[rms8]

.

We were watching a movie this weekend and at the end of the credits was a THX trailer. I told my son to turn it up *A BIT* .....

I have the original Buttkickers (the huge ones) mounted on a flexible/flimsy platform and mini-LFEs mounted on the back of each chair. These are all powered by the 4 channel Sanway FP10000Q.

I have not spent a lot of time yet trying to dial in the transducers (the HT has only been on line for a few months). Big mistake (and leaving the interpretation of "a bit" to my son).

The platform felt like it was going to launch us into the ceiling....and then -SNAP- ! NO shakes. I walked over to the rack and got a whiff of that familiar burnt semiconductor odor.

Below are pics of the aftermath. A quick email to Johnson at Sanway had me some new boards in the mail and on their way to me in less than 48hrs. He is absolutely hands down the best in taking care of Sanway customers!!!!!!

 

[highfigh]

.

We were watching a movie this weekend and at the end of the credits was a THX trailer. I told my son to turn it up *A BIT* .....

I have the original Buttkickers (the huge ones) mounted on a flexible/flimsy platform and mini-LFEs mounted on the back of each chair. These are all powered by the 4 channel Sanway FP10000Q.

I have not spent a lot of time yet trying to dial in the transducers (the HT has only been on line for a few months). Big mistake (and leaving the interpretation of "a bit" to my son).

The platform felt like it was going to launch us into the ceiling....and then -SNAP- ! NO shakes. I walked over to the rack and got a whiff of that familiar burnt semiconductor odor.

Below are pics of the aftermath. A quick email to Johnson at Sanway had me some new boards in the mail and on their way to me in less than 48hrs. He is absolutely hands down the best in taking care of Sanway customers!!!!!!

How many Buttkicker are you using, how are they wired and how is the amp configured- stereo or bridged? If bridged, you need to make sure the load is correct for that mode- the impedance seen by the amp is effectively half of what it sees in stereo mode.

 

[derrickdj1]

Did you set a HPF? Most transducers with the higher wattage ratings can't really handle ulf's that well based on physic.

 

[rms8]

Did you set a LPF? Most transducers with the higher wattage ratings can't really handle ulf's that well based on physic.

I've had the original Buttkickers when they first hit the market almost 15yrs ago. Those I have NEVER high-passed. They are litterally indestructible. I modded mine with a small rubber bumper inside the case at each end so the piston does not CLANK if it travels too far.

I also have a pair of the newer LFE's for the rear platform. IMHO the LFE's do not perform as well as the originals, and I am using both.

The Mini-LFE's are highpassed via a MiniDSP at 30Hz.


None of the shakers gave any sign of duress. No clanking or bottoming out noises. I just have a very hi load on the amp, but my son pushed the volume too high. Since nothing gave any indication that a melt down was eminent, I didn't rush to the remote.....

All's good though.

I wired a 240VAC/20A circuit for each Sanway and my Sherbourn. The breaker for the 10000Q also tripped, but apparently not soon enough. Once I get teh 10000 back together, I'll spend all the time I need to dial the shakers in.

 

[rms8]

How many Buttkicker are you using, how are they wired and how is the amp configured- stereo or bridged? If bridged, you need to make sure the load is correct for that mode- the impedance seen by the amp is effectively half of what it sees in stereo mode.

One channel of the 10000Q has a pair of LFE's (on the rear platform and the gain is set to off when no one is back there) wired in parallel for a 2ohm load. Another channel has the original Buttkickers wired in parallel for another 2ohm load and the Mini-LFEs are wired in a series-parallel configuration to provide a 2ohm load to the amp.

The Sanway is a commercial power amp and is completely stable into a 2ohm load (2500W/chnl @ 2ohm). My son just go carried away with the volume. I use the more powerful FP-14000 to power eight 18" infinite baffle subwoofers (series/parallel).

I used to use 4 Buttkicker BKA-1000's to power each set of transducers, but they simply took too much space in the rack, so I consolidated them all down to a single 2U 4chnl FP-10000Q. All has been good with me at the helm of the volume.

 

[highfigh]

One channel of the 10000Q has a pair of LFE's (on the rear platform and the gain is set to off when no one is back there) wired in parallel for a 2ohm load. Another channel has the original Buttkickers wired in parallel for another 2ohm load and the Mini-LFEs are wired in a series-parallel configuration to provide a 2ohm load to the amp.

The Sanway is a commercial power amp and is completely stable into a 2ohm load (2500W/chnl @ 2ohm). My son just go carried away with the volume. I use the more powerful FP-14000 to power eight 18" infinite baffle subwoofers (series/parallel).

I used to use 4 Buttkicker BKA-1000's to power each set of transducers, but they simply took too much space in the rack, so I consolidated them all down to a single 2U 4chnl FP-10000Q. All has been good with me at the helm of the volume.

You might think about setting all of the level controls so it's impossible for this to happen. Even with low audio levels in some program material, I would have to think you have enough power.

 

[derrickdj1]

Transducer amps are the hardest working amps in the system and should be good quality and well ventilated. This even more a factor if EQ has been used on the transducers. It is a good practice to use a hpf at 20 Hz. Ever high wattage transducer can benefit from a lpf and you will still get a great movie experience. Transducers may have a high RMS rating but, that is not the problem, it is excursion with ULF. This is the same problem that a small speaker has to deal with. Your transducer is not working on an air spring like the speaker. This increases the chance of damage.

 

[Archaea]

Transducer amps are the hardest working amps in the system and should be good quality and well ventilated. This even more a factor if EQ has been used on the transducers. It is a good practice to use a hpf at 20 Hz. Ever high wattage transducer can benefit from a lpf and you will still get a great movie experience. Transducers may have a high RMS rating but, that is not the problem, it is excursion with ULF. This is the same problem that a small speaker has to deal with. Your transducer is not working on an air spring like the speaker. This increases the chance of damage.

I'm surprised he damaged the amp, unless the amp is truly not 2 ohm stable...






Color coded response to quoted post.


He didn't damage the transducer, and it seems he threw plenty of power at it. I was also told by Buttkicker support that their products are pretty much indestructible because of the way they are designed. They don't wear out, and they very rarely break.
How do you know? They aren't in my system.

 

[Archaea]

@rms8,


How did you mod the buttkickers to keep them from bottoming out. I've not read a post on that. Can it be done with the miniLFEs that I have or is that only the original ones that allow for that mod? The mini's have pleny of shake, more than enough --- but they do bottom out easily below 30hz if you don't have a HPF in place. I have a gentle slope HPF starting at 33hz on my four. The four can EASILY be driven off a single channel of an iNuke DSP 3000.

 

[rms8]

Your transducer is not working on an air spring like the speaker. This increases the chance of damage.

I think you missed this part :

...I modded mine with a small rubber bumper inside the case at each end so the piston does not CLANK if it travels too far.

Pretty much indestructible.

 

[rms8]

@rms8 ,


How did you mod the buttkickers to keep them from bottoming out. I've not read a post on that. Can it be done with the miniLFEs that I have or is that only the original ones that allow for that mod? The mini's have pleny of shake, more than enough --- but they do bottom out easily below 30hz if you don't have a HPF in place. I have a gentle slope HPF starting at 33hz on my four. The four can EASILY be driven off a single channel of an iNuke DSP 3000.

I had the LFE's apart to swap a side of the shell (one of the diecast feet broke on mine). The piston in the LFE has a cork cover on each end of it, to help in bottoming out. You would be able to get a shallow rubber foot on each side to help even more, but it would need to be short. There is actually a lot of room in the original Buttkickers. The rubber bumpers I placed in those are probably almost a 1/2" thick.

It was actually recommended to me by Marvin Clamm way back in the early 2000's. He was (still is I think) their senior engineer. He also showed me how to re-lube them since they periodically need this too. A simple application of bearing grease is all it takes for those.

I don't think the LFE's can be or even require any sort of lube. If I recall, they have a dry graphite type lubricant.

I went with the Sanway due to the original Buttkickers requiring so much power to keep that 3lb slug under control. That's the main reason Guitammer went with a smaller flagship transducer. People weren't buying the bigger Buttkicker due to it's size and power requirements.

 

[highfigh]

I had the LFE's apart to swap a side of the shell (one of the diecast feet broke on mine). The piston in the LFE has a cork cover on each end of it, to help in bottoming out. You would be able to get a shallow rubber foot on each side to help even more, but it would need to be short. There is actually a lot of room in the original Buttkickers. The rubber bumpers I placed in those are probably almost a 1/2" thick.

It was actually recommended to me by Marvin Clamm way back in the early 2000's. He was (still is I think) their senior engineer. He also showed me how to re-lube them since they periodically need this too. A simple application of bearing grease is all it takes for those.

I don't think the LFE's can be or even require any sort of lube. If I recall, they have a dry graphite type lubricant.

I went with the Sanway due to the original Buttkickers requiring so much power to keep that 3lb slug under control. That's the main reason Guitammer went with a smaller flagship transducer. People weren't buying the bigger Buttkicker due to it's size and power requirements.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that the ButtKickers are sending back-EMF to the amp and that can cause all kinds of problems.

 

[mhutchins]

.
.
I went with the Sanway due to the original Buttkickers requiring so much power to keep that 3lb slug under control. That's the main reason Guitammer went with a smaller flagship transducer. People weren't buying the bigger Buttkicker due to it's size and power requirements.

Did you do any of the fan mods to the Sanway?

Just curious,
Mike

 

[rms8]

Did you do any of the fan mods to the Sanway?

Just curious,
Mike

A special one:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...ternate-fan-mod-any-amplifier-rack-mount.html


But heat had nothing to do with it. The amp was running around 105F just before the volume incident.....

 

[rms8]

I wouldn't be surprised to find that the ButtKickers are sending back-EMF to the amp and that can cause all kinds of problems.

Buttkickers are operating fine. Have them currently hooked up to the previous set of BKA-1000's. This incident had nothing to do with BK's nor temps and had everything to do with the amp being clipped to the next Galaxy courtesy of my son's interpretation of crank it "a bit"...

 

[TCARCIO]

rms8, How do you have the filters set on your BKA-1000. I have that setup with the larger transducers and it has been working fine for 10 years now.

 

[rms8]

rms8, How do you have the filters set on your BKA-1000. I have that setup with the larger transducers and it has been working fine for 10 years now.

I wasn't using the BKA-1000's.

 

[TCARCIO]

I wasn't using the BKA-1000's.

Yes I got that but what I was asking is that if you are useing the BK now how are the settings on the amp set. I am just curious to see if they are set like mine are.

 

[rms8]

Yes I got that but what I was asking is that if you are useing the BK now how are the settings on the amp set. I am just curious to see if they are set like mine are.

The -1000 for the mini-LFE's has all filters off. It's getting 80hz and below from AVR and protected from 30Hz and below by MiniDSP.
The -1000's for Original BK'ers and LFE's have high pass off and lowpass set to ~50/60hZ.

 

[TCARCIO]

The -1000 for the mini-LFE's has all filters off. It's getting 80hz and below from AVR and protected from 30Hz and below by MiniDSP.
The -1000's for Original BK'ers and LFE's have high pass off and lowpass set to ~50/60hZ.

Great, thanks. Funny I have mine set with the HPF on and LPF off and set to 50hz. Maybe I will try your settings and see how they work.