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I've actually never owned Home Theater speakers before. Only Hi-fi speakers. What will I hear that's different compared to the hi-fi speaker's?
In theory you shouldn't hear anything different. A speaker's job is to reproduce the input signal that's fed to it.

In practice, most hi-fi speakers are voiced to be smooth sounding so as not to be fatiguing to listen to. Most home theater speakers are designed to be very dynamic, such that short duration loud events (think gunshots in movies) are reproduced well. Many times this leads to home theater speakers sounding harsh, though I've not noticed that with any of the diysoundgroup offerings.
 

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Not spray paint, they make a tiny can of brush paint. No not the cone or anything, only the very edge of the basket where it’s silver.

The diysg speakers are very efficient using pro drivers. Seos horns are designed to give wide horizontal dispersion and narrow vertical to reduce first reflections etc. I have only had a little listening time but the titan is a very capable speaker with the three way design and 15” woofer. My room isn’t properly treated for first reflections yet but the titans still sound amazing and the dynamics and clarity is amazing in movies. I got the htm10 first and at first I was a little disappointed comparing it to Mini Statements with the ribbon tweeter, but after watching movies I changed my tune. Titans also have a higher end compression driver so one day I want to listen to it and the htm10 side by side. The ribbon tweeter on the Statements has so much air and detail it’s not really a fair comparison, and the other thing that becomes clear is how much the seos helps with ceiling bounce. Especially if you can’t treat the ceiling the seos is a great idea, dome tweeters also don’t have limited dispersion as a generality. If I had to pick a subjective word, seos has a more dry presentation, probably due to less sound reflecting from the ceiling, very controlled and composed. If you listen to a lot of violin music out might prefer the dome/ribbon tweeter but for movie dynamics? Titan by a mile. They will render an action soundtrack with total dynamics and total composure at volumes well beyond what I like. There’s lots of info on here if you search.
 

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I think I'm sold on Titan615LXs for LCR.
Sounds like the Volt10s are a great match for surrounds.

Should I also use Volt10s for ATMOS? Overkill?

Given the Titan's ability to crush the mids pretty hard, I'm still trying to figure out which subwoofer combination would be best buds with the LCRs.
4 Full Martys or 2 Devastators or sonosubs or ...?
Room is 17Wx29Lx8H... new build dedicated HT, with 10% music.

Seating position is undetermined until I figure out how deep the baffle wall will be behind the AT screen... but front row may be a little closer than what has been recommended historically, but will be 4k - so it could actually be acceptable.
Would 2 DEVs be comparable to 4 Martys? If performance would be similar, the budget would determine the choice. If there are better pairings out there I need to research, I'm all ears. (and eyes... basically just ears and eyes).
 

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In theory you shouldn't hear anything different. A speaker's job is to reproduce the input signal that's fed to it.

In practice, most hi-fi speakers are voiced to be smooth sounding so as not to be fatiguing to listen to. Most home theater speakers are designed to be very dynamic, such that short duration loud events (think gunshots in movies) are reproduced well. Many times this leads to home theater speakers sounding harsh, though I've not noticed that with any of the diysoundgroup offerings.
Interesting... So is that what sets apart Hi-fi vs Home Theater speakers. How dynamic they are?

And what about clarity... I love good clarity. Will the Titan be as clear as the Triton 1's?

Thanks
 

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Interesting... So is that what sets apart Hi-fi vs Home Theater speakers. How dynamic they are?

And what about clarity... I love good clarity. Will the Titan be as clear as the Triton 1's?

Thanks
To super over-generalize:

"Theater speakers": Efficient. Can play loud without distortion. Narrower dispersion (direct, focused sound. less reflections).

"Hi-Fi": Wide dispersion (more envelopment, ambiance, reflections). This contributes to that open "airiness" characteristic you'll sometimes hear people talk about.
 

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To super over-generalize:

"Theater speakers": Efficient. Can play loud without distortion. Narrower dispersion (direct, focused sound. less reflections).

"Hi-Fi": Wide dispersion (more envelopment, ambiance, reflections). This contributes to that open "airiness" characteristic you'll sometimes hear people talk about.
I'd disagree with that statement overall. Most good theater speakers have very wide dispersion, but narrow vertical dispersion... Hence the common large wave guides you'll see in most theater speakers.

A speakers job is to reproduce what it is fed. There shouldn't be a difference between theater and 'hi-fi' speakers outside of potential form factor concerns.
 

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IMO you can really hear the difference between good theater speakers and good music speakers.

That being said, good music speakers can sound good in a theater and vice versa.
 

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I think I'm going to... I've actually never owned Home Theater speakers before. Only Hi-fi speakers. What will I hear that's different compared to the hi-fi speaker's?
I've owned various front loaded horn speakers for over 20 years, and as well as the characteristics others have offered, conventional narrow baffle cone/dome speakers sound constipated. They strain to get it out, but can't.
 

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I'd disagree with that statement overall. Most good theater speakers have very wide dispersion, but narrow vertical dispersion... Hence the common large wave guides you'll see in most theater speakers.

A speakers job is to reproduce what it is fed. There shouldn't be a difference between theater and 'hi-fi' speakers outside of potential form factor concerns.
If it has a waveguide, it's narrowing the dispersion by definition. A dome tweeter on a flat baffle will have way wider dispersion.

The dispersion is the primary acoustic difference. Both can be ruler flat on-axis, and reproduce the input signal. Off-axis is where they differ.

Go look at the directivity indices of both types.

Edit: To add, the horizontal vs vertical dispersion is usually selected to ensure consistent direct sound across the audience. Audiences tend to be more horizontally distributed than vertically, hence the common wide waveguide shape. Outside the audience, PA systems don't want to waste output on sidewall and ceiling/floor reflections, so you redirect it forward to get higher efficiency and consequently narrower dispersion.

Hi-fi speakers are typically used in small rooms at much lower levels, where the need for extreme efficiency isn't as necessary. Unless you're a rabid AVS Forum user :D
 

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I'd disagree with that statement overall. Most good theater speakers have very wide dispersion, but narrow vertical dispersion...
If it has a waveguide, it's narrowing the dispersion by definition. A dome tweeter on a flat baffle will have way wider dispersion.

The dispersion is the primary acoustic difference. Both can be ruler flat on-axis, and reproduce the input signal. Off-axis is where they differ....
And I say you're both wrong! :eek: But you're also both right! ;) Depending upon the exact speakers you're comparing.... In other words, it's hard to generalize.

Some Hi-Fi speakers have extremely narrow dispersion. Some have extremely wide dispersion. Some are smooth off-axis. Others are a nightmare off-axis. They just vary way too much to generalize.

The JBL M2's make excellent HT speakers (along with many other Synthesis speakers of course) and they have a pretty darn wide 120 degrees horizontal dispersion. JTR's are also excellent with 60 degrees. I think the Titan is right in the sweet spot at 90 degrees. :)

If one has to generalize about dispersion, I would say it's probably easier to find HT oriented speakers that are flat off-axis because we're usually less afraid of horns though of course some Hi-Fi speakers are quite good as well.


I would generalize in this way--having flat-ish and smooth off-axis response (relatively constant directivity) is much more important for HT. This is pretty obvious given the fact the goal is to get good sound to multiple listeners--not a single listener at the sweet spot. This ensures the best possible direct sound is available to those sitting off-axis. Dispersion width needed depends upon the audience size, listening distance, etc.



While a single listener listening to 2-channel can adjust the toe in order to make the speakers sound the best for him, that only works for him. And he may prefer super-wide dispersion speakers as they give the most "spacious" sound from 2 channel music. With a multi-channel setup, you have other speakers providing the "spaciousness" so super wide dispersion loses any value and can work against you for multiple listeners as listeners off-axis get a loud, dominating sound from the speaker to which they're closest (time-intensity trading doesn't work). This is one reason I think relatively narrow dispersion speakers (with constant directivity) can work much better for multi-channel, even if many audiophiles wouldn't like them as much for 2 channel listening. On that subject, Matthew Poes recently did a video on time-intensity trading with some pretty good info:






Anyway, that's all just pertaining to dispersion properties. There are other differences, of course--the biggest is probably output capability. Home theaters often have much longer listening distances to the speakers and movies often have very wide dynamic range where most music (other than classical) has a much more limited dynamic range. So output capability is much more important. This is why you see so many speakers using compression drivers that can sound very good but can also play very loud with low distortion--typically well beyond the level most dome or ribbon tweeters start sounding very bad and are risking being damaged.
 

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Some Hi-Fi speakers have extremely narrow dispersion. Some have extremely wide dispersion. Some are smooth off-axis. Others are a nightmare off-axis. They just vary way too much to generalize.
As I said, I am super over-generalizing. I never made any comments on how smooth the off-axis sound is, just the directivity.

My point stands if you are talking about horn loaded CD speakers vs dome tweeters mounted on flat baffles (or shallow waveguides).

What hi-fi speakers would you say have narrow dispersion? Speakers with ribbon tweeters? Most modern hi-fi speakers also use smaller woofers than the pro-audio counterparts, which widens dispersion further down the frequency range.
 

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With a multi-channel setup, you have other speakers providing the "spaciousness" so super wide dispersion loses any value and can work against you for multiple listeners as listeners off-axis get a loud, dominating sound from the speaker to which they're closest (time-intensity trading doesn't work). This is one reason I think relatively narrow dispersion speakers (with constant directivity) can work much better for multi-channel, even if many audiophiles wouldn't like them as much for 2 channel listening.
This is only true if the recording has the spaciousness baked into the other channels, or if you are using an up-mixer.

Typical center channel dialogue will still sound dryer with narrower dispersion speakers.
 

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As I said, I am super over-generalizing. I never made any comments on how smooth the off-axis sound is, just the directivity.

My point stands if you are talking about horn loaded CD speakers vs dome tweeters mounted on flat baffles (or shallow waveguides).
In general, yes, a typical dome tweeter on a flat baffle will be wider--somewhere in the frequency range. Unfortunately the lack of smoothness with many typical cone/dome speakers makes it even harder to generalize. Many have very narrow dispersion at the crossover point (which in my opinion is poor design, but don't tell a B&W owner that!). Also many will have narrow dispersion at high frequencies where the tweeter starts beaming, where a good CD horn can usually keep a wider pattern at those frequencies. So in comparison, quite often a good CD horn at 90 degrees or so will be both more narrow and wider depending upon the frequency you look at. But I don't disagree with your general point.


What hi-fi speakers would you say have narrow dispersion? Speakers with ribbon tweeters? Most modern hi-fi speakers also use smaller woofers than the pro-audio counterparts, which widens dispersion further down the frequency range.
Many of the flat panel type of speakers (Magnepan, Martin Logan, etc) are quite narrow, various Klipsch horn speakers are very narrow (and not constant directivity), most of the KEF line of coaxials hover around 90 degrees which is narrow compared with a typical dome as you describe above (but I'd certainly be fine with). There's also a whole bunch of other "horn speakers" some audiophiles like such as Avantgarde, with very different types of horns that are extremely narrow dispersion.

This is only true if the recording has the spaciousness baked into the other channels, or if you are using an up-mixer.

Typical center channel dialogue will still sound dryer with narrower dispersion speakers.
Well, if the dialogue is dry, it should sound dry. :) If a character is speaking in a large empty room or somewhere else that should give some reverb or echo, those should still come from the surrounds/heights. No room reflections should be needed.



My point with the second part of that quote I think is actually much more important. Consider a listener sitting on the left side of a home theater. With really wide dispersion speakers, the left front speaker will be extremely loud for him and will drown out the center channel, making dialog more difficult to hear. With a good CD horn speaker, you can toe them in just right such that the left front speaker is not louder in volume even though he is closer to it because he's sitting well off-axis. And if it's a good CD speaker, he still gets a good quality flat response from it. Speakers like the Titan can do this, most Hi-Fi speakers cannot.
 

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My chairs are lower than the tweeter ear level, tested adding larger feet to the upper section back side to angle the upper bracket slightly down and it’s a small but noticeable improvement. Absolutely love the titans.
 

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These Titans look awesome.
Do you have to buy the flat packs or is there a Cut-List I can get my hands on... with all the parts, speakers, crossovers? This is something I think I have not found on the forums. It would be awesome if we could click the Speaker build link and Boom! Cutlist and parts at your service. Of course, the comments and builds of others should still be shared. That's like sharing your faith! Sometimes it can be difficult to find all the key information :)
 

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There are quite a few builds on here where people did their own boxes. Some were slot ported. You don't have to buy the flat pack.

Tim
 

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I have Titans as my front stage but I use them primarily for music in 2 channel. These speakers are absolutely amazing, I had a friend who sat in on a listening session state they cannot believe what he was hearing. The imaging and dynamic range is mind blowing. As for theater use, I have 4 volt 8s and 4 VBSS subs.... Could not be happier
 

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No mention of Titan anywhere on diysg's website. Have they been discontinued? Sorry to hear that, if so.
 

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No mention of Titan anywhere on diysg's website. Have they been discontinued? Sorry to hear that, if so.
Who knows?

It has been a crazy year so I am writing of 2020 for DIY. Luckiy, I need to replace my roof and am using white metal so new things to learn! :) Woohoo, should be done in the next 10 days and get to use all my cool DIY power tools for other things besides toys--my wife likes the new roof going up. Feels nice, I go to the lumber yard near my house and they have most things in stock or can have them in a few days--game on!

I do have a subwoofer design on paper--might get the driver and ponder finishing optons but with the sporatic at best supply lines for audio--best justt to write it off for the year. Yeah, this is prime DIY building time with nice weather but the juice is not worth the squeeze to start-stop-start-stop when trying to get all the parts. Parts Express tries their best though, they gve an estimated restock or shippig date--you have that.

For actual finishing my projects, I'm going to Plan B... although some people might find checking the website every day and jumping on availability like it is a lucky find at a flea market, that gets old very quickly. The forum used to provide information but that has pretty much become dead and the update page has been worthless for years. If you really want to know, you have to email Erich and wait for a response--or not. The corona thing is great for many companies to move or change locations because of supply line disruptions (JTR for example) some companies keep you in the loop with what is going on--I like those companies and some of them provde plenty of information and customer service during this chaotic time for audio components--it's not like audio has prioority in the supply chain.... toys get to the back of the line so understandable.

In summation, be patient and relax--if you need it now, look elsewere. DIY tends to take time and the weather will be in the dumpster in a month so I cancelled for the season. I'll be back online in the spring but will be going full "plan B" so no worries on my part. Going back to my DIY roots--the Ikea Audio thing is too hit or miss for me. I would love to give you an estimate when/if DIYSG will come back online but realistically, the "next week" or a "few weeks" thing turned into months so to be safe, think of it as a Christmas present. Marantz can't get parts so I'm sure Erich is far, far below that on the food chain so don't hold your breath. Sure, Erich could post that on his site but that is part of the fun of DIYSG--the "elusive" nature of product is half the fun. :)

After all--yuu really want a Titan 818.... now you have an excuse....reward yourself for the wait! :)
 
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