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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

I am just finalizing my dedicated HT in my upstairs media room. My question is about a missing 20 Hz. I have 3 Paradigm Millinia 30's for my right left and center. These are wall mounted speakers look great and fit my space. The issue is they only go down to 110 Hz and my HSU VTF-1 MK2 sub only goes up to 90 Hz. I am thinking of getting a MBM to cover the mid bass.

 

I am wondering how the Audyssey Sub EQ HT will handle these different subs and if tuning the two different subs is out of my league. What is the best suggestion on how to configure a true sub and a MBM using Audyssey Sub EQ H? Is it worth it? Should I just stick with two identical HSU subs?

 

My Equipment
  • L/C/R Paradigm Millinia 30 - Frequency Response ±2 dB from 110 Hz - 18 kHz
  • Rear Paradigm Surround 3 - Frequency Response ±2dB from 90 Hz - 20 kHz
  • Denon AVR-X4000 with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and Sub EQ HT

 

Sub Option 1
  • 2 HSU Reasearch VTF-1 MK2 Subwoofers - 30 - 90 Hz, Bypassable

 

Sub Option 2
  • 1 HSU Reasearch VTF-1 MK2 Subwoofers - 30 - 90 Hz, Bypassable
  • 1 HSU Reasearch MBM-12 MK2 Mid-Bass Module - 50 - 150 Hz, Bypassable

 

 

 

The layout of my theater is below.



 



 

 

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Your subs are rated by HSU as 25-200hz +-2db in ported mode. What you are listing is the crossover, which in your case you would bypass and set it in your AVR. So 2 VFT2s would be the better choice of those 2.
 

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Lol, you are phrasing your problem in a peculiar way, it makes it sound like you are missing the 20 Hz frequency exactly. First of all, you don't have much to worry about as far as missing bass goes, because you will want to turn off the sub's crossover and use the crossover in the receiver. The sub will play flat well over 110 Hz with its crossover defeated. That solves that problem. However, the sub does become localized when you use above 80 hz crossovers. It might be worth getting another VTF1 just to balance the sound stage.
 

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I would get matching dual subs and cross them at 100/110/120 and see what sounds the best.  Localization should not be too bad since they will both be up front and close to your mains.

 

I can cross at 120 without localization with my sub in the front corner, but I can locate my nearfield sub at this crossover.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

That makes sense now. I guess I was looking at it the wrong way. 

 

Should I turn off both sub crossovers and use the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 function to tune all the settings? Is the best place for the two subs up front in the corners?

 

I was also thining of going with 1 VTF-15H Subwoofer 15". Would this be better than two smaller VTF-2 MK4 12"?

 

Thanks for all the help!!!!

 

Marc
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcfarmen  /t/1521467/to-mid-bass-module-or-not-to-mbm-missing-20-hz-help#post_24452989

 

That makes sense now. I guess I was looking at it the wrong way. 

 

Should I turn off both sub crossovers and use the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 function to tune all the settings? Is the best place for the two subs up front in the corners?

 

I was also thining of going with 1 VTF-15H Subwoofer 15". Would this be better than two smaller VTF-2 MK4 12"?

 

Thanks for all the help!!!!

 

Marc
Well, two VTF-2 MK4 would be a pretty decent dual sub setup, and spread out, could give you smoother bass response throughout the room.  Without looking up output on HSU's website, I am guessing one VTF15 would have as much or more output than two VTF2's.  The bigger difference however, is that the VTF15 would dig deeper.  Long term, this would also give you the option of upgrading to dual VTF15's, which should provide many years of subwoofer bliss.  You might end up with the upgrade bug if you go with two VTF2's.  I bumped my subwoofer level up several notches to make sure I would not be eager to upgrade in 6 months or a year.  Would not hurt to give Dr Hsu a call with your room dimensions and ask his opinion.
 

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Agreed, a VTF15h will give you a tad more output, but two VTF2s will give you more even and smoother bass and better coverage for multiple seating positions. Given your speakers, I would definitely go for dual subs. You might also think about eventually upgrading your speakers to some which have more dynamic range and deeper bass extension. Dual VTF2 or a VTF15h would have a lot more dynamic range than those speakers, and its kinda uneven. Its like having a sports car with a high end racing tires for the rear wheels but spare tires from a Hyundai Elantra for the front wheels.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

I know, I am kicking my self for committing to the Millenia 30's. At $850.00 a speaker for looks is a mistake on my part. This is my first dedicated space for a HT and I am leaning a lot. I am considering ditching the 3 Millenia 30's and going with all HSU front speakers and doing a acoustically transparent screen. Hiding everything behind would give me the same clean look with better sound.

 

My wife is getting a little sick of weekends hearing about my obsessions around sound and my HT upstairs. Changing now might throw her over the edge. If I did go with another option for my front 3 mains, what do you all suggest? I want to stay as tight as I can to the wall as the space is not all that big. I have struggled with this and that is why I chose the Millenia 30's in the beginning. At this point I have only purchased a single Millenia 30 and have not committed to the other 2 or my surrounds. The space is wired for 7.2 but I figure I will start with 5.2.

 

I have 6,000 for speakers and subs. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

Marc

 

Here is a picture of the rear where my surrounds will go. Also take a look at my DIY theater plaques post, I am trying to look like I know what I am doing! :)  http://www.avsforum.com/t/1519650/diy-home-theater-plaques

 

 

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Looking at your front, and considering your budget, I would go with floorstanding speakers for asthetics and sound, rather than bookshelves.  Most(many?) good quality bookshelf speakers are rear ported, so mounting them to a wall is not the best option.  Regardless, mounting speakers flush to a wall is bad for acoustics in general.  So then you would end up putting the bookshelves on stands.....at that point just use floorstanders which will look better in my opinion.  

 

Given the size of your budget, here are the sub combinations I would recommend you consider:

 

Dual PSA XV15

Dual PSA XS30

Dual HSU VTF3.4

Dual HSU VTF15

Dual SVS PB2000

Dual SVS PB12 Plus

Dual Rythmik FV15HP

 

Those are all great subs that will rock your home theater with authority..all are a substantial step up from the small HSU's initially mentioned.  Cost here ranges from $1500-2500, leaving 3500-4500 for your speaker budget.  I bought HSU bookshelf speakers for my setup, so I don't have good advice to offer you on the rest of your speakers.  My HSU's sound great but again I think you would be better served with good floorstanders.  For surrounds, I personally do prefer bipoles such as the ones offered by EMP tek or fluance, in large part for asthetics due to the way they are made.   With their angled design, they look better hanging on the walls than a big box.  They also create a large diffuse soundfield for surround effects but not everyone agrees with this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Thank you so much for the advice. Every time I post and read, I end up changing my mind. At some point I need to just pull the trigger and make the purchases. My house will not be finished for another 3 weeks so again I am rethinking my approach. 

 

I guess I have to go wake my wife up and inform her we are now going with new LCF!!!! 

 

I will post her reaction!

 

Thanks again for all the advice.

 

Marc
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Will the VTF-3 MK4 Subwoofer side firing design be strange against one of my walls? Or would I face both 12 inch drivers towards the room?

 

Marc
 

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I would not rush your decision especially given your budget.  The more time you take to make the right choice, the more likely you are to be happy long term with your decision.  Nothing worse than thinking "what if" shortly after you make your purchase.  I think it won't make a huge difference either way, but facing a wall can help mask distortion I think.  Also, I would not be dead set on placing both subs up front.  Be open to placing one behind that chair or in the back corner to see what it does to your response.  If up front is perfect, great.

 

Oh, as one of MANY options available to you with your budget, I think these are well rated, look good, and waaay below your budget:

 

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRT/srt.html

 

Also Paradigm monitor 11:

 

http://www.paradigm.com/products-current/type=tower/model=monitor-11/page=overview
 

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The direction of the woofer won't affect the sound that much, you could have it aimed at the wall just fine. You would want to leave a little room between the woofer or ports and the wall, about three inches should do the trick. Hsu makes good speakers, the HB-1s, but in a $6k budget you can do a bit better. Some Ascend Sierras would be good, however I would go for the bookshelf speakers. You just don't need towers when you are using good subs, as the bass extension towers have will not be used since a subwoofer is covering that range. Something else that would be good is some Philharmonitor bookshelf and center. Actually the ideal is to use identical speakers for all three front stage speakers, so if your setup can accommodate that, I would go for a bookshelf speaker for the center as well as left and right.


If the speakers do not have to look nice, you might consider some pro audio monitors, and in that vein I would look at either Mackie HR824 mk2 monitors or Emotiva Stealth 8 s. The Mackies are actually THX pm3 certified, which means their performance is good enough that you could actually make THX soundtracks on them, not just playback, which is a very high bar of performance. If that interests you, don't wait too long to pick up some of those, they are in stock now but they don't usually stay in stock long. The Emotivas look great too, a very good set of measurements for those guys, and I am sure they would be knockout home theater speakers as well as accurate monitors.


If you are looking for a THX reference level volumes, like an honest to god Imax theater, a couple good choices for that would be some JTR Single 8 s or some Pi Three s. There are some upgrade options for the Pi speakers, and I would go get the upgraded compression driver and woofer on those. Either the Pis or the JTRs will have crazy dynamics, we are talking bigger-than-life theater sound. If you aren't looking for reference level dynamics, they would be overkill, but they would still sound good. The measurements for the Pi Threes are just terrific .


As for surround speakers, I would make it simple and get some of these JBL 8320 s. They are inexpensive, easy to mount, easy to drive for any AVR, and are also the least expensive THX certified speaker that I know of.


I would emphasize at this level you really ought to get two subs. What's extra nice is your AVR is one of the few that can independently calibrate dual subs, which saves a lot of time and hassle. You would still want to find optimal placement for the subs though, but there are ways of doing that which make it pretty easy.
 
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