AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
97 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just got my 40h80 and I know these sets aren't perfect out of the box, but the resolution seems really bad to me. I'm using powerstrip and the 9A60 to connect from my pc to display a windows desktop at 960x540p and the resolution is horrible. I have contrast at 40 and sharpness at 70. The desktop looks like the desktop I got with the dreamcast web browser on my GE 19" tv. Is there anything I can do to improve this? The difference between dvd quality on my 17" monitor and the toshiba 40h80 is ridiculous. Thanks for any help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
476 Posts
You could be sitting too close to the Tosh - move back. It's going to show imperfections in the source because it's much larger.


It's possible the Tosh is in need of mechanical or electrical focusing, as well as service menu covergence. You could call Tosh service and they should be able to help under warranty. Or, if you're adventurous you could learn to do it yourself, at a site like: http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/usefu...hiba_tips.html



Les
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
476 Posts
Theoretically and practically, a projection TV should be able to resolve more detail than a direct view CRT. The shadow mask of the CRT limits the resolution.


Les
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
787 Posts
b4 my mits, i spent 3 glorious weeks with a tw40x81. Like the first girl I ever slept with, i have fond memories, regardless of the fact that she outweighed me by 40lbs.

I digress.

The 40x81 was dreadfully out of focus and out of convergence. The user accesible covergence menu of 9 points was like putting a coleman tent on the old girl. It hid the most disgusting traits, but did nothing for the overall fact that she was a fat pig... ooops there I go again.


Out Of the Box, I think the tosh are simply awful. Work with it, go to Keohi .

He can help you. The mits I got after I returned the tosh is much better out of the box.

You will have much luck in getting your set to be all that it can be if you follow the step by step instructions on that site. I have seen the tosh well "setup", they are phenomenal.


Keep the faith brother, and make sure you get a digital stb. You are stupid if you don't. Its like getting a 21 inch monitor and keeping at 640x480. You are not realizing the full potential.

K


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,304 Posts
Have you done the geometry and convergence procedures for the 1080i section of your TV? Since 540p is a 33.75KHz signal (the same as 1080i) chances are that your HD settings are out of whack (especially since you just got this TV). You should go into service convergence and see what it looks like. Also, electronic and mechanical focus probably need to be adjusted.


------------------

Vic Ruiz
STOP HDCP/DFAST/5C


[This message has been edited by vruiz (edited 06-06-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
447 Posts
Hi rorybbellows,


I have an htpc running at the same res and it looks great on my 65X81.


Have you ran Avia or VE on your set yet? Reason I ask is that your contrast and sharpness settings seem high.


Are you using PowerDVD? WinDVD? There are settings within each that you also need to configure. Are you running yxy?


Folks at the hptc forum should be able to give you some add'l help.


Thanks,

Errol


------------------
Keohi HDTV

Your Friendly HDTV Tips Site


[This message has been edited by kealii (edited 06-05-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,948 Posts
when i had a toshiba 40x81, the very first thing i did was the typical: set the contrast down to about 26, feed it

avia, tweak the brightness and contrast again, set the convergence (9 points), adjust the color with Avia. this worked fairly well, but then i had the set calibrated by Gary Merson, a local ISF/guru. He set the electrical and mechanical focus, disconneced scan velocity modulation and most importantly, set the grey scale. These are not user adjustable settings, requiring internal access and service menu changes.

the results were night and day improvement. go for the isf calibration, especially the grey scale!


jlm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
695 Posts
My Toshiba also looked pretty horrible out of the box. I wouldn't recommend having a Toshiba technician out to play with your settings unless they come recommended by someone else who's had similar service. My Toshiba guy continually sets the thing back to normal which cranks the contrast way up.


If you don't want to get your hands dirty in the service menu, then use Avia or Video Essentials and the user menu to correct the common stuff like brightness, sharpness, contrast, color and tint. You should at least become comfortable in the service convergence menu. That 9-point user convergence is worthless. Finely tuned convergence can make a big difference in perceived focus.


You might try to find someone in your area (via this forum or others) that would be willing to come over to your place and either tweak it for you or help you tweak it.


With these type of high-end consumer displays, gone are the days when you can just bring the thing home, turn it on, and expect it to look any good. Now that I'm informed, I keep telling my family when they buy a new tv NOT to buy it based on what it looks like on the showroom floor. Do the research first, find the one you want that fits in your pricerange, and hell, I'LL tweak it for them when they get it home. The Toshiba's are great sets. It's capable of so much more than what you see out of the box, but it takes some work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
227 Posts
To set up something as complex as a digital HD ready TV requires HOURS of tweaking. Toshiba simply can't do it and still sell the set at a reasonable price.


I don't think the Pioneer Elites are any better BUT they come out of the box in much better overall alignment.


I have a one year old TW65X81. Like yours it was mediocre out of the box. Today it easily surpasses the quality of most theatrical presentations.


You will hear a great deal of discussion regarding the necessity of getting the gray scale set by an ISF technician. Most consumer sets are delivered with a gray scale in the 9,500 to 12,000 range. That's no good. It's important to get it down to something like 6,500 to 7,000 (via the warm setting.) I for one do not think it necessary to nail it perfectly at 6,500 via an expensive service procedure
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
I know the cables have to be disconnected before you can go into service mode and do a service convergence. Should you do the service convergence on the component video mode (i.e. Colorstream HD 1) or video 1?


------------------

Ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
695 Posts
You only need to disconnect the video cables if you want to use the internal test patterns (which I don't recommend) You can get to the service convergence regardless of what you've got plugged in there. For test patterns, use Avia or Video Essentials.


And YES, absolutely, you must do a separate convergence for each picture mode. That means different convergence memories for Full, TW1, TW2, TW3, 480p and 1080i. To display the 480p and 1080i convergence grids, you need to have those sources connecting and sending a signal to the tv. If you've got a progressive scan dvd player, you need to have it on and have something going into one of the colorstream inputs to see the 480p pattern. Same for 1080i. You need to have a 1080i source coming into the tv to get to that convergence grid. If you've got a Dish 6000 receiver, just turn it on HD output. That'll provide you with 1080i.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,948 Posts
regarding grey scale: the typical graphical display seen in print plots color, (measured in degrees Kelvin) against brightness; sort of like a frequency response curve. the idea is to get the same color at each brightness level and to have that color represent "typical" color balance for white, generally agreed to be 6,500 degrees Kelvin. Most sets don't have either a flat curve or the proper average color.


An ISF tech will display full test screens one at a time of 0 through 100 IRE brightness levels, measure the color temperature with a colorimeter and set the color temperature of each brightness level to 6,500 using the serive menu codes; sort of like setting the tint control for each step of grey.


A black and white image for an out of balance set will have different color casts for darker and lighter porotions of the image,very unsatisfactory.


jlm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,304 Posts
Rory, remember that the service convergence is only half the job. Being that your TV is brand new, it's a virtual certainty that electronic and mechanical focus will need to be adjusted. You must do the focus BEFORE you do the convergence.


------------------

Vic Ruiz
STOP HDCP/DFAST/5C
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
227 Posts
A black and white image for an out of balance set will have different color casts for darker and lighter porotions of the image,very unsatisfactory.Text


The above comment is true enough. However with a little practice it's easy enough to get a B&W pic to look just fine.


What the ISF guy does and what you pay for is to get this cast to 6,500K. That's impossible to do by eye!


It is possible to eyeball the color temp to something between 6,500 and 7,500K with reasonable tracking. In my opinion this inaccuracy makes VERY LITTLE difference when you view program material.


By the way. Even after calibration your set will still have variations of hundreds of degrees from the magic number! It's the nature of the beast. The errors have however been minimized


There are other things a good tech can do that (in my opinion) return more bang for the buck,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
695 Posts

Quote:
In my opinion this inaccuracy makes VERY LITTLE difference when you view program material.
Well, opinions will vary, and everyone is entitled to have their own. In my opinion, it makes a BIG difference. When Chuck Williams calibrated my set a few months back, he said my own tweaking had put me in the ballpark. However, after he was done making his professional adjustments, the colors really leap off the screen, the red is reigned in (red is red, not blaze red), blues are crisp. It's particularly noticeable on dvd's and HD material. I feel it was worth every penny for the reasons mentioned above, plus it finally provided a cure to my obsessive tweaking. Now I can just turn the thing on and enjoy!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Unfortunately, I live in the "sticks", between Des Moines, Iowa and Omaha, Nebraska. I haven't had any luck to even get a Toshiba tech, let alone an ISF tech.


------------------

Ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
227 Posts
However, after he was done making his professional adjustments, the colors really leap off the screen, the red is reigned in (red is red, not blaze red), blues are crisp. It's particularly noticeable on dvd's and HD material.


This comment is doubtless correct but it has nothing to do with gray scale equalization.


Think of the projection screen in a movie theater. The color of the screen effects the overall "tint/hue" of the image projected on it.


Exactly the same notion applies to a television monitor. If the color temp of gray (equal proportions of red/blue/green) is to high then the image will be to blue. If the color temp is to low the image will be to red. To red or to blue in respect to what? Answer... the source material.


However, the brain has a VERY POOR capacity to recall colors. That's why we have no problem identifying a color as blue if it's illuminated by a 3,500K source (light bulb) or 8,500 daylight on a cloudy afternoon.


The point I am making is that if your monitor is adjusted to something approximating the correct color temperature it's going to look just fine. Will it look different next to another differently calibrated monitor? Yes indeed it will but that's not the point.


As to tamed reds (red push adjustable on some sets via AVAIA) and more appealing blues. That has to do with the color decoder of your monitor. The technician calibrated it and the difference was immediately evident. One of the tweaks that are worth paying for!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,948 Posts
richard, read my post again. you seem to be overlooking the fact that the tint can be a function of brightness. you are correct in that the overall tint can be adjusted by eye, but the only way to adjust the tint for 16 steps of brightness is through the service menu. the effect of an out of balance grey scale, using ablack and white image as an example, is that dim areas will look a different color than areas of different brightness; adjusting the tint control can't equalize them. in addition to equalizing the color temp over the brightness range, the value of that color temp can be accurately set to 6,500 Kelvin.


jlm

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Just a little advice to a newbie doing convergence adjustments. Look at your Green gun with the others turned off. If the geometry is OK with that tube, always use it as a reference. That is, only adjust the RED and/or Blue to match the Green. Hopefully that way you won't wind up with as many geometry errors. Also FYI, the 40H80 has lower resolution specs than the larger screen models.


Good Luck, Max
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top