[BrianMc]

I am upgrading a 10 year old system (53" Elite RPTV to 60-65" Plasma, DVD to Blu-ray) and I was also planning to replace my AVR-4800, probably with an AVR-4310. The 4800 has been an excellent receiver for us and is working just fine. The primary reason for the upgrade would be to get the HDMI connections but also to catch up on a decade's worth technology improvements, particularly with regard to video processing. But after reading thru the threads, I am starting to think that I might want to hold on to the 4800 for a while longer. I've noticed a few references to Denon receiver's having "HDMI handshake issues" and comments that the amplifier sections of the newer models (at least the one's I can afford), and maybe SQ in general, are inferior to the 4800. The 4800 seems to get consistently high praise as one of Denon's best efforts, but some of those posts are fairly old and may not be as true as they once were.


The Blu-ray players that I am considering all have 7.1 channel analog outputs. Would I be better off using those and the optical connection on my Dish DVR into the AVR-4800, or does anyone think that I would notice meaningful improvements by upgrading to the AVR-4310 (or some other model in that price range)?


Thanks,


Brian

 

[cyphrex]

The main reason to upgrade to the latest AVR would be for the automatic room correction features in my opinion. It makes a difference in the SQ and makes life easier without the need of using an SPL meter and manual adjustments though others may disagree and prefer the nitpick method and I would not argue with that. The Audyssey has made big difference to me otherwise. I decided for the 4310 and so far aside from the scary firmware update, it has worked very well. It sounds good and seems to pack plenty enough punch for its weight while still running cool. I had a Yamaha that got somewhat toasty. I do not experience any HDMI handshake issues, especially with my xbox 360 that did not get along well with my previous Yamaha (of course one of the first models to come to market with HDMI inputs back in 2005). For me, I needed a receiver that has enough HDMI inputs since I have a lot of HDMI sources. If you are still looking at one HDMI source at least, you can get away with using the current 4800 with a 7.1 multichannel output BD player such as the OPPO BD-83 (the one I am considering in the near future) and still get the latest DTS master HD and Dolby True HD sound that way. Personally, I would not let this talk about handshake issues or wimpy amps scare you from an upgrade. I was skeptical myself going from a heavyweight Yamaha to a 35 lb Denon, but so far the SQ is identical in the least if not actually better.

 

[BrianMc]

Thanks for the feedback, cyphrex. The Oppo BD83 was one of the Blu-ray players I was considering and after posting, I read a review that said the BD-83's SQ was better with the HDMI connection than the analog outputs, which I found a little surprising. May be another point in the upgrade column.

 

[GqMagic]

From what I've read your 4800 may be sonically superior to the 43** models (make sure)


I'm using a Marantz SR8500 with analogs to a Pioneer 51fd, with the hdmi going to my Pioneer Kuro 151. I run my dish dvr to the 8500 with optical. Also going to connect an Apple TV to the Marantz with an optical and Apple to Pioneer with component cables.


I have an SR8000 also and will not be replacing it as it has HDAM modules and sounds to sweet to even think about replacing. ( maybe the same for your 4800)


Until I need to connect more devices than I'm able to now, I won't be 'upgrading'.


Some of these posted 'upgrades' for another 'switch' aren't 'upgrades' at all. imo.

 

[danielo]



Quote:
Originally Posted by GqMagic /forum/post/16971079


From what I've read your 4800 may be sonically superior to the 43** models (make sure)

Ive had the 5800 and 5803 in the past and would replace them in a hardbeat with a 43xx or more likely a 48xx. The only part that might be worse is the amp part but that is offset easy with audyssey for the end result.


If the amps bother you, sell the 4800 and use the money to add a emotive or other cheap multichannel amp.


As a pre/pro the quality of the new models is much higher and the feature set

is not even on the same planet.


Full discloser i use a denon avp/poa.


Daniel.

 

[hdtv47lg70]

if you have get the oppo for a blue ray AND if it has multi channel outputs and the 4800 has mult channel inputs then you can get the full brandnew lossless audio via those connections because the oppo you mentioned already decodes the dts hd ma and true hd signals...


i honestly dont think you will be happy going from a powerhouse amp to a newer model..


case in point, i had a denon 1910 and a pioneer vsx-519 and they both were weak in my opinion. i currently bought a yamaha rx-v995 and it far out performs either of the newer receivers. i had to spilt my audio and video connections as opposed to running them both via hdmi but after you get the extra wires hooked up you will never look back... i guarantee it.. provided both of them have the inputs/outputs that i mentioned AND that the oppo can decode those codecs, which i am sure it can.

 

[hdtv47lg70]



Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMc /forum/post/16970319


Thanks for the feedback, cyphrex. The Oppo BD83 was one of the Blu-ray players I was considering and after posting, I read a review that said the BD-83's SQ was better with the HDMI connection than the analog outputs, which I found a little surprising. May be another point in the upgrade column.

i really doubt that is the truth. if the analog outputs are the ones where there is one channel per connection (8 including subwoofer) then it is bs that the hdmi is going to sound better.. it wont. people that paid alot for those receivers wish it sounded better but it doesnt...

the oppo will pass it uncompressed and decoded via pcm through each channel/connection. there is no difference. remember the cool digital signal at some point has to be converted to analog for the speaker themselves anyway.

 

[hdtv47lg70]



Quote:
Originally Posted by GqMagic /forum/post/16971079


From what I've read your 4800 may be sonically superior to the 43** models (make sure)


I'm using a Marantz SR8500 with analogs to a Pioneer 51fd, with the hdmi going to my Pioneer Kuro 151. I run my dish dvr to the 8500 with optical. Also going to connect an Apple TV to the Marantz with an optical and Apple to Pioneer with component cables.


I have an SR8000 also and will not be replacing it as it has HDAM modules and sounds to sweet to even think about replacing. ( maybe the same for your 4800)


Until I need to connect more devices than I'm able to now, I won't be 'upgrading'.


Some of these posted 'upgrades' for another 'switch' aren't 'upgrades' at all. imo.

agreed. the only reason i would consider a full audio/video hdmi receiver is if i just wanted the ease of wiring. with that said.. i am still saving to buy a 3808ci... i am going to give denon another chance..

but i will keep this monster yamaha v995 for a killer two channel seperate system for cd's, and tapes.. lol... my girlfriend has an awesome cassette tape collection.

 

[BrianMc]

Thanks to all for the input. I'm leaning hard toward keeping the AVR-4800. If I do that, I would use the HDMI from the Blu-ray direct to the plasma (for video signal only) to get 1080p. Is there any reason why I would not want to run the component connection from the Dish thru the receiver?

 

[ChrisWiggles]

What will you be doing mostly?


If you're going to be watching mostly movies, and that sort of thing, no question go with the new model because of Audyssey. Huge HUGE advantage there. Enormous.


You can always keep the 4800 and use the amps in it if you want, seeing as how you're unlikely to get much money for it, or at least compare to a newer model if you are curious.


Note of disclosure I use a denon 5308.

 

[hdtv47lg70]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles /forum/post/16978323


What will you be doing mostly?


If you're going to be watching mostly movies, and that sort of thing, no question go with the new model because of Audyssey. Huge HUGE advantage there. Enormous.


You can always keep the 4800 and use the amps in it if you want, seeing as how you're unlikely to get much money for it, or at least compare to a newer model if you are curious.


Note of disclosure I use a denon 5308.

slight advantage to audyssey. no more. my yamaha has no microphone calibration at all and it sounds fantastic. maybe it just has so much power you dont really need to run any calibration.. the only calibration you need is the volume button...

 

[danielo]



Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtv47lg70 /forum/post/16979420


slight advantage to audyssey. no more. my yamaha has no microphone calibration at all and it sounds fantastic. maybe it just has so much power you dont really need to run any calibration.. the only calibration you need is the volume button...

How do you come to the conclusion that Audyssey is a slight advantage ? As me and other have pointed out its not slight. The 3 audyssey parts found on newer denon's can have amazing effects on the overal sound this aint your old 'it just sets your levels and distances' system anymore.


To the original poster, several of us who have made the jump from 00/03 models told you to upgrade the reason we say that has nothing todo with the hdmi or analog problem from bluray but all todo with what a much more modern design will bring but in the end its upto you...


Daniel.

 

[hdtv47lg70]



Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMc /forum/post/16978161


Is there any reason why I would not want to run the component connection from the Dish thru the receiver?

what would be the advantage? you will need an extra set of component cables to go from the receiver to the tv.. and if you only have one source to run through it then no need for switching... so i cant think of an advantage for that

 

[c722]

U have a 4800, for 10 yrs.

Pls consider the upcoming 4810 (which is so "aptly" named

)

 

[hdtv47lg70]



Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo /forum/post/16979434


How do you come to the conclusion that Audyssey is a slight advantage ? As me and other have pointed out its not slight. The 3 audyssey parts found on newer denon's can have amazing effects on the overal sound this aint your old 'it just sets your levels and distances' system anymore.


To the original poster, several of us who have made the jump from 00/03 models told you to upgrade the reason we say that has nothing todo with the hdmi or analog problem from bluray but all todo with what a much more modern design will bring but in the end its upto you...


Daniel.

i dont understand what it brings.. the receivers i had both seem underpowered compared to this older yamaha v995. i can actually hear closer to full range on my speakers now whereas before all my speakers sounded like satellites. i can also hear much more seperation in the channels as opposed to the two 'newer' models that i had. so other than the ability to pass hdmi video i dont see the benefit of the newer ones..

 

[danielo]



Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtv47lg70 /forum/post/16979462


i dont understand what it brings.. the receivers i had both seem underpowered compared to this older yamaha v995. i can actually hear closer to full range on my speakers now whereas before all my speakers sounded like satellites. i can also hear much more seperation in the channels as opposed to the two 'newer' models that i had. so other than the ability to pass hdmi video i dont see the benefit of the newer ones..

He didn't ask about a 1910. he has a 4800 the 1-down topmodel from 10 years ago ( owned the top model 5800 ). The 4800 is a powerhouse thats about the only thing we agree on. But i am not sure the 4310 or 4810 will be that much worse even in this area !.


In all other areas including room eq and video processing it totally kills the 4800 or other receivers of 2gen back. As Chris already noted for HT use its not even close and if he is willing to spend the money he should.


Now we have no idea why the 1910 (way lower model than he asked for) was underpowered for you. We also have no idea about his speakers and/or if they are hard to drive. But as several already noted adding a external amp is the easy part infact adding a good 2 channel amp is easer than adding/finding a good bluray player these days

.


Also i can assure you that Chris and my denon don't have any problem providing the same amount of amps your 995 does the question is are they needed

.


Daniel.

 

[hdtv47lg70]



Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo /forum/post/16979548


He didn't ask about a 1910. he has a 4800 the 1-down topmodel from 10 years ago ( owned the top model 5800 ). The 4800 is a powerhouse thats about the only thing we agree on. But i am not sure the 4310 or 4810 will be that much worse even in this area !.


In all other areas including room eq and video processing it totally kills the 4800 or other receivers of 2gen back. As Chris already noted for HT use its not even close and if he is willing to spend the money he should.


Now we have no idea why the 1910 (way lower model than he asked for) was underpowered for you. We also have no idea about his speakers and/or if they are hard to drive. But as several already noted adding a external amp is the easy part infact adding a good 2 channel amp is easer than adding/finding a good bluray player these days

.


Also i can assure you that Chris and my denon don't have any problem providing the same amount of amps your 995 does the question is are they needed

.


Daniel.

well i have heard three receivers in the last month and the easiest one to set up also sounded the best and is the oldest.. you guys act like there is something magical about running audyssey or the equivalent.


we do agree on the video processing, but is it really that big of a deal??


when you cant really use upscaling (picture looks like poo poo) with sd content.


if the receiver doesnt support 24fps or 120hz specs, which i am quite sure the early hdmi receivers did not considering all the pq issues. however at least denon states which of their models support 24fps, 30 fps, and 60fps.. if they state all those are supported and another manufacturer doesnt specifically state it, then it tells me the other manufacturer probably doesnt support those specifications but they just forget to tell you.. that is bollocks!


i am quite sure any tv will have better video processing than any given receiver.. i solved my video issues by unplugging the hdmi video from the receivers and plugging it straight into the tv. . it works like a charm (although i do have extra cables now) i dont need a microphone and some software to tell me what sounds good.. i knew within seconds of hooking up the old yamaha that it sounded much better than any of the two newer ones i had.. sure they were bottom of the pile of each receiver ..


which is why i want to try the 3808 on for size .. one last chance at video hdmi through the receiver..


with regards to his money i dont care how much he has nor the way he spends it..he can buy 20 brand new top of the line models and if he likes them that is great.. i am just trying to offer some advice from a person that has tried 3 avr's in one month and what sounded best to me..

 

[hdtv47lg70]



Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo /forum/post/16979548


Also i can assure you that Chris and my denon don't have any problem providing the same amount of amps your 995 does the question is are they needed

.


Daniel.

i am not sure if i understand you correctly on this comment. i wasnt trying to insult denons at all.. i am hoping i like the 3808 better than this one and the 1910 because i like the idea of running everything through hdmi through the receiver and switching the inputs on the receiver as opposed to messing around with changing the inputs on the tv...

 

[MaxMax]

I've just replaced my AVR-4800 with a Pioneer SC-07. Originally I had the same question as you -- it's it worth to make a move since sonically I'm somewhat happy with the 4800. Here is what I've found:


- 2 channels performance. Originally, I was using the 4800 to drive a pair of JBL 4312A. Then after I changed to a pair of Focal 826V, I found the 4800 sound a bit "harsh". Now with the SC-07, my Focal sounds much more "rounded" and "warm". I guess b/c of the new DAC??


- in room correction / calibration. When I was using the 4800, I didn't calibrate the surround sound professionally. I was just using my own ears.... With the new sound calibration comes with the new receiver, I feel that the surround sounds (DD, DTS and all the HD sound format) performs much better. But you may argue that if I professionally calibrate the 4800, I would get a better result???


- I'm using one of those media player (popcorn hour / HDX-1000) as my video source. With the new receiver, I can enjoy the new codec (DTS-HDMA and DDTureHD)... Let me tell you it's just like night and day btw DD and DDTrueHD...


I'm just inputing my experience....I think my upgrade is worthwhile...

 

[hdtv47lg70]



Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxMax /forum/post/16987984



- I'm using one of those media player (popcorn hour / HDX-1000) as my video source. With the new receiver, I can enjoy the new codec (DTS-HDMA and DDTureHD)... Let me tell you it's just like night and day btw DD and DDTrueHD...


I'm just inputing my experience....I think my upgrade is worthwhile...

that is interesting. sometimes i get the feeling that most people cant tell the difference in the dd vs truehd and dtshd vs dts.


i am quickly finding out that there are so many variables in all the different equipment that pointing a finger at any one explanation may not be the correct thing to do.