Toshiba RS-XS34 - any info?

JK27

· #3 · Mar 1, 2005

Toshiba RD-XS34: DVD Recorder with recording and playback of DVD-RAM, DVD-R and DVD-RW, 160GB HDD, DV input, $499.99, release date March 2005.

CNET also states that it will have the free TV Guide Electronic Program Guide (EPG). This article also states it will be available in April, 2005: CNET on RD-XS34

Here's a UK website with "provisional specs": Linkification

As for inputs/outputs ...

1x DV Input

1x Optical Digital Output

1x Coaxial Digital Output

1x Analogue Pair Audio Output/Input

1x Component Video Output (Progressive/Interlace)

2x SCART Output (2x RGB)

1x S-Video Input/1x Output

1x Composite Video Input/ 1x Output

1x RF In/1x Output

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bnewt

Discussion Starter · #4 · Mar 1, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by EPlay
I have the XS-32, and hard drive and fan are very quiet.

Chroma bug issue = YMMV

What does that mean??????

Only 1 svideo input? I was hoping for 2 so that I could connect my Dish receiver & my ota stb.

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JK27

· #5 · Mar 1, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by bnewt
What does that mean??????

Only 1 svideo input? I was hoping for 2 so that I could connect my Dish receiver & my ota stb.

YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary. In other words, you might experience it, you might not.

Black Level Bug ("BLB") re: Toshibas

* Fact: Toshiba states that its DVD Recorders record correct black levels.

* Fact: the BLB doesn't (and cannot) occur when copying from a digital source (e.g., digital camcorder via DV Inputs). In other words, no BLB for this usage.

* Fact: all black levels will be displayed perfectly if you record on any media (HDD, DVD-R, DVD-RW or DVD-RAM) and you play that media back on the Toshiba DVD Recorder. In other words, no BLB for this usage.

* Fact: it is only possible to see the BLB (e.g., blacks as dark grays) IF you burn analog content to a DVD AND IF you play that DVD on a different DVD player (HOWEVER ... it also depends on your DVD player and your TV equipment and settings).

* Fact: many people cannot see any BLB -- even when trying to reproduce it. Others say they can see it and have returned their units because of it. Still others say they can see it, but it's so minor that it's not an issue. This is why it's called a YMMV issue.

**********

As for the S-Video inputs/outputs, I would not rely on the accuracy of the UK website and its "provisional specs". Wait until we get something more concrete from Toshiba. Oh yeah, the Japanese RD-XS34 is silver. So ... Toshiba may change many things for a North American release.

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Tom Roper

· #6 · Mar 2, 2005

CUE, or "chroma upsampling error" is not the same thing as the black level problem that JK27 seems to be confusing it with.

I've rarely seen CUE mentioned in discussions of DVDRs, which are generally not reviewed critically for playback performance, although they should be.

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Tom Roper

· #7 · Mar 2, 2005

The black level bug is a *recording* error, and while mostly attributed to Toshiba models, is quite likely *far* more widespread. Virtually *any* DVDR that does not offer selectable dual settings for the S-Vid input, 0 IRE and -7.5 IRE, will not be able to correctly encode black at 0 IRE from a U.S. spec NTSC source, including cable set top boxes, satellite tuners, Dish, DirecTV, Comcast, TiVo and VHS.

Models known to have the BLB include early model Panasonic, some recent Toshiba, JVC and Lite-On models.

Known models with dual selectable 0 IRE/ -7.5 IRE S-Vid inputs include recent Panasonic and Pioneer models. The Sony HX900 should also encode properly at 0 IRE from its component inputs.

The visibility of the BLB error is minor in most cases, as JK27 noted.

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bnewt

Discussion Starter · #8 · Mar 2, 2005

Is the BLB something that a novice would notice? Does it affect the recording capabilities of the unit? If so, which portion of the recording is affected - hard drive or recorded dvd? I am interested in finding a black unit that has both a quiet hard drive & dvd recordin abilities. I would like the unit to have 2 svideo inputs to record from a dish network receiver and an ota stb. This doesn't seem like a far fetched want, but apparently a black unit is very difficult to find, other than the Pioneer 57H, which does not have but 1 svideo input, and no ability to record directly to dvd, only from hard drive to dvd, but no editing capabilities.

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JK27

· #9 · Mar 2, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom Roper
CUE, or "chroma upsampling error" is not the same thing as the black level problem that JK27 seems to be confusing it with.

Tom, just to clarify ... I assumed that Bnewt was asking about the BLB -- and responded as if it were a BLB inquiry. When people mention Toshiba and "bug" in the same sentence, they are typically referring to the BLB ... not the Chroma upsampling error. So ... no confusion on this end

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Tom Roper

· #10 · Mar 2, 2005

Only recording onto DVDs is affected.

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7481387

· #11 · Mar 2, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by JK27:

* Fact: Toshiba states that its DVD Recorders record correct black levels.

Well OF COURSE they're going to say that! What do you expect them to say? "Yes, our product is defective"???

Quote:

* Fact: all black levels will be displayed perfectly if you record on any media (HDD, DVD-R, DVD-RW or DVD-RAM) and you play that media back on the Toshiba DVD Recorder. In other words, no BLB for this usage.

That doesn't mean the bug doesn't exist. It only means that upon playback, Toshiba internally compensates for its own recording error. The error is still recorded to the DVD, and may well show up when played on other DVD players.
Quote:

* Fact: it is only possible to see the BLB (e.g., blacks as dark grays) IF you burn analog content to a DVD and IF you play that DVD on a different DVD player.

True enough, but I see that as a pretty significant limitation. If I record a TV show (or a home video transferred through the S-video port) to DVD, I'd like to be able to play it on other players without having to worry if it's going to look washed out. It may (or may not) be possible to adjust for it on the other DVD player, but why should I have to hope for that ability or have to fiddle with adjusting the player before playing the DVD, and then adjust it back afterwards?

(It's also true that it whether the high recorded black level is visible or not on the playback machine depends on several factors. On playback, your mileage may indeed vary. It may not be visible at all, or it may be just a minor thing. Many people have written that they are very happy with their Toshibas. But the incorrect black level is in fact permanently burned to the DVD itself, and just knowing that would bother me. Maybe I'm just being too picky -- maybe I need to "lighten up" [if you'll pardon the pun]

-- but that's how I feel.)

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nascar24

· #12 · Mar 3, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain Shirk
Well OF COURSE they're going to say that! What do you expect them to say? "Yes, our product is defective"???

That doesn't mean the bug doesn't exist. It only means that upon playback, Toshiba internally compensates for its own recording error. The error is still recorded to the DVD, and may well show up when played on other DVD players.

True enough, but I see that as a pretty significant limitation. If I record a TV show (or a home video transferred through the S-video port) to DVD, I'd like to be able to play it on other players without having to worry if it's going to look washed out. It may (or may not) be possible to adjust for it on the other DVD player, but why should I have to hope for that ability or have to fiddle with adjusting the player before playing the DVD, and then adjust it back afterwards?

(It's also true that it whether the high recorded black level is visible or not on the playback machine depends on several factors. On playback, your mileage may indeed vary. It may not be visible at all, or it may be just a minor thing. Many people have written that they are very happy with their Toshibas. But the incorrect black level is in fact permanently burned to the DVD itself, and just knowing that would bother me. Maybe I'm just being too picky -- maybe I need to "lighten up" [if you'll pardon the pun] -- but that's how I feel.)

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah! Hasnt this been discussed one to many times!

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chole

· #13 · Mar 3, 2005

If this black bug is real, why? wouldn't Toshiba simply fix it? They would have to know about it!

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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...58#post4334358

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7481387

· #14 · Mar 3, 2005

I've wondered about that myself. Toshiba's unresponsiveness to this issue, even after having been notified of it, is troubling.

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nascar24

· #15 · Mar 3, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain Shirk
I've wondered about that myself. Toshiba's unresponsiveness to this issue, even after having been notified of it, is troubling.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...58#post4334358

Maybe when you buy yourself a DVD recorder then you will find out.

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7481387

· #16 · Mar 3, 2005

Correct-amundo.

Despite Toshiba's lack of concern for its customers, that is exactly what I intend to do. (I.e., assuming that Tosh is telling the truth when they say the RD-XS34 is coming out this month, I'm going to buy one as soon as they're available and see how it performs. They don't really deserve it, but I'm gonna give 'em a chance because they're apparently going to be the first manufacturer out of the gate with the new 2005 models. Early bird gets the worm and all that....)

[So you see? I'm not a Toshiba-hater! I just prefer companies that fix their products when a defect is reported, rather than sweeping it under the rug and pretending it doesn't exist. But despite that, I'm going to give them a second chance because I'm such a nice guy.]

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JK27

· #17 · Mar 3, 2005

I don't find this "troubling" at all. I would imagine that a huge corporation, such as Toshiba (or Panasonic, or Pioneer) receives reports from consumers on a regular basis either complaining about a product or stating that the product is in some way defective. I do not believe that Toshiba, based upon 1 report of incorrect black levels (no offense intended to jmscott!) would halt production, retool the assembly line, etc. I also believe that Toshiba would put considerable weight into the fact that that it has sold tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands, millions?) of these units WITHOUT complaints. So, unless complaints are widespread -- or the unit isn't selling ... I highly doubt that Toshiba would do anything. What is "widespread" and how many complaints would be needed for Toshiba to do anything different? You'd have to ask Toshiba that one.

Assembly lines and mass production can create defects, bad apples, lemons ... whatever you want to call them. Perhaps Toshiba is assuming that this is what happened with jmscott's model?

Since I do not see any BLB on my Toshiba RD-XS32 (or on DVD's burned on the RD-XS32 and played on other DVD players), it is certainly possible that the problem is not widespread and/or perhaps it is better/worse in individual units. As I've said all along, this is a huge YMMV issue. Some will see it. Some won't.

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nascar24

· #18 · Mar 3, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain Shirk
Correct-amundo.

Despite Toshiba's lack of concern for its customers, that is exactly what I intend to do. (I.e., assuming that Tosh is telling the truth when they say the RD-XS34 is coming out this month, I'm going to buy one as soon as they're available and see how it performs. They don't really deserve it, but I'm gonna give 'em a chance because they're apparently going to be the first manufacturer out of the gate with the new 2005 models. Early bird gets the worm and all that....)

[So you see? I'm not a Toshiba-hater! I just prefer companies that fix their products when a defect is reported, rather than sweeping it under the rug and pretending it doesn't exist. But despite that, I'm going to give them a second chance because I'm such a nice guy.]

Looks like your going to be happy with the selectable IRE levels in the new Toshiba. To me its still a non issue on my current one but at least it should quiet all the Toshiba bashers. Although depending on your TV you might like that wrong IRE levels as everyone states them here since every TV and DVD equipment dont act the same, And the reason this BLB thing was way overblown.

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jmscott42

· #19 · Mar 3, 2005

It does appear, from the spec sheet posted here, that Toshiba HAS fixed the black level issues, as they now claim as a "feature": 0 IRE / 7.5 IRE Recording Selection:
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/tacpasse...-xs34_spec.pdf

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