[bfs673]

I've been spending a lot of time reading and pondering an upgrade to my existing Epson 3020. I really like this projector for the price, but I'm disappointed in the blacks and inability to get my LCD panels well aligned. Don't get me wrong, it looks good, but it's pretty much a budget projector.


After upgrading the audio system I think it might be time. I've been waiting for 4K to gain some traction on the projector market. Although a pseudo 4k projector, the JVCs have really caught my attention. Originally I thought about the RS500 but it appears to be a minor upgrade over the RS400. Many appear to be quite happy with the RS400. I've looked at the Sony 4K offerings and the Epson Laser, but I keep going back to the JVC. I'm not a fan of DLP so the new TI chip coming out is not a factor; unless it pressures competitors pricing a bit.


My budget has taken a hit through the recent purchase of my Anthem receiver and ceiling speakers so I'm questioning whether or not the projector upgrade is worth it now, or just wait another year when my budget opens a bit and the technology advances.


I know this is a VERY subjective post, but other enthusiasts opinions may help my internal struggles


Room: 12'x16' dedicated
Full lighting control
Screen is an Elite screens 16:9 100" 1.1 gain (Not the best, but looks great to my old eyes with nothing else to compare it to)
Seating is ~9' from the screen


Thoughts?

 

[Seegs108]

While people may be happy with the RS400 (and justly so) I've had an RS500 here with an RS400 and there's no way I could settle and go back to the RS400 after seeing both images side by side. If you can afford the RS500 it's worth the extra money. The RS400 is definitely the better "bang for the buck" but as Mike and Craig over at AVScience will tell you, this year BY A LARGE MARGIN people went with the RS500 and RS600 over the RS400. The contrast performance between the RS400 an RS500 is visibly large and the extra large color gamut that the RS500 is capable of is nice if you want to take more advantage of UHD Blu-ray as the RS400 can only do slightly larger than REC709, whereas the RS500 can do P3 (99% at least). Add in the extra contrast and similar brightness and you're in for a much better UHD BD HDR WCG experience.

 

[bfs673]

A few pics of my setup for consideration

 

[stanger89]

We are rapidly approaching the time when it's probably worth waiting to see what gets announced at CEDIA.

...I'm not a fan of DLP so the new TI chip coming out is not a factor; unless it pressures competitors pricing a bit.

FWIW, (single chip) DLP is immune to one of your primary complaints with your Epson, panel alignment. If (and it's a really, really big if) the new 4K DMD allows for a lot higher contrast, the new 4K DLPs could be quite interesting.

That said, early indications are they won't be terribly price competitive, it sounds like they'll be in the RS500 price range probably, more for the LED/Laser versions, and I'd bet against them having competitive contrast.

Maybe the most interesting thing to wait on would be to see if Epson has a refresh of the LS10000. If they have something with HDR and Rec.2020, and maybe improved contrast, that could be a rather compelling option.

All that said, it's going to be really hard to beat the RS500, even if Epson has a refresh it will likely only close the performance gap and will probably still be a good bit more expensive. Sony, I personally won't even consider them until they figure out the panel degradation issue, AND the ridiculous US pricing.

 

[bfs673]

While people may be happy with the RS400 (and justly so) I've had an RS500 here with an RS400 and there's no way I could settle and go back to the RS400 after seeing both images side by side. If you can afford the RS500 it's worth the extra money. The RS400 is definitely the better "bang for the buck" but as Mike and Craig over at AVScience will tell you, this year BY A LARGE MARGIN people went with the RS500 and RS600 over the RS400. The contrast performance between the RS400 an RS500 is visibly large and the extra large color gamut that the RS500 is capable of is nice if you want to take more advantage of UHD Blu-ray as the RS400 can only do slightly larger than REC709, whereas the RS500 can do P3 (99% at least). Add in the extra contrast and similar brightness and you're in for a much better UHD BD HDR WCG experience.

I think this may very well push me to the RS500; although I'd considered the contrast benefit, I had not considered the color gamut differences.

 

[muzz]

Wondering just how much better the 500 would be over the 400 with those light walls.

 

[bfs673]

We are rapidly approaching the time when it's probably worth waiting to see what gets announced at CEDIA.

Very True!

FWIW, (single chip) DLP is immune to one of your primary complaints with your Epson, panel alignment. If (and it's a really, really big if) the new 4K DMD allows for a lot higher contrast, the new 4K DLPs could be quite interesting.

My dig against DLP is the RBE; although better than it used to be I've returned a DLP television previously because of this (Several years ago). We have DLP projectors at work and that RBE drives me nutz! I find myself "Trying" to see the RBE too often. It's a mental condition I haven't yet found a solution to; other than to avoid it

Maybe the most interesting thing to wait on would be to see if Epson has a refresh of the LS10000. If they have something with HDR and Rec.2020, and maybe improved contrast, that could be a rather compelling option.

I would love to see more laser solutions, though I don't put many hours on my PJ; perhaps 5 hours/week.

All that said, it's going to be really hard to beat the RS500, even if Epson has a refresh it will likely only close the performance gap and will probably still be a good bit more expensive. Sony, I personally won't even consider them until they figure out the panel degradation issue, AND the ridiculous US pricing.

Agreed 100%; I'm not going to drop several $K on a PJ that degrades like that.

 

[bfs673]

Wondering just how much better the 500 would be over the 400 with those light walls.

The walls are a lighter grey; though with the lights off and blackout curtains closed, the room is exceptionally dark.
Good point though!

 

[muzz]

Dark is good, but those light walls and ceiling will reflect quite a bit I'm sure.
Takes some talking to and a very understanding other 1/2 to fix those issues if desired.
Worth it to me, my sister hates my room....until I put something on. 😂

 

[Mike Garrett]

We are rapidly approaching the time when it's probably worth waiting to see what gets announced at CEDIA.



FWIW, (single chip) DLP is immune to one of your primary complaints with your Epson, panel alignment. If (and it's a really, really big if) the new 4K DMD allows for a lot higher contrast, the new 4K DLPs could be quite interesting.

That said, early indications are they won't be terribly price competitive, it sounds like they'll be in the RS500 price range probably, more for the LED/Laser versions, and I'd bet against them having competitive contrast.

Maybe the most interesting thing to wait on would be to see if Epson has a refresh of the LS10000. If they have something with HDR and Rec.2020, and maybe improved contrast, that could be a rather compelling option.

All that said, it's going to be really hard to beat the RS500, even if Epson has a refresh it will likely only close the performance gap and will probably still be a good bit more expensive. Sony, I personally won't even consider them until they figure out the panel degradation issue, AND the ridiculous US pricing.

From the JVC camp, I bet it is RS400, RS500 and RS600. Hopefully a model above those three.

For HDR to do much of anything on the Epson, most people are going to need more lumens. I will say a lower cost LS10000 with the items you mentioned, should get some consideration.

 

[Mike Garrett]

The walls are a lighter grey; though with the lights off and blackout curtains closed, the room is exceptionally dark.
Good point though!

If we can help you, give us a call.

 

[stanger89]

From the JVC camp, I bet it is RS400, RS500 and RS600. Hopefully a model above those three.

Agreed (cool about a model above). I'm not really expecting a lot this year from CEDIA, but still, we're getting close to the time where if you can wait a couple months it might be worth it. Of course, it's probably still 7 months until we'd actually see any models in people's hands.

For HDR to do much of anything on the Epson, most people are going to need more lumens. I will say a lower cost LS10000 with the items you mentioned, should get some consideration.

I look at HDR at this point more like bitstream decoding in an AVR, it's best to have it for compatibility, even if it's not really necessary or perceptually beneficial. I still have hope that projector/display manufacturers will be able to better handle HDR with environment settings, and knowledge of their own display, than player manufacturers' generic mapping functions.

 

[erkq]

Wondering just how much better the 500 would be over the 400 with those light walls.

The walls are a lighter grey; though with the lights off and blackout curtains closed, the room is exceptionally dark.
Good point though!

Dark is good, but those light walls and ceiling will reflect quite a bit I'm sure.
Takes some talking to and a very understanding other 1/2 to fix those issues if desired.
Worth it to me, my sister hates my room....until I put something on. 😂

Yes, those walls will make a significant impact on the mixed brightness scenes with the RS500. My wife is a keeper. I did the "flashlight" test where I shown a dim flashlight toward the back wall of the theater from the screen. I said, "There! That is the blackest black we'll ever get with that little bit of light coming off the screen." as I gesture toward the screen lit up just by the reflection from the back wall. She was impressed. Now she's all about paint's light absorptive index and DARK fabric for covering sound treatments.

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to say... Yes! Time to upgrade. And upgrade to an RS500. You'll love it! It's got some minor annoyances, but overall you'll love it.

 

[bfs673]

Yes, those walls will make a significant impact on the mixed brightness scenes with the RS500. My wife is a keeper. I did the "flashlight" test where I shown a dim flashlight toward the back wall of the theater from the screen. I said, "There! That is the blackest black we'll ever get with that little bit of light coming off the screen." as I gesture toward the screen lit up just by the reflection from the back wall. She was impressed. Now she's all about paint's light absorptive index and DARK fabric for covering sound treatments.

LOL, I wish I had thought of that when selecting the colors for the theater. It was hard enough to get the wife to approve the idea of grey with the front wall a charcoal color. The ceiling is the only "color" so to speak, as it's a deep purple (yeah... I know!). It matches the deep purple black-out drapes. She just had to have some color in there.


If it wasn't for the WAF it'd be designed a bit differently.


Live and learn!


At any rate, I would hope the contrast an PQ of the JVC (RS500) would be a vast improvement over the Epson.

 

[Mike Garrett]

LOL, I wish I had thought of that when selecting the colors for the theater. It was hard enough to get the wife to approve the idea of grey with the front wall a charcoal color. The ceiling is the only "color" so to speak, as it's a deep purple (yeah... I know!). It matches the deep purple black-out drapes. She just had to have some color in there.


If it wasn't for the WAF it'd be designed a bit differently.


Live and learn!


At any rate, I would hope the contrast an PQ of the JVC (RS500) would be a vast improvement over the Epson.

Yes it definitely would be.

 

[jlanzy]

While people may be happy with the RS400 (and justly so) I've had an RS500 here with an RS400 and there's no way I could settle and go back to the RS400 after seeing both images side by side. If you can afford the RS500 it's worth the extra money. The RS400 is definitely the better "bang for the buck" but as Mike and Craig over at AVScience will tell you, this year BY A LARGE MARGIN people went with the RS500 and RS600 over the RS400. The contrast performance between the RS400 an RS500 is visibly large and the extra large color gamut that the RS500 is capable of is nice if you want to take more advantage of UHD Blu-ray as the RS400 can only do slightly larger than REC709, whereas the RS500 can do P3 (99% at least). Add in the extra contrast and similar brightness and you're in for a much better UHD BD HDR WCG experience.

Now if JVC only adds true 4K to all that , then we're cooking, even if at a bit higher cost.

 

[Mike Garrett]

Now if JVC only adds true 4K to all that , then we're cooking, even if at a bit higher cost.

If they do, I suspect that it will be a lot higher cost.

 

[jh901]

Why not invest in black velvet for light treatment of the entire room? It's a dedicated space, so take advantage. The perceived contrast improvement will buy you some time. Hopefully, your wife will appreciate the investment into the room rather than chasing a new, pricey projector which won't be able to do its thing anyhow (as the room currently is).

 

[darrellh44]

Why not invest in black velvet for light treatment of the entire room? It's a dedicated space, so take advantage. The perceived contrast improvement will buy you some time. Hopefully, your wife will appreciate the investment into the room rather than chasing a new, pricey projector which won't be able to do its thing anyhow (as the room currently is).

You might want to look at dark velvet curtains for WAF (doesn't have to be black, but the darker the better). You can close the curtains when you want a dark room, and leave them open for a more wife friendly room. Thick velvet curtains may even help a little with acoustic treatment, although it's fairly easy to over-absorb high frequencies this way. If you have an AVR with room EQ, you may be able to compensate.

 

[bfs673]

Thanks for the replies.
I think I will be putting this off until the end of year and go with the RS500 at a minimum.
I believe I may also look at darker colors for the walls to help with the contrast


I don't think this room will ever be completed!!! LOL.