Total Noob needs advice for new construction

My experience is somewhat limited with Audio AND Video distribution systems. I have only installed the Russound CAV and Xantech systems, both using composite video feeds to each TV


Russound now allows distribution of HD Video via their VM1 Video Matrix to the TV's . A number of other systems provide it also.


Here is some info on the Russound CAV6.6 which will only distribute Standard Definition via Composite Video on it's own
http://www.russound.com/rnet.htm


To distribute High Def video, here is info on the needed VM1
http://www.russound.com/video.htm


In a nutshell you will have the Systems Controllers located where the source equipment will be. The controllers have built in amps to provide Stereo Audio to each room "zone"

The controllers will also provide the switching to determine which video source is sent to each room. All controlled via keypads at each zone.


Wiring will require you run your speaker wiring from each pair of speakers to the controller. You will also run control wires from the keypads to the controllers "typically Cat-5e" Many suggest you route the speaker wiring so it loops down to the keypad location first, before going to the speakers in that zone. This will give you more flexibility to go with different systems in different price ranges when it comes time to trim out.

You also need to run the video feeds from the controllers to the display locations in each zone. Russound utilizes Cat-5e and video baluns / wall plate receivers to provide up to a 1080p image depending on your video source.


So basic wiring would be speaker wiring from controller to zone speakers,

Cat-5e from Controller to keypad at each zone

Cat-5e from Controller / Video Matrix location to the Display "TV" in each zone.


Wiring from your structured wiring panel to the Controller / Source equipment should include several Cat-5 and 1 RG-6 Quad Coax for each DTV receiver. I would run at least 2 additional Coax Cable for expansion shoud you decide to add a DTV Receiver, or if one might have a built in DVR. The Cat-5e will be for phone and data.



Other things you might wish to wire for.... If a zones keypad will be on a different wall than your display, you can have an IR Receiver located at the display which relays the IR Remote Commands to the keypad. This accommodates the habit of pointing the remote control towards the TV vs. learning to have to point it at the keypad to change volume, sources, channels...


For larger rooms and or where you might want more bass than to be expected from ceiling or in wall speakers, you might want to include a powered sub. In this case you might wish to route the speaker wiring to a discrete location for the powered sub, before going to the speakers.


Cost ??? You really need to investigate different systems, decide on which one sounds best for you and then get bids from qualified installers. To be honest, if your at your wits end now from just exploring different systems, you will be suicidal if you try to design, install and program such a system yourself.


Hopefully, others with experience in other systems can provide input as regarding wiring requirements and system features.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mjr127 /forum/post/12885114


Thank you for the input, that will certainly help with my research.


Hmm, is distributed HD a brand new technology with this? I definitely want HD programming so maybe at present time it's not practical or economical, not sure.


Are there any simpler solutions for me? I really think my main concern is the ability to put tvs all over the house on walls (office, over fireplace, master bathroom wall) and not have to look at ugly components. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not completely sold on needing to pull up whatever I want from any tv. I'm more focused on being able to hide 8 DirecTV receivers in a closet somewhere and be able to change the channel on the tv like anyone else would as if the receiver was sitting in that room in an entertainment center.


Couldn't I do this with some simple IR technology? Or do you guys feel that if I'm willing to go this far it's worth it to shell out a few more bucks for a multizone receiver?

Click to expand...

The later part of your post is exactly what I did.


I just don't understand the purpose on smaller distribution systems. Especially when the purpose is to save money on STB rentals, when the system will cost more than 50 years of rental fees. Nevermind the headaches from teaching and continuously showing others how to operate it and fix what they screwed up.


In my home I simply hide the set top box and dvd player and use Buffulo IR equipment where needed. In my bedroom I have the STB and DVD player on the shelf in the closet, I don't even need IR hardware, I just keep the closet door cracked a bit and it works perfectly The STB for the kitchen LCD is in the unused cabinet over the fridge, the STB for the bathroom LCD is in the attic, and so on. I could have put them in one central closet, but I didn't even see the puropse in that, why make such long cable runs?

The CAV6.6 Controller alone will distribute only Composite Video "Standard Resolution" to all the displays in the home. Adding the VM-1 will allow you to view High Def video as well as standard def, depending on what the source you selected has to offer. There are other systems out there that basically already have the VM1 built in. Hopefully those with experience with such systems can chime in with info.



Yes, the Russound CAV6.6 system has some big advantages over hiding Cable Boxes, DVD Players....within each room.


With larger flat screen displays, their disadvantage is having small speakers with no enclosure behind them, unlike those in old rear projection wide screens of the past. What is the use of having , lets say a large 42, 50. 60 inch display when the sound is small. The Ceiling / In Wall speakers will provide a much richer "Bigger" sound and can be separated so you get great stereo imaging from the viewing area.


Watching a DVD in one area and decide to, lets say send someone to the Kitchen to make popcorn. That person continue to watch that same DVD that is playing while in the kitchen.


Mom is in the kitchen and wonders what the kids are watching on the TV in the bonus room? She can observe the same source to find out.


If your watching a PPV on one of the Sat Receivers, you can see it on any or all TV's in the home.


Many say it makes no sense to purchase such a system to, lets say share a single DVD player when they can be bought for $40 at Walmart. So much cheaper to buy one for each room. Now we have to consider HD DVD Players that run $500+


Yes, when you select a source in a room "zone" the image from that source is sent to the TV and that same source audio is sent to the speakers in that room. You can also use the CAV6.6 "and other similar systems" for just audio when desired . From any one of the keypads, you can turn on all of the other zones and have them play the same desired source. Perhaps a XM Radio Stations from one of the DTV Receivers, or a CD placed in the DVD Player.

If you have to leave, you can turn off all zones from any one of the keypads.


There are other advantages of a Whole House A/V distribution System. One that must also be considered is the WOW! factor for visitors. I may have a basic Honda Civic in my garage that gets me to and from work each day on time.

You may have a Ferrari in your garage that gets you to and from work each day on time. When people look in my garage, there will be no WOW! factor and it won't be the subject of conversation.



Quote:
Originally Posted by

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/forum/post/12889468


The later part of your post is exactly what I did.


I just don't understand the purpose on smaller distribution systems. Especially when the purpose is to save money on STB rentals, when the system will cost more than 50 years of rental fees. Nevermind the headaches from teaching and continuously showing others how to operate it and fix what they screwed up.


In my home I simply hide the set top box and dvd player and use Buffulo IR equipment where needed. In my bedroom I have the STB and DVD player on the shelf in the closet, I don't even need IR hardware, I just keep the closet door cracked a bit and it works perfectly The STB for the kitchen LCD is in the unused cabinet over the fridge, the STB for the bathroom LCD is in the attic, and so on. I could have put them in one central closet, but I didn't even see the puropse in that, why make such long cable runs?
[/QUOTE]


You can also look at Audio Authority's AVAtrix which is basically a HD matrix switch that you can control with home automation or remote.

There is a looooong thread on the AVAtrix in the forum.



Quote:
Originally Posted by CVanMeter /forum/post/12891980


Yes, the Russound CAV6.6 system has some big advantages over hiding Cable Boxes, DVD Players....within each room.


With larger flat screen displays, their disadvantage is having small speakers with no enclosure behind them, unlike those in old rear projection wide screens of the past. What is the use of having , lets say a large 42, 50. 60 inch display when the sound is small. The Ceiling / In Wall speakers will provide a much richer "Bigger" sound and can be separated so you get great stereo imaging from the viewing area.

Click to expand...

Agreed, but what you're saying doesn't have much to do with the Russound system (or any other system like that). You can hide a receiver with the STB and DVD player.

Quote:
Many say it makes no sense to purchase such a system to, lets say share a single DVD player when they can be bought for $40 at Walmart. So much cheaper to buy one for each room. Now we have to consider HD DVD Players that run $500+

Click to expand...

Still, the costs of installing these whole house systems is so much more than buying a couple HD-DVD players.

And I'm willing to bet many people with the whole house system end up buying multiple HD-DVD players anyway.


I'm not knocking the whole house system, just saying that it's really not going to save money. If you want to do it to do it, I am behind you 100%. But be aware that it is going to be hard to teach some people, it might cause a lot of aggrevation when something doesn't work right, and chances are it's going to cost you a lot more than the Sat. STB rentals (what the OP mentioned).


Ay way that you choose, I wish you luck and hope it works out as you want it!

So I just sorta read this thread, so I've no specific advice to offer, but here's a few general tips I'd pass on.

One:

If _I_ was building a new house, here's what I'd run to each video location:


7 RG6 + 2 Cat5e (three RG6 for component video, two for stereo audio, two for in case I ever wanted to give up and just drop dish/cable boxes in each location - 1 Cat5e for IR + 1 for data)


or, if I wanted to distribute video over Cat5e...


4 Cat5e + 2 RG6 (1 for component video + digital audio, 1 for stereo audio, 1 for IR, 1 for data - the two RG6 for the "give up" option)

Two:

If WAF was even a consideration, I'd invest in a RF-based remote control processor (something like RTI's RP-6 or URC's MSC-400). Yes, I know this enters you into the morass of DYI vs. CI, but it's my experience that long macro strings over IR work ~90% - 95% of the time.


If you have a loving patient wife, then that 5% - 10% won't be that big of a deal. If you don't, it'll be an ongoing source of marital frustration that "THE #$#$##% $X SYSTEM DOESN'T EVEN WORK RIGHT!!!"

Three:

Don't skimp on your in-wall speakers on any of your wall-mounted video rooms. A nice set of in-walls makes a _tremendous_ difference on your viewing enjoyment, (plus having nice sounding music when you choose to play music while leaving the video display off, is a fringe benefit).


You don't need to go crazy, but make sure you get something that you'll be happy with for many years, because you do not want to wish you'd spent a bit more in two or three or five years, and be faced with ripping out the sheetrock.

Four:

Know what resolution video you plan to distribute and purchase displays accordingly. This point is less an issue nowadays, as most displays support 720p/1080i (and often 1080p). That said, I've seen folks get all geeked up about HD distribution only to find two displays only do 720p while another only does 1080i. Doh!

Four.and.a.half:

This isn't really a tip, just personal preference, but I think wall-mounted keypads are a bit of a relic. Control systems are becoming so much more powerful and portable, that _I_ wouldn't plan for a bunch (in fact, any) wall-mounted keypads if I was setting something up. That's just me.

Five:

This one might be the most important, and another poster made this point already, but I think you might want to talk to a CI. I agree that if you're overwhelmed now, in the short term, it's only going to get (much) more confusing.


Measure twice cut once right..?


You might want to bring a CI in, and then bring his/her recommendations back here to see if the good folks at AVS think it's kosher.


I'm DIY all the way, but there's a place for CIs for sure, and you might benefit from contracting with one.


Regardless, best of luck!



Quote:

Originally Posted by CVanMeter View Post

Yes, the Russound CAV6.6 system has some big advantages over hiding Cable Boxes, DVD Players....within each room.


With larger flat screen displays, their disadvantage is having small speakers with no enclosure behind them, unlike those in old rear projection wide screens of the past. What is the use of having , lets say a large 42, 50. 60 inch display when the sound is small. The Ceiling / In Wall speakers will provide a much richer "Bigger" sound and can be separated so you get great stereo imaging from the viewing area.

Agreed, but what you're saying doesn't have much to do with the Russound system (or any other system like that). You can hide a receiver with the STB and DVD player.




Why would that not have much to do with Whole House A/V Distribution Systems. The whole point is to not have AV Equipment or dedicate room to place it in a room. With a system such as the Russound, you will have access to 6 different sources. To provide those same number of sources in each room would take up a good amount of space many choose to not have to deal with.

These systems are a luxury, and not designed to be the cheapest alternative.

This is what you said:

Quote:
With larger flat screen displays, their disadvantage is having small speakers with no enclosure behind them, unlike those in old rear projection wide screens of the past. What is the use of having , lets say a large 42, 50. 60 inch display when the sound is small. The Ceiling / In Wall speakers will provide a much richer "Bigger" sound and can be separated so you get great stereo imaging from the viewing area.

Click to expand...

I agree that in wall or ceiling speakers (or any other speaker than the little ones on flat panels) will give much better sound. But that has nothing to do with a whole house A/V distributed system, you can get that easily without the whole house system.

Quote:
These systems are a luxury, and not designed to be the cheapest alternative.

Click to expand...

Exactly, and the thread starter specifically said:

Quote:
I don't want to have to rent 6 dtv receivers and more importantly I don't want to have to buy entertainment stands to house components.

Click to expand...

That tells me that luxury is not the driving force behind his motivation to get a whole house system.

UPDATE:


I did find a CI and talked to him two days ago. Yes I'm definitely having a professional install the system. Someone else mentioned an alternative to the Russound system which I'll check out. Does anyone know of any other companies that have an HD a/v system comparable? One issue I see for sure is that the VM1 only has 8 zones and I think I need 9. Maybe I can just relay the signal from the master bedroom to the master bathroom like we do now and have that share a zone if I really needed to.


To be clear the use of the whole house a/v system is to accomplish a few things, not necessarily in this order but certainly for all these reasons.


1. No need for entertainment centers and a/v components at each location.

2. The house will have 9 tvs now that I count them all. I don't want to rent 9 sat boxes when we have 4 people that live here.

3. WOW factor. Yeah, my system and house own anyone who visits

4. Convenience of flexibility to watch anything anywhere anytime

I'm in the same shoes as mjr127. I'm in the process of building a house and hopefully, this week I'll get the finalized plans. I will say construction will start in a week or so.


This is what I have in mind:


. Voice/video/data structured wiring for data networking

-planning to run 2 cat5e/2 rg6/2 fiber to each living area.(neighborhood is wired with fiber optic)

For video I want to use NeoPro. I read they came out with a new video matrix switcher that uses cat5e instead of coax for components. how about russound VM1?

Planning to run 2 cat5e to each TV for component and audio.


· Automation and security

want to use HAI OMNI ProII for security and its software for automation.


· Lighting and appliance control

different types of UPB switches


· Whole home distributed audio

between russound CAV 66 or NuVo Grand Concerto. looking at 6 zones ( Master Bath, Dining room, Kitchen, Bedrooms 2,3,4) and 2 sub zones ( 1 outside and the 2nd at garage)

running cat5e to keypad location and 16/4 speaker wire to keypad location and then 16/2 from keypadl location to speaker location.

Living room and MBR will be wired for 7.1 and 5.1 respectively. I'm thinking to control the 7.1 from the equipment closet and the 5.1 control it locally in the room.


· Security cameras


· Telephone and intercom


· Temperature control

HAI temperature controls



About 2 weeks ago I got a proposal from a dealer asking about $20,000. Includes pre-wired for voice/data/video for 8 locations. 2 audio pre-wired for media room (5.1 in MBR and 7.1 in Living room). Audio distribution pre-wired 8 locations ( Russound CAV66). security and home management pre-wired. Security cameras pre-wired.

equipment includes: HAI Omni IIe, security cameras, audio distribution system Russound CAV66 with 7 pair of speakers. 2 home media system( living room and master bedroom this includes 52" and 40" 1080P LCD TVs, 2 denon receivers , 5.1 and 7.1 in wall speakers, 2 harmony 880 and all connecting cables.


The only thing here is that i check some of the prices like for the TV and he is charging me about $1k more than if i buy them on CC or BB.


I went to homecontrols.com and I found a PDF filed call Pre-Engineered System design. It has everything you need to buy to automate you home. I talk to a Tech Representative and he told me that if i send him a copy of my floor plan he can design a system that provides me with detail information about wall plates location, controllers and speakers location, type of wires, connectors and everything else. He also told me that he will guide me threw the programming phase of the products that needs to be program. They charge about $XXX, but if you spend more than $XXXX, the $XXX will be credited back. I gave him an idea of what i want to do at the new house, and he said it will cost around $8-10k in materials.


What you guys think, should I pay $20K and let then do everything or should I spend half of that and have other things like video matrix switcher, pre-wired for fiber, better receivers, speakers etc.?


In the mean time I'm trying to find some one in the local area to see how much they charge to run all the wires. Thinking to go DIY route.