input, but we knew that.
 

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This leaves a gaping hole for Sony to come out with either the RX100 Mk4 or A7000 at about the same or even a higher price! One thing l'm sure Sony won't do is H.265.
 

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Since I already have six E mount lenses and E mount adapters for all my DSLR lenses I will wait for the A7000 with internal 4K.
2015 will see the release of the a7000. It will include a new version of the 16-50 powerzoom dubbed version II with much improved quality. The camera itself will feature full tethering capabilities, 4k video (uncompressed output), 1/8000 shutter speed, weather sealing, and maintain its rangefinder style. Above all this, a new 16-70 zeiss will be released that will be weather sealed as well. The 16-50 will not be weather sealed.
The sensor will be a new one, but still 24 mpx.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr3-...x-7-successor-has-4k-and-18000-shutter-speed/
 

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The manual is now out for the Samsung NX500. This was the compact and relatively cheap camera with NX1 innards (same sensor and processor) that would shoot 4K on an APS-C sensor.

But,

1. The 4K is done by cropping the sensor. The NX1 samples the whole sensor. This means on the NX500 the crop mode is more than 2X35mm, as opposed to 1.5 on the NX1. Impossible to get wide angles with any OIS lenses, including the kit zoom. It is also unclear how good cropped mode is relative to full sampling.

2. The maximum bitrate for 4K is 40 Mbps (HEVC). That for the NX1 is 80 Mbps (HEVC).

3. There is no focus peaking in 4K mode!


And, of course, no evf or mic input, but we knew that.
Mark, to me the lack of an EVF was and is a key 'deal-breaker'.

I'm really happy with the NX1 coupled with the small kit lens. It's relatively small & light, so no real interest in the NX500, especially given the omissions.
 

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The a7000 will probably have similar restrictions on 4K footage, since it is also a compact body and will have similar thermal envelope issues as a result.
 

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Well, the death is premature. There is slow-motion - 120 fps at 720p (HD). It is under the speed options (1/2X, 1/4X). This is the same as the NX1.
Oh really? I just remember when it was first released, I didn't see any 120fps mode. Maybe dpreview just didn't report it. Back on the radar then ;) Thanks for the heads up!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Oh really? I just remember when it was first released, I didn't see any 120fps mode. Maybe dpreview just didn't report it. Back on the radar then ;) Thanks for the heads up!

All these "previews" were based on Samsung-supplied specs (they are just re-written press releases), and Samsung did not supply many details. No authors of these previews or even hands-on "reviewers" actually had the manual or even shot any videos or stills with the camera. Now that we have the manual, we know more precisely what the camera can, and cannot do. We still do not know the quality of the video.
 

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All these "previews" were based on Samsung-supplied specs (they are just re-written press releases), and Samsung did not supply many details. No authors of these previews or even hands-on "reviewers" actually had the manual or even shot any videos or stills with the camera. Now that we have the manual, we know more precisely what the camera can, and cannot do. We still do not know the quality of the video.
Colour me intrigued ;) The nx1 sounded perfect except for it didn't have a flip out screen. Nx500 may just suit my needs perfectly. I'll wait for reviews of course. Also considering just getting an FZ1000. Would probably be fine for my needs as well, but I will wait and see what this Samsung can do ;) I had completely written it off, so thanks for updating me.
 

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Every camera serves a purpose. It is probably a solid upgrade for current NX300 users. Not an NX1, but there never was a reasonable possibility that it would be an NX1 in a smaller body.
 

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Except doesn't the LX100 read the sensor in the same manner as the GH4?

I think that's one of the reasons the LX100 is so much closer to the GH4 in PQ.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Let's not get carried away about limitations

Comparing the NX500 to the NX1 is a very high standard.


There was nothing in the review beyond repeating what was said in the OP in this thread about limitations (crop mode 4K, no focus peaking, lower HEVC bitrate). All the rest of the quirks (like video mode limitations) are exactly the same as in the NX1.


Let's not forget that the 4K video from the LX100 and the GH4 (they are indeed the same in this regard) is also crop mode. And they produce excellent 4K video. So, without inspection of the quality of the 4K video (not showed in that "review"), the only complaint is the reduction in fov. On the other hand, it makes your 200mm tele over 400mm, in full 4K!


As to focus peaking - you can focus peak to get focus and then press the video button (if the lens has an mf switch). You video will retain that focus point and be spot on. Focus peaking while shooting video is useful for manual focus pulls, but actually the focus push on the lcd, with choice of focus speeds, will do just as well if not better for focus pulls.


Finally, 40 Mbps H265 may be equivalent to over 100 Mbps H264, the max bitrate for the GH4 and the AX100.


What is not a surmountable issue is the lack of an evf, if one values that.
 

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Mark, the only problem with focus pulls on the LCD is that it necessitates holding the camera with one hand and further impacting the video's stability by touching the LCD to change focus points.

But yes, the killer for me, is the lack of EVF. I've never understood how people deal with an LCD-only setup on bright sunny days. Even if you can see your subject in bright sunlight and frame properly, you just can't see critical issues like color and focus with any degree of accuracy.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
One more limitation

The maximum length of a clip for 4K video is 15 minutes. This limit does not exist for the NX1 (it is the regular 30 minutes). This suggests that overheating is an issue with small cameras shooting 4K - this is the same limit that exists in the LX100 for 4K. Maybe also why the bitrate is lower for the NX500 than for the NX1 in 4K.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
So, is the NX500 4K worse than the NX1 4K?

Test 1: Shot side by side to get the same approximate pov. Both lenses set so the ISO was the same (up to) 800 and at the same f-stop. Both used the same lens (NX 16-50mm PZ). The NX1 was closer in to mimic the crop factor of the NX500. Shutter priority mode at 1/60th for both. Standard color. AWB. SAF.


https://vimeo.com/123042825


Is this the best test? Well, at least I could control the light and approximate the pov.
 

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So what's your perception Mark? I'm out and can't download or view on a 4K monitor.

The downloadable clip I viewed on that other site was not impressive and seemed quite soft.

This was one I actually thought you wouldn't get.
 
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