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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone know if there are any DVD/CD players that can play multichannel SACD and do time alignment? Unless your PrePro can digitize 5.1 inputs (e.g., Lex MC-12 and AVM20), you are dependent on the player or external devices to do bass management, time alignment, and speaker level calibration.


I happen to be looking at universal players, like the Denon 2900 and Yamaha S2300, and, if I am reading the user manuals correctly, they provide all 3 of these functions for DVD-A, but only 2 of them for SACD- they do not do SACD time alignment.


Thanks

Bruce
 

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Bruce,


Maybe the Sony DVP-NS999 would have time alignment and bass management, but that's just a guess on my part.


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BruceOmega:

This does not exactly answer your question - sorry - but it may be of some use others who look at this thread.


David Ranada (who I believe was the first to systematically point out bass management problems) has a two-page article in the May issue of Sound & Vision (pp. 36-37) that describes what effective bass management would entail. I found the article a nice summary, bringing together many issues I have encountered in my search for effective bass management.


For me bass management is a must because I have limited space in my media room and I am intent on achieving effective hi-res audio playback. I have to admit that I am not looking at the high-end players because, frankly, I can't afford them. Besides, my wife wouldn't let me spend that much on a single audio component :D In the below $1.5K market, I have found no single machine that does effective bass management for both SACD and DVD-A.


It seems to me that equipment manufacturers could address all of Ranada's criteria with a decent chipset and good transport,etc. for under $1.5K (I may be dreaming) but not yet.
 

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I don't know of any SACD players that provide time alignment, period.


I'm not aware of any DVD-Audio players that provide time alignment for the DVD-A signal. My Kenwood DV-5900M has time alignment, but the manual makes clear that this is limited to Dolby Digital signals.


My Sony 555ES SACD player has bass management, so I assume that's not a big deal for many SACD players.


Several DVD-A players have bass management, including my Kenwood DV-5900M. However, the bass management is limited. I think it's a one step 100hz crossover, or full range. No other choices.


To John Kotches, who I now know will read this, I just added the Outlaw ICBM to my system. As you've previously written, it's a nice piece. However, I can add this to your observation: After living with the limited bass management of the Sony SACD player, and the limited bass management of the Kenwood DVD-A player, it's not an even trade--the ICBM does a pronounced, much better job of bass managment than either player.


When I added the ICBM, I didn't "add" bass management, because I already had it. What I added was a significantly improved bass management, which continues to marvel me at the effects it shows in areas other than bass--in other words, in the contrasting sounds that get highlighted because they're in the presence of a more controlled bass signal.


Nick :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Per John Kotches' post, I looked up the Sony DVP-NS999ES on the Sony web site, and it is the only Sony player that explicitly states it does time alignment. Many others say something like digital managment system, but only the 999ES says time alignment.


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Bruce
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Per John Kotches' post, I looked up the Sony web site and it explicitly says the DVP-NS999ES does time alignment. Many others say something like digital managment system, but only the 999ES says time alignment.


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Bruce
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Per John Kotches' post, I looked up the Sony web site and it explicitly says the DVP-NS999ES does time alignment. The Sony web says something like digital managment system for other models, but only the 999ES says time alignment.


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Bruce
 

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I was most surprised to see Time Alignment being mentioned for this player. I am tempted to off my 555ES 5 disc changer, and snag one of these. Going from one ES to another would not suggest a decline in quality . . .


I would still use the ICBM, however. Then, finally, one day, once we've assembled all our Frankenstein-like monster approaches to high resolution audio, someone just may say: "one machine. one cable. All digital. No worries."


Nick :cool:
 

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Quote:
I'm not aware of any DVD-Audio players that provide time alignment for the DVD-A signal.
The Pioneer 45A is said to do TA for DVD-A, but not SACD. I have the 45A, but do not know of any test software that could prove or disprove that.


Its BM is a mess, however. I use an ICBM for that. Worth every penney.


BGL
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Nick Satullo
I was most surprised to see Time Alignment being mentioned for this player. I am tempted to off my 555ES 5 disc changer, and snag one of these. Going from one ES to another would not suggest a decline in quality . . .


I would still use the ICBM, however. Then, finally, one day, once we've assembled all our Frankenstein-like monster approaches to high resolution audio, someone just may say: "one machine. one cable. All digital. No worries."


Nick :cool:
Be careful here. BM must be done beforeTA. If you did TA in the player, then route that to the ICBM you will get some weird phase anomalies.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Craig F
Be careful here. BM must be done beforeTA. If you did TA in the player, then route that to the ICBM you will get some weird phase anomalies.
Now that you mention it, I had been told that before. I'm sure you're right.


The ICBM manual is confusing on this point. First it says set the surround delays to 0ms (which I assume is no delay); then it says set the delays as you normally would; then it says the delays are usually not active for multi-channel SACD or DVD-A (which is really the only time you use the ICBM).


Roger Dressler of Dolby just posted recently on the SMR Lexicon Forum that, due to the way most multichannel music is mixed, the surround delay is less important than the delay settings between Center and L & R.


Nick :cool:
 

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I'm not sure who originally said that he/she didn't know of any DVD-A players offering time alignment.


Here are a few of them:

Pioneer DV-47ai (Digital in to the receiver)

Denon DV-3800

Denon DV-9000 (Analog out from player or Digital in to the receiver)

Meridian 598 (Digital in to a Meridian processor)

Meridian 800 (Digital in to a Meridian processor)


There aren't many, but they are out there.


Regards,
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by John Kotches
I'm not sure who originally said that he/she didn't know of any DVD-A players offering time alignment.


Here are a few of them:

Pioneer DV-47ai (Digital in to the receiver)

Denon DV-3800

Denon DV-9000 (Analog out from player or Digital in to the receiver)

Meridian 598 (Digital in to a Meridian processor)

Meridian 800 (Digital in to a Meridian processor)


There aren't many, but they are out there.


Regards,
I should have been clear that I was leaving out anything with a proprietary link. Although, if the Denon does time alignment in DVD-Audio from its analog outputs as well, then that would be one at least.


Nick :cool:
 

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Nick,


Both the Denon DV-3800 and DV-9000 do so from their analog outputs.


EADs players might have time alignment capability, but I haven't tested their DVD-A players yet.


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Quote:
I'm not sure who originally said that he/she didn't know of any DVD-A players offering time alignment.


Here are a few of them:

Pioneer DV-47ai (Digital in to the receiver)

Denon DV-3800

Denon DV-9000 (Analog out from player or Digital in to the receiver)

Meridian 598 (Digital in to a Meridian processor)

Meridian 800 (Digital in to a Meridian processor)


There aren't many, but they are out there.
To that list I believe you can add the Samsung HD-1000 and upcoming 931.
 

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Ian,


I only posted what I've worked with :)


I haven't played with the HD-1000 and or the DV-931.


Regards,
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by newmembertoday
The Sony 999ES is the only player from ANY mfgr that does time alignment for SACD. The Philips 963SA doesn't.
Hmmm... What exactly do you mean by "time alignment" then?? Isn't it just a delay setting for the various channels?? I'm quite certain that a few owners of the 963sa have said it has this over in that gigantic long 963sa thread I mentioned above (and maybe in other threads/forums also).


But again, it does force DSD->PCM conversion (at reasonably high fidelity) for this, instead of doing it in the DSD domain. Also, it might not offer much flexibility, so maybe it's "incomplete" in some ways. Is either of these reasons why you consider it as "doesn't"?


Of course, I cannot verify the feature myself since I never took the plunge on it.


_Man_
 
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