[nathan_h]

I've used the 'higher crossover trick' a few times and it can really help out a system that is struggling in terms of power and speaker output, without investing a dime, since so many folks are running subs way below capacity and many of the subs in the $500 to 1k range (which I would assume is where budget systems end up, and a budget system is one where the speakers may not be quite up to the task) have good response to 150hz or higher....

But yes, buying a higher output speaker would be the preferred method, if it is an option. But it is amazing what using a 100 or 120hz crossover can do in terms of making a modest system sound far more solid that it might with 80hz crossovers. It is not without some compromises, of course, but on balance it can help when the alternative to get more powerful speakers is not an option.

That said, I agree that having more headroom in the speakers (and the amplification to make use of it) does offer lots of great opportunities to get that crossover region working smoothly, without worry about whether the best crossover is 60hz or 120hz or whatever. Were I to design my room over again, I would have gone with Silver LCR instead of Bronze LCR just to have that flexibility.

 

[mkiv808]

I recently demo’d a Triad Designed dedicated room at my local Triad dealer. The room was outfitted with silver in-walls and included 4 in-ceiling subs in each corner of the room.

Long story short, I was very impressed with the set up and will probably be designing my room around the Bronze line or silver fronts with bronze surrounds, etc.

My question is about sub pairing with these lines. I’d like to start with dual subs and work from there. Below are the options I’ve been kicking around and keep coming back to.

Dual SVS PB3000
Dual Rythmik FV15HP
Dual Triad Bronze in-walls
Dual GSG 18” Martycubes

I know it’s not a perfect tool, but the SVS subwoofer matching tool recommends matching bronze or silver LCR speakers with the sb2000 pro, the pb2000 pro or the sb3000 pro.

This may be a dumb question, but do I have to worry about “drowning out” the bronze or silver LCR’s with something as powerful as the Martycubes or the larger SVS and Rythmik’s listed above?

The GSG Martycubes seem to be the best “bang for the buck” when going dual.

Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sub matching to individual speakers isn’t really a thing.

My reco would be Rythmik. Incredible musicality, accuracy, and detail for a sub. I just upgraded from SVS and was immediately impressed by the difference in clarity, and at the same time how deep it goes.

 

[mkiv808]

Found a set of used Gold Monitors.

I’m very interested but they’re in walls. I would use in room on stands.

Any problems with this, or should they perform similarly to the in room model?

It’s behind a screen so appearance does not matter.

 

[nathan_h]

They are designed to make use of the baffle and frequency reenforcment of being in a wall.

You could probably EQ them to be accurate when not mounted in a wall.

 

[audioguy]

This post needs to be deleted!

 

[audioguy]

That definitely works but in the reverse direction. My Platinum LCRs are In-Room but my center In-Room is mounted "in-wall". Get lots of "free" lower end extension/re-enforcement and a bit of PEQ fixes it right up. I'm sure most room EQ systems will do the same. The difference, however, and an important one, is that the in-wall version expects to "see" the wall and while in-room it won't. So BOOST at the lower end will be required - and it could be substantial. May want to do some very careful checking prior to making that decision.

 

[mkiv808]

That definitely works but in the reverse direction. My Platinum LCRs are In-Room but my center In-Room is mounted "in-wall". Get lots of "free" lower end extension/re-enforcement and a bit of PEQ fixes it right up. I'm sure most room EQ systems will do the same. The difference, however, and an important one, is that the in-wall version expects to "see" the wall and while in-room it won't. So BOOST at the lower end will be required - and it could be substantial. May want to do some very careful checking prior to making that decision.

Is that due to the shallower cabinet?

 

[Dawn Gordon]

No the cabinet air volume is consistent across all versions of the speaker -- InRoom, InWall, InCeiling etc.

 

[nathan_h]

Is that due to the shallower cabinet?

3 pages back:

They are identical performing speakers with identical drivers and all have sealed enclosures, however, the different versions have tweaked bass response in anticipation of their installation method. If you mount a sealed enclosure in the wall, it goes from "full space" to "half space" and gets a free bass boost from the infinite baffle effect, which prevents the low frequency energy from radiating backwards (the wall acts as a barrier so all the sound must project forward).

This diagram below (from Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction") shows the measured effect. If Triad didn't adjust their speakers for the installation, they wouldn't sound the same as the InWall version would have bloated bass (or the InRoom version would be bass anemic). So the bottom line is you CAN use an InWall speaker outside of the wall (I've done it myself) however it will have reduced bass output. Ideally it would at least be flush up against the boundary (wall) so it gets some boundary gain and isn't completely anemic, if you take the InWall speaker and put it out in free space it will sound anemic in the low end.

View attachment 3067012

View attachment 3067013

 

[mkiv808]

Thank you, very helpful.

I’m getting my system professionally calibrated in the Spring by ChadB, so I suppose some EQ in Audyssey Pro could rectify this?

Would the other (more complicated) solution be perhaps swapping the crossover for the in room part?

 

[nathan_h]

Even regular Audyssey may help.

I cannot speak to whether changing the crossover would help but knowing Triad, if they are willing or able to sell you one (a big if) it will probably cost more than is worthwhile....for example, they used to sell a crossover update for some of their surround speakers, but it was pricey and they have stopped doing it, I think.

 

[Dawn Gordon]

Yes they previously did Dipole to Bipole conversions, but no more. I believe they do sell the crossover to dealers so that they can perform the conversion, but I don't think most dealers would want to do it.

 

[rpm900]

With one row of seats, it's a little less complicated as to the "order" of decision making. You can select the speakers and their locations first and work your screen around the speakers. You do need to keep in mind that the speakers will work best with the tweeters at ear level. This will be the best vertical on-axis response for most all speakers. I'm not aware of any Triad LCR speakers that don't follow this guideline. The screen will generally work best with the eyes at about 1/3 screen height, although 1/4 to 1/4 is a range that is acceptable to most people. So keep these two guidelines in mind as you make the decisions.

In terms of Aspect Ratio, Dawn's advice is spot on. Decide which type of viewing is your highest priority and make your AR decision based on that. If the highest priority of use will be TV viewing in 16:9 ratio, then chose a screen in that aspect ratio. If movie viewing is highest priority, (not necessarily the "most" viewing, but the "most important" viewing), then go with a 2.40 "scope" AR. (Personally, I went with a scope screen and added side masking for 16:9, but I don't think SI offers that option.)

In terms of ALR screens, I think they are compromised in several ways. First and most important is the off-axis diminution of gain. If you're sitting directly in front of the middle of the screen, you'll get a "hotpot" in the middle and darkening of the edges. The wider the screen, bigger this issue become. Please note the viewing angle and gain chart:

The Slate 0.8 material has lost almost 50% of it's gain at 25 degrees off axis. THX and SMPTE recommend a "field of view" of 45 to 50 degrees. (A 50 degree field of view equates to 25 degrees off axis on either side of the middle.) So, if the viewer is sitting in the middle, they will see full gain in the middle and about half gain at the screen edges. If the viewer is sitting off-axis of the middle of the screen, they'll see something less than full gain directly in front of them and well less than 1/2 gain at the opposite edge. Here is a screen shot of this problem:

The top graphic is deceiving as it suggests the viewing cone is up to 30 degrees. Look at the yellow line graph at the bottom and you can see that the gain is .78 at 0, degrees (on axis), and .38 at 25 degrees, (off axis). This is also displayed in the Viewing Cone chart on the SI website: Slate AT | Screen Innovations

The Slate 1.2 is not as bad as the 0.8, but it still exhibits this problem to (what I would find to be) an unacceptable degree.

One way to combat this problem is to mount your projector at a longer throw ratio, but I don't think you have that much leeway in your room.

The other issue with ALR screen is that they can have some sparkle or visible texture. The closer the viewing distance, the more noticeable these become.

Woven AT screen don't exhibit these problems, but then they don't work as well in brighter ambient light environments, so it's all a trade-off. Dawn's system is the best of both worlds, with a flat panel display behind a retractable AT screen. The only downside to that is the mounting of the CC. It's harder to do an identical vertical CC mounted behind the screen with the tweeter at ear level if the flat panel is also behind the screen. @Dawn Gordon, how do you deal with that concern?

For the subs, you could consider selling the JL's. The good news is that JL subs are highly sought after and retain their re-sale value pretty well. Then replace them with higher output, deeper extension subs, probably for less money.

Craig

I finally received the sectional and got it into the room, so I'm now that I have the exact MLP, I'm ready to start laying out the remaining parts of the room. I was happy to see that the sectional is farther than i expected from the rear wall. The back is 3' from the rear wall with an ear distance of 4'-6.5' from the rear wall at the MLP. So, I believe the rear wall problem is minimalized.

I still think a 5.X.(2/4) will be the best layout for the room.I need to buy in-wall bipole surrounds, but my studs are 12" O.C. on the one exterior wall, so the triad options will require load bearing stud adjustments. So, I need to look into other options for the surrounds, or just bite the bullet and move the stud. I may have to go on wall. I don't know. Then if I go with 2 channel atmos, I'll install the Triad Silver/6 In Ceiling Sats for Front atmos, if I go with 4 channel I'll get RSL 34e's.

I'd appreciate some input on the layout I've provided below. Primarily, I'm trying to determine the best L/R placement. This layout sets the L/R speakers at 36" from the center to side wall, so they can't be installed any wider. Problem is that the seating distance gives a 19 degree field (38 degrees total). Of course, moving the seating closer would alleviate this, but it can't be moved forward any farther, see the sectional below. I'd like opinions regarding the surrounds, and whether the position I've chosen will work. I have not provided any details regarding the subwoofers and thier placement. I will get to that as I progress. Thanks and Happy New Year to All!

 

[luv2fly3]

Finally got my order placed today for 3 Gold LCRs! So excited to finally bring the refined sound of Triads to my HT room. Now the patient waiting begins, which I'm not very good at. ;-)

As I'm now thinking about possibly upgrading my surround channels at some point, I have a few questions.

1. I know speakers within the Gold line would be the best match for the surround speakers. But I may go Silver just due to cost. I'm wondering about the "Omni" speakers which I see listed used in many places. I have read back through this thread to try and gain some insight on the Omni line but can't really find whether they'd work well for surrounds with LCRs up front?

2. Can in wall speakers be put in columns and work well as surrounds, even if column is not tightly sealed around them? Or would I have to form a full baffle for them within the column as if they are in an actual wall? My columns have openings that are much taller than the in walls would be. I'd go with the satellite design, and might if I go with silver satellites. But the gold satellites are too deep for my columns. So I'm just curious how I might use the columns with those designs?

Appreciate all the insight here on this thread! Can't wait to get my LCRs now?

 

[ivallt]

Ok everyone, I currently own an M&K S150THX 5.1 system. Moving to a different space, but want to add 4 Atmos speakers. I will only have one row of seats in my 14' wide room, and a counter height bar behind my seating row.

Considering Paradigm and Triad. What would you guys see as good in-ceiling options for the Triad's fore and aft of the seating positions.

From the website i see inceiling Bronze/8 LCR, as well as inceiling Bronze/8 SAT, inceiling Rotating Silver/9 SAT. and a ton of round options. Hard to figure out what is best.

 

[audioguy]

Chose to not post and can't delete this. This is the silliest non-feature I can imagine. Once you start to type any kind of response, if you then decide to choose not to, you have an "empty" post.

 

[Dawn Gordon]

I finally received the sectional and got it into the room, so I'm now that I have the exact MLP, I'm ready to start laying out the remaining parts of the room. I was happy to see that the sectional is farther than i expected from the rear wall. The back is 3' from the rear wall with an ear distance of 4'-6.5' from the rear wall at the MLP. So, I believe the rear wall problem is minimalized.

I still think a 5.X.(2/4) will be the best layout for the room.I need to buy in-wall bipole surrounds, but my studs are 12" O.C. on the one exterior wall, so the triad options will require load bearing stud adjustments. So, I need to look into other options for the surrounds, or just bite the bullet and move the stud. I may have to go on wall. I don't know. Then if I go with 2 channel atmos, I'll install the Triad Silver/6 In Ceiling Sats for Front atmos, if I go with 4 channel I'll get RSL 34e's.

I'd appreciate some input on the layout I've provided below. Primarily, I'm trying to determine the best L/R placement. This layout sets the L/R speakers at 36" from the center to side wall, so they can't be installed any wider. Problem is that the seating distance gives a 19 degree field (38 degrees total). Of course, moving the seating closer would alleviate this, but it can't be moved forward any farther, see the sectional below. I'd like opinions regarding the surrounds, and whether the position I've chosen will work. I have not provided any details regarding the subwoofers and thier placement. I will get to that as I progress. Thanks and Happy New Year to All! View attachment 3075412
View attachment 3075400 View attachment 3075401 View attachment 3075402 View attachment 3075404

I know you said that you need in-wall Bipoles, but Triad does have OnWall Bipole Surrounds that are great. And don't forget that Triad will paint them to match your wall color. We install these all the time for customers, and they love them.

 

[Dawn Gordon]

Finally got my order placed today for 3 Gold LCRs! So excited to finally bring the refined sound of Triads to my HT room. Now the patient waiting begins, which I'm not very good at. ;-)

As I'm now thinking about possibly upgrading my surround channels at some point, I have a few questions.

1. I know speakers within the Gold line would be the best match for the surround speakers. But I may go Silver just due to cost. I'm wondering about the "Omni" speakers which I see listed used in many places. I have read back through this thread to try and gain some insight on the Omni line but can't really find whether they'd work well for surrounds with LCRs up front?

2. Can in wall speakers be put in columns and work well as surrounds, even if column is not tightly sealed around them? Or would I have to form a full baffle for them within the column as if they are in an actual wall? My columns have openings that are much taller than the in walls would be. I'd go with the satellite design, and might if I go with silver satellites. But the gold satellites are too deep for my columns. So I'm just curious how I might use the columns with those designs?

Appreciate all the insight here on this thread! Can't wait to get my LCRs now?

Omni's (Sats) can be used for surrounds, but I would prefer Bronze of Silver LCRs. It also will depend on how close your seating is to the room boundaries (walls) -- don't forget that if the seats are too close (<5 feet) this could be a problem. That's when we specify Bipoles for surrounds. Triad's Bipole Surrounds are wonderfully versatile. We often use them in theaters for Atmos channels when the ceiling height is 9 feet or less. Great dispersion/coverage and localization.

If your wall cavity (column) is too large for a specific InWall speaker you can stuff the inside with acoustic batting or foam around the InWall speaker and that will do the trick.

 

[Dawn Gordon]

Ok everyone, I currently own an M&K S150THX 5.1 system. Moving to a different space, but want to add 4 Atmos speakers. I will only have one row of seats in my 14' wide room, and a counter height bar behind my seating row.

Considering Paradigm and Triad. What would you guys see as good in-ceiling options for the Triad's fore and aft of the seating positions.

From the website i see inceiling Bronze/8 LCR, as well as inceiling Bronze/8 SAT, inceiling Rotating Silver/9 SAT. and a ton of round options. Hard to figure out what is best.

A few questions:

Total Room Size? (WHD)
How close is the seating to the side and back walls?
Do you have any other speakers in the ceiling?
What is the budget for your Atmos speakers?

 

[Hoosierexotics]

New to the forum, and just picked up my first Triad setup. So far I like them a lot, just waiting on my amp to come in. I picked up a used Krell 250a/3. Anyone have experience with that amp and Triad golds?