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So when is the BEEB going to get a 4k server so I subscribe to BBC1/BBC2? I wouldn't mind dropping $50 for a channel, they have some good stuff and I don't feel like opting for a dish...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Although that thread is mostly BS & RJ bickering, the point is Tivo users are PAYING for their subscription. And they PAID for their unit.


OK, Replay has pause ads, but it's free.


To actually record something on my machine, without my permission, without prior notice, and without the ability to delete is just over-the-top on principle.


No Tivos for me.
 

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The ReplayTV service is not free you just pay for it at the same time you purchase the box.


Actually the 4K has the potential to do similar things without interfering with recording. It could download the data over the internet. Although 30 min would in my opinion be excessive even as an mp4. If you listen to some of the rhetoric from the corporate types at SonicBlue this is not out of the relm of possibility. Although with the 4500 series using dial up this would be a little tricky.


I don't mind the bickering in the other thread that much (as long as it was on the subject).
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by KenL
Another compelling reason to have a TiVo. :rolleyes:
Wow, for once I agree with what KenL said. If this makes TiVo money, does not take any of my recording space, does not force me to view it then I think it is a great thing. I hope TiVo comes up with additional ways to make money so that they can eventually reduce or eliminate their subscription fee altogether.


Just like TiVo suggestions, this is a feature that you do not have to use. Nothing that you want to record will not be recorded because of this, it is just an enhanced promo that I can choose to ignore.


/carmi
 

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I have thought about this issue a little more, and have come to the conclusion that although these recordings have not affected me (I don't watch live tv much at all, and when I do I typically channel-surf which would prevent these recordings from taking place), Tivo should offer an official "opt-out" option, like they do for the anonymous data gathering. Also, it would help in the PR arena if they had sent a message to folks, explaining the details of what was going to happen...
 

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Most definitely they should explain what's going on to their customers. If they restricted this to late at night and offered something in return they would probably have more people opt in.


One thing they could do is make exclusive offers to Tivo subscribers. Just embed a promo code in the program and use some hash function with the serial number to create a unique promo code for each box so someone would have to watch the program to get the code.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by BrettStah
Not a bad response, Montezuma! :)
This is unbelievable. Monte says:
Quote:
It's really a great feature. You're not forced to watch it. It doesn't use up any of your space for recording.
and Brett thinks it's a good response. Let's take a look at this:


1. Your TiVo unit automatically records shows because and advertiser paid them to make you record it. The only way out is to have something else scheduled or to be watching live TV at the time of the recording.


2. Once the show has been recorded, you cannot delete it for one week. You don't have to watch it, but at the same time you can't delete it.


3. It is stored in a disk partition that the TiVo operating system has reserved for advertisements and won't allow you to use, so your recording time has been decreased for a while by their decision to include this capacity in their software.


How is any of this good? Wouldn't you rather watch what you want, when you want to watch it? If so, wouldn't you rather have the TiVo record only what you want? Wouldn't you rather TiVo let you use your entire hard disk (except the portions necessary for OS) rather than reserving a sizeable chunk for advertisements?


It's unbelievable how some of us (both TiVo and ReplayTV enthusiasts) allow our judgement to be so clouded that we lose all perspective on reality (which is evidenced by ReplayTV users in the large number of votes against the ToDo list in that silly poll and by TiVo users in arguments like this one)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by richierich



This is unbelievable. Monte says: and Brett thinks it's a good response. Let's take a look at this:
Sarcasm is so much funnier when some one doesn't get it. ;)


Read through the thread in my link above. I'm amazed me and BrettStah seemed to arrive at a consensus on the issue. Let's face it the days of millions of people simultaneously sitting in front of the tube watching ads go by is over. Marketing is a necessary part of the economy. New methods of adervtising will have to be developed. Hopefully Tivo and others learned a few thing about what not to do.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by BrettStah
I have thought about this issue a little more, and have come to the conclusion that although these recordings have not affected me (I don't watch live tv much at all, and when I do I typically channel-surf which would prevent these recordings from taking place), Tivo should offer an official "opt-out" option, like they do for the anonymous data gathering. Also, it would help in the PR arena if they had sent a message to folks, explaining the details of what was going to happen...
Glad you changed your mind!


Awhile ago there was an exchange between you and another poster (not me) in which a link was given to an earlier quote of yours claiming to be unbiased in your opinions of competing DVR's. When called about that statement you admitted those opinions had changed over time.


I can't locate the exchange. Do you remember it?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by richierich



This is unbelievable. Monte says: and Brett thinks it's a good response.
Some people just don't get humor these days, eh Montezuma? :)
Quote:


Let's take a look at this:


1. Your TiVo unit automatically records shows because and advertiser paid them to make you record it. The only way out is to have something else scheduled or to be watching live TV at the time of the recording.
My thinking here is that I'm not using the Tivo's tuner at that time anyway, so what's the big deal? As long as my stuff that I told it to record gets recorded, and nothing gets deleted for this recording to fit, I just don't see why I should get worked up over it. (But I do realize that some are completely turned off by this concept, and therefore Tivo should give them the option to not receive these extra recordings).
Quote:
2. Once the show has been recorded, you cannot delete it for one week. You don't have to watch it, but at the same time you can't delete it.
Well, that's not technically true, but I also realize that some folks still want to be able to delete it just as easily as other recordings, so what the heck, I wouldn't see the harm in Tivo changing that either. (Man, at this rate of changing my mind on a Tivo topic, I'll be on KenL's buddy list in no time! :))
Quote:


3. It is stored in a disk partition that the TiVo operating system has reserved for advertisements and won't allow you to use, so your recording time has been decreased for a while by their decision to include this capacity in their software.
My recording time has not decreased at all. In fact, the opposite is true. My 30 hour Tivo can hold over 32 hours of programming now, which is about 2 hours more than when I first bought it. Plus the implementation of VBR has increased the capacity at the better quality levels, often by 10% or more. They advertised it as a 30 hour model, and as long as it can fit at least 30 hours of my stuff, it doesn't make much difference to me what is partitioned for other purposes.
Quote:


How is any of this good? Wouldn't you rather watch what you want, when you want to watch it?
That's exactly what I do. Also, consider this... what if you or someone in your family was a huge Sheryl Crow fan, or imagine if one of your favorite groups had a new video recorded automatically during a time you weren't using your PVR anyway. Or movie trailers for some movie you really wanted to see, etc. Maybe it wouldn't be as big of a deal for some people (maybe not you) if they actually liked the content more.
Quote:
If so, wouldn't you rather have the TiVo record only what you want?
I don't have enough things for it to record 24 hours each day. It definitely records every single thing I tell it to record (within the obvious limitations of the number of available tuners). I do have the Tivo Suggestions feature enabled, so during parts of the day when a Tivo's tuner isn't being used, it will record stuff that it thinks I (or someone in my family) would like. It's extremely accurate on my Tivos (although to be honest we barely find time to watch the stuff we explicitly told them to record).
Quote:
Wouldn't you rather TiVo let you use your entire hard disk (except the portions necessary for OS) rather than reserving a sizeable chunk for advertisements?
Well, like I said above, I get the 30 hours of recording time they advertised (plus an extra couple of hours now). As far as how sizeable this chunk is at all times, I don't know... I've seen in the Tivo Underground forum talk of how during upgrades to the software they temporarily need more space in order to be able to recover if the upgrade fails (by reverting to the older version).
Quote:
It's unbelievable how some of us (both TiVo and ReplayTV enthusiasts) allow our judgement to be so clouded that we lose all perspective on reality (which is evidenced by ReplayTV users in the large number of votes against the ToDo list in that silly poll and by TiVo users in arguments like this one)
I try to maintain at least a tenous link to reality! :) I can see how some of the Replay features would be nice to have (while still preferring the Tivo features overall), and many Replay owners can do the reverse.


Maybe it boils down to a difference in how we look at PVRs... I look at it as a way to have a lot of choices available to me when I have time to watch TV. I have a decent number of "don't want to miss it" shows and movies that I find time to watch, and the rest falls into categories like "heard that movie was pretty good", "wouldn't mind seeing that again", "if I feel like watching a comedy". If I don't have time to watch these types of recordings, it's not a big deal, because I always have tons of things that fall into the same category. So, having a music video downloaded due to some advertisement deal with Best Buy just gives me one more thing to choose from (with the big caveat that it not be a higher priority recording than anything else I've scheduled to record).
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by BrettStah

Some people just don't get humor these days, eh Montezuma? :)

My thinking here is that I'm not using the Tivo's tuner at that time anyway, so what's the big deal? As long as my stuff that I told it to record gets recorded, and nothing gets deleted for this recording to fit, I just don't see why I should get worked up over it. (But I do realize that some are completely turned off by this concept, and therefore Tivo should give them the option to not receive these extra recordings).
I'm not using one of my cars this evening. I don't think I'd want FoMoCo to come along and make use of my carefully preserved Lincoln as a wedding vehicle; even if they replaced the gas used. How might I put a price on mileage? What about wear and tear on the engine/tranny/interior? Was the vehicle used responsibly? Would my insurance company agree?


I'm calling the cops!


Regards,

Warren
 

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BrettStah enjoys pulling people's chains and likes to spout off about TiVo. He's quite canny and uses links and/or references or the absense of same to his advantage.


If anyone followed the link to Otto's backdoor codes and the disclaimer posted early in it s/he can see that backdoors is not a realistic answer to modify TiVo for the average user. Enabling TiVo's 30 sec. QS is actually not a backdoors code but is perhaps the most widely used code on Otto's list.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...threadid=26530


Reserved space for ads isn't the real problem. TiVo provides its advertised capacity regardless. (Indeed using the VBR option allows TiVo to often exceed its advertised capacity.)


The real problem is conflicts between what TiVo, Inc. wants to record if the user wants to record something else at the same time. The real problem is annoying a user with a "must respond to" message regarding changing channels and dumping the recording buffer if a user is watching live TV. Heretofore annoyances caused by such messages could be eliminated by disabling "Suggestions".


The real problem is TiVo appears to have an agenda which is annoying many of its users.


TiVo, Inc. prides itself on responding to user complaints whenever reasonable to do so. Now is the time to ***** about TiVo's unwanted programming!


Of course there's always the option of buying a ReplayTV if only they weren't so expensive.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by arjay


The real problem is conflicts between what TiVo, Inc. wants to record if the user wants to record something else at the same time.
I believe in case of a head on conflict TiVo would record the user's original recording instead of the promo. I wonder if that would remain true if there was any overlap between the two recordings?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by arjay



I believe in case of a head on conflict TiVo would record the user's original recording instead of the promo. I wonder if that would remain true if there was any overlap between the two recordings?
arjay, you're starting to quote yourself... KenL is rubbing off on you! :)


Only 2 of my Tivos recorded the Sheryl Crow video, so apparently any overlap with explicit recordings prevents these things from recording. And if Tivo ever skipped one of my recordings to record a suggestion or "extra" recording like a video, I'd be the first one ticked off about it, to say the least.


I would not be surprised, due to a combination of complaints by a vocal percentage of users, and some negative PR, to see Tivo initiate an "opt out" option for this feature. (By the way, if they do, I've found calls early in the morning to Tivo's customer support to be the best time to call... I've only waited on hold for a minute or two the last two times I called).
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by BrettStah
arjay, you're starting to quote yourself...
I'm a stickler for accuracy and for references. I quoted myself to correct a significant error in my previous post.
 

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Y'know, I really can't say that I find the idea objectionable. The recording is using space which is reserved for that type of feature, it's recording when you're not using the box, so what's the problem?


I find myself increasingly angry at the networks morons who think that running a show for half a season in five different time slots is an effective way to determine if people like the show. If they're going to persist in this stupidity of not allowing a show time enough for the actors to even figure out their characters and for the viewers to figure out when it's on, then maybe this type of system could offer a solution.


"Sponsor" placement of one of the new shows on the box, and expand the system to add a feedback channel to the network (Opt-In, of course) so that people could tell them (maybe with a Thumbs Up) if they like the show.
 
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