[eieio]

I was told that if I were to use a non-THX sub that whenever I decrease the volume below reference (0 db), which is quite possibly quite often, that the only way to adjust the output of the subwoofer is to use the sub's volume knob on the sub itself, as oppose to using a THX sub, in which case when one lowers the overall volume on the pre/pro or receiver, the THX sub's volume decreases accordingly.


I am wondering if this is indeed true or is it untrue and based on THX marketing hype?


i thought that using any sub with a pre/pro/receiver would allow for proper volume adjustment (including adjusting the sub's volume) whenever one were to decrease the master volume on the pre/pro/receiver.


however, since i was told otherwise, that unless it is a THX sub, adjusting the volume down on the pre/pro/receiver would simply lower the volume of everything EXCEPT the output volume of the subwoofer, so it woun't work properly unless were to be willing/able to reduce the sub's volume appropriately by actually going to the sub itself and adjusting the output volume knob each time one were to go below reference (0 db).


am i totally confused? don't understand this bass management part for 5.1 systems on THX vs no THX.


Thanks.

 

[EricD]

THX means nothing, its like saying it has Uncle Buck's certification.

 

[DJ_JonnyV]

I agree with EricD on this one. Granted, I don't know much about all the technical ins and outs of this stuff, but I am pretty good at sniffing out what seems to be a money-making scheme. When shopping for my HT setup, I realized why THX equip. costs so much. Because these companies that get their equip. "THX certified" have to pay an exhorbitant fee to LucasFilms, or whoever, to get the certification. Naturally, you wouldn't expect the manufacturer to pick up this tab, so it gets passed onto the consumer by way of a premium for that THX certified equipment. Kind of like the big Pharma companies recouping R&D costs with the drugs they invent and patent, but at least they do some good, unlike this THX mumbo-jumbo.

 

[dbldare]

eieio,


First of all, cool screen name.


Secondly, DJ_JonnyV and EricD are both right. At least 50%.....


The main reason one would go with THX "stuff" is because it's been through a stringent series of tests. The THX equipment, wether it be speakers, amps, receivers, cables, dvds, mouthwash, whatever, is you know that they will perform at a certain level very consistantly. If you read the articles on the THX web site they will explain the requirements for each piece of equipment has to reach in order to "wear" the logo. Now there's THX Ultra2 with even a higher set of standards. Acatually, the Ultra2 equipment is also made for larger theater settings.


Can you get THX "quality" from a non-THX certified item? Absolutely!!! As a matter of fact, there is a lot of non-THX equipment that WAY outperform THX "stuff". Most of the high dollar equipment is non-THX. With that equipment, you know you're getting quality, because of the brand and reputation itself. They certainly don't need a logo (except for maybe their name) to tell you about how it will sound.


Here's a quote from the THX site:

"All THX subwoofers are designed to precisely match LCR speakers through the Electronic Crossover in a Home THX Controller or Receiver. THX Subwoofers must have an accurate in-room response down to 20 Hz. Approved systems must be able to play 105 dB sound pressure level or louder without distortion. THX subwoofers come in a variety of configurations and can be use singly or in multiples to match the requirements of even the largest listening room."


So, THX standards let you know that your equipment will do what you want it to.


You can get GREAT sound from a lot of non-THX equipment.



Hope that helps,

Mike

 

[Bigus]

The short answer is that whoever told you a "non-THX" sub wouldn't lower in volume when connected to the sub-out of any typical pre/pro or receiver was quite full of it.

 

[dbldare]

True

 

[petermwilson]

Hi,

When setting up my denon from the speaker side, when it came to the sub (if iremember right) it aked do you have a THX cetified sub, when i answered no, it asked do you have a sub that will go down to 20hz, when i aswered no, it gave me the finger and shut everything down.


Peter m.

 

[dbldare]

What??



Mike

 

[JackNine]

Quote:

Originally posted by EricD THX means nothing, its like saying it has Uncle Buck's certification.

I disagree.


THX is not "Uncle Buck's certification", nor was it ever. Getting THX certification on a particular audio product is very demanding, as I'm sure many manufacturers who post on this site could easily confirm. The tests are rigorous, and sonic accuracy is the goal. If you ever took a trip to Skywalker Sound you'd see that those guys are absolute perfectionists when it comes to audio reproduction.

 

[DJ_JonnyV]

Granted, that may be true with the rigorous tests and all, but it's still the end consumer footing the bill for it. I just finished watching Lord of the Rings on my non-THX certified system (except Elite 45tx) and it sounded pretty dang good to me. Oh well, to each their own...

 

[petermwilson]

Hi,

I read yesterday than in order to have THX ultraII certification a amp has to have 7 separate channels of amplification. i'm not an expert on whats's out there but there nust be some that have this and have not purchased the THX certificate.


Peter m.

 

[JackNine]

DJ_JonnyV, you're right, there are many systems that are non-THX certified that sound fantastic. I've heard plenty of high-end audio speakers and amplifiers that are very colored in the upper midrange, and they do sound very "pleasing" with music. I would never say that those speakers are accurate, however.


Peter, getting the THX Ultra2 spec is much more complex than just having seven separate channels of amplification.


Like anything else for home theater, it's personal preference. Some people really enjoy watching movies with properly calibrated certified THX systems, and some people do not.

 

[petermwilson]

Hi Jack,

Your absolutly right about there being much more to it. All i was pointing out was one of the "must have's", and i don't know what the list is although at the push of a button on my remote i use whatever portions of it are needed for function i'm using at the time and i have to admit it sounds pretty good.


That said, if i were listening to someone elses equipment i doubt that i would be able to say "obviously this is THX Ulra II cetified" perhaps others could but not me.


Peter m.

 

[DJ_JonnyV]

Jack,


Could you please define your definition of accurate? Accurate to what? THX standards??? I'm really not trying to pick a verbal fight here, but it's just that I, along with many other people, have a hard time buying into this THX business. I don't think a component, speaker, wire, etc., should cost 10x more than what it actually cost the manufacturer to produce it for just because it has a little THX logo on it, and meets certain design and testing criteria. What's next THX Ultra3? Just another reason for people to start upgrading again. THX says, "Well, we need more money, so let's come up with a new set of design criteria, so manufacturers will have to get their products re-certified." The manufacturers say, "Crap, standards are changing, better design new models (that are really close technically to existing models), and get them certified to sell to all the THX believers out there." Next, you're footing the bill for that THX logo. That's just the way I see this whole ordeal.

 

[wizzywug]

The fact that a component has been certified by thx has no bearing on how it sounds.Specs rarely have much to do with sound. A fair # of manufacturers dont submit their products for certification to save you money,although they could certainly pass the testing.Bottom line,I dont think it means jack.Let your ears be your guide.

 

[JackNine]

In reponse to Peter...


For the sake of home theater, if you were to do an A/B comparison with a full set (5.1) of high-quality audio speakers driven by a nice set of separates right next to a full THX Ultra2 setup, you'd absolutely notice the difference. I'm not saying you'd always like one better than the other, I'm just saying the average person would -definitely- be able to tell the two systems sound distinctly different.



In response to DJ_JonnyV...


In the audio industry, most people's definition of "accurate" is to most precisely reproduce the source material as it was originally mixed in the studio. While this may seem like a difficult feat, the whole idea of THX Home Theater is to bring that "cinema sound" to your home. Some people don't (and never will) prefer this type of sound, which is absolutely ok.


You're right in the fact that many people think the THX certification process is nothing more than a marketing tool -- a joke -- for THX to make money by placing their logo on audio components for the hell of it. That seems to be most common response I've heard over the years: "THX is garbage. They just wanna charge people more for a badge that means absolutely nothing. My system (insert manufacturer here) could have easily passed THX, but (insert manufacturer here) saved their customers money by not submitting it." The reality is that this could not be further from the truth. If you knew the amount they charge for getting a component certified, I think your opinion would change fairly quickly.



In reponse to wizzywug...


While you're definitely entitled to your opinion, I can assure you that cost in submitting the item to THX is not the determining factor as to why certain products are not certfied. And to say THX cert has no bearing on the way a product sounds is a pretty bold statement, but again, you're entitled to your opinion. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[DJ_JonnyV]

I heard that it costs roughly a cool quarter of a million to get a component certified from someone in the HT industry (retailer), not exactly pocket change for some small to mid-sized manufacturers. Also, in times like these, you think a manufacturer is going to absorb that cost? Hell, no, and they'll even figure out a way to turn a profit while recouping those THX costs. If you stop and think about it, there's a lot more associated costs with producing THX certified products internally for the manufacturer. These would include extra administrative, materials, separate manufacturing processes, etc. These costs all have to be recouped as well. So, does an end consumer "really" benefit from having THX certified equipment? Kind of like buying an Aston Martin, but then realizing that you're still driving a Ford.

 

[Kir]

Quote:

For the sake of home theater, if you were to do an A/B comparison with a full set (5.1) of high-quality audio speakers driven by a nice set of separates right next to a full THX Ultra2 setup, you'd absolutely notice the difference. I'm not saying you'd always like one better than the other, I'm just saying the average person would -definitely- be able to tell the two systems sound distinctly different.

You would notice a difference between most of the systems, THX has nothing to do with it.


As for the whole THX certification process, since it's highly secret and nobody really knows what criteria is being used (manufacturers have to sign a NDA), arguing that THX certified products are different then non-certified is like saying "my amplifier is more powerful then yours, but I can't give you the numbers - it's secret".


PS: Having seen Monster cable being THX certified and tiny computer speakers THX certified should give one a hint. "Cinema sound", anyone?


Kirill

 

[dbldare]

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ_JonnyV Kind of like buying an Aston Martin, but then realizing that you're still driving a Ford.

Yeah, but a really nice Ford that's been built to a completely different set of standards. I'm not saying eitherway that someone should or shouldn't buy THX certified equipment. Some of my equipment is and some is not. Is my theater "up to THX specs"? YES and then some. Remember that THX isn't just about equipment. It also has room specifications. Not just walls but the HVAC and lighting as well. The home end doesn't have that specification, but one should keep in mind that marketing hype or not, THX IS ALL ABOUT MAKING YOUR THEATER (and equipment) MORE LIKE THE "REAL" THING. I used to work in the car audio "world" years ago. I remember the days of these little graphic eq's or spectrum analyzers that were smaller than the size of your car audio deck. I believe they were even gold in color, and had all sorts of lights flashing around with the beat of the music. They claimed 1000watts per channel!!!!! Sure they would hit 1000w per channel just before the thing would blow up in your car!!! What I'm getting at is, it's all about standards. Are the standards up to yours? That's for you to decide with your ears and only your ears. If you are the type of person that has to have the Nike swoosh on your clothes then spend the extra money for the THX logo. Eitherway, (THX or Nike) you are getting good quality. If all you care about is the quality of your audio and video (YOUR THEATER) then buy what you are happy with. I sure love my Isuzu!


Mike

 

[JackNine]

Kir, you're correct in that most systems will sound different when A/B'd. My response was more toward the folks saying they might not be able to tell the difference with THX components in the mix versus non-THX components, which in my experience I'd have to definitely disagree with.


And as to the second part of your response, there are many different types of THX certs, all having to do with different types of products (pro audio: THX PM3, home theater: THX Ultra2 & Select, multimedia: THX). The standards are different for different types of equipment -- no one's saying THX computer speakers should be used in your "cinema".


Michael hit the nail on the head with his little car speaker analogy. There are definitely more than a few manufacturers out there fudging numbers to make their product look delicious on paper, when in reality the specs are quite off. With a THX cert you can guarantee those specs to be true.


The bottom line is that for consumer home theater, your ears will be the ultimate judge on what you do or do not buy.