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Hello everyone



I'm sort of in a dilemma, i am in the hunt for my first HDTV but need some help. i pretty much narrowed my search to some tvs and now i need AVS help.


LCD- Samsung A650,A750, Sony W4100,XBR6


Plasma- Panasonic PZ85U


Ok the reason i cant decide is because i wont be hooking up any cable to it, its mainly going to be a Bluray(PS3) tv with abit of gaming (PS3 and Xbox 360)

and after some visits to bestbuy and etc.. i came up with this:

LCD

*Razorsharp images

*Bright, actually too bright

*very colorful

*120hz is just WOW

*No image retention or Burn-in

Plasma

*realist color and brightness

*seems image isnt going through alot of processing

*blacks(been reseaching )

*way less lag

*Image retention, not worried about burn-in though


I clearly saw the panasonic had the more realistic, easy to the eye picture and motion was just right, the only thing lcd has is the slimmer size and no IR.


I really want to get the Plasma but i want to know is abit of gaming is bad. I'm talking about maybe 2-3hours a day and max 5-7hrs weekend.

The rest is all bluray and cable later down the road.


The panasonic is better than the LCDs right?


btw the size range im looking at is 40-46. 40" for LCD because of price and 46" for the plasma because i can get it for cheaper than the LCDs.


*
 

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I would take razorsharpness off the list for LCd because plasma is just as sharp of an image. If not sharper because of its higher contrast in most cases.


Also, I would take 120hz off the list because that 120hz is nothing compared to the motion responce of a plasma. 120hz is not something that makes all TV's better, it is only to try to cover LCD's bad motion performance.

Plasma does not need 120hz.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 /forum/post/15458295


I would take razorsharpness off the list for LCd because plasma is just as sharp of an image. If not sharper because of its higher contrast in most cases.

Really? I've been viewing a LOT of Panasonic plasmas lately, and one of the few things I didn't like about 'em was the slightly soft picture.


Pioneers are better in this regard, but still not quite as obviously sharp as the best LCDs I've seen.


I guess you could argue that the LCDs that are razor sharp get that way unfairly/artificially due to image processing (i.e. edge sharpening), but even so, they are incredibly sharp.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SystemShock2 /forum/post/15458611


Really? I've been viewing a LOT of Panasonic plasmas lately, and one of the few things I didn't like about 'em was the slightly soft picture.


Pioneers are better in this regard, but still not quite as obviously sharp as the best LCDs I've seen.


I guess you could argue that the LCDs that are razor sharp get that way unfairly/artificially due to image processing (i.e. edge sharpening), but even so, they are incredibly sharp.

well you culd always get a plasma and crank up the edge enhansement/sharpness if that is your cup of tea.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SystemShock2 /forum/post/15458611


I guess you could argue that the LCDs that are razor sharp get that way unfairly/artificially due to image processing (i.e. edge sharpening), but even so, they are incredibly sharp.

LCD's are just better.


Its really an easy choice.
 

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go for the panny...the 85u is a solid tv. youll never have to worry about uneven backlighting, or off angle viewing problems. and once you pop in a blu-ray or game...you'll be plenty surprised how much sharper it is then the image that the B&M stores pass through all their tv's
 

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I've inadvertantly stepped into the middle of a jihad here, haven't I?
 

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Definitely plasma. Panasonic is better than Samsung. I have had Samsung tv's before. Two exactly. One blew up during a movie viewing with eight friends two days after I bought it(very embarrasing) the second lasted only 3 years. Luckly I had Best buys warranty and they gave me full value to pick out new TV because after three attempts they could not fix it. If you watch action movies plasma is a lot better than LCD(lcd cannot keep up on fast scenes) and the blacks are twice as good on Plasmas. Don't forget, plasmas take 100 hours to break in. After that the picture gets a lot better so don't get disappointed when you first get it home. After the 100 hour calibrate the tv!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 /forum/post/15458650


well you culd always get a plasma and crank up the edge enhansement/sharpness if that is your cup of tea.

No, artificial EE does not make up for sharpness of pixels. You will just end up with ugly outlines around the edges of things.


The other problem with plasmas is the rather ugly dithering that they do in lower brightness areas. It looks like a moving grainyness. I think they do this because the gas must be exited to a certain level to emit any light. To get around the lack of the ability to go below a certain threshold they use dithering to simulate lower values. If you sit back far enough you may not notice though and it may not be an issue.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SystemShock2 /forum/post/15458611


Really? I've been viewing a LOT of Panasonic plasmas lately, and one of the few things I didn't like about 'em was the slightly soft picture.


Pioneers are better in this regard, but still not quite as obviously sharp as the best LCDs I've seen.


I guess you could argue that the LCDs that are razor sharp get that way unfairly/artificially due to image processing (i.e. edge sharpening), but even so, they are incredibly sharp.

LCDs are sharp because of the discreetness of each pixel. There is no pixel blooming that you get with a plasma gas being exited around an electrode.


I doubt most would notice this watching a movie from a distance though.


The LCD sharpness is because of the technology, it isn't artificial. I guess this is why there are no plasma computer monitors (other than the fact that they burn-in too easily).
 

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^^ lcd's have dithering to
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetthal /forum/post/15458197


Hello everyone



I'm sort of in a dilemma, i am in the hunt for my first HDTV but need some help. i pretty much narrowed my search to some tvs and now i need AVS help.


LCD- Samsung A650,A750, Sony W4100,XBR6


Plasma- Panasonic PZ85U


Ok the reason i cant decide is because i wont be hooking up any cable to it, its mainly going to be a Bluray(PS3) tv with abit of gaming (PS3 and Xbox 360)

*

I would stay away from plasma if you will do any gaming on it. This is because you will get bad burn-in with any gaming HUDs, stats etc that stay fixed on the screen for extended periods.


To those that will say plasmas don't burn-in anymore than what is the "break-in" period? The "break-in" period is the time where the screen looses alot of it's brightness. Burn-in is just some areas that are on longer (like a game stat) losing more brightness than the areas that aren't. You don't hear of any break in periods with an LCD because they won't burn-in and lose brightness depending on pixel use.


They both have drawbacks:


Plasma:


Burn-in with static images.

dithering on lower brightness values.

Shorter lifespan.

Dimmer.


LCD:


Slower response time.

Less viewing angle.

Not as good black level.

More expensive.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by memphis87 /forum/post/15459507


^^ lcd's have dithering to

Not if the source material doesn't. Plasma adds its own. Do you see dithering on computer images on your monitor? Ever loaded up a paint program? all of the lower values do NOT have any dithering, they are solid unless you have a defective screen.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SystemShock2 /forum/post/15458697


I've inadvertantly stepped into the middle of a jihad here, haven't I?

No you're being objective.


You just stated a simple truth.


Your emotions aren't invested into your TV.


Its this simple.
 

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Both LCD and Plasmas are rated at about 60,000 hours. That would be having your tv on 24/7 for almost 7 years so I would not worry about longevity of the screens.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC19 /forum/post/15459547


Not if the source material doesn't. Plasma adds its own. Do you see dithering on computer images on your monitor? Ever loaded up a paint program? all of the lower values do NOT have any dithering, they are solid unless you have a defective screen.

some lcd's use Temporal Dithering
 

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I was in a similar boat, choosing between plasmas and LCD, with IR and gaming as a large concern. In the end, I went plasma (Samsung 50A550) and couldn't be happier. I was reasonably (but not extremely) careful during the first hundred hours, and now game relatively often with no lasting IR to speak of, even with games having a static HUD. If IR is your major concern (as it was with me), believe me that it's much less of an issue under real-world use than some folks on this forum would have you believe.


In addition, having lived with the picture for a few weeks, I now much prefer the smooth, natural look of plasma to the harshness of LCD. Obviously this is strictly a preference, but I'm definitely a plasma convert.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by memphis87 /forum/post/15459744


some lcd's use Temporal Dithering

Some may but not any I have seen or used. If you stay with any of the decent brands you won't have it. I have an Xbox 360 connected to a 32" Bravia LCD through VGA and there is zero dither/grain in darker/shadow areas. This is not inherent in the technology like it is with plasma.


ALL plasmas do this and it is very distracting in games.


More here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post14327102
 

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Let me tell you my story:


I bought a house in Aug. , moved in Sept. 2nd.

I sold my old TV before moving into my new house.

I was pretty set on getting an LCD , I simply wanted

an LCD , I did not even give plasmas a look because

I did'nt want one.


I did a short critical viewing of around 5 LCDs and ended

up choosing a Sony 46Z4100. After a few months

with the Sony I found a few things I did not like

about it.


#1 The viewing angles are poor, I am not talking 40

degrees off axis because all my seating is in front of the

set. Just by moving from one side of the sofa to the other

was enough to degrade the picture to some degree.

Not a huge change but I feel that the picture should be

100% consistant with a 10-15 degree move off axis.

Lay down on the sofa? Forget it.

That was the #1 thing that I did not like about it.



#2 Blacks were decent enough for me with the lights on,

well they were still on the grey side but ambient light

helps the blacks seem blacker.

Turn the lights out so you have a dark room and the

blacks were terrible, I mean so bad that I would not

watch it with the lights off ... well I might watch the news

or something in the dark but never movies.






One day in Circuit City I saw an 800 series Panasonic in action

and gave it a test drive in the store.

Wow , I thought! Why did I not give plasmas a look!

Holy Cow , this thing blew away my Sony Z series.


So I came back to AVS, I had not visited AVS on a regular

basis since 04' or so.


Long story short. I bought a Pioneer Elite PRO-151FD plasma.


#1 After having it several days I finally sat down for a critical viewing.

tears of joy came when I saw the depth of blacks...I mean

seriously, I had to get a napkin to wipe em off.

OMG I could hardly believe what I was seeing!

Without question this is the best TV I have ever seen.



Now I realize not everyone can afford what I bought but

if I could not have gotten the Pioneer id go grab that

800 series Panasnic. The Panasonic blew away my Sony as well.


Yes I wish I would have given Plasmas a look back in Sept 08'

cause id have saved alot of money.


I sold the Sony Z series and the stand I bought for it for a $1500 loss.


But really I don't mind so much because I learned alot and now know that

I have the best PQ that money can buy PERIOD.




What I recommend you do is go to a few different stores and take some

time viewing alot of different TVs , both plasma and LCD .

What is important is that YOU are happy with whatever you buy

there are many fine LCDs and Plasmas to choose from.


Good Luck
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC19 /forum/post/15459999


Some may but not any I have seen or used. If you stay with any of the decent brands you won't have it. I have an Xbox 360 connected to a 32" Bravia LCD through VGA and there is zero dither/grain in darker/shadow areas. This is not inherent in the technology like it is with plasma.

ALL plasmas do this and it is very distracting in games.


More here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post14327102

How many plasmas have you played games on? My plasma exhibits no dithering, at least nothing I can discern. I actually like the performance in games better than its performance in movies and TV. The thing is AWESOME when it comes to games. Nothing beats it. Nothing. I have a friend with a Samsung LN52A650 LCD (my recommendation by the way) and my plasma slaps it around when it comes to games, picture quality wise and performance wise (although mine costs considerably more). The problem with some of the LCDs (Samsungs in particular) is you HAVE to put it in game mode to reduce input lag to a minimum. Leaving it on anything but game mode will give you considerable input lag. Now the negative side effect is that in game mode, all the video processing/enhancements are turned off and will result in a reduction of your picture quality. I leave mine on the standard Pure setting and I'm good to go for movies and games. I also get ZERO IR. Absolutely zero. And I play Street Fighter HD for HOURS which has strength meters that are static. I've also played Rock Band, Guitar Hero, you name it. You name a 360/PS3 game, I probably have it. My plasma performs amazingly with all games. But I have to admit, I did run it through a long break in period using the Break-In DVD. All of 6 hrs before I said screw this, I want to WATCH my TV. Never used the Break-In DVD again.



But to be honest, I'd have to say if you are going plasma, Pioneer is going to be your best choice. The other plasmas may have issues that could be distracting when playing games. Samsung plasmas are more prone to IR, Panasonic shows more phosphor lag (green fringe) when playing games. Now there are quite few people that game on Samsung and Panasonic plasmas and don't even notice these little annoyances. So it will be up to you to see if it will be ok.


LCDs are good to play games too, just know what you are getting into. I believe the z series Sonys do a pretty good job reducing input lag while still giving access to the picture controls. I'd substitute the XBR6 you are looking at with the z series Sony. The z model is a better deal.
 
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