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I replied, but somehow the post got deleted. Here's a more succinct round 2:


The TV is a 65" flat panel and as such I won't be able to put a vertical speaker in the middle. What's my best choice for a horizontal center channel?

I don't have the option of in-wall speakers for surrounds. To the left is a 16' slider to the back, behind is another slider and to the right is the other half of the great room.

Rough sizes:
family room is 19x17
kitchen is 19x13
total room is 19x30

Ceilings are vaulted, 8' at the walls to 14' peaks.




First of all, I can't seem to get your attachment to show up. Secondly, if you like to turn up the volume, as it were, sometimes, I would go with Silver LCR's instead.

Are you enclosing a flat panel TV or are you building out something for a projection screen?

If it's the latter, I would choose acoustically transparent material and use a vertical LCR for the center speaker.

If you can help it, DO NOT use ceiling speakers as surrounds, only as true overheads in an immersive Dolby Atmos system. Place in-walls at just above seated head height for main surrounds (side and rear).

Again, not knowing the size of your room or being able to see a layout diagram is only allowing me to speculate.

Personally, I'm not a fan of built-in cabinetry as it really limits your options if you ever decide to upgrade any piece of your AV system... and that bug will bite sooner or later.
Dan,

I was able to see Jason's plan and if I could get the ceiling height I will be able calculate the correct speaker size. He may be able to get Silver Monitors to work. I always to try to spec Monitors when the client is interested in a high mix of music listening. Depending on the total cubic measurement, an option would be to change the crossover to 100 Hz. That might be enough for louder listening levels and still give him those smooth Scan-Speak audiophile drivers.
 

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You do have a very big room to fill and the sloped ceiling makes it even more difficult. So I would consider multiple subs and changing the crossover to 100 Hz if you want to use the Silver Monitors. If you want the Triad room size guide, email me and I will email it to you so you can see how the speaker compliment affects the volume.

As my Triad Speaker Matching Chart indicates, you can go with InWall Silver/4 Surrounds. I would put them in the ceiling behind your couch. Because of the nature of your ceiling and the fact that you won't be going with an Atmos system, I'm going to suggest a dipole version of the Surrounds to keep the image a bit more diffuse.
 

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I'm a bit new to nice audio stuff, but I've spent a lot of time reading in the last few weeks.
You are in luck. Stepping up to even entry level TRIAD will be like trading in a 10 year old Honda Civic for a brand new BMW.

Questions:
Are Silver Monitors ok for LCR?
OpenRound or SealedRound speakers for 1 story house?
Small subs that will mount in a cabinet?
Get Silver LCR. Yes, a purist will want a 5 series BMW versus a 3 series. But the Silver LCR will do better in your space. And the 3 series is still a great BMW.

Silver Round is the minimal choice. I'd consider Dawn's advice very strongly here. You'll be happier if you step up to what she recommends.

Same with subs. The more the better in a room of that size -- in your case, more about increasing SPL than the usual reason (positioning for even response).
 

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Grill Dimensions

On the Triad web site, for the InWall Silver/4 Surround, it says the frameless grill dimensions are 14-15/16 x 14-15/16. Anybody know what the dimensions for the narrow & wide grills are? Thanks.
 

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You do have a very big room to fill and the sloped ceiling makes it even more difficult. So I would consider multiple subs and changing the crossover to 100 Hz if you want to use the Silver Monitors. If you want the Triad room size guide, email me and I will email it to you so you can see how the speaker compliment affects the volume.

As my Triad Speaker Matching Chart indicates, you can go with InWall Silver/4 Surrounds. I would put them in the ceiling behind your couch. Because of the nature of your ceiling and the fact that you won't be going with an Atmos system, I'm going to suggest a dipole version of the Surrounds to keep the image a bit more diffuse.


You are in luck. Stepping up to even entry level TRIAD will be like trading in a 10 year old Honda Civic for a brand new BMW.


Get Silver LCR. Yes, a purist will want a 5 series BMW versus a 3 series. But the Silver LCR will do better in your space. And the 3 series is still a great BMW.

Silver Round is the minimal choice. I'd consider Dawn's advice very strongly here. You'll be happier if you step up to what she recommends.

Same with subs. The more the better in a room of that size -- in your case, more about increasing SPL than the usual reason (positioning for even response).

I can be convinced to go with Silver LCRs if y'all think that's a better fit.

My center needs to be mounted horizontally. Can I use an InRoom Silver Center if it's going inside of a cabinet? Or does the InRoom really have to be outside of a cabinet?

As to surrounds - I'm not sure I'll be able to get the wife to sign off on those Surrounds. Might have to go with round ceiling ones. If I have to get rounds, is there a difference between the open/sealed? It's a 1 story house so there's no worry about bleeding above.

Pretty sure I'll be maxed out at 2 subs in the cabinet. How do subs in a cabinet work? Is it better to have a cloth door and have them fire into the room or have them fire down? If they fire down do I have to vent them?

Thanks for all the help!
 

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I wouldn't use an InRoom speaker inside a cabinet. You'll want to use an InWall speaker -- even if you have to mount it horizontally. Triad will custom make an InWall Center Channel version of whatever speaker you want. It will cost extra. Also, if there's a lot of room behind the speaker in the cabinet, you should buy acoustic batting and stuff it into the space behind the speaker.

The Silver LCR will give you more output, but I still think that the Silver Monitor could be doable as well. You will just need to change the crossover to 100 Hz and not expect reference-level volume levels.

I'm not a fan of using Rounds for surround channels in a high-quality system due to their small dispersion footprint. But if that's all you can do, then that's that. As far as sealed vs. open, the open Rounds actually sound better (more bass) than the sealed variety.

Fire the subs out the front with an acoustic cloth door if you can. There are several companies that sell acoustically transparent grill cloth in different colors.
 

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I can be convinced to go with Silver LCRs if y'all think that's a better fit.

My center needs to be mounted horizontally. Can I use an InRoom Silver Center if it's going inside of a cabinet? Or does the InRoom really have to be outside of a cabinet?

As to surrounds - I'm not sure I'll be able to get the wife to sign off on those Surrounds. Might have to go with round ceiling ones. If I have to get rounds, is there a difference between the open/sealed? It's a 1 story house so there's no worry about bleeding above.

Pretty sure I'll be maxed out at 2 subs in the cabinet. How do subs in a cabinet work? Is it better to have a cloth door and have them fire into the room or have them fire down? If they fire down do I have to vent them?

Thanks for all the help!
IMO, the suggestions made so far are some of the best available compromises. However, they are still compromises. In spite of Trad's advice to mount speakers inside a cabinet, that is still a huge compromise. You'll get very early reflections of the walls and the tops and bottoms of the cabinet enclosures, which will cause massive comb filtering. Find a way to mount in-room speakers into a front panel of the cabinet, using the front of the cabinet as an additional baffle for the speakers. This will eliminate much of the comb filtering and increase the sensitivity of the speakers. I would also use the Triad Silver Monitors if possible. They have superior sound quality to the LCR line, and with the increased sensitivity of the additional baffle space, they'll provide enough output, especially with the higher crossover to subs. I use 120 Hz for my Silver Monitors.

Having said that, higher crossovers benefit greatly from distributed subwoofers. The major downside of higher crossovers is the ability to "localize" the subs, such that you can hear male voices and other sounds coming from the subs instead of the speakers. With both subs up front, close together, this problem will be exaggerated. I would try to put one sub up front and one sub in the rear of the listening space. This will not only reduce subwoofer localization, it will also help smooth out the frequency response and make it more consistent over a wider listening area. Then, if you run a room correction program like Audyssey or Dirac, etc., you can equalize a wider space and get consistent result for more listeners.

In-ceiling speakers are a compromise for surround speaker placement. If there is any way you can place the surrounds on walls, preferably at or slightly above ear height, and at 90 to 120 degrees from the front of the room, you'll have a much more immersive surround sound experience. If you can only do 2 surrounds that way, it would still better than in-ceiling placements. Additionally, you could then use the in-ceiling speaker placements to add Atmos/DTS:X to your system, improving the immersiveness even more.

Good luck. :)

Craig
 
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IMO, the suggestions made so far are some of the best available compromises. However, they are still compromises. In spite of Trad's advice to mount speakers inside a cabinet, that is still a huge compromise. You'll get very early reflections of the walls and the tops and bottoms of the cabinet enclosures, which will cause massive comb filtering. Find a way to mount in-room speakers into a front panel of the cabinet, using the front of the cabinet as an additional baffle for the speakers. This will eliminate much of the comb filtering and increase the sensitivity of the speakers. I would also use the Triad Silver Monitors if possible. They have superior sound quality to the LCR line, and with the increased sensitivity of the additional baffle space, they'll provide enough output, especially with the higher crossover to subs. I use 120 Hz for my Silver Monitors.

Having said that, higher crossovers benefit greatly from distributed subwoofers. The major downside of higher crossovers is the ability to "localize" the subs, such that you can hear male voices and other sounds coming from the subs instead of the speakers. With both subs up front, close together, this problem will be exaggerated. I would try to put one sub up front and one sub in the rear of the listening space. This will not only reduce subwoofer localization, it will also help smooth out the frequency response and make it more consistent over a wider listening area. Then, if you run a room correction program like Audyssey or Dirac, etc., you can equalize a wider space and get consistent result for more listeners.

In-ceiling speakers are a compromise for surround speaker placement. If there is any way you can place the surrounds on walls, preferably at or slightly above ear height, and at 90 to 120 degrees from the front of the room, you'll have a much more immersive surround sound experience. If you can only do 2 surrounds that way, it would still better than in-ceiling placements. Additionally, you could then use the in-ceiling speaker placements to add Atmos/DTS:X to your system, improving the immersiveness even more.

Good luck. :)

Craig
This system is definitely full of compromises: the surrounding walls are either glass sliders or non-existent. I'll do what I can to get the best sound, but in the end I'm not a hardcore audiophile so I'll be (hopefully) happy with the results.

@craig john What do you mean by mounting in-room speakers in the front of a cabinet? The cabinet will be custom, so I've got flexibility to do what I want, provided I cover them up w/ acoustic fabric.
What I don't have is the option to put a sub in the rear - there's literally no where for it to go. Ditto to putting speakers in the walls.

@Dawn Gordongordon, I didn't realize Triad could custom make speakers, so an InWall center sounds like a plan. How much room is a lot of room? I've got control over the cabinet so I can do whatever will sound best.


For reference, here's a pic of the room. The media center is going to go where the TV is now. Ceiling speakers near the rear set of lights.
We had a contractor working on things in this morning so things are a little bit out of place (that tree doesn't really stay there).
 

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That's a beautiful room Jason. We recently installed a Triad system for a client in a similar space and it sounds great! I think the IW Silver Surrounds will work well.

Have the cabinet built with no more than 2" of space around the speakers. That should leave enough room for wire management.
 

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This system is definitely full of compromises: the surrounding walls are either glass sliders or non-existent. I'll do what I can to get the best sound, but in the end I'm not a hardcore audiophile so I'll be (hopefully) happy with the results.

@craig john What do you mean by mounting in-room speakers in the front of a cabinet? The cabinet will be custom, so I've got flexibility to do what I want, provided I cover them up w/ acoustic fabric.
What I don't have is the option to put a sub in the rear - there's literally no where for it to go. Ditto to putting speakers in the walls.
I meant to use in-room Silver Monitors mounted flush with the front of the cabinet and add a baffle around the speakers that fills the space, flush with the front of the speakers and the side, top and bottom walls of the cabinet. This will provide a larger baffle for the speakers, simulating the baffle walls used for the Platinum speakers:




It won't be that big of course, because the Silver Monitors are much smaller than the Platinums, but it will have the same effect for the speaker. You can read more about baffle walls here:
http://www.pmiltd.com/published articles/040601 Baffled Again.pdf


You can also do this around the CC if you use a Silver Monitor and turn it on it's side. It's not an ideal arrangement, because it's an MTM, which is usually better when mounted vertically than horizontally, but you would at least be using an identical speaker. You should try to mount the CC with the tweeter as close to the heights of the L & R tweeters. If that's not possible, I suggest you mount it above the TV instead of below it.


For the subs, you can improve their performance by adding the Sub Frames to close the space around them:

https://www.triadspeakers.com/wp-content/uploads/InCabinet-Sub-Adaptor-Dev4.pdf


Looking at the picture, you could definitely mount surrounds on the wall behind the seating. This would place them at a little over the 120 degree angle, but it would be FAR better than in-ceiling surrounds. In addition, it opens up the possibility for Atmos speakers in your ceiling, which you have the ideal setup for with the sloped ceiling.



Craig
 

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Hi Folks, I am trying to find out if the Triad Gold Monitor can be special-ordered as an on-wall center channel? (e.g., adjustments to crossover, etc., as needed to make it an effective horizontal center channel?) Also, if it can be special-ordered, does someone have a feel for what it will cost to do this?

I will be building a media room within the next few months and I am considering Gold Monitors for the front three speakers. My initial plan was to use all in-wall speakers for the front, but now I am looking considering an on-wall version for the center channel that I can add a slight upward tilt to it (I expect to mount the center channel below a non-AT screen).

Thanks!
 

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I meant to use in-room Silver Monitors mounted flush with the front of the cabinet and add a baffle around the speakers that fills the space, flush with the front of the speakers and the side, top and bottom walls of the cabinet. This will provide a larger baffle for the speakers, simulating the baffle walls used for the Platinum speakers
Craig - curious why, if going to the trouble of building into a baffle wall with the front of the baffle flush with the speaker, would you use InRoom versions vs. the InWall which is designed for that flush baffle application? The InRoom version is going to have baffle step compensation built into the response, plus the added depth of the speaker will require the baffle to stick out farther. My gut would be the InWall would be the correct choice for this application.
 

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Craig - curious why, if going to the trouble of building into a baffle wall with the front of the baffle flush with the speaker, would you use InRoom versions vs. the InWall which is designed for that flush baffle application? The InRoom version is going to have baffle step compensation built into the response, plus the added depth of the speaker will require the baffle to stick out farther. My gut would be the InWall would be the correct choice for this application.
Good point. I agree completely.
 
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Hi Folks, I am trying to find out if the Triad Gold Monitor can be special-ordered as an on-wall center channel? (e.g., adjustments to crossover, etc., as needed to make it an effective horizontal center channel?) Also, if it can be special-ordered, does someone have a feel for what it will cost to do this?

I will be building a media room within the next few months and I am considering Gold Monitors for the front three speakers. My initial plan was to use all in-wall speakers for the front, but now I am looking considering an on-wall version for the center channel that I can add a slight upward tilt to it (I expect to mount the center channel below a non-AT screen).

Thanks!
Hi AudioFan,

I'm fairly sure this can be done. Do you have a local Triad dealer who can help you with this?
 

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Hi AudioFan,

I'm fairly sure this can be done. Do you have a local Triad dealer who can help you with this?
Hi Dawn...thanks for the reply. I have a Control4 dealer in my area who has the ability to access Triad, although he does not appear to have any experience with them based on his response to about any question I have about the speakers. Hence why I decided to ask folks here for help.
 

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Understood. Sorry you are having trouble. Unfortunately, most of the newer Triad/Control4 dealers don't have a lot of Triad experience like us "old timers." LOL

BTW I have Gold Monitors and I love them. I personally think they are are best all-around speaker Triad makes.
 

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Understood. Sorry you are having trouble. Unfortunately, most of the newer Triad/Control4 dealers don't have a lot of Triad experience like us "old timers." LOL

BTW I have Gold Monitors and I love them. I personally think they are are best all-around speaker Triad makes.
Yes, I've heard that a few years ago in DC from someone that had in-wall Gold LCRs. The in-wall Gold LCRs sounded very nice. In fact, I liked them a lot. However, that individual said he felt that the Gold Monitors sounded better. Because of that experience I decided to explore the potential of Gold Monitors for my upcoming media room, particularly since my wife and I prefer high SQ but at a lower SPL (~60-70 dBs).

Thanks.
 

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Understood. Sorry you are having trouble. Unfortunately, most of the newer Triad/Control4 dealers don't have a lot of Triad experience like us "old timers." LOL

BTW I have Gold Monitors and I love them. I personally think they are are best all-around speaker Triad makes.
Yes, I've heard that a few years ago in DC from someone that had in-wall Gold LCRs. The in-wall Gold LCRs sounded very nice. In fact, I liked them a lot. However, that individual said he felt that the Gold Monitors sounded better. Because of that experience I decided to explore the potential of Gold Monitors for my upcoming media room, particularly since my wife and I prefer high SQ but at a lower SPL (~60-70 dBs).

Thanks.
While I chose to go with the Gold LCR's for my fronts (as an aside - I think they sound great for music using audiophile recordings), as others have said if nth degree music fidelity is more important to you than clean, bombastic volume and slam for movies then I would add my support for the Gold Monitors.

I had an issue finding a solid AV integrator in my area and so instead went with Dawn as my dealer since she's been a staple of this thread and a great contributor to these discussions.

I had one small issue of a speaker that needed replacing due to a bit of shipping damage and she took care of me quickly and professionally as a go between with Triad in getting a new one made and out the door immediately. She also was more than willing to assist me with my ultimate purchase.

I can't recommend her enough if you're still looking for a reliable source. Two thumbs up. 😄
 

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Yes, I've heard that a few years ago in DC from someone that had in-wall Gold LCRs. The in-wall Gold LCRs sounded very nice. In fact, I liked them a lot. However, that individual said he felt that the Gold Monitors sounded better. Because of that experience I decided to explore the potential of Gold Monitors for my upcoming media room, particularly since my wife and I prefer high SQ but at a lower SPL (~60-70 dBs).

Thanks.
If you're not going for higher SPL then you should consider the Silver Monitors or one of the MiniMonitors, which will save you a decent chunk of $$.

The Silver Monitors are the same as the Gold Monitors but with 5.25" woofers instead of 6.25" woofers, so it's basically a slightly smaller version. You give up some power handling / maximum output but it sounds like you're not cranking it anyway. The MiniMonitors are the same in terms of woofer size (5.25" for Silver and 6.25" for Gold) but use one woofer instead of dual, so you give up a decent amount of sensitivity -- again not a huge issue if you don't play loud.

Just seems to make more sense for a "quality over quantity" approach. The maxed out Gold Monitor seems like overkill if you're not listening loud.
 
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