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Tower Speakers, Sub, and Music Settings

1984 Views 11 Replies 7 Participants Last post by bgtighe23, Mar 24, 2015

Trogdor796

Discussion Starter · Mar 22, 2015

So I've got a Denon X1100W, Klipsch RF-62ii towers for my L and R, and an Outlaw Ultra X12.

While I mostly watch movies and game, I've been listening to music lately and had a question about what setting I should be using.

I don't have my receiver/remote in front of me at the moment, but I know when listening to two channel music I can use I think it's stereo/auto, Pure, or Pure Direct. Now, from what I understand, Pure gets rid of Audyssey, while Pure direct disables the receiver display to reduce electrical interference? And in stereo it keeps Audyssey settings.

I will need to test this again, but I believe it's in Stereo/auto that the sub remains active. When I put it in Pure or Pure direct I believe it doesn't feed anything to the sub. Which should I be using for listening to two channel music? If you have two decent towers as in my case is the sub supposed to be used? From what I remember last time I listened, it sounded fine with just the towers, but obviously I think the sub is better for lower frequencies.

I have my front speakers set to Small, and the global crossover at 80hz. As for LFE or LFE+Main, I belive it's LFE right now, not sure if that matters or not when you have front speakers at Small.

Guess I'm just wondering if anyone else with a Denon receiver and Towers+sub can help me out. I've never really listened to music with my system/previous setups before so just want to know what people usually set things to or what the correct way to do it is. I've heard that towers don't really matter for movies since you have a sub but if you are going to listen to music you want towers without a doubt, but I guess I'm struggling to see if the sub is supposed to be used in that case.

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bgtighe23

· #2 · Mar 22, 2015

Trogdor796 said:
So I've got a Denon X1100W, Klipsch RF-62ii towers for my L and R, and an Outlaw Ultra X12.

While I mostly watch movies and game, I've been listening to music lately and had a question about what setting I should be using.

I don't have my receiver/remote in front of me at the moment, but I know when listening to two channel music I can use I think it's stereo/auto, Pure, or Pure Direct. Now, from what I understand, Pure gets rid of Audyssey, while Pure direct disables the receiver display to reduce electrical interference? And in stereo it keeps Audyssey settings.

I will need to test this again, but I believe it's in Stereo/auto that the sub remains active. When I put it in Pure or Pure direct I believe it doesn't feed anything to the sub. Which should I be using for listening to two channel music? If you have two decent towers as in my case is the sub supposed to be used? From what I remember last time I listened, it sounded fine with just the towers, but obviously I think the sub is better for lower frequencies.

I have my front speakers set to Small, and the global crossover at 80hz. As for LFE or LFE+Main, I belive it's LFE right now, not sure if that matters or not when you have front speakers at Small.

Guess I'm just wondering if anyone else with a Denon receiver and Towers+sub can help me out. I've never really listened to music with my system/previous setups before so just want to know what people usually set things to or what the correct way to do it is. I've heard that towers don't really matter for movies since you have a sub but if you are going to listen to music you want towers without a doubt, but I guess I'm struggling to see if the sub is supposed to be used in that case.

The great thing about Home Audio is that it's all personal. So if you want to use a sub for music (I do - and I know many others that do also), then by all means, do it!

- the Pure preset on your remote face (labeled yellow) is playing the speakers directly how they sound with no type of EQ. I only use this when I first get my speakers to see how they sound and compare them to other speakers I have laying around. Think about it as - "it's purely the speakers"

- When I listen to music, depending on the genre, I usually listen in 2.1 stereo. That is done by pressing the Music preset on your remote (labeled red I believe) holding it down, and hitting the up arrow so the stereo option is highlighted - press OK. Some of my music goes well below 30hz and a sub is defiantly required. Even if I'm listening to mellow, or relaxed music - John Mayer for example, I still use my sub. Use the LFE as apposed to the LFE+main. I also brought my subwoofer crossovers down from 120hz to 80hz. I believe this is done by selecting the Menu (set-up)>Speakers>Speaker config.>Bass>click on 120hz and bring it down to 80hz. 80hz crossover settings are not brick walls, meaning that your towers will still play some frequencies below 80hz. Likewise, your subwoofer will play some frequencies above 80hz.

Sometimes when having my sub crossover at 120hz, I will feel vibrations of male voices which then becomes muddy and unruly because some frequencies of male voices are being sent to the sub. Bringing down my subwoofer crossover allowed me to "turn up the bass" for what it was intended to do and let my speakers handle deep voices (music and movies).

I would leave my speaker crossovers at 80hz, and leave them set-up as small - as you have. That basically means send the LFE to the subwoofer, which is a good thing. Less strain on your receiver, which lets you play your music/movies louder (bass drivers take more power to drive than tweeters).

Feel free to ask more questions or as me to clarify anything I might have missed

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commsysman

· #3 · Mar 22, 2015 (Edited)

Trogdor796 said:
So I've got a Denon X1100W, Klipsch RF-62ii towers for my L and R, and an Outlaw Ultra X12.

While I mostly watch movies and game, I've been listening to music lately and had a question about what setting I should be using.

I don't have my receiver/remote in front of me at the moment, but I know when listening to two channel music I can use I think it's stereo/auto, Pure, or Pure Direct. Now, from what I understand, Pure gets rid of Audyssey, while Pure direct disables the receiver display to reduce electrical interference? And in stereo it keeps Audyssey settings.

I will need to test this again, but I believe it's in Stereo/auto that the sub remains active. When I put it in Pure or Pure direct I believe it doesn't feed anything to the sub. Which should I be using for listening to two channel music? If you have two decent towers as in my case is the sub supposed to be used? From what I remember last time I listened, it sounded fine with just the towers, but obviously I think the sub is better for lower frequencies.

I have my front speakers set to Small, and the global crossover at 80hz. As for LFE or LFE+Main, I belive it's LFE right now, not sure if that matters or not when you have front speakers at Small.

Guess I'm just wondering if anyone else with a Denon receiver and Towers+sub can help me out. I've never really listened to music with my system/previous setups before so just want to know what people usually set things to or what the correct way to do it is. I've heard that towers don't really matter for movies since you have a sub but if you are going to listen to music you want towers without a doubt, but I guess I'm struggling to see if the sub is supposed to be used in that case.

It is stupid to use tower speakers that have good bass and set the crossover to 80 Hz!!!

This means everything below 80 Hz is only reproduced by the sub. This wastes the bass capability of your main speakers.

You want your main speakers to operate full-range and only operate the SUB-woofer BELOW the lower frequency limit of the main speakers. That is why it is called a SUB-woofer...lol.

The best way to do this is connect the subwoofer speaker-level inputs to the actual terminals of the front main speakers (use 18 gauge or 20 gauge speaker wire; the current is very small), and then set the rolloff control of the subwoofer to 40 Hz or so. Experiment with moving the frequency setting up and down slightly.

(there will be no cable connection from the receiver to the subwoofer)

Set it up this way and you will be amazed at how much better the system sounds.

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LowTech1

· #4 · Mar 22, 2015

Trogdor,I think you pretty much have it. Commysman,I agree and disagree. It depends on the speakers and how you feel at the time. There are some songs and recordings where I feel I can turn the sub off on my Esl's. But on other recordings,I need my sub.. Bass can be very subjective. I honestly believe it has to do with listening during the day or at night when its quiet. What kind of room you have. I'm not a Klipsch fan at all,but some guys love them. If his speakers have 8" woofers,he probably doesn't need a sub for music unless he wants it to hit really hard. Then you NEED a sub..

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Kini62

· #5 · Mar 22, 2015

It's all personal preference. I run my RF62s as large, no crossover and my subs as LFE + main (double bass) because I like the way it sounds set like that.

You just need to try out all the options and pick the one YOU like best.

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LowTech1

· #6 · Mar 22, 2015

I agree,there are so many variables that someone can't tell you what is right or wrong.

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Trogdor796

Discussion Starter · #7 · Mar 22, 2015

I've never actually tried running my system as my fronts set to large, lower crossover, and life +main. I did some research online before hooking everything up and most people said to set them to small.

So...those saying they have them set to large, do you keep that setting for everything or just music listening? I know when I initially ran audyssey it set them to large with a lower crossover. I just don't listen to music a lot but was curious if there was a certain standard settings that were generally used. Seems like it's personal preference though.

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fatbottom

· #8 · Mar 22, 2015

I would set Klipsch RF-62iito around small 50hz-80hz. For movies. Although I have doubts those speakers reach down to 35hz.

For music, if you set to pure direct it bypasses all DSP and sets mains to full-range, subwoofer not active. Or use a mode where it disables room EQ but uses bass management.

Music doesn't have that much low bass so floorstanders reproducing entire range will be fine. For movies the demands are greater so use bass management.

There is no need to use speaker level from your amp to the sub. Your AVR does bass management, or if you use pure direct you don't want the sub to receive any signal.

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bgtighe23

· #9 · Mar 22, 2015

commsysman said:
It is stupid to use tower speakers that have good bass and set the crossover to 80 Hz!!!

This means everything below 80 Hz is only reproduced by the sub. This wastes the bass capability of your main speakers.

You want your main speakers to operate full-range and only operate the SUB-woofer BELOW the lower frequency limit of the main speakers. That is why it is called a SUB-woofer...lol.

The best way to do this is connect the subwoofer speaker-level inputs to the actual terminals of the front main speakers (use 18 gauge or 20 gauge speaker wire; the current is very small), and then set the rolloff control of the subwoofer to 40 Hz or so. Experiment with moving the frequency setting up and down slightly.

(there will be no cable connection from the receiver to the subwoofer)

Set it up this way and you will be amazed at how much better the system sounds.

LowTech1 said:
Trogdor,I think you pretty much have it. Commysman,I agree and disagree. It depends on the speakers and how you feel at the time. There are some songs and recordings where I feel I can turn the sub off on my Esl's. But on other recordings,I need my sub.. Bass can be very subjective. I honestly believe it has to do with listening during the day or at night when its quiet. What kind of room you have. I'm not a Klipsch fan at all,but some guys love them. If his speakers have 8" woofers,he probably doesn't need a sub for music unless he wants it to hit really hard. Then you NEED a sub..

He has an X1100...It would be difficult for the receiver to really drive those speakers at full range with high volumes.

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commsysman

· #10 · Mar 24, 2015 (Edited)

bgtighe23 said:
He has an X1100...It would be difficult for the receiver to really drive those speakers at full range with high volumes.

That would be just as much of an issue whether the sub was set up one way or the other.

His main speakers have an exceptionally high sensitivity (97 db/w/m), and 40 watts per channel is all you need for those.

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Alan P

· #11 · Mar 24, 2015

commsysman said:
It is stupid to use tower speakers that have good bass and set the crossover to 80 Hz!!!

This means everything below 80 Hz is only reproduced by the sub. This wastes the bass capability of your main speakers.

You want your main speakers to operate full-range and only operate the SUB-woofer BELOW the lower frequency limit of the main speakers. That is why it is called a SUB-woofer...lol.

The best way to do this is connect the subwoofer speaker-level inputs to the actual terminals of the front main speakers (use 18 gauge or 20 gauge speaker wire; the current is very small), and then set the rolloff control of the subwoofer to 40 Hz or so. Experiment with moving the frequency setting up and down slightly.

(there will be no cable connection from the receiver to the subwoofer)

Set it up this way and you will be amazed at how much better the system sounds.

How is this better than using the crossover in the AVR?? Makes zero sense to me........

I've never actually tried running my system as my fronts set to large, lower crossover, and life +main.

LFE+Main (aka Double Bass) sends the same signal (below the crossover you set for the main speakers) to both the sub and the main speakers. As more bass frequency sources in any room can be beneficial, LFE+Main can be a good thing....it can also be a very bad thing, i.e. causing cancelations in the bass frequencies. I never recommend anyone use LFE+Main without the ability to measure their response, if you don't have the ability you should leave the mains set to "small".

Have you tried Dolby PLII Music? It's a surround mode that will matrix 2 channel sources to all 5 (or 7) speakers. I enjoy it on some recordings, but most of the time I listen to 2 channel music in 2.1 stereo.

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bgtighe23

· #12 · Mar 24, 2015

commsysman said:
That would be just as much of an issue whether the sub was set up one way or the other.

His main speakers have an exceptionally high sensitivity (97 db/w/m), and 40 watts per channel is all you need for those.

1. Klipsch sensitivity ratings have been proven to be advertised a little too high by a couple dB.

2. That also probably only includes the tweeter and very minimally the drivers.

I still suggest an 80hz crossover and LFE setting. Not LFE + MAIN.

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