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Tracking a $20M Install: Finalizing Design

By Mark Sipe
In the latest installment of tracking a 28,000-square-foot home installation, the home systems are starting to jell and the integrator list has been narrowed.

CE Pro is documenting the ups and downs of this ambitious $20 million, 28,000-square-foot home installation.


Mark Sipe has been tasked with designing and managing the installation of the electronics. Here's his next running commentary on the project.



The meeting about finalizing the design went for three hours, covering many things from high to low voltage.


The client, who comes from a commercial background, is putting his foot on the gas pedal. And if we aren't careful, he'll run us over in his hurry to complete the project.




The electrician, Darryl Gregory of Canyon Creek Electric, has been invaluable in keeping us ahead of the concrete pours, while I have been researching and creating our design. We haven't made a final choice yet, and we won't until we spend a little more time looking at the systems from dealers we are considering. With so many companies showing interest in the project, we haven't been able to respond to them all yet.


I was looking at Netstreams as a possible distributed AV system while keeping the Crestron DM in my back pocket, knowing it would do what I wanted. DM seemed to be the refinement of current technology, and I was looking for the next big thing without putting my project onto a beta site list. SpeakerCraft's Nirv, which from all the talk would do what I needed, isn't out. So that will have to wait for another time and another project.


Researching other systems like networking led me to Kevin Luther of BlackWire Designs, who builds wireless network packages that you can buy ready to go using Luxul Wireless ProWAV technology that will greatly improve our coverage in a 28,000-square-foot home with concrete walls and a post tensioned concrete slab on the upper floor.

Systems Start to Jell

After talking with him and continuing my research, the systems started to make more sense and jell a little bit more. The team is starting to come together and should take a lot off my electrician's shoulders once an integrator has been selected.

Click here to continue.
 

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Mark, I can tell you that just reading the network install tells me that they are way out of their league. Why in the world would you use a Luxul to extend the range of the network signal ? The proper way to design this system for wireless coverage would be to use a wireless lan controller (think Cisco, bluewave, 3com, extreme/summit). It manages multiple wireless access points seamlessly and allows voip/network clients to be seamlessly handed off from access point to access point. It's not as easy to just drop multiple separate access points on the same ESSID and you think things work transparently (they dont - voice calls get dropped, etc).


For a house that size, a single access point isn't going to do it with drywall, concrete, etc (and worse, what if they want outside coverage).


So, just from that, your network guys are way overwhelmed. They should be looking at a Cisco wireless lan controller with cisco access points to do what they are doing. Localize voice wireless lan on its own separate vlan so you can give it proper QoS over media/network traffic. . .


I've done a 12k sq ft house and it takes 3 to 4 access points seamlessly meshed to handle all the sq footages without holes.


For matrix, the DM works great and on that size project, the cost of it won't be a factor. You might run out of outputs at 16 and might need to mux more than one together. Outputs get chewed up when you have a "sports bar" with 4 panels, etc. IP media delivery isn't ready for prime time yet. I would run multimode fiber EVERYWHERE along with cat6. No need to skimp on wire. We ran 6 fiber and wish we ran 12. Run 4 cat 6's everywhere and maybe 8+ for serious media connections. You absolutely do /not/ want to rely on wireless delivery if you can help it.


For commercial phones, give a serious look at the commercial ip phones. Cisco, avaya, etc. They will definitely want wireless, and if your wireless network can handle QoS, then you can guarantee wireless phone over your wireless network. However, you will also have to have enterprise level switches that can carry QoS all the way through form wireless to wireline to the phone switch. Enterprise switches that do this cost a few thousand to 10k each. I've got about 15K tied up in just a couple switches on the project.


Anyhow, thats a start. On a house that large, can't believe they are messing around with the consumer stuff.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthem /forum/post/18302488


Mark, I can tell you that just reading the network install tells me that they are way out of their league.

Great post Anthem. They key point being the network is the solution, not a bunch of slapped together AV. They need to bring in a team of seasoned Cisco installers if they want any guarantee of internal QOS.


Also agreed, I would never rely exclusively on wireless for uninterrupted streams.


The other thing is security. This is not a simple rack getting dropped in, see ya later. They'll need ongoing support via remote access. How do you guarantee privacy if your entire digital infrastructure is running through an addressable backplane? Especially one which is accessible 24/7 by an outside vendor?


Sounds like the field needs some AVIP integration specialists.
 

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acksnay - exactly. Most AV professional think they know networking, but only a bit more than consumer level. AV guys think their 1k switches are "enterprise" qualify when they are far from it. They can't handle QoS end to end (including wireless), many can't handle vlans, and they can't handle some of the very intricate security that enterprise needs have. Now, this is fine when you don't need it, but on a house that big and complex - you better consider it.


Here is a partial build list for my previous project and I'll put some of my notes on the thinking behind why we went with those particular choices.


Switches - 2x Cisco 3560E-48PS - 48 port GigE switches with POE. POE is in there for the Cisco IP phones, Axis/IQEye security cameras and some Crestron panels. Switches have several vlans that isolate/protect traffic among the different networks. Crestron runs on its own vlan, wireless runs on its own, all voice traffic runs on their own vlan and the basic non-tagged native data segment as well. They run with full QoS from endpoint to endpoint (including passing QoS data between the switches, the router/switch and the wireless lan controller for wireless QoS). We can guarantee that voice traffic is always prioritized and isn't impacted at all even while the ports are slammed at gigabit speeds. Switches run with spanning tree and bdpuguard on them - this prevent some idiot from putting something on the network that has the same IP as something that is critical and already on there. Basically the cisco switch shuts the port down immediately if something doesn't act as it should. (You don't want someone putting something on the network with the same IP as the router, or Crestron Pac2, or whatever).


Router - Cisco 3825 ISR router. Firewalls, NAT, etc way beyond most lower class stuff. VPN capability for outside tunneling in. Voice up to 168 phones/extensions, voice mail, even ACD if you need it. Full vlan routing/switching with the switches. This particular installation has about 30 phones/extensions throughout the home. It has 4 separate digital phones (routed for various people and purposes), and voicemail boxes. Think the teenagers having their own phone line routed to them. makes the panasonic soho business phones look - well amateur. These are the systems that remote offices up to 50-100 people use but can scale to thousands of uses.


Cisco WLCN - Wireless Lan Controller Module. Able to seamless integrate Cisco Access Points (LWAPP) as one seamless campus. No breaks when handing off traffic from one access point to the other. Will actually protect the network and turn access points off if it detects rogue access points (usually you want to turn this feature off, but in an enterprise, its used quite frequently as you don't want an employee bringing in a cheap unprotected access point to hook up at his desk). If you don't turn if off, you run the risk of shutting down your neighbors (or anyone closeby) access points. Didn't know this could be done "legally" but its there. This WLCM piece is critical for voice over wireless IP as well. I don't think people realize that you can't just put four access points on the same ESSID and expect things to work seamlessly (it doesnnt). The WLCM paired with the LWAPP also enable you to set up several wireless networks (running on different 802.11a/b/g/n channels) so that you can have separate WLAN's for voice as well as PC clients.


Cisco RPS 2300 Redundant DC power supply. Besides the switches and routers own AC power supply, this supplies redundant DC power to the switches/routers so that if any fail - they are picked up immediately from the RPS. Instead of "dual power supplies" in the router/switches, you have external dual power supplies that feed DC voltage straight to the switches/routers separately. The dual power supplies on the RPS are then fed to separate UPS units (which are in turn on diesel generators with ATS) in case any one of them fail. Each RPS 2300 can provide redundant power to handle up to 6 routers/switches simultaneously.




I would also highly recommend perhaps putting the network/automation gear on balanced power or off of an isolation transformer. Everyone thinks a UPS/surge can be stopped, but this only covers half the equation. A floating neutral can't be stopped by a UPS/surge supressor. Either you hang things off balanced power (and make sure you use UPS that can handle balanced power), or you use an isolation transformer to protect yourself against floating neutrals.



So, this is the network in a nutshell. All the other gear - media servers, crestron gear and everything else is connected via the switches. There is no worry about any traffic as its all controlled. Some people advocate the Home automation to be on separate gear from the rest, and this is not a bad choice, but on builds this big - its better to go enterprise and handle it that way than to try and hodge podge two separate sub-standard gear together.


The Crestron digital matrix has one input hooked into the switch (for access), but its downstream room solution boxes connected via multimode 50/125 fiber (eventhough IP) are handled within the DM. They are switched internally within the DM eventhough it is network based. You will have to tell the Cisco switch that the DM is actually a switch as it broadcasts that it has 32 downstream IP's. Otherwise the cisco switch will shut it down as violating security. Be careful with that one as I'm not sure why the DM tries to act as its own router/switch downstream and broadcast this on the outbound side when nothing crosses that demarc barrier.


Anyhow, that gives you an idea of how something of this scale should be done correctly. it isn't trying to "upsize" inferior gear but downsizing really big iron. The network is going to be the most critical in terms of making sure everything works correctly. Some people will argue that you don't need enterprise backbone switches in there as there isn't enough bandwidth - well depends on the installation. When you have 24 megapixel IP camera's running around, just the security camera traffic being recorded is in the hundreds of megabits all day/night.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthem /forum/post/18302488


Mark, I can tell you that just reading the network install tells me that they are way out of their league. Why in the world would you use a Luxul to extend the range of the network signal ? The proper way to design this system for wireless coverage would be to use a wireless lan controller (think Cisco, bluewave, 3com, extreme/summit). It manages multiple wireless access points seamlessly and allows voip/network clients to be seamlessly handed off from access point to access point. It's not as easy to just drop multiple separate access points on the same ESSID and you think things work transparently (they dont - voice calls get dropped, etc).


For a house that size, a single access point isn't going to do it with drywall, concrete, etc (and worse, what if they want outside coverage).


So, just from that, your network guys are way overwhelmed. They should be looking at a Cisco wireless lan controller with cisco access points to do what they are doing. Localize voice wireless lan on its own separate vlan so you can give it proper QoS over media/network traffic. . .


I've done a 12k sq ft house and it takes 3 to 4 access points seamlessly meshed to handle all the sq footages without holes.


For matrix, the DM works great and on that size project, the cost of it won't be a factor. You might run out of outputs at 16 and might need to mux more than one together. Outputs get chewed up when you have a "sports bar" with 4 panels, etc. IP media delivery isn't ready for prime time yet. I would run multimode fiber EVERYWHERE along with cat6. No need to skimp on wire. We ran 6 fiber and wish we ran 12. Run 4 cat 6's everywhere and maybe 8+ for serious media connections. You absolutely do /not/ want to rely on wireless delivery if you can help it.


For commercial phones, give a serious look at the commercial ip phones. Cisco, avaya, etc. They will definitely want wireless, and if your wireless network can handle QoS, then you can guarantee wireless phone over your wireless network. However, you will also have to have enterprise level switches that can carry QoS all the way through form wireless to wireline to the phone switch. Enterprise switches that do this cost a few thousand to 10k each. I've got about 15K tied up in just a couple switches on the project.


Anyhow, thats a start. On a house that large, can't believe they are messing around with the consumer stuff.

While everyone has an opinion dont you think its sort of ignorant to make assumptions on what is being used in the project? He said LUXUL and that was it. Did he say 1 luxul kit? NO. Who says there isnt a wireless lan controller involved? Who said what products are being used where? NO ONE DID so it might be best to wait until you see what the system actually is before commenting. You also forget there is a system budget. Every single person who throws their opinion out there ends up building an electronics system that goes WAY over budget....


I cant go into details of whats going into the project but rest assure it will be a fully managed network with QOS and MORE THAN ONE ACCESS POINT.


PS. Since when was Luxul consumer stuff?


Also this isnt the first 12k sq ft home ive done or the first network package ive sold to other dealers.....
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWire Design /forum/post/18324653


While everyone has an opinion dont you think its sort of ignorant to make assumptions on what is being used in the project? He said LUXUL and that was it. Did he say 1 luxul kit? NO. Who says there isnt a wireless lan controller involved? Who said what products are being used where? NO ONE DID so it might be best to wait until you see what the system actually is before commenting. You also forget there is a system budget. Every single person who throws their opinion out there ends up building an electronics system that goes WAY over budget....


I cant go into details of whats going into the project but rest assure it will be a fully managed network with QOS and MORE THAN ONE ACCESS POINT.


PS. Since when was Luxul consumer stuff?


Also this isnt the first 12k sq ft home ive done or the first network package ive sold to other dealers.....

OH SNAP!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWire Design /forum/post/18324653


While everyone has an opinion dont you think its sort of ignorant to make assumptions on what is being used in the project? He said LUXUL and that was it. Did he say 1 luxul kit? NO. Who says there isnt a wireless lan controller involved? Who said what products are being used where? NO ONE DID so it might be best to wait until you see what the system actually is before commenting. You also forget there is a system budget. Every single person who throws their opinion out there ends up building an electronics system that goes WAY over budget....


I cant go into details of whats going into the project but rest assure it will be a fully managed network with QOS and MORE THAN ONE ACCESS POINT.


PS. Since when was Luxul consumer stuff?


Also this isnt the first 12k sq ft home ive done or the first network package ive sold to other dealers.....


Hmm, where should I start. Well, if you're going to write about a build - then come right out and give details about the build. Especially if the intended/target audience is "CE Pros". . . A lack of details is going to lead to lack of credibility.


Ok, fair enough - you could put multiple Luxul antenna's. Last I checked they still don't make access points (though that might have changed). You already know my thoughts on lan controllers - if you have more than one and you need seamless transition, you damn well better have one in their. That being said, MOST (and this is a generic term here) CE/AV installers who swear by Luxul, use it band-aid a project to avoid lan controllers (since they don't understand it, can't configure/engineer it, and can't sell it into the project). Luxul's are used for a band-air around way too many projects to try and extend the range beyond what should be entertained.


That being said - there are some caveats here (and you can disagree or we can have a nice debate about it here as this is a discussion forum).


-Luxul antenna's for covering areas are good.

-Wireless lan controllers are better

-You can mix Luxul antenna's on wireless access points to great affect. Works particularly well in open space. Does /NOT/ work as well in tight internal spaces (read dense matter like walls/drywall/floors). I have great success using it for meshed networks in large 300K warehouse type of settings as well as near outdoors. I don't like the way they work inside in an office environment (and by extension large homes).

-Wireless access points work better with more access points. Luxul's are fine as long as they stay omnidirectional, but amplified gain antenna's have steep drop off's in inside environments.

-I don't like amplified antenna's in homes. I certainly don't want to be living anywhere near amplified antenna's. Even with the FCC mandated 30+6db output (which is freqently violated), I wouldn't want the max being broadcast. Therefore I prefer more access points over more powerful accesspoints. Also gives you better triangulation capability if you need that.

-Amplified Antenna's (And LUxul makes a good one) are very good for campus wide projects covering acres which we have done.

-Luxul's are still borderline illegal (as are any 3rd party antenna's). Granted, no one follows that legal interpretation and the FCC doesn't really enforce, but I do believe the FCC law that says the antenna with the licensed product is only legal when used together.



Anyhow, like I said earlier, if you are just giving sparse information in a technical environment and then saying you're increasing the range with a Luxul antenna, then yes, you're going to have technical people chewing into it. I would say - provide some details and some background and then the information truly becomes worthwhile. I think I've given more background and information in my posts than your the original poster's 2 pager. .. .
 

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Until everything is finalized and I have the approval to release detailed information about the project the mentioning of luxul is all that can be done.


I have experimented with Luxul products and access points with a WLAN controller and have had amazing results. Also Luxul has many different antennas and when you use the right ones with the amps and proper settings etc you can have some amazing results.


WLAN Controllers are amazing as are security appliances etc.. All of which are things that this project will have.


This is a cool project and as any tech guy like your self says everyone wants to see the final design then pick it apart



BTW there is an FCC Certified luxul kit which includes an access point in the FCC Certification
 

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I think its great that a manufacturer (or mfg rep) has come on to contribute to an intellectual discussion. I'm always open to knowing/learning/researching new product and I'm sure people here would love to know about the Luxul gain/antenna products. I'm fairly familiar with them, but others I'm sure would love to know more.


Just to clarify - your "cisco way" is how different than the other enterprise solution ? It looks like the "cisco way" you've defined below is just 3 independent access points. But Cisco would generally never tell you to do it that way either - they would tell you to do it the "enterprise way" as you've described under item 1. I don't consider option 2 to be that great - its just using possibly similar/better gear as option 3 with no real benefit. Option 1 on the other hand is by far the best solution - and yes as you've mentioned with the increasing/decreasing power to repair the mesh, seamless handoffs, rogue AP detection, etc is all what is included in the Cisco WAN controllers (as well as excellent other WLC by Blue and Aruba). Yes, they are a bit pricy, but its the proper way to engineer a wireless network. You obviously know it as well as it is the /best/ option by FAR and as you and I both agree - works /flawlessly/.


Option 2 - we'll skip the discussion. It's just using more expensive product than option 1. The only part I'll disagree is that its the "cisco way", as Cisco's WLC has self healing mesh, rogue ap detections, Qos, and everything in between.


Option 3 - Like I said - you make an excellent product. It's designed to do a certain thing well and I'll tip my hat off to you in that yours (others do as well) works well in certain environments (especially warehouses, etc). You notice that I also stated that it is less effective in dense environments like offices (and by nature houses). It can still be combined with option 1 as well, but you may lose some of the benefits that WLC's give you with more access points. And don't forget, if you plan on doubling up the AP's in this solution you essentially are doubling the cost as the more robust enterprise AP's on WLC's can handle 6 ESS networks on the same AP without degradation. That being said, I haven't tried using Luxul gear on all the diversity antenna's to handle multiple networks on these AP's and that could be possible as well.


And then the conclusion. Yes, for some money is a factor and frequently the biggest factor. The Luxul product (as well as others) fills a niche that in my mind is an excellent place to be. Money plays a big factor for many of these builds that to make things simpler (removing a WLC by expanding range) that it make make/break a particular project.


BUT, lets get back to THIS particular project. The topic under consideration is "Tracking a 20M install". Are you telling me that 25K in network gear to formulate a "flawless" and best method network is a budgetary no go ? I'm not talking the 25K project where you need to skimp and spec out Linksys/netgear switches/access points, or even the 100k install. We're talking a 20M build and unless you're saying the land is sitting in Pebble Beach and is worth 18M and the house budget is 2M. 20M on a house construction budget affords you the ability to do things the /right/ way for that particular application and thats where my opinions stem from.


So. .. . my opinion is this - if you have a 20M budget, some of that is definitely going to home automation, AV, etc. In my mind it would be prudent to get the basic nuts/bolts of the network done so that it is not the issue. If we all agree that the WLC method is the best method and its going to run about 10-20K tied into another 10-20k for wireline infrastructure, why wouldn't that be the correct way to skin this cat ? Why try and extend something to work around the problem rather than tackle it head on with the solutions that are out there that work ?


Oh, you do have an out. if you are saying that you plan on integrating your Luxul antenna's into Access points tied into a WLC, that can handle full mesh networking/recovery/healing, and all the points we mentioned in option 1 - then yes, that could certainly be another way to skin a cat. However, your last post dictates otherwise and that you're justifying your product based on an alternative to option 1 rather than a supplement to option 1. Also, my experience with amplification/gain adjustment products in conjuection with WLC is not that great in indoor/tight environments.


I welcome your response as intellectual discussions such as this is better for everyone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Luxul Wireless /forum/post/18331630


Hi Anthem,


In the spirit of providing the sort of intellectual discussion you solicited in your earlier posts, let's consider the costs associated with the various network strategies that have been considered here. You may correct me if you feel I've miscategorized/oversimplified the disparate approaches.


1. Enterprise solution (office building)

Conditions: high density envinronment with many client devices. Network must support file transfer, web browsing, VOIP data, roaming, and VLAN. Average high-bandwith, high-density environment.

Best solution: Controller capable of virtual-cell management, Vlan partitioning, QOS, and roaming “hand off” capability. Many many access points are deployed throughout the area, blanketing the area needing coverage. Multiple aP’s mean that no AP ever gets overload and resources are not unduly strained. Rouge AP detection can suppress threats in the environment , while AP power output adjustments can be made dynamically in order to “tune” the network for best performance—for instance, if they are dense enough, an AP that goes down can have its ambient brothers pump up their output power levels in an order to “fill” that space and “self heal” the mesh. This is an extremely sophisticated system, which works flawlessly.

Cost: $10,000 or more.


2. 7500sq. ft Home Install—Traditional Cisco archicecture.

Only 3 AP's are required to cover a 7500 sq. foot home. But at nearly 1k per AP, you’re racking up cost quite quickly. Add that to the cost of the controller 2K at least, and we’ve gotten ourselves $5k deep pretty quickly. However, the AP’s do their managed thing, and seamlessly allow the touchpanels to roam around the home. You can build out separate Wlans for VOIP phones, but you have to get AP’s with dual radios (more expensive) if you want to be sure you have an interference-free Voip network. QOS is possible as well—all the benefits of the cisco controller in an environment that will never have more than say, 10 client devices actively using Wi-Fi at the time.

Total Cost: $5-7K, or more!



3. 7500 sq. foot home, using Luxul.


For the “home user ” Wi-Fi, we use a single capable standalone access point, like a Cisco 1243. Use a Luxul booster and antenna, and cover the entire house. Mount the unit in the attic, power it via POE, all nice up there sitting in its enclosure. (Pro-WAV 100)

With one WAP, covering the whole house, and the backyard, there are no touchpanel roaming issues!


Total cost for this Wi-Fi network: $500


If you want to add a second network for Wi-Fi touchpanels and voip phones, then you duplicate the aforementioned setup, and run the WAP on a different channel. Voila.


2-separate network architecture, now we route everthing back though a great switch, router, and you’re done!

Total Cost $1k.



I think that there are many ways to tackle a job. It's important to remain open-minded to new technologies. Also consider that there are many homeowners who have a lower-end system, and don't have the money to spring for an expensive Crestron System. We've been a Control4 partner for some time and have had great success with their dealer base. Not to say that they are lower-quality than Crestron, they just have a wider array of products that make them available to a much larger demographic.


Best Regards,


Luxul Wireless
 

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Blackwire - thanks for the response. Obviously we're not tracking at this point but going to get a report afterward. Thats fine as well, though believe it or not, for people like me I would prefer the initial and giving feedback rather than the later and critiquing it. After its done, there isn't anything that can be changed/done to make it better anyhow.


I have had mixed results with Luxul and other amplified gain antenna's in dense indoor environments. They work great in larger/open settings (particularly warehouses). They work ok in office environments where you have large cavities above (like big spaces in drop ceilings). They don't work as well when a lot of tighter wall structures are in play. (Drywall and RF are not friendly to each other) - particularly say double drywall. . . .


Good to know Luxul has an FCC certified bundle. But that just means that that is the only product that is FCC certified. All the other antenna's, etc are not FCC certified. Well, lets rephrase that, the AP is FCC ok, the Luxl antenna is FCC ok, but the combination isn't. Like I said earlier - really minor point as no one adheres to this particular nuance. Don't know why I threw it in there, but obviously you do know about it and it puts an interesting spin on things.


As I mentioned in the earlier post, for a 20M project, I think it should be done right. Which means a WLC should be involved if its using more than one access point. And with that kind of budget, you should look at end to end Qos capabiltiy wireline or wireless. "managed" network doesn't mean squat(and just having a few SNMP mibs makes something "managed"), and hopefully you know exactly what I mean. best of luck and I hope to continue this conversation throughout the build if you guys care to share.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWire Design /forum/post/18331635


Until everything is finalized and I have the approval to release detailed information about the project the mentioning of luxul is all that can be done.


I have experimented with Luxul products and access points with a WLAN controller and have had amazing results. Also Luxul has many different antennas and when you use the right ones with the amps and proper settings etc you can have some amazing results.


WLAN Controllers are amazing as are security appliances etc.. All of which are things that this project will have.


This is a cool project and as any tech guy like your self says everyone wants to see the final design then pick it apart



BTW there is an FCC Certified luxul kit which includes an access point in the FCC Certification
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luxul Wireless /forum/post/18334898


3. 7500 sq. foot home, using Luxul.


For the “home user ” Wi-Fi, we use a single capable standalone access point, like a Cisco 1243. Use a Luxul booster and antenna, and cover the entire house. Mount the unit in the attic, power it via POE, all nice up there sitting in its enclosure. (Pro-WAV 100)

With one WAP, covering the whole house, and the backyard, there are no touchpanel roaming issues!


Total cost for this Wi-Fi network: $500

Since this was edited and not part of the original, but still worth pointing out. Not sure where you are getting pricing for a Cisco 1243 and Luxul Pro-Wav100. But if I recall correctly, the Luxul units are 500 to 700 for the pro-wav type of units. The Cisco 1240AG series are currently about $500-$600 as well. That would put this combination at around $1200 per access point. Still comparably cheaper, but nowhere near a $500 solution unless you're paying for integrators to take the Luxul Pro-wav unit when they pair it with a Cisco. . . .




Quote:
Originally Posted by Luxul Wireless /forum/post/18334898


We would most definitely look to turn the self-healing off--as the Luxul Shock-WAV Signal Boosters use Digital Gain Control, they boos the signal to 30dBm regardless of what they are fed in terms of input power. So it would probably degrade system performance somewhat if the AP's were being told by the controller to constantly be turning their output power up and down.


We would look to set the AP's to a fixed power level, something like 80mW. Then, in order to ensure good network performance, we choose Booster Type (Luxul offers a .5W and a 1W booster) and Antenna Gain level and beam pattern, pursuant to the environment around us and what we need covered.


Astute use of freeware programs like InSSIDer can be more helpful than you'd think in actually doing this.


Anthem--I agree with you that in a 20M job, 25k for networking seems like a drop in the bucket, however, the budget for the AV&Automation was fixed at a certain goal level--we at Luxul wanted to bring a lower-cost option to the table that would still get the job done quite nicely.


Best,


LW


Yes, but that would turn one of the best features that the WLC's have. It might be a tradeoff worth considering if the network wasn't fully overlapping though. The self-healing is only relevant if your network can be boosted to overlap the dead AP/Cell that would occur to self-heal. But yes, I can see how that would degrade system performance.


And yes, at least we agree that on a 20m job, 25k is a drop in the bucket.
 
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