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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
DVR's save time by skipping commercials and allow time shifting to suite your lifestyle. Recently I became interested in purchasing a Digital Video Recorders (DVR) to time-shift free programs off-the-air (OTA).

I came to AVS to both learn which non-subscription based DVR products are available. There used to be hundreds of tape based VCRs for sale. Mainstream consumer companies like Sony sold millions. Now Sony is a movie company and chosen not to produce a VCR. So today the advertisers, media companies and movie studios work together to make it inconvenient for the consumer to NOT watch commercials.

I was surprised just how few “free” choices there were. Being a skeptical consumer advocate I asked questions that were not answered to any satisfaction. I suspected industry lobbying and began to research outside the forum.

Here is the prize: $70 Billion:

“Audience measurement is considered the lifeblood of the media industry. The $70bn spent on US TV advertising each year is allocated according to viewer numbers. The explosion of online viewing has made the measuring of total audiences across all media platforms more difficult.”
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/fc04615a-8...44feabdc0.html


TIVO seeks to exploit Nielson Weakness:

“The provider of set-top boxes, which already sells national ratings and research, is set to offer data on TV ratings and viewership at the local level, where Nielsen is the only player.

TiVo's offering, dubbed "Stop Watch," uses data gleaned from its set-top box subscribers to track what people watch, record and skip. The company plans to announce the local service today at the National Association of Broadcasters' NAB Show in Las Vegas.

Advertisers, agencies and TV networks use the second-by-second ratings of programs and commercials to gain more insight into TV-viewing habits.”
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04202009...th__165242.htm


This is confirmed by the president of TIVO in a site dedicated to its advertisers:

“TiVo enables advertisers and consumers to connect in new ways. By taking advertising to the next level, TiVo makes ad messaging different and fun for consumers. As a result, elusive time-shifted viewers are now engaging with your ads – even when in fast-forward mode.”
http://www3.tivo.com/tivoadvertising...rketplace.html


If any point is to me made in this thread, it is the loss of freedom and privacy to subscription based DVR’s. I admit that I’m just as stupid as anyone else for effectively paying twice for TV stations programming (TV stations then satellite or cable providers). Now TIVO requires a third payment/subscription with a dedicated phone line or Internet required (all paid for by the consumer). Then they insert commercials in at every pause or fast-forward. This defeats a major the purpose of purchasing a DVR.

When is this insanity going to stop?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The following is the TIVo privacy policy taken directly from their website. It makes many important points, which all prospective purchasers should read in its entirety as they are forced state many important facts omitted from this site:

"TiVo Privacy Policy

Updated August 2008


Preamble

TiVo Inc. ("TiVo") is committed to protecting the privacy of your personal information. The TiVo Privacy Policy is published on the World Wide Web at www.tivo.com/privacy . We have printed it here for your convenience, but we encourage you to check the web site or call us for a copy of the current Privacy Policy.


This Privacy Policy applies to your use of the TiVo service (also known as the TiVo Plus service) and/or the TiVo Basic service, as the case may be. For purposes of convenience only, the TiVo service (also known as the TiVo Plus service) and the TiVo Basic service are each referred to individually as the "TiVo service" in this Privacy Policy. Where the Privacy Policy differs depending on the type of service you have, that difference will be noted. Use of your TiVo® Digital Video Recorder (referred to in this Privacy Policy as your "TiVo DVR") with the TiVo service will signify your acceptance of this Privacy Policy. Thank you for using the TiVo service!


Summary of the TiVo Privacy Policy


TiVo knows how important personal privacy is to you, so we have designed our system and established strict policies to help protect the privacy of your Personally Identifiable Viewing Information. In summary, we want you to know that:


* The TiVo DVR collects certain types of information from its users, including Anonymous Viewing Information, Diagnostic Information, Commerce Information, and Service Information (each as defined below).

* TiVo does not collect or access any Personally Identifiable Viewing Information (as defined below) from your TiVo DVR without your prior consent. Absent your consent, TiVo does not keep track of what shows you-as an individual or household- have watched, recorded, or rated with "Thumbs Up" or "Thumbs Down." NOTE: If your TiVo DVR is receiving the TiVo Basic service, you may not be able to consent to TiVo’s collection of your Personally Identifiable Viewing Information from that TiVo DVR.

* TiVo does collect Anonymous Viewing Information; that is, information about viewing choices made while using your TiVo DVR, but that does not identify you as an individual or household. In other words, TiVo does not link any personally identifiable information with your Anonymous Viewing Information that TiVo could use to identify the Anonymous Viewing Information as coming from you or your household.

* TiVo also collects Diagnostic Information from a small number of randomly sampled TiVo DVRs for quality control purposes. If you subscribe to the TiVo Plus service and don’t want your Anonymous Viewing Information and Diagnostic Information used in any way, simply tell us by writing to us or calling us at 1-877-367-8486.

* If you affirmatively elect to engage in a commercial transaction such as by responding to an advertisement or promotion, TiVo will collect and disclose your Commerce Information (as defined below) to the commerce partner fulfilling the transaction.

* If you affirmatively elect to download content to your TiVo DVR using a TiVo content delivery service ("CDS") or use other advanced features of the TiVo Plus service, TiVo will need to collect the Personally Identifiable Viewing Information associated with fulfillment of your individual request(s) and you may need to change your privacy preferences.

* TiVo intends to make available new services in the future. These services will be governed by the privacy policies of the respective service providers.

* NOTE TO TIVO BASIC SERVICE CUSTOMERS: If your TiVo DVR is receiving the TiVo Basic service, you may not (i) be able to opt out of our collection of Anonymous Viewing Information and Diagnostic Information from that TiVo DVR, (ii) opt out of your receipt of communications we send you in the event you provide us with Contact Information (though you are not required to provide us with any Contact Information as to that TiVo DVR), (iii) engage in commerce transactions from that TiVo DVR, (iv) use content delivery services with that TiVo DVR; (v) use the Online Scheduling feature with that TiVo DVR, or (vi) be able to change your privacy preferences to allow TiVo to collect Personally Identifiable Viewing Information from that TiVo DVR.

* NOTE TO CUSTOMERS WITH MORE THAN ONE TIVO DVR: Generally, TiVo will cause all of all the TiVo DVRs on your account receiving the TiVo Plus service to have the same "opt" status. See Sec. 2.9 of the Privacy Policy for further details.


TiVo Privacy Policy

Please read this Privacy Policy carefully. It provides important information on how your privacy is protected when using the TiVo service.


In order to provide you with a better, more satisfying television experience, TiVo Inc. ("TiVo") collects and uses certain types of information, as described in this Privacy Policy. The User Information (defined below) you provide to the TiVo Digital Video Recorder (referred to in this Privacy Policy as your "TiVo DVR") in your house and to us at TiVo enables your TiVo DVR to select programs you want it to record and, if you are TiVo Plus service user, to suggest programs you might enjoy.


By using your TiVo DVR and the TiVo service, you consent to the provisions of this Privacy Policy including the privacy preferences set forth in Section 4.1. This Privacy Policy explains our commitments to your privacy in the following areas:


1. Our User Information Definitions

In discussing the kind of information TiVo collects, it is important to distinguish between anonymous information and other information that specifically identifies you or your household. Too often people refer to "personal information" or "personally identifiable information" without really making clear what they mean. TiVo has developed the following definitions to help clarify this important issue. We use "User Information" as a general term that refers to any information relating to you or your use of the TiVo service. The following are more specific types of User Information.


1.1 "Account Information" means information about you and your TiVo DVR, including your Contact Information (defined below) and other information linked to your Contact Information such as the model and Service Number of your TiVo DVR, your ZIP code, software version used, your TV programming source (cable, satellite or an antenna), the type of cable hook-up (digital or analog) and level of TiVo service (TiVo Basic, TiVo Plus, premium services, etc.), privacy preferences, and the cable or satellite box model that you use. You provide us with this information when (a) you set up your TiVo DVR with TiVo Basic service or (b) when you register as a user of the TiVo Plus service. This Service Information (defined below) is sent to TiVo on an ongoing basis to enable TiVo to provide the TiVo service to your TiVo DVR. Account Information also includes information we may receive about you in a communication from you or a Third Party. Account Information does not include any Personally Identifiable Viewing Information, or Anonymous Viewing Information, as defined below.


a "Contact Information" means information which you provide to TiVo that allows TiVoto identify or contact you, including, for example: your name, address, telephone number, and e-mail address. Contact Information is a subset of Account Information and is thus linked to your TiVo DVR’s Service Number. Your ZIP code by itself, while part of your address, is not Contact Information because your ZIP code alone does not allow someone to identify or contact you. NOTE: If your TiVo DVR is receiving the TiVo Basic service, you are not required to provide TiVo with any Contact Information from that TiVo DVR.


b "Service Information" means information necessary for TiVo to provide service to your TiVo DVR. Examples of Service Information include your software version number, your TV programming source, level of service, and the success status of the last attempted service connection (e.g., periodic call). This information is always transmitted to TiVo when connected to the TiVo servers.


1.2 "Personally Identifiable Viewing Information" means information about the viewing choices that you and those in your household make while using your TiVo DVR, if that information is linked to or associated with your Contact Information by TiVo. We have worked very hard to design our system to ensure that no Personally Identifiable Viewing Information may be sent to, or collected by, TiVo without your express consent. If you use the TiVo Plus service, you may choose to consent to TiVo’s collection of Personally Identifiable Viewing Information by changing your privacy preferences. NOTE: If your TiVo DVR is receiving the TiVo Basic service, you may not be able to consent to TiVo’s collection of Personally Identifiable Viewing Information from that TiVo DVR.


1.3 "Anonymous Viewing Information" means information about viewing choices that you and those in your household make while using your TiVo DVR, but is not associated with or linked to any Contact Information that TiVo can use to identify you. Your TiVo DVR sends Anonymous Viewing Information to TiVo on an ongoing basis. This information allows TiVo to know that a TiVo service user from a particular ZIP code watched certain programming but TiVo does not identify those viewing choices with you as an individual or household. If you use the TiVo Plus service, you may request that TiVo block the collection of Anonymous Viewing Information from your TiVo DVR as described in Section 4.1. NOTE: If your TiVo DVR is receiving the TiVo Basic service, you may not opt out of TiVo’s collection of Anonymous Viewing Information from that TiVo DVR.


1.4 "Diagnostic Information" means a log file containing detailed information about the operation of your TiVo DVR, such as memory consumption, user interface response time, disk space, enclosure temperature, and enclosure fan speed. Diagnostic Information logs contain your TiVo DVR’s Service Number and are thus associated with your Account Information. If you use the TiVo Plus service, you may request that TiVo block the collection of Diagnostic Information logs from your TiVo DVR as described in Section 4.1. NOTE: If your TiVo DVR is receiving the TiVo Basic service, you may not opt out of TiVo’s collection of Diagnostic Information from that TiVo DVR.


1.5 "Commerce Information" means personally identifiable information that enables a commerce partner to fulfill your request to participate in a promotion or transaction. From time to time, TiVo may present special offers and/or enable you to purchase goods and services from TiVo, or Third Party advertisers or promoters. You would be informed of such offers on screen while using the TiVo Plus service. Should you decide to take advantage of such an offer or engage in a transaction, TiVo will collect and communicate your relevant Contact Information and your interest in a specific offer or transaction to the commerce partner sponsoring the promotion or transaction. In addition to fulfilling your request, that commerce partner may also use your Commerce Information to send you other information in which you might be interested consistent with its own privacy policies. This information is collected and disclosed by TiVo only upon your affirmative response to an offer. NOTE: Depending on your level of TiVo service and the model of your TiVo DVR, such features may not be available to you.


1.6 "Feature-Generated Request Information" means personally identifiable information about television programming or other content that you request your TiVo DVR to record, access or identify using a feature or service offered by a Third Party, or using certain TiVo features. Should you decide to use such a feature or service, TiVo will collect the Personally Identifiable Viewing Information associated with the fulfillment of your request. TiVo may use this Personally Identifiable Viewing Information as described in Section 2.2. If the feature or service is offered by a Third Party, TiVo will communicate to the Third Party the necessary Personally Identifiable Viewing Information to fulfill the request. In the case of Third Party service providers, the use of this information will be governed by the privacy policy of the respective Third Party service provider. TiVo collects this information only upon your affirmative choice to use a particular feature. NOTE: Depending on your level of TiVo service and the model of your TiVo DVR, such features may not be available to you.


2. Use of User Information


2.1 Account Information. We use your Account Information to establish and provide you with your TiVo service, provide the necessary resources to your TiVo DVR, offer you new services when they are available, and other legitimate business purposes. For example, we use your e-mail address to communicate with you regarding new services, and to exclude you from offers for services you may already have. If you use the TiVo Plus service, we also use such information to create your account with TiVo and to bill you for the TiVo Plus service. Knowing your ZIP code, programming source, and information about your cable or satellite box model allows us to determine which programming information (e.g., times and channels of programs) to send to your TiVo DVR.


We use your Account Information to communicate with you about upcoming features in the TiVo service or promotions that might interest you. If you use the TiVo Plus service, you may opt not to receive communications in the future as explained in Section 4.1. We also use your Account Information in aggregate form (i.e., excluding any Contact Information) to generate demographic profiles of our users as a whole to assist us to, for example, identify future users of the TiVo service or other services. NOTE: If your TiVo DVR is receiving the TiVo Basic service, and you choose to provide us with Contact Information, you may not opt out from receiving communications in the future. However, you are not required to provide us with any Contact Information so long as that TiVo DVR is receiving the TiVo Basic service.


2.2 Personally Identifiable Viewing Information. Your TiVo DVR uses your viewing information to tune, schedule, and record programs. TiVo does not receive the Personally Identifiable Viewing Information stored on your TiVo DVR without your consent. Absent your consent, no "tag" is added to the Anonymous Viewing Information transmitted from your TiVo DVR to TiVo that would enable TiVo to identify the TiVo DVR from which it came.


The collection of Personally Identifiable Viewing Information is necessary for the use of certain advanced TiVo features. You will be asked to change your privacy preferences to allow TiVo to collect your Personally Identifiable Viewing Information before you can use these advanced features. If you expressly choose to allow TiVo to collect your Personally Identifiable Viewing Information, TiVo may use this information to provide the requested services as well as for surveys, audience measurement, and other legitimate business purposes. However, TiVo will not sell or otherwise disclose your Personally Identifiable Viewing Information to Third Parties (as defined in Section 3.1) without your express consent.


2.3 Anonymous Viewing Information. We use Anonymous Viewing Information to develop reports and analyses about what programs, advertisements, and types of programming our users watch or skip, for other programming or advertising research, and for any other legitimate business purpose. For example, we use Anonymous Viewing Information to develop inferences that people who watch show X also watch show Y. We also use Anonymous Viewing Information to help with the investigation of technical issues with our systems.


2.4 Diagnostic Information. TiVo collects Diagnostic Information logs from a small number of randomly sampled TiVo DVRs for quality control and technical troubleshooting purposes.


2.5 Commerce Information. TiVo uses Commerce Information as described in Section 1.5.


2.6 Feature Generated Requests Information. TiVo uses Feature Generated Request Information for the purposes described in Section 1.6.


2.7 Activating the TiVo Plus Service. When you activate a TiVo DVR that was receiving TiVo Basic service to receive the TiVo Plus service, and it is the only TiVo DVR on your account receiving the TiVo Plus service, your TiVo DVR will provide Anonymous Viewing Information and Diagnostic Information to TiVo. You may opt in to the collection of Personally Identifiable Viewing Information or opt out of TiVo’s collection of Anonymous Viewing Information and Diagnostic Information pursuant to the terms and conditions of this Privacy Policy.


2.8 Reverting to the TiVo Basic Service. If you decide to terminate your TiVo Plus service, and your TiVo DVR is eligible to receive the TiVo Basic service, that TiVo DVR will retain the opt status that it had when the TiVo Plus service is terminated. NOTE: Your TiVo DVR may not be eligible to receive the TiVo Basic service. Consult your User’s Guide to determine if your TiVo DVR is eligible to receive the TiVo Basic service.


2.9 TiVo Customers with Multiple TiVo DVRs. TiVo will cause all of the TiVo DVRs on your account to have the same "opt" status. This means that if you opt out of our collection of Anonymous Viewing Information and Diagnostic Information from one TiVo DVR, we will not collect Anonymous Viewing Information and Diagnostic Information from any of the TiVo DVRs. If you request that TiVo collect your Personally Identifiable Viewing Information from one TiVo DVR, TiVo will collect Personally Identifiable Viewing Information from all of the TiVo DVRs on your account.


3. Disclosure of User Information


3.1 Generally. We disclose aggregated Account Information and Anonymous Viewing Information and any reports or analyses derived therefrom, to unaffiliated third parties including advertisers, broadcasters, consumer and market research companies and other organizations ("Third Parties").


3.2 Manufacturing and Service Provider Partners. In certain instances we will disclose to our hardware manufacturing partners and service provider partners (for example DIRECTV) the Account Information of users who have a DVR made by that manufacturing partner or receive a service from that service provider partner. However, TiVo contractually binds our manufacturing and service provider partners to comply with the provisions of this Privacy Policy. Our manufacturing and service provider partners are legally liable for misuse of User Information.


3.3 Contractors and Vendors. We use contractors and vendors, including information processing companies, to help with some of our operations. Some of these contractors will have access to our databases of User Information on a temporary basis for specific tasks. TiVo also uses vendors to help with certain aspects of its operations, which may require disclosure of your User Information to them. For example, TiVo may use a vendor to communicate with you (via telephone, e-mail, or letter) about your TiVo service or upcoming features or services, to mail rebate checks, to generate demographic profiles based on User Information of current TiVo service users, and to perform other work that we may need to outsource. If you are a TiVo Plus service user, TiVo may additionally use a vendor to process and collect payment for your TiVo Plus service via your credit card. TiVo contractually binds these contractors and vendors to use your User Information only as necessary to perform the services they are asked to perform. For example, a contractor or vendor provided with anonymous information would be required to maintain that anonymity and make no other use of that information. Such contractors and vendors are legally liable for misuse of User Information.


3.4 The "Corporate Family." TiVo may share some or all of your User Information with any parent company, subsidiaries, joint ventures, or other companies under a common control (collectively "Affiliates"). In such event, TiVo will require its Affiliates to honor this Privacy Policy. If another company acquires TiVo, or acquires assets of TiVo that comprise or include your User Information, that company will possess the User Information collected by TiVo and it will assume the rights and obligations regarding your User Information as described in this Privacy Policy.


3.5 Commerce Partners. When you elect to participate in a special offer or engage in a transaction with TiVo or a Third Party advertiser or promoter, TiVo will collect and disclose your Commerce Information to the commerce partner sponsoring and/or fulfilling the promotion. In addition to fulfilling your request, that commerce partner may also use your Commerce Information to send you other information in which you might be interested consistent with its own privacy policies. This information is disclosed only upon your affirmative response to an offer. NOTE: Depending on your level of TiVo service and the model of your TiVo DVR, such features may not be available to you.


3.6 Factors Beyond Our Control. Your privacy is very important to us. Due to factors beyond our control, however, we cannot fully ensure that your User Information will not be disclosed to Third Parties. For example, we may be legally obligated to disclose User Information to local, state or federal governmental agencies or Third Parties under certain circumstances (including in response to a subpoena), or Third Parties may circumvent our security measures to unlawfully intercept or access your User Information.


4. Your Choices Regarding User Information


4.1 Limits on TiVo's Collection, Use, and Disclosure of User Information. The default privacy preferences, to which you hereby consent, do not allow TiVo to collect Personally Identifiable Viewing Information, but do allow TiVo to collect, use, and disclose Anonymous Viewing Information and Diagnostic Information logs, in addition to Account Information, in manners consistent with this Privacy Policy. Commerce Information is collected, used, and disclosed only upon your affirmative response to an offer. Feature-Generated Request Information is collected, used, and disclosed only upon your affirmative choice to use a particular feature. NOTE: Depending on your level of TiVo service and the model of your TiVo DVR, such features may not be available to you.


Even though Anonymous Viewing Information and Diagnostic Information do not include any Contact Information, if your TiVo DVR is receiving the TiVo Plus service, you may request that TiVo block the collection of Anonymous Viewing Information and Diagnostic Information from your TiVo DVR. If your TiVo DVR is receiving the TiVo Plus service, you may further opt not to receive communications that we send to you based on your Account Information; provided, however, that we will still send you communications TiVo deems important regarding your TiVo Plus service. If you make this choice, you understand that we will not be able to inform you about any upcoming features, improvements, or promotions regarding your TiVo Plus service. In all cases, however, we will collect and use your Account Information (including Service Information) to enable us to provide your TiVo DVR with the TiVo Basic service and the TiVo Plus service. If your TiVo DVR is receiving the TiVo Plus service, you may choose to change your privacy preferences to allow TiVo to collect Personally Identifiable Viewing Information from your TiVo DVR.


If you are a TiVo Plus customer and you would like to change your privacy preferences, you may (a) send TiVo a signed written request at the address set forth in Section 8.3, or (b) call us at 1-877-367-8486 to request a change. NOTE: Please see Sections 2.7, 2.8, and 2.9 above for important provisions if you have a TiVo DVR eligible to receive the TiVo Basic service and if you have multiple TiVo DVRs.


4.2 Review and Update of Account Information. We believe you have a right to know your Contact Information, billing information, and privacy preferences collected and stored by TiVo and to update or change such information you believe is incorrect. You may make a request by telephone, mail, or via the web (if and when available) to review such information and we will mail you a printout of such information. If you request that certain parts of such information be changed, we will make the changes to the extent commercially practicable. In addition, we will take commercially reasonable steps to propagate those changes to Third Parties with whom we may have shared such information pursuant to this Privacy Policy.


4.3 How to Delete Information. Should you decide to discontinue your TiVo Plus service, you may make that request by telephone or mail and we will suspend billing for the TiVo Plus service. After you discontinue the TiVo service, TiVo will maintain your Account Information only as long as necessary for business purposes. In addition, although we delete your Account Information from our "live" database, your Account Information may remain in our archives and records until they are destroyed. NOTE: If your TiVo DVR is eligible to receive the TiVo Basic service then upon termination of the TiVo Plus service you may elect to continue receiving the TiVo Basic service. In such a case, TiVo may maintain your TiVo Plus service Account Information until such time as your TiVo Basic service is terminated. Consult your User’s Guide to determine if your TiVo DVR is eligible to receive the TiVo Basic service.


5. Comment Regarding Children

TiVo feels strongly about protecting the privacy of children and encourages parents to be involved in the television viewing of their minor children by, for example, limiting the types of content minor children can watch.


6. Separate Rules for the TiVo Web Site

We have a separate privacy policy that covers activities on our web site. However, if you register for TiVo service on the Web, or log in to your account preferences page (when available) to make changes to your account or request services, this Privacy Policy will apply to the User Information you provide to us in those instances. If you use the TiVo web site to access certain features or services such as Online Scheduling, we may institute amendments and modifications to this Privacy Policy addressing the handling of your information in providing you such features or services to which you must agree if you wish to use such features or services.


7. Home Network Applications

TiVo DVRs connected to a home network may be able to discover Third Party applications on your personal computer or other network servers that can be accessed on your DVR. These applications are identified on the TiVo menu with a computer icon and may not conform to TiVo’s privacy policy. You understand and acknowledge that TiVo is not responsible for any such Third Party applications you choose to access. We caution you not to enter any personal or sensitive information (such as social security or credit card numbers) while using an application unless you have verified it is from a source that you trust.


8. Security of User Information

When you contact us by e-mail or phone regarding your TiVo service, we ask you for certain Account Information—in order to verify your identity—before accepting requests to make changes to your TiVo service. We take these steps to ensure that only you or a household member who knows your Account Information will be able to access or change your User Information.


TiVo uses industry-standard methods such as encryption to secure the communication of viewing information from your TiVo DVR to TiVo. In addition, TiVo uses industry-standard methods of securing its databases of User Information, including the use of firewalls. Except as provided elsewhere in this Privacy Policy, TiVo limits access to User Information databases to those persons in the TiVo organization who have a business need for such access, including servicing your account, informing you of service news and special TiVo offers, or aggregating Account Information or Anonymous Viewing Information for the purpose of conducting research, and targeting new users. However, you should know that no company, including TiVo, can fully eliminate security risks associated with User Information.


9. General


9.1 Future Features, Services, and Amendments to this Privacy Policy. We may add to or upgrade the TiVo service to provide you with new features on an ongoing basis. We may also make available new services in the future. New services will be governed by the privacy policies of the respective service provider. To the extent that any new features or services may require amendments to this Privacy Policy to describe the treatment of User Information, these amendments are effective upon notice to you. In the event that we make a substantial and material change to our treatment of User Information, such as a change in the way that we collect, use, or disclose Personally Identifiable Viewing Information, we will notify you of such planned change and offer you the opportunity to alter your privacy preferences.


9.2 Technical Problems. Even though TiVo has taken significant steps to ensure that your User Information is never collected, used, or disclosed by TiVo except as set forth by this Privacy Policy, technical mistakes are possible. If such a mistake takes place, we will take commercially reasonable steps to correct it.


9.3 Contact TiVo. Our intention is to be diligent in protecting your privacy by strictly following our Privacy Policy. If you would like to make suggestions or find out more about our privacy practices, please call us at 1-877-367-8486 or send us a letter.


Our mailing address is TiVo Inc., ATTN: Privacy Policy, 2160 Gold Street, P.O. Box 2160, Alviso CA 95002-2160.


9.4> Entire Agreement. The term "including" in this Privacy Policy shall mean "including without limitation." This Privacy Policy supplements and is incorporated into the TiVo Basic Service Agreement, the TiVo Plus Service Agreement, and any other TiVo service Agreements. This Privacy Policy constitutes the entire agreement, and replaces and supersedes all prior agreements, between you and TiVo concerning the subject matter discussed in this Privacy Policy. Use of your TiVo DVR with TiVo service will signify your acceptance of this Privacy Policy.


BY USING THE TIVO SERVICE, I REPRESENT THAT I HAVE READ AND UNDERSTOOD THIS ENTIRE PRIVACY POLICY AND I AGREE TO ALL THE TERMS OF THIS PRIVACY POLICY AS STATED ABOVE.


TiVo Service Privacy Policy v20080801"
http://www3.tivo.com/abouttivo/polic...acypolicy.html
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun /forum/post/16999422


If any point is to me made in this thread, it is the loss of freedom and privacy to subscription based DVR’s. I admit that I’m just as stupid as anyone else for effectively paying twice for TV stations programming (TV stations then satellite or cable providers)

There is no loss of privacy, as everything is anonymous. If you don't like your viewing habits being reported anonymously, then you can stop that too.


As I did before, I'll refer you to the AVS TivoHD FAQ :

Quote:
What is TiVo's privacy policy? Does TiVo report my viewing habits?


TiVo never releases a customer's personal information without their consent, and such consent is never required to use a TiVo.


There are three levels of privacy available to all TiVo owners: opt-out, opt-neutral, or opt-in. The default status for every customer is "opt neutral" unless they call to change it.


With "opt-neutral" (default), the programs you record and the commercials you skip are reported anonymously to TiVo. There is no link of any kind between your DVR and what is anonymously reported. This anonymous data is aggregated for tens of thousands of users, and then sold to advertisers so they can see what programs TiVo users are watching and what commercials are most effective (get skipped the most/least).


If you decide to "opt-in," then reported data is linked to your DVR. Your name and contact information is still kept private, but TiVo associates demographic information with the programs you record and the commercials you skip. Many people "opt in" because it allows them to see their recordings, scheduled recordings, customized channel lineup, etc when they login at Tivo.com.


If you call TiVo and "opt-out," no information on viewing is reported to TiVo, anonymous or otherwise.

This is all explained in the privacy agreement you quoted above.


You seem to feel that network connectivity is a disadvantage. Many see it as an advantage. Network connectivity in a STB/DVR makes it possible to access Internet content on your TV, such as Amazon Unbox, Netflix, MLB.tv, Youtube, Photobucket, Hulu, and various RSS feeds and video podcasts. STB/DVR specific features enabled by network connectivity include remote scheduling, multi-room viewing, remote viewing (i.e. Slingbox), and the ability to download/transfer recordings. Network connectivity also makes it possible for a DVR to search an Internet database that combines multiple sources of free and pay content (Amazon, Netflix, your TV listings, cable VOD, RSS feeds and video podcasts, etc).


With a TiVo, you can remotely schedule programs from any web browser -- click here to see how. A user is not required to "opt in" to use this feature, because the scheduling request is sent to the TiVo without any information from the DVR. In the future, TiVo will require a user to "opt in" if they want online conflict management. Conflict management will allow the user to instantly see whether the remotely scheduled program conflicts with an existing scheduled recording, and if so, allow them to schedule an alternative showing. It's not possible to support this functionality unless DVR-specific information is sent from the TiVo (hence the need to "opt in").


If you choose to "opt in" -- the default on most cable and satellite providers -- you can view your recorded list and upcoming scheduled recordings when you login to the TiVo web site. Soon, you should be able to manage and modify all of your recordings, as you can now with the Comcast TiVo. For more information, see Watch TV Online at Comcast.net .

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun /forum/post/16999422


Then they insert commercials in at every pause or fast-forward.

This is not correct.


TiVo often displays an advertisement on pause ( screenshot ), but it is not on every pause. It is possible to hide the pause menu and its ad so you don't see it; for information on that, see FAQ #110 .


TiVo rarely uses advertisements on fast forward -- I've seen two such ads in the past 18 months --- and when they do, you only see it when you fast forward through commercials. The ad is triggered by the commercial's closed caption information. I know of only one instance where a fast-forward ad was shown during an actual program, and that was on Celebrity Apprentice, where a fast forward ad was shown for a product discussed on the show. There was a outcry from paying TiVo subscribers after that, and it has not happened again.


If you are principally opposed to any form of advertising on a DVR, then the TiVo isn't for you. I don't see how that has anything to do with freedom or privacy, because the advertising is targeted at individual shows, not individual viewers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
bfdtv,

With all due respect, please let the AVS members read for themselves, as you do not give a complete and accurate picture of the pros and cons of TIVO subscriptions.


Instead, to show our impartiality, let us state our occupations:

I am an engineer not associated with the industry. I am a simple consumer here.


What is your role here and do you work for or with any companies connected to the industry?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun /forum/post/16999954


bfdtv,

With all due respect, please let the AVS members read for themselves, as you do not give a complete and accurate picture of the pros and cons of TIVO subscriptions.

On the contrary, that is exactly what I try to do. In three posts now, you've misrepresented TiVo's privacy policy. Intentionally or unintentionally, you've made a number of erroneous statements and presented opinions as fact.


You have some preconceived notions about what TiVo does and doesn't do, without any first-hand experience with that DVR. Several times now, I've explained to you what TiVo does, yet you've chosen to ignore it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun /forum/post/16999954


Instead, to show our impartiality, let us state our occupations:

I am an engineer not associated with the industry. I am a simple consumer here.

I am here as a consumer. I have no association with any DVR manufacturer.
 

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Unnecessary post deleted. Keep on topic, and do not let the discussion get personal.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun /forum/post/17000325


It is important for the credibility of AVS forum for consumers to receive unbiased and impartial information.

That is correct, and they are. Your question was answered. Accept the answer and move on.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun /forum/post/17000496


"NOTE: If your TiVo DVR is receiving the TiVo Basic service, you may not opt out of TiVo's collection of Anonymous Viewing Information from that TiVo DVR."

And I assume you have a problem with TiVo collecting information anonymously?


The solution is simple for you, if you are a Basic service subscriber, cancel your subscription.


I am here solely as a consumer also, and have never had a TiVo. I will probably get one in the near future.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun /forum/post/17000496


"NOTE: If your TiVo DVR is receiving the TiVo Basic service, you may not opt out of TiVo’s collection of Anonymous Viewing Information from that TiVo DVR."

Perhaps you're not aware, but TiVo used to offer a free version of their service. Functionality was similar to the DTVPal DVR with a program guide and timer-based recordings. This was called TiVo Basic.


With TiVo Basic, there is no registration or subscription, so TiVo doesn't have any of your information. TiVo Basic DVRs do download guide information using the Internet connection or phone line. Such free "service" was offered on the very first TiVos, as well as DVD players and DVD recorders with TiVo, but is not available on any current products (it didn't make money).


To disable anonymous reporting, TiVo needs to send a signal to your DVR. This isn't possible with "TiVo Basic," because TiVo doesn't know who you are or what DVR you have. If you were to register your TiVo and sign up for the "TiVo Plus" service (the old name for the pay TiVo service today), then you could call TiVo to have them disable the anonymous reporting on the DVR.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv /forum/post/17000686


Perhaps you're not aware, but TiVo used to offer a free version of their service.

Is Basic only available now for grandfathered accounts?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H /forum/post/17000785


Is Basic only available now for grandfathered accounts?

Technically, there is no account with TiVo Basic. There is nothing to activate.


The feature is only available on discontinued products. I believe the last product to offer it was the Toshiba SD-H400 DVD player.
 

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I am in the market for a HD DVR. I was considering buying a TiVo HD DVR and paying a lifetime fee.


The problem with TiVo is they can change the agreement at any time, even after the customer has paid for lifetime service.

Today TiVo will add advertising while fast forwarding. What unwanted features will TiVo add tomorrow? Will TiVo force viewers to watch a commercial before playing a recorded show? Will TiVo disable 20X fast forward and only allow 2X fast forward? Will TiVo turn into a pop-up hell advertising?


TiVo $299 or $599 depending on hard drive + Lifetime service $399 = $700 or $1000


DTV PAL HD DVR = $250 with no fees


The DTV PAL HD DVR is the better choice. It can record from the program guide just like TiVo, but unlike TiVo there is no advertising built in. There is no monthly fee.


TiVo lost me as a customer when I did my research.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awesomeness /forum/post/17000968


The problem with TiVo is they can change the agreement at any time, even after the customer has paid for lifetime service.

Today TiVo will add advertising while fast forwarding. What unwanted features will TiVo add tomorrow? Will TiVo force viewers to watch a commercial before playing a recorded show? Will TiVo disable 20X fast forward and only allow 2X fast forward? Will TiVo turn into a pop-up hell advertising?

The capability is there, but fast forward advertisements are almost non-existent. You might see two per year if you FF through commercials. If you use 30sec skip, you'll never see them.


Subscriptions account for over 90% of TiVo's revenue after the sale, so TiVo must keep their customers happy. The overwhelming majority of TiVo subscribers are on a monthly plan; do you think they would continue paying $12.95/mo if such changes were made? Do you think many people would buy a TiVo with such changes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Awesomeness /forum/post/17000968


The DTV PAL HD DVR is the better choice. It can record from the program guide just like TiVo, but unlike TiVo there is no advertising built in. There is no monthly fee.

These are two very different products. For many, the most important feature of a DVR is its ability to reliably record programs, and the DTVPal DVR cannot compare in that regard. You'll never get the reliability with a time-based DVR that you get with a name-based DVR like the TiVo. If you don't understand the difference, see FAQ #24 .


Many are more than willing to give up some reliability and usability in exchange for a significantly lower price. For those that are not willing to do that, there's TiVo.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awesomeness /forum/post/17000968



The DTV PAL HD DVR is the better choice. It can record from the program guide just like TiVo, but unlike TiVo there is no advertising built in.

Then I suggest you by the DTVPal


Doesn't the Pal have advertising? All my TVGOS devices have 1/4th of the screen littered with advertising, so much that you can only look at 1hr worth of programming. If the ads weren't their you could easily see 1 1/2 or 2hrs at a time. To me that's more annoying than the occasional pop up ad with a pause. BTW I've personally never seen a ad while FF'ing or REW'ing and has been reported if the pause ads really bother a person their are workarounds to eliminate them.

If you really want to know what people think just ask a Tivo buyer if they'd go the same route again and then ask a DTVPal owner. That's a statistic I'd love to see
Sounds like a nice idea for a AVS poll.......
 
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