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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Finally sold our entertainment center that had to go before wifey would let me get a plasma.


Researched the Panasonic TH-50PX60U, the Philips 50PF9631D and the Pioneer PDP-5070HD.


Love the reviews and the price of the Panasonic, but hate the silver body. Like the philips alot, but found to many bad reviews and opinions of the reliability of the set. Both here and all over the net. Also found good reviews everywhere for it, but I have the worst luck with many things. And feel weird about this purchase of the Phil. That leaves the Pioneer, haven't found anything bad about it, except that the greens don't show perfectly. But otherwise all seem to love it.


Any advise on which way to go would help. And if anyone has experience with either, that would be a bonus.


Also, this will be wall mounted, actually fireplace mounted. The tuner and all stereo and all other pieces of the system will be about 10 feet away. So any suggestions on cables or anything that will make the wiring easier, cheaper and less cluttered will be appreciated.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikey /forum/post/0


Finally sold our entertainment center that had to go before wifey would let me get a plasma.


Researched the Panasonic TH-50PX60U, the Philips 50PF9631D and the Pioneer PDP-5070HD.


Love the reviews and the price of the Panasonic, but hate the silver body.


Hate the silver...why not check one of these out??

http://www.visualapex.com/plasma/pla...nasonic_plasma
 

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You can't go wrong with ANY of those models. You'll find people who have good things to say about all of them, me the Philips, for instance.


I would make your choice based on features and other things special to your particular use. You'll find Pioneer probably a bit above the others on reliability and PQ according to most AVS'ers, Panasonic a bit above on blacks, and Philips a bit ahead on features.


It's really your choice. Ask questions and then decide. Good luck.
 

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I'll give my vote towards the Pio, although you should research for yourself to make the best decision.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the help so far. Yeah, it's only a color, but if I have to look at it everyday, I might have the "I should've" complex. Anyone have any pics of the Pioneers remote? Can't find a pic, and the Phils remote is not desireable
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikey /forum/post/0


Thanks for the help so far. Yeah, it's only a color, but if I have to look at it everyday, I might have the "I should've" complex. Anyone have any pics of the Pioneers remote? Can't find a pic, and the Phils remote is not desireable

Don't buy a TV based on the remote...I disliked my remote the first few weeks, now I love it.



Go by the TV !!!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcemanDallas /forum/post/0


The Philips brand is poorly designed, poor build quality and poor customer service. I know because I own one. The entry cost is tempting but you'll regret it in the long run.

Since you owned an outdated Philips model, it's a bit presumptous of you to speak about the newer models.


Instead of bashing Philips models that you never owned, why don't you talk up the Pioneer model you do have? That would probably be more useful.
 

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With the new lower online prices on the Pioneer 5070/1HD, there is no reason not to spend a little more and get a much better set than the panasonic IMO. The Phillips will probably still be a good amount cheaper, and they do have nice looking pictures in the stores, but I went with the Pioneer 5071HD and have not regretted it a second. The remote should not be a deciding factor, as most will buy a universal programmable remote to run multiple components at once.


Dustin
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikey
Thanks for the help so far. Yeah, it's only a color, but if I have to look at it everyday, I might have the "I should've" complex. Anyone have any pics of the Pioneers remote? Can't find a pic, and the Phils remote is not desireable
Attached is the product brochure. You can go to Pio's website and download the manual too - there should be a pic of the remote there.


Guys - Not everyone uses a universal remote. I have one myself, but not everyone needs/wants to buy one. Although it shouldn't be a deciding factor, if I was shopping I'd check out everything I could - including the remote. The Pio does have a decent remote.

 

PDP-5070.pdf 292.455078125k . file
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipsPhanatic /forum/post/0


Since you owned an outdated Philips model, it's a bit presumptous of you to speak about the newer models.


Instead of bashing Philips models that you never owned, why don't you talk up the Pioneer model you do have? That would probably be more useful.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me! The model I bought was current at the time I purchased it, about thirteen months ago, and I still own it. Although the black screen of death problem seems to be resolved, other problems seem to still be occuring in the current models. And I'm sure that the customer service issues have not been magically corrected. I now own a Pioneer and have not had one problem with it, but I don't feel the urge to jump in every Pioneer thread and sing its praises, it does what it is supposed to do, which is function when I turn it on. Never had to load firmware to fix something that should have worked from the factory, and if you're not tech saavy, you can screw yourself up trying to load tht firmware.


I can't figure out what your agenda is, you either are a Philips employee or have invested heavily in their stock. It's one thing to be helpful to those that are experiencing problems, which you certainly are. It's another issue entirely to mislead others that are contemplating purchasing a Philips product into believing the problems are minor and can be worked around. Should you have to work around multiple issues with basic television functionality? Personally, I don't think so. You can point to issues from many manufacturers but they seem to be isolated. There will always be the occasional lemon. But almost everyone from across the Philips product line seem to have run across the same or similar malfunctions, which to me indicate poor design or manufacturing processes. Load one fix and create two more problems. And their customer support is non-existent.


The pricing on Philips products is attractive...I can't deny that. I just think that potential customers need to be aware that they potentially will spend a whole lot more in time and effort than what was saved on the initial purchase.


IMD
 

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ikey- Have you checked the px600u? looks alittle better than the 60u, if that is a problem. I have been satisfied w/ my 42px600u so far (had it for 3 weeks now).


I would not rule out Phillips, though. At my place of work, we bought a 50" phillips plasma about 3 months ago. I have to say we have not had any of the stated issues. The PQ (IMO) is comparible to my 600u. Also, as Phillipsphanatic says, the phillips has many nice features. My favorite being the Automatic aspect ratio adjustment. When set to automatic you do not need to worry about changing the aspect ratio manually. It will stetch 4:3 content slightly to eliminate black bars and 16:9 content will be displayed correctly. It is quite annoying (w/ my Panasonic) to have to keep pressing the aspect ratio button when surfing though the channels or going back and forth from 4:3 to 16:9 or vice versa, to eliminate problamatic black bars.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcemanDallas /forum/post/0


Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me! The model I bought was current at the time I purchased it, about thirteen months ago, and I still own it.

The 9630's were the state-of-the-art as of June 2005, about 20 months ago.


Quote:
Although the black screen of death problem seems to be resolved, other problems seem to still be occuring in the current models. And I'm sure that the customer service issues have not been magically corrected.

I don't disagree with your firmware frustration. And I second you on the customer service issues -- I let Philips know myself on that score.


Quote:
I now own a Pioneer and have not had one problem with it, but I don't feel the urge to jump in every Pioneer thread and sing its praises, it does what it is supposed to do, which is function when I turn it on. Never had to load firmware to fix something that should have worked from the factory, and if you're not tech savvy, you can screw yourself up trying to load tht firmware.

These TV's are like PC's and monitors: would you say that Windows doesn't work properly because of all the updates? I think I've updated or added software dozens of time in the years I've owned a Windows-equipped PC.


I don't mind upgrades if they're helpful and work flawlessly. In fact, I would like to have technical engineers hear our complaints and add NEW features, as opposed to fixing minutae detailed things that marginally improve PQ or other stuff.

Quote:
I can't figure out what your agenda is, you either are a Philips employee or have invested heavily in their stock. It's one thing to be helpful to those that are experiencing problems, which you certainly are.

My agenda is very clear and I'll state it here: to help others in choosing plasma TV's and to objectively state the case for Philips. Why? Because I believe in the brand and the company.



I have owned Philips stock in the past but do not directly own it as of today.


I am not now nor have I ever been a Philips employee (a family member was employed at Sharp several years ago).


If you go over my posts, you'll see lots of praise and congratulations for owners of Panasonics (tons of posts), Pioneer (a bunch of posts) and even Samsung and LG (a few posts). Do I have an agenda with those posts????


Quote:
It's another issue entirely to mislead others that are contemplating purchasing a Philips product into believing the problems are minor and can be worked around. Should you have to work around multiple issues with basic television functionality? Personally, I don't think so. You can point to issues from many manufacturers but they seem to be isolated. There will always be the occasional lemon. But almost everyone from across the Philips product line seem to have run across the same or similar malfunctions, which to me indicate poor design or manufacturing processes. Load one fix and create two more problems. And their customer support is non-existent.

Mislead?
Who's misleading?
I'm stating basic facts that can be verified by anybody who reads the posts. Where people have stated they are looking at various Philips models, I have generally stated that the reliability and quality on the 9630/31 models has been dramatically improved over the earlier (7000) series. In other words, I'm basically admitting -- in fact, I've written it -- that earlier models were not up to snuff.



As for TV functionality and upgrades, I'm glad Philips fixes a problem. Would I want the TV's to work perfectly from Day 1? OF COURSE !! But unless the problem is a fatal problem, I understand that these things happen. As I said, it's like a PC Windows update -- does that mean that Microsoft should never send out software that has an update or an upgrade or a bug fixed down the line? Flat-panel and fixed-pixel displays are incredibly complex technologies. They have been commercially available for about 10 years now. Do you know the failure rate of CRT televisions when they had been commercially available for 10 years? Ever wonder why so many 'TV REPAIR SHOPS' sprouted up in the 1950's and 1960's ? Because the failure rate was close to 10% back then. Today, the failure rate for CRT's is close to 0.2% or lower, from what I read. I wager that the failure rate for flat-panels and other HDTV's is close to 10% (with fatal or serious problems out-of-the-box).


I agree with you on Philips sometimes-sloppy fixes to firmware -- they fix one problem and a few new glitches (often less serious) appear. Having said that, does that now make me a Philips basher? No, I think it makes me objective. See?


And I agree with you on their lousy customer support. Meet PhilipsPhanatic....Philips-basher !!!



Not !!


Of course, anyone looking at the first 2 pages of the AVS Plasma section can read all the problems on other makes and models and realize in 30 seconds, without believeing either you or me, that every company has issues. Some are worse than others. And their customer supports UNIVERSALLY suck (if someone wants to disagree with me and state that a company has multiple-customer service problems resolved perfectly, attentively, and quickly, please post it. I'm not aware of any).

Quote:
The pricing on Philips products is attractive...I can't deny that. I just think that potential customers need to be aware that they potentially will spend a whole lot more in time and effort than what was saved on the initial purchase.

IMD

And I think you're wrong in that assertion. I think if I or anyone else said that Philips TV's has as good as blacks as Pansonics, or were as good in PQ as Pioneer, I think you'd be right to say that was a minority opinion. It clearly is. But even if the assertion is true with regard to problems with Philips -- and I think that if you go by latest models (the 9630 and 9631) their quality has closed the gap -- I don't think it's like buying a 3rd tier plasma like a Dell or an HP.


I think chasing that 'nth' level of PQ via Pioneer or that 'nth' level of blackness via Panasonic isn't worth it. Others on AVS disagree with me -- I respect their choice. It doesn't make them right or wrong or me right or wrong. This is known as consumer choice. And I think that the differences in quality control and even customer service are so miniscule between most of the 1st and 2nd tier plasma companies that it isn't fair to say one is worthy of purchase and the others aren't.


Are the others better than Philips? Perhaps.


If I had a Pioneer and a Philips and could only get a 3-year warranty on one of them, which one would I get it on? Probably the Philips, I freely admit.


But these discrepancies are MINOR and not major. We're not talking Ford Pinto-quality here, even with the earlier models which I agree had more problematic troubles.


I think that just as Philips has appropriately created a visible stir with their 63" 1080p plasma model coming out in a few months, they have also QUIETLY created a less-visible stir in the last 18-24 months by dramatically improving the PQ and reliability. Most posters here on AVS, most of the major magazines (HT Magazine, Sound & Vision, etc) agree, too.


That doesn't mean I'm saying that Philips is as good as Panasonic or Pioneer. They may not be on an overall scorecard. But that doesn't mean they're not worthy of purchase.


And Iceman, if there weren't plenty of Panasonic defenders here, I'd do the SAME thing in posts by defending Panasonic if someone unfairly dissed them, IMO. As it is, Pioneer and Panasonic each have plenty of defenders here -- and they should (Panny was my #2 choice, BTW).


That's my agenda with regards to Philips -- to help people get objective information and make their decision. They don't have to agree with me or even follow my choice, I just want to give them both sides and have them make an INFORMED decision. It's the same reason why I send out the 'Philips Tips Sheet' -- not because I want anybody to do every damn suggestion or tip on the pages, I just want them to have the information as a resource. I don't get any money from it, I don't benefit from it, it costs me time and money to put it together. My agenda was just to help people. My reward was a few e-mail and PM messages of 'Thanks, it was a big help.'



If I get the same feedback from people on my Philips and non-Philips posts here, that's all I want. Regardless of which TV they purchase.
 

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I have no real interest in what brand someone buys, I myself own an 8th gen Panny. I just find it odd how everyone seems to generalize Philips as have poor blacks and a third tier PQ when measured performance shows the exact opposite. The Philips 42PF9630A has a black level of only 0.015 ft-L, While the Panasonic TH42PX60U shows 0.012 ft-L. The other brands are more then DOUBLE the Philips. The Philips also has very good CR.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=418113
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshtee /forum/post/0


Ikey- So have you decided on a new TV? just intrested in what you figue out.

I have decided, (I think!), on the Pioneer PDP-5060HD. My son, 10 yrs old, and brother, 27, both love the ambilight though. But my wife doesn't think we'll use that feature much.


Did find both of these at very low prices on the net. And almost made a mistake by going with, not the lowest, but a mid priced dealer. Then found that if they are not Pioneer "authorized" dealers, the warranty will not be honored. Big deal for me.


Found 2 places, won't post names unless it's allowed, but email for the names if your interested. Reviews of both are very good, and prices are great. 1 advantage one has, is that I have up to 8 months to buy an extended warranty of 4 extra years (5 total p & l). And it's under $400.00.


I'm gonna make a buy before my wife get's home around 5. So I'll post the verdict and will keep everyone informed of the shipping, setup, service and so on.


One thing to those getting ready to purchase. Do not jump at the low ball e-sites. You will not be happy, and always pay with a credit card for extra protection.


thanx for everyones help, keep the advice coming


oh yeah, is this mount a good buy? the price on these things vary greatly and just dont want to overspend when I don't have to.

It's on amazon for around $70.00


/gp/offer-listing/B000ID7CNC/ref=dp_olp_2/104-0000687-1930371[/url]
 

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ikey said:
I have decided, (I think!), on the Pioneer PDP-5060HD. My son, 10 yrs old, and brother, 27, both love the ambilight though. But my wife doesn't think we'll use that feature much.



Do you mean the 5070? I don't know if any authorized dealers still have the 5060 available, just want to make sure you are taken care of.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikey /forum/post/0


both love the ambilight though. But my wife doesn't think we'll use that feature much.

You can rig your own "ambilight" for any plasma. First buy Smart Power Strip, and plug the plasma into the master socket. Then buy a 6500 light (ropelight from anybody, or fancy fluorescent light from Audioquest) and plug it into the slave socket. Then put the light in back of the plasma. Then whenever you turn on the plasma, the backlight comes on.
 
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