Get an exclusive sneak peek into our new project. >>> Click Here
Our native mobile app has a new name: Fora Communities. Learn more.

Too much bass in dialog

6601 Views 40 Replies 15 Participants Last post by Soulburner, Aug 3, 2021

Anthonyt22

Discussion Starter · Jul 9, 2021

How do i avoid having too much bass in dialog? Ive been playing with the bass settings but i cant seem to get crisp clear dialog regardless of what i do.
setup:
yamaha tsr-700
Speakers are all klipsch
Fronts: bi amped rp-280fa (not using atmos right now)
Center: Rp-450c
Surrounds: rb-75

i would use the atmos speakers but im not sure i have enough power in this system, it doesnt exactly blow me away and it seems very lacking in midbass

this is how the crossover is set, it doesnt allow me to raise the center crossover any higher

See less See more

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

Leeliemix

· #2 · Jul 9, 2021

Sub?
Speakers set small/large and crossovers?
Placement and room in general?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Reactions: 1

Anthonyt22

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jul 9, 2021

2

The sub is svs pb-13 ultra (the one with the 1000w built in amp, not the 800)

excuse the mess, im gradually working on improving my setup while i wait to build a new theater room

Leeliemix said:
Sub?
Speakers set small/large and crossovers?
Placement and room in general?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

See less See more

swgiust

· #4 · Jul 9, 2021

The cross over on the center is to high. You are sending alot of mid bass to the sub which will play louder than the center.
Set all your crossovers at 80.

Reactions: 3

Anthonyt22

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jul 9, 2021

What about the fronts? They default at 40 hz and im not sure i can change that

Alan P

· #6 · Jul 9, 2021

Yeah, why are your center and surrounds crossed over at 200Hz? That is ridiculously high for your size speakers. Is that where YPAO set them??

You are getting too much bass in voices because your crossover is above the lower range of voices. Set them all to 80Hz and give it a listen, should be much, much better.

Reactions: 2

Alan P

· #7 · Jul 9, 2021

Anthonyt22 said:
What about the fronts? They default at 40 hz and im not sure i can change that

It would be very unusual if you couldn't change the crossover on all speakers.

EDIT: See the manual here.

Reactions: 1

Anthonyt22

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jul 9, 2021

Thank you both so much for your info! Alan,what size speakers would get a higher crossover? How can i get a better understanding of what crossovers should be set to for future reference?

Alan P

· #9 · Jul 9, 2021

The best way to determine what crossovers your speakers need in your room is by running your AVR's auto-setup routine, in your case YPAO.

Generally, the smaller the speaker, the higher the crossover.

Reactions: 2

Leeliemix

· #10 · Jul 9, 2021

Anthonyt22 said:
Thank you both so much for your info! Alan,what size speakers would get a higher crossover? How can i get a better understanding of what crossovers should be set to for future reference?

Very roughly bookshelves 80-120Hz depending. Towers usually 60-80Hz. Centers vary a lot(60-120Hz) but yours is big so probably 80Hz. 80Hz is pretty standard and is usually a good starting point unless the speakers are very small in size.

If you boost the bass a lot voices can get boomy, especially deep male voices because the lower parts overlap into the sub domain. By a lot i dont mean just a few dB unless there is something else also boosting the bass some, like “Dynamic EQ”.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Reactions: 1

RayGuy

· #11 · Jul 9, 2021 (Edited)

The sub a boomy nightmare? If it's turned up post-Audyssey, or you are using Dynamic anything mode, then the bass is being artificially inflated, ruining the response of the center. As mentioned, set the crossover to 80 on all the speakers and see how it goes from there (and turn off Dynamic Whatever Mode!

Also, the center needs to be placed at the very front of the stand it is on. Otherwise you get immediate reflections off the top of the stand, which can increase the muddiness you are experiencing.

Lastly, the sub may be positioned just fine for looks, but may not be well-placed for sound quality. You want to place the sub where it creates the most EVEN bass response, not where it creates the loudest bass (which is usually a corner).

Anthonyt22

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jul 9, 2021

Okay, the setup guide suggested setting the subwoofer to the maximum crossover point. I set it to 125 hz, is this correct knowing that all my speakers are at 80?

right now the voices are still muddy

Anthonyt22

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jul 9, 2021 (Edited)

I figured it out

YPAO Volume is the culprit
I disabled this feature and i was rewarded with instant clarity
It might not be perfect yet but the difference is night and day

Edit: that fixed the voices but actually took away just about allllll of the bass

See less See more

Ratman

· #14 · Jul 9, 2021

Darned manuals/instructions.

Reactions: 1

m. zillch

· #15 · Jul 9, 2021 (Edited)

Speaking in generalities, not necessarily applicabile to this situation: People who set their subwoofer levels based on what sounds best to their ear on music/movies rather than what instrumentation says is accurate, often find dialog sounds boomy.

"One note" subs exacerbate the issue.
---

"Extra bass" , aka LFE + Main, is wrong for everyone seeking faithful, accurate frequency response curves because it inherently introduces an artificial mid frequency hump in the lower octaves where the sub(s) and mains reproduction ranges overlap.

Ideally all frequencies should be reproduced at the same level. If, for example, 30Hz is reproduced by just by the sub, yet 60Hz is reproduced by both the sub and the main speakers, [because the user has selected "extra bass" (aka "both" or "LFE + Main", depending on the brand)] then 60Hz is playing at an artifically pumped up level compared to 30Hz because it enters the room from multiple locations, and the sound will be boomy yet not smooth and deep. If the listener attempts to fix the boom by lowering the sub then they'll miss out on the deep 30Hz content.

See less See more

Reactions: 3

swgiust

· #16 · Jul 9, 2021

It may sound like there is less bass, but that is because you had a boom box not a sub. Set all of you speakers to small. set the cross over to 80. level the volume across all speakers. what you will have is a correctly sounding set up.

Reactions: 4

Ratman

· #17 · Jul 9, 2021

As always.... it depends.
Reading and experimentation usually works best for an individual's room/equipment and aural preference(s).

Reactions: 1

Anthonyt22

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jul 9, 2021

m. zillch said:
Speaking in generalities, not necessarily applicabile to this situation: People who set their subwoofer levels based on what sounds best to their ear on music/movies rather than what instrumentation says is accurate, often find dialog sounds boomy.

"One note" subs exacerbate the issue.
---

"Extra bass" , aka LFE + Main, is wrong for everyone seeking faithful, accurate frequency response curves because it inherently introduces an artificial mid frequency hump in the lower octaves where the sub(s) and mains reproduction ranges overlap.

Ideally all frequencies should be reproduced at the same level. If, for example, 30Hz is reproduced by just by the sub, yet 60Hz is reproduced by both the sub and the main speakers, [because the user has selected "extra bass" (aka "both" or "LFE + Main", depending on the brand)] then 60Hz is playing at an artifically pumped up level compared to 30Hz because it enters the room from multiple locations, and the sound will be boomy yet not smooth and deep. If the listener attempts to fix the boom by lowering the sub then they'll miss out on the deep 30Hz content.

so does this mean my sub should not be crossed over at 125? I should set it to 80 so that the mains and the other speakers take over at 80 hz and above?

Leeliemix

· #19 · Jul 9, 2021

Anthonyt22 said:
so does this mean my sub should not be crossed over at 125? I should set it to 80 so that the mains and the other speakers take over at 80 hz and above?

If you mean the LPF for LFE that should stay at the default 120Hz.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Reactions: 1

Ratman

· #20 · Jul 9, 2021

Anthonyt22 said:
so does this mean my sub should not be crossed over at 125? I should set it to 80 so that the mains and the other speakers take over at 80 hz and above?

That's a start.

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.