[djhack1639]

I've read a lot of threads, and done a lot of research, and listened to a few subs at local dealers. I'm trying to narrow down my choices, then look for the best deal.


I'm upgrading my office setup from Klipsch Promedia 2.1. I have acquired an older Luxman 2ch receiver (R-113, 35wpc) with a pair of H/K TEN bookshelf speakers. The TENs are nice and much better than the Promedia satelites, but will likely be replaced with another more modern bookshelf (PSB, Paradigm, Wharfedale, Monitor - but that's a separate discussion). Because the receiver does not have a crossover I'd like a sub with speaker level in/out and a good internal crossover to facilitate better sound.

My info:
Budget: $500 naturally less $ would be good
Sub-size/Appearance: no preference
Room Size: 10w X 14l X 9h = 1260cuft
Use: 90% music 10% games.
Listening habits: 6+ hours a day at low to moderate volume. A wide variety of music, some very bass heavy - electronic, rock, vocal-acoustic, some jazz, some classical. I do like a slightly bass-heavy sound, but I'm trying to train myself away from that.
When: soonish, but no hurry

Subs I'm considering:

Golden Ear Force Field 3 (FF3)

Sunfire SDS 8/10

Lava LSP10

Pinnacle Baby Boomer

HSU VTF-1


All of these are well reviewed and have adequate power. I have heard the Sunfire SDS10 and FF3 in showrooms recently. The FF3 is in the lead at the moment - it's very musical and controlled, and it plays very low. It is also the most expensive. I have not heard any of the others in person. I am concerned that the Lava might not be musical enough fro my needs.


Anyone have any thoughts? Are there lower priced options I'm missing?


TIA,

Geoff

 

[jenkzy56]

Have not personally heard this one, but it seems to get love from lots of folks

http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub12.shtm

 

[djhack1639]

Thanks, but the Emotiva doesn't have speaker level in/out.

 

[erik9899]

I'm a particular fan of the BIC America Series of subs. They are a great value. The F12 is very highly regarded, but may be a little too much for your room. The V1220 may be what you need and both are considerably less than any of the other subs you're considering. Check them out and see what you think.

 

[djhack1639]

The BIC subs do look like a good value. I guess I'm having a hard time seeing that they would be manufactured to and play the same standard as the other subs, or the speakers I'm looking at.

 

[shadyJ]

From the ones you listed I would go with the Hsu VTF1. Another I would recommend which looks to have even more output and also speaker level ins would be the Elemental Designs A3-250 . The Epik Legend also has speaker level inputs and would be a great sub as well.

 

[clownaphobia]

Not to offend..but if you're looking for a very musical sub then stay away from the Bics that were mentioned. Theyre good for HT, but lack the musicality that some others will excel at. The Hsu Vtf-1 is great sub as is the HSU Stf-2 (which will be chaper than the Vtf-1 and will be quite enough for your room). The Emo's are very good with music in this price range also!

 

[djhack1639]

Those ED subs do look like good deals, and people seem to like them very well.


I was hoping to narrow down the list, not expand it!

 

[rick240]



Quote:
Originally Posted by djhack1639 /forum/post/20770599


Because the receiver does not have a crossover I'd like a sub with speaker level in/out and a good internal crossover to facilitate better sound.

Others can correct me if I am wrong but very few subs have high-pass on their outputs; almost all, although they call them crossovers, have only got a low pass filter.

 

[djhack1639]



Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 /forum/post/20774386


Others can correct me if I am wrong but very few subs have high-pass on their outputs; almost all, although they call them crossovers, have only got a low pass filter.

I do believe you are correct. I have reviewed specs, and made a spreadsheet to help me see the data.

Of the subs I have been considering only the Pinnacle BB and Golden Ear FF3 specify a high-pass filter on the speaker outs.


Given that the FF3 is overkill for my space, and costs a lot more, I think the Pinnacle Baby Boomer has the win at the moment.

 

[djhack1639]

Anyone else care to chime in with any options?

Should I give up on using the sub as a true crossover?

 

[rick240]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I can see online that Luxman R-113 has external loopback between the pre-amp and amp section.


If that's true, then that is where you want to put your crossover. Even something as cheap as this from Harrison Labs .

 

[djhack1639]

Correct, the R-113 does have a processor loop.


I have a G-100 EQ en-route that I was planning on plugging into this signal processor loop. At first glance it would be easy enough to add a crossover into this chain. I think I see a problem when examining the signal path:

https://flic.kr/p/6007652386 ​

https://flic.kr/p/6007652386 ​

by djhack1639 , on Flickr


The signal processor loop is before the pre-amp output. Therefore if I put in a high-pass filter the sub won't have anything meaningful to work with. I think the logical conclusion is that the receiver is meant to drive full-range speakers all the time.

 

[rick240]

Ah, those are for a signal processor. I was hoping that was pre-out and mains-in.

 

[djhack1639]

What about a sub with a filtered / crossed over line level out? I got the inspiration from looking at SVS.


The wiring would look like:

R-113 processor loop out -> G-100 EQ -> Sub -> R-113 processor loop in -> speakers attached to the R-113 internal amp.


Found a few options:


SVS PC12-NSD ($699) SVS is good stuff, but a little pricey for me right now.


Polk DSW Pro 440wi ($399) Has a line level out, but I can't get a clear understanding if it's filtered or not. From crutchfield: "The line outputs allow you to send a filtered signal to a power amplifier to drive bookshelf speakers." However Crutchfield's specs don't list a high pass freq, and there is no mention of a filter in the owner's manual.


Velodyne DLS-3750R ($500, $349 refurb) Looks like a decent option, but I'm not sure about the musicality of it... and it's only slightly less expensive than the Baby Boomer.

 

[djhack1639]

Also found a Velodyne DEQ-10R for $400 new.


The sub-integrated room EQ is interesting - are they effective or more gimmiky?

 

[kesando]

How about the Rythmik FV12?

http://rythmikaudio.com/FV12.html

 

[djhack1639]



Quote:
Originally Posted by kesando /forum/post/0


How about the Rythmik FV12?

http://rythmikaudio.com/FV12.html

Looks like the amp with the nice crossover/eq is over 800 shipped. WAY over my budget.

 

[rick240]



Quote:
Originally Posted by djhack1639 /forum/post/20780928


Also found a Velodyne DEQ-10R for $400 new.


The sub-integrated room EQ is interesting - are they effective or more gimmiky?

This could work, but the high-pass is 120Hz so the sub will be locatable for 80-120Hz.


You can't go out in the receiver with the processor in/out because that is before volume control.

 

[djhack1639]

Two very good points.


I find it off that Velodyne would put a 120Hz fixed high-pass in a higher model (DEQ-R series) and a swichable 80/120 in a lower model (DLS-R series).