AVS Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
282 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Okay, I know there's been a TON of posts the pros and cons of each one of these players separately, but I've narrowed (LOL, yeah, if that's considered narrowing) my shopping down to those three. Yup, I see some incredulous faces out there wondering what train I've just fallen off, considering such a motley group of players I've chosen, but bear with me... here's my question(s):


Which one to buy if price is not too much of an issue?


Before people say: get the 9200 for the price discount, or the Panasonic for it's performance, etc., let me expand on what I'm weighing against. This is more or less the reasons why I'm pretty indecisive at this point.


1) The 9200 is probably the best built, but I know it's considered a "dinosaur," since it's the oldest of the three. It seems it's also the most discounted.

2) The RP91 I understand is the best performing video-wise, from what I gather, is relatively new, and I see well discounted into the $400's.

3) The 4700 and 70BK are the newest models, and cheaper than heck.


Now, are the newer models necessarily better? Or do the older ones represent a better buy? (Bangs head against the wall)


Here's my video circumstances:


I know the 9200 and RP91 use the Genesis chip set, the 70BK a Mediamatics, and the 4700 a new Zoran. I DON'T have an HDTV yet, but am planning to move up to a FPTV sometime early next year. I just need a player with good progressive performance, I'm not yet that picky, but don't want to be stuck with a player I won't be happy with. So from a video standpoint, I figure the best bet's the RP91.


Here's the audio circumstances:


Yes, I know DVD Audio (along with SACD) is still a niche product. I'm a music guy at heart (my system's used 75/25 music to HT) and wanted to try out some advanced resolution formats. Since SACD's an evolution of the CD player, I don't think I'm going to invest in an SACD/DVD player, but probably will invest in one of the separate SACD players out there. I figure the 9200's gonna give the best in DVD Audio performance (I know the Onkyo and Integra are more well regarded, but they're not selling at bargain basement prices right now). In this case, is the 9200 a better choice?


Or should I just get the 4700/70BK and be over with it, saving $200 to $450 in the process?


*Bangs head against wall some more*


LOL, so here's the question:


If you had to choose between one of the three (the last two [4700 & 70BK] are considered the same for me), which would you pick, given my predicament, and why?


Thanks for any help you can throw my way. :D


Christian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
282 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Looks like that's the winner right now, sspears. Any music oriented HT'ers out there have an opinion?


Christian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
I am looking real hard at the Denon 4800. It has Burr Brown DAC's and a 4 MB video buffer for layer changes. The forum consensus is that it does not have the chroma bug but I still am not sure it has been reviewed yet.


Since this is a 5 disc player, it will replace my Marantz CD 5-disc changer and Panasonic RV-80.


However, I am still trying to discover whether the Denon 4800 can be modified for SDI. If it can, then I am going to buy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I'm also thinking about the JVC-SA70BK.


I've read the online manual at JVCs site. Can anyone clarify what the

NTSC/PAL switch on the back does ?

Is it simply a standards convertor ?


There's also the "multi" settings which override the switch.

My reading of the manual suggests that the effect of these settings is

to enable PAL playback of PAL source even if the disk is region 1/NTSC.

So, if for instance I buy a US region 1 DVD of "The Prisoner", assuming the source is actually PAL, I'll see PAL on a MultiStandard TV.


If this is the case, then this might clinch the deal. Do other "High Street:

machines do this ?


Thx,


-Simon
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
Will anybody want to warn me not to buy Toshiba SD9200? I'm more concerned about PQ during playing Movie DVD's on my CRT PJ. Sound is not my conern because I have two channels only.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,310 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by ptyen
Will anybody want to warn me not to buy Toshiba SD9200? I'm more concerned about PQ during playing Movie DVD's on my CRT PJ. Sound is not my conern because I have two channels only.
I can't imagine anyone trying to dissuade you from buying an SD9200. I have had one for almost a year now, and am completely happy with it. Both video and audio quality are outstanding.


However, this is a one year old design, and in the electronics world that makes a big difference. There may be players that are as good or better for a lot less money these days (see messages above).


Now, if Toshiba would announce an SD9300, with bass management for DVD-A I would buy it in a second. Hopefully it would be faster responding to menu buttons as well, as the SD9200 is very slow, but that's a small issue.


Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
Thanks Mike! Bass and Menu button, 2 negative points! Though still in favor of it, taking into account the current market pricing!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
282 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Micheal,


*Feels a temporary pull from pressing "Add to Cart" on an RP91*


*Durn, I was sooo close! :D *


What bass management, if any, does the 9200 have? Also, what display device are you using?


Christian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,038 Posts
Quote:
I'm also thinking about the JVC-SA70BK.
sajf,


US JVC players do not have any switches on a back. The manual is wrong. Maybe they were suppose to have the switch but they are set for NTSC output only.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,038 Posts
sajf,


I just looked on JVC website. The manual you looked at is for international model. US manuals are XV-SA70BKC and XV-SA70BKJ.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,310 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Christian
What bass management, if any, does the 9200 have? Also, what display device are you using?


Christian
None (for DVD-Audio).


A Toshiba TW40X81 which is a 40" HDTV-ready widescreen RPTV. Highly recommended.


P.S. Someone posted some early information about an SD9500 which may be worth taking a look at.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
About a month ago I was ready to buy the Panasonic RP-91 but after getting input from some of the same people who are responding to your question I went with the JVC. I bought the XV-FA90bk model and I am very pleased with it.


The negative response on the RP-91 from the people who know was to expect "occasional combing" and this drives some people nuts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,038 Posts
Quote:
The negative response on the RP-91 from the people who know was to expect "occasional combing" and this drives some people nuts
JVC players comb even more than RP91. They even comb on interlaced output because it is derived from progressive.

For all you newbies on this group I suggest you do more research before you post wrong information.

Here is the link to progressive shootout 1 and 2,

look at the tests for players with Mediamatics chip.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...t-12-2000.html
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...-2-8-2001.html

RP91 is one of the best players out there. Combing is very minor and only occurs on badly flagged discs. You can still get rid of it simply by manually going into video mode. The only advantage JVC players have is, that they play PAL discs on any NTSC TV with perfect conversion quality.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
688 Posts
Raymar,


Tsk, tsk. You started the RP56 vs. RP91 debate with all the inputs from Stacy, Don, and others (not to mention Shootout II) in your earlier post. I don't think the JVC was even in the running!


Too bad you literally took the opinions for very few people who liked the JVC. I've seen the JVC at the at a local dealer mated to HDTV. No comparison vs. the RP91 - on HDTV, the 91 performs flawlessly, better than my HTPC in 540p and 1080i digital upconversion.


You were so close to purchasing the 91! But if you're happy and have no regrets...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
bodegabay -


It is true that I really did want to select the RP-91 but, as I mentioned - two of the shootout authors just couldn't bring themselves to fully recommend it. Hence the hedge for me to "expect occassional combing" with the RP-91 which was the better of the two Panasonics.


I read into the responses that the RP-91 was not the best player for the money for me.


I also read that the new JVCs DO NOT COMB and they have a very good picture for film based DVDs which is what I was most interesed in. Further, I was interested in a DVD player with a really good scaler and the JVC outshines the RP-91 in that area also.


So after reading all the responses and reading between the lines of the respones I chose the JVC. I personally have not witnessed a single DVD with the combing effect and I have watched just about 100 DVDs with the new JVC. I rarely watch a DVD just to try to find a bad flag or wade through the hours and hours of bonus material just looking for something to complain about.


I am also not into taking advantage of the 30 day returns and doing a lot of comparisons and then changing my mind after reading a new post by someone who probably knows less about it than I do.


I hope this clarifies how I made my decision.


;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,502 Posts
Quote:
Further, I was interested in a DVD player with a really good scaler and the JVC outshines the RP-91 in that area also.
raymar99,


Do you know this for a fact from personal experience, or are you just making an assumption based on what you've read? I am also considering the JVC and the rp91 and scaling is important to me.


Anyone else care to comment on the scaling performance of these two players?


Ken
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
Response for CKNA, bodegebay and K_Thompson.


Re: the JVC XV-FA90 and Panasonic RP-91 - as for the video quality, chroma bug, combing, and scaling -


These are selected direct quotes from the DVD Shootout:


National Semiconductor NDV8501 (used in all the new JVCs)


One thing this chipset does incredibly well is scaling. It has a multi-tap scaler that produces smooth results at essentially any zoom ratio. Not all manufacturers make full use of this feature, but when they do, the quality is very high.


JVC XV-D723GD (Earlier model of the new JVCs, same chipset)


The video quality on this unit was top-notch. It had almost no ringing, and was second only to the Camelot in this regard. There was no Y/C delay, and the measured numbers were good, though not outrageously good. It has a very smooth, clean output, with no artificial edge enhancement. The JVC doesn’t have even a hint of the chroma upsampling problem, making it one of only four in the showdown that didn’t have the problem.



Genesis gmVLX1A-X & gmAFMC (Used in the Panasonic RP-91)


The Genesis chipset offers lots of useful options, including scaling 4x3 input to 16x9 output, and scaling any input signal to a wide range of output resolutions. These features were designed for the scaler market, but some DVD players are starting to make use of them for scaling and zoom features, and doing things like automatically scaling letterboxed movies to make them appear to be anamorphic to the TV.


The main Achilles heel of the Genesis chipset is that it doesn’t buffer more than one field, so it can’t look ahead to see cadence breaks coming in advance. Accordingly, the Genesis is almost guaranteed to comb on 3-2 pattern breaks. By the time it knows the cadence has broken, it has already sent out at least one bad frame. In addition, the Genesis is not very good at identifying or handling 2-2 cadence, which comes up more than you might think.


Panasonic RP-91


This player has a lot of things going for it. It has many useful features, including auto-scaling of letterboxed movies so they fill a 16x9 display in "full" mode. It's fast, has excellent video quality, and has no chroma bug. Unfortunately, the player uses the inferior (in our opinion) Genesis chipset, and while Panasonic has done an admirable job of squeezing the last ounce of performance out of it, it still can't match up to the Sage or Silicon Image chipsets.


Like all Panasonic players we've looked at, this one doesn't have the chroma bug. The video quality is excellent. The auto-scaling works well, and letterboxed material scales fine, without any obvious scaling artifacts. The scaling won't turn a non-anamorphic disc into an anamorphic one, but on many televisions, using the player's internal scaling will improve the picture over using the TV zoom, because in "full" mode, there are more scan lines on the screen, closer together, than in "zoom" mode.


End of direct quotes -


Of course I recommend that you read the entire shootout to get a good balanced view. I did and I chose the JVC. The only weakness of the RP-91 that kept me from selecting it was the statement referenced earlier in this thread that it was O.K. if I could live with "occasional combing". I decided that I didn't want to, so I went with the JVC. As I stated previously - I am yet to see any combing with the JVC after viewing about 100 DVDs, the video looks excellent IMO, and the scaler works great. Further, as the shootout stated - there is no hint of the chroma bug either.


I am still waiting for my two free DVD-Audio DVDs and the free Total Recall DVD that I got just for buying this model JVC. BTW, it also comes with a set of component video cables.


I hope this answers your questions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
Further to the above post, I dug out Don Munsil's comments about the RP-91 vs RP-56 that I initiated. Don and Stacey are two of the authors of the shootout.



The RP91 clearly has better analog components, lower video noise, and is a better, more high-end machine in terms of overall picture quality if deinterlacing is left out of the equation. As Stacey already said, Panasonic had to cut corners to get the price of the RP-56 down.


All that said, I think the picture advantage of the RP-91 is not huge. The RP-56 has a very good picture, as good as or better than many other DVD players that cost much more. It really just depends on what you want. If you want the best picture possible, the RP-91 is going to be closer. If you want the best deinterlacing, the RP-56 is a better choice.


For me, bad deinterlacing is a major problem, so I just won't buy a player with the Genesis chip. But I am not everyone, and neither is Stacey, which is why we don't rank the players against each other or make specific recommendations.


They're both excellent players, in their own way, but they're not easily comparable. No other player, to my knowledge, has such good, simple, well designed aspect controls as the RP-91, and it has a host of other really nifty bells and whistles. The RP-56 is a bare-bones inexpensive DVD player that just happens to have one of the two best deinterlacing solutions in it. It's a super bargain, but it's not perfect.


You really have to consider all the factors, and weigh them all according to your preferences. Not everyone is as picky about deinterlacing as Stacey and I, and there's no reason they shouldn't be very happy with a Genesis-based player. Most of the time, it will work quite well.


Sorry I can't be more definitive, but there really doesn't seem to be the "perfect" player right now, though I think they're getting closer and closer all the time.


Best,

Don


Later Post, same thread, by Don M.


I would only add a couple minor clarifications to what Stacey already said. When the source is film, and the deinterlacers are performing properly, they should produce identical results on each frame of film, assuming both are being fed identical interlaced fields. Those identical progressive frames are then fed into an analog section that may cause any number of other artifacts, like ringing or noise.


However, on video-based material, or (this is key) material that is recognized as video the deinterlacing algorithms make a huge difference in picture quality. The difference between the Genesis video-deinterlacing algorithms and the Sage are just night and day (and I mean that, it's not just hyperbole).


So if you watch any video-based material, or material that has odd cadence signatures (like anime or made-for-tv material), then the Genesis is going to severely degrade the picture quality compared to the Sage.


It's all interrelated, and I think it's a mistake to compare two DVD players just by looking at the picture while playing a well-encoded big-name Hollywood disc. That's like comparing two cars by driving them around the block at 25 miles per hour. You'd conclude that a Ferrari is about the same as a Yugo.


The complex interrelationships between the different parts of the video chain, and the fact that they all can fail at different times on different material makes it VERY hard to pick a single winner. I can find 10 discs that will look better on an RP-56, and 10 discs that will look better on an RP-91. And 100 discs where part of the disc will look better on one, and some of it will look better on the other.


In the end, you've got to figure out what's most important, and how much money you're willing to spend to get a little better analog quality or a certain set of features. It's hard. It would be easier if there was a DVD player will the RP-91's features and analog quality, and the RP-56's deinterlacing, but such a beast doesn't exist yet.


end of quotes.


Now you know why I chose the JVC instead of the RP-91.


RayM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,311 Posts
I've not heard a lot of feedback on the JVC, or the Panny, or either of the Toshibas regarding SOUND QUALITY. Most of us are picture quality afficianados, however most of us are using this for both critical listening sessions occasionally besides wanting excellent sound out of the movie experience. So...can you folks shed info on the noted sound quality. (I did hear some feedback re. the 4700' s bass being a little "thin" in response).


Hey, I'm at the "century mark" for posts! Awright!
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top